From rob at colorist.org Sat Jan 2 22:43:09 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 17:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Tig] new Arri Message-ID: <175DFC7A-0B5F-4E27-B34A-0CADF7152B44@colorist.org> There's a new Arri digital camera in prototype, does anyone have more details? Rob (not compensated by Arri) -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at cinelab.com Sat Jan 2 23:04:26 2010 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:04:26 -0500 Subject: [Tig] new Arri In-Reply-To: <175DFC7A-0B5F-4E27-B34A-0CADF7152B44@colorist.org> References: <175DFC7A-0B5F-4E27-B34A-0CADF7152B44@colorist.org> Message-ID: > There's a new Arri digital camera in prototype, does anyone have more details? I think there are 3 versions with a new sensor that has quasi HDR and low noise some models are raw out and others have SDI some have electronic viewfinder and others have optical... I think there is more info on Arri's website. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Sat Jan 2 23:19:50 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:19:50 -0500 Subject: [Tig] new Arri In-Reply-To: References: <175DFC7A-0B5F-4E27-B34A-0CADF7152B44@colorist.org> Message-ID: <8863DBB0-0D59-4B3B-98BC-357717B4E7D3@colorist.org> On Jan 2, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > I think there are 3 versions with a new sensor that has quasi HDR > and low noise some models are raw out and others have SDI some have > electronic viewfinder and others have optical... I think there is > more info on Arri's website. It's not immediately clear from the Arri website what nomenclature to use when referring to the new camera; this may be due to its being available in 3 formats. I read of the Alev III, which is designated as the "35-format CMOS sensor" that will give birth to at least 2 other groundbreaking cameras in 2010. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From bob at bluescreen.com Sun Jan 3 17:44:10 2010 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:44:10 -0800 Subject: [Tig] new Arri In-Reply-To: <175DFC7A-0B5F-4E27-B34A-0CADF7152B44@colorist.org> References: <175DFC7A-0B5F-4E27-B34A-0CADF7152B44@colorist.org> Message-ID: <0pl1k51i84i9vrub7srclqjdb6e5odfrmk@4ax.com> >There's a new Arri digital camera in prototype, does anyone have more >details? http://www.arridigital.com/teaser The current issue of "Arri News" or whatever their version of Pravda is called, has some details as well. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From ereitan at novia.net Sun Jan 3 17:46:34 2010 From: ereitan at novia.net (Ed Reitan) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 11:46:34 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D References: <3F9B4A2A-7A00-447E-851C-93D5EBF66FD0@blackmagic-design.com> Message-ID: <001001ca8c9c$b2048d30$0200a8c0@gilfillan.de.ittind.com> Well, I was very unhappy with the real-D system screening at an Omaha Marcus Theater. The image was so dim on the inititial night scenes that I could not judge the grading. Brightness remained unsatisfactory through the film. A smaller aluminized screen had been installed in front of the normally used larger screen - evidently, to get more brightness. As I was seated not far off center, directionality of the screen was not the problem. This poor screening was particularly unfortunate as Marcus had previously used the much superior XpanD for that same theater. The XpanD process much better brightness and a full size image at that same venue. Evidently, Marcus has dropped XpanD in favor of "cheap" real-D. An ASC cinematographer friend of mine, when I told him my observation said, "They are going to kill 3D again with such practice". Economics always seems to ruin the day. Ed Reitan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Chamberlain" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:57 PM Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D > > I recently watched Avatar in a real-D equipped cinema in Australia and > could not fault the grade or brightness. The seven others in our group > also said it was the best 3D film they had ever seen and even > commented on how vibrant the colors were, yet at the same time they > felt real. > > Peter Chamberlain > DaVinci Resolve Product Manager > Blackmagic Design > From hxpro at cinesite.co.uk Mon Jan 4 14:19:05 2010 From: hxpro at cinesite.co.uk (Kevin Wheatley) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:19:05 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D In-Reply-To: <001001ca8c9c$b2048d30$0200a8c0@gilfillan.de.ittind.com> References: <3F9B4A2A-7A00-447E-851C-93D5EBF66FD0@blackmagic-design.com> <001001ca8c9c$b2048d30$0200a8c0@gilfillan.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: <4B41F8D9.7080605@cinesite.co.uk> Ed Reitan wrote: > A smaller aluminized screen had been installed in front of the normally used > larger screen - evidently, to get more brightness. Real-D needs a screen which maintains the polarization state of the light, that is why it was installed, as would any projector based polarization technique. Kevin -- | Kevin Wheatley, Cinesite (Europe) Ltd | Nobody thinks this | | Senior Technology | My employer for certain | | And Network Systems Architect | Not even myself | Cinesite (Europe) Ltd. Registered Office: HemelOne, Boundary Way, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP2 7YU Registered in Cardiff No. 2820389 VAT No. 630 5446 60 From frank at opticalart.de Mon Jan 4 17:54:01 2010 From: frank at opticalart.de (Frank Hellmann) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:54:01 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D In-Reply-To: <4B41F8D9.7080605@cinesite.co.uk> References: <3F9B4A2A-7A00-447E-851C-93D5EBF66FD0@blackmagic-design.com> <001001ca8c9c$b2048d30$0200a8c0@gilfillan.de.ittind.com> <4B41F8D9.7080605@cinesite.co.uk> Message-ID: <4B422B39.7050409@opticalart.de> Kevin Wheatley schrieb: > > Ed Reitan wrote: > >> A smaller aluminized screen had been installed in front of the normally used >> larger screen - evidently, to get more brightness. >> > > Real-D needs a screen which maintains the polarization state of the > light, that is why it was installed, as would any projector based > polarization technique. > > Kevin > This is one of the biggest problems I see for a proper grading. You'll have the differences in glasses (some have a slight green tint, others don't), in projection screens (silver with hotspot in the middle, new bright white ones and also old dim white ones) and in the filters on the projector (Dolby Spectrum Filters, Polarized...). It's not the easiest thing to decide how to do the final master. At the moment we aim at the RealD Systems without hotspot correction, as they have the most screens here in Germany. We are thinking about upgrading one screening room with a Dolby 3D System as well, as we can then keep a white screen for standard 35mm film projection in there. Also for a bit of fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thsc60UTUIE Best, Frank... - Not affiliated with either company, but wouldn't mind to get any free stuff from them.. ;-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- OPTICAL ART Film & Special-Effects GmbH Waterloohain 6-8 Frank Hellmann DI Supervisor 22769 Hamburg frank at opticalart.de http://www.opticalart.de Tel: +49 40 5111051 Fax: +49 40 43169499 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg, Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 384 70 Geschäftsführer: Christian Burgdorff, Harald Lehmann ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Niederlassung Berlin Skalitzer Straße 104 10997 Berlin Niederlassung Frankfurt Hanauer Landstraße 163-171 60314 Frankfurt Niederlassung Halle Mansfelderstrasse 56 06108 Halle ----------------------------------------------------------------------- OPTICAL ART Digital & Film GmbH Graf Adolf Str. 22 Frank Hellmann DI Supervisor 40212 Düsseldorf frank at opticalart.de http://www.opticalart.de Tel: +49 211 828590 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Düsseldorf, Amtsgericht Düsseldorf HRB 38 132 Geschäftsführer: Christian Burgdorff, Harald Lehmann ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rob at colorist.org Mon Jan 4 18:14:46 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:14:46 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Floating in the Digital Experience (NYT) Message-ID: Manohla Dargis, film critic for The New York Times, wrote an engaging piece on cinema for yesterday's edition: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/movies/03dargis.html She cites Susan Sontag's 1996 essay on The Decay of Cinema: http://tinyurl.com/sontag-cinema -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From enigma at turingstudio.com Mon Jan 4 20:12:23 2010 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:12:23 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Floating in the Digital Experience (NYT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've read reams (and reams and reams) of handwringing analysis about the death of cinema, though I haven't read very much that relates that so fervently looked-for death to changes in the technology used to produce cinema. I also take issue at this line: "filling our screens with images that, more and more, have been created algorithmically rather than photographically." While in small part she is of course correct, in the only meaningful sense she is not: Avatar was created from trillions of data points captured from real human beings and real environments. That data was obviously manipulated to create the images, but should be characterized as 'capture' as opposed to 'generation'. A lot of that work was photographic capture. The world "feels real" precisely because it is based on data from the real world. Cinema is alive, well in some ways and deeply ill in others, and I think has about zero chance of disappearing as a medium without tectonic changes in related technology. The change from celluloid to silicon isn't in the same galaxy as the kind of change necessary to signal the death of cinema as we have known it. _a > Manohla Dargis, film critic for The New York Times, wrote an > engaging piece on cinema for yesterday's edition: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/movies/03dargis.html > > She cites Susan Sontag's 1996 essay on The Decay of Cinema: > > http://tinyurl.com/sontag-cinema -- alexander black turing: web applications colorflow: digital post 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / direct root at turingstudio.com http://turingstudio.com http://colorflow.it From dwainem at pacbell.net Mon Jan 4 22:37:05 2010 From: dwainem at pacbell.net (Dwaine Maggart) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:37:05 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Interesting Ebay Item - Unique 2K Film Scanner / Telecine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A1B90141B304A6E9D5C9CB6FAD56E23@dmduodell> Just saw this on Ebay. A unique and interesting 2K "Film Transfer System" that may be of interest to some on the list. Ebay item #: 320470687995 Link (maybe..): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320470687995&ssPageName=A DME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_857wt_1165 Regards, Dwaine Maggart Blackmagic Design - DaVinci Support From rob at colorist.org Mon Jan 4 22:47:38 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:47:38 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Floating in the Digital Experience (NYT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70CEAB28-BC10-4D41-8E44-81DDF2F56559@colorist.org> Hi Alex, I agree with what you said, just thought her article was really good in the sense of the telling of a story, or the art of cinema, in the larger sense. best regards Rob > Cinema is alive, well in some ways and deeply ill in others, and I > think has about zero chance of disappearing as a medium without > tectonic changes -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Mon Jan 4 23:04:06 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 18:04:06 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Interesting Ebay Item - Unique 2K Film Scanner / Telecine In-Reply-To: <3A1B90141B304A6E9D5C9CB6FAD56E23@dmduodell> References: <3A1B90141B304A6E9D5C9CB6FAD56E23@dmduodell> Message-ID: <46C3C27D-8D44-41F0-ABA0-D680A1338E3D@colorist.org> On Jan 4, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Dwaine Maggart wrote: > Just saw this on Ebay. A unique and interesting 2K "Film Transfer > System" > that may be of interest to some on the list. > > Ebay item #: 320470687995 The specs and information section is interesting, not sure if the claims on this custom system are true, but they offer a class for any potential buyer at the unit's current location. What puzzles me is why the seller of record on Ebay is also selling jetskis, cellular batteries, Mazda parts, and tickets to Madison Square Garden. Does Ebay work through brokers? (I may be one of the few people in the world who has never bought anything on Ebay). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jeffcee at shaw.ca Tue Jan 5 00:52:27 2010 From: jeffcee at shaw.ca (Jeff Christopherson) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:52:27 -0700 Subject: [Tig] 3D systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16DB647E-FCB6-481D-BAF1-E08A369015C8@shaw.ca> Hello TIG, Happy New Year to all. I've recently installed an XpanD 3D system into a grading theatre in Brussels, backed by a Barco DP90P and a non-polarized Stewart screen. While the XpanD's active shutter glasses are more transmissive overall, the system ( like polarized single-projector systems ) is hindered by the fact that you are multiplexing left and right images onto a single screen and therefore one eye is seeing darkness at least 50% of the time. Apparent brightness is reduced by >50% right off the bat. Yes they are brighter than the polarized system, but not significantly so. I saw "Up" in a Belgian cinema and was surprised to find that they were also using XpanD. Depth perception was very comfortable but it was dim and a little disappointing to someone who has experienced in- spec 2D projection systems. Nevertheless, I was able to acclimate and enjoyed the story very much. As far as I can tell, running two projectors at normal luminance with active glasses will not help apparent brightness as you will still be blanking one eye half the time. It will work in polarized systems which would at least double the apparent brightness. I have heard of some cinemas that turn up the lamp brightness for 3D but I am unaware of any standardization of this practice. I am also aware of the cinema habit of running lamps until the absolute end of life. This is perhaps the reason for the varying reviews on the TIG? We will start a 3D feature this spring with the Barco at nominal DCI luminance, as we expect this to be the practice in cinema. We are aware that there will be further attenuation of the image in theatres and for this reason we are expecting ( and advised! ) to produce a different DCP for each 3D projection system. I'm curious to know what system was used for Avatar's grading and how it was subsequently packaged for the different 3D DCI systems. Was each package touched up in a theatre using the designated 3D system? No affiliations with XpanD or RealD except as a user. Best Regards to all, Jeff Christopherson On 4-Jan-10, at 11:16 AM, tig-request at colorist.org wrote: > From: Ed Reitan > Date: January 3, 2010 10:46:34 AM MST (CA) > To: Telecine Interest Group > Subject: Re: [Tig] Avatar in 3D > > > Well, I was very unhappy with the real-D system screening at an > Omaha Marcus > Theater. > > The image was so dim on the inititial night scenes that I could not > judge > the grading. Brightness remained unsatisfactory through the film. > > A smaller aluminized screen had been installed in front of the > normally used > larger screen - evidently, to get more brightness. > As I was seated not far off center, directionality of the screen > was not the > problem. > > This poor screening was particularly unfortunate as Marcus had > previously > used the much superior XpanD for that same theater. The XpanD > process much > better brightness and a full size image at that same venue. > Evidently, > Marcus has dropped XpanD in favor of "cheap" real-D. > > An ASC cinematographer friend of mine, when I told him my > observation said, > "They are going to kill 3D again with such practice". > > Economics always seems to ruin the day. > > Ed Reitan > From ted at tedlangdell.com Tue Jan 5 02:19:31 2010 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 18:19:31 -0800 Subject: [Tig] 3D systems-Stacking projectors to increase brightness? In-Reply-To: <16DB647E-FCB6-481D-BAF1-E08A369015C8@shaw.ca> References: <16DB647E-FCB6-481D-BAF1-E08A369015C8@shaw.ca> Message-ID: On Jan 4, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Jeff Christopherson wrote: > as far as I can tell, running two projectors at normal luminance > with active glasses will not help apparent brightness as you will > still be blanking one eye half the time. It will work in polarized > systems which would at least double the apparent brightness. What about "stacking" multiple projectors to increase the brightness for both L & R? This is done in staging situations a lot. It requires registering the images from each projector, but I'd suspect that's do-able. It makes the exhibition more expensive, but if it makes for a better product, would people pay more for the quality? Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us The flashscanHD/flashtransfer Tour continues in Boston, Jan 15. Get details at flashscan8.us From rdb.engineering at free.fr Tue Jan 5 02:24:24 2010 From: rdb.engineering at free.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric_Lejeune?=) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:24:24 +0100 Subject: [Tig] 3D systems In-Reply-To: <16DB647E-FCB6-481D-BAF1-E08A369015C8@shaw.ca> References: <16DB647E-FCB6-481D-BAF1-E08A369015C8@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1facf6311001041824i504966f4q784eb0fa953e8d8b@mail.gmail.com> The one and only problem is: there is no standard. Definitely practices there and there, recommendations, but no true standard for stereo projection. When you see there is not even the setting in the stereo DCP for screen size, and so that you theoritically need to do different DCP for different screen sizes, you understand that even there it's not ready. It's possible to have correct lighting with RealD and bad with XPand, it's just a matter of settings. But which settings? Then the practices for seats in the theater, do they really lock the ones that don't give acceptable result in stereo projection? And when you do the master, to what standard are you complying? Then for the colour how do you calibrate thru glasses that potentially interact with your probe? How do you compare with other technologies? It's kinda crazy to see that movies are released considering the state of the technology, but the potential cost is (3)deception for people who aint fortunate enough to align the planets of acceptable settings in their fav theater. Cédric Lejeune cedric at workflowers.net Tel: +33 970 467 327 Fax: +33 821 463 416 www.workflowers.net Sent from Lille, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France From ted at tedlangdell.com Tue Jan 5 16:42:29 2010 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:42:29 -0800 Subject: [Tig] New England SMPTE--State of 3D Technology--Boston, Wed. Jan. 20, 2010 In-Reply-To: <16DB647E-FCB6-481D-BAF1-E08A369015C8@shaw.ca> References: <16DB647E-FCB6-481D-BAF1-E08A369015C8@shaw.ca> Message-ID: With the thread about 3D running this week, a visit to the New England SMPTE section meeting this month might be of interest. From http://www.smpte-ne.org/ At the Wednesday, January 20 meeting... The Current State of 3D Technology Ted Szypulski of ESPN will offer a presention on 3D production challenges, distribution ideas, and display technologies. Mr. Szypulski will also review 3D terminology and provide an update on SMPTE's standards work on 3D. Ted Szypulski is the Senior Director of Technology Research and Standards at ESPN. At ESPN Mr. Szyulski is responsible for the study and investigation of new and emerging technologies so that ESPN can be informed and strategically positioned to leverage those new technologies. Ted is the chair of the 10E40 Working Group on 3D Home Master for SMPTE. The SMPTE 3D Home Master standard provides requirements for the source material created and delivered to all distribution channels by content providers. Wednesday, January 20, 2010 Refreshments at 6:30 pm Presentation at 7:00 pm National Boston Studios 115 Dummer Street Brookline, MA 02446 617-734-4800 Directions: www.nationalboston.com/directions.pdf For more information, please contact Kevin Lessard at klessard at evideoexpress.com Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us The flashscanHD/flashtransfer Tour continues Jan. 15 in Boston and Northeast. Get details at flashscan8.us From wardw at filmworkers.com Tue Jan 5 22:51:58 2010 From: wardw at filmworkers.com (Ward Witt) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:51:58 -0600 Subject: [Tig] [TIG] Xrite Hubble display program for OSX available Message-ID: <949EE61B-DB9A-482C-BF5A-041C6A073443@filmworkers.com> I've created a quick and dirty monitor calibration program for the Xrite Hubble or Sencore OTC1000 that gives you RGB bars for setting up monitors that have bias and gain controls. It requires an Intel based Mac with OSX 10.5 or higher, it's open source, and available at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/hubbleview It's proven useful for me, hopefully others will find it useful as well. Regards, Ward Witt ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Wed Jan 6 09:26:44 2010 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:26:44 +0000 Subject: [Tig] 3D systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E21B02E-A8E0-46CE-87CA-EAB505E7C011@filmlight.ltd.uk> How different are the various systems? As I understand things, there are four options... (1) Conventional polarization Cheap glasses, second image if you head is not straight, needs silver screen. (2) Rotational polarization Phase difference between two polarizations. Little second image for normal head tilts. Still needs silver screen. Glasses more expensive. (3) Colour multiplexing Dolby 3D (Inifitec). Different wavelength RGBs for either eye. Does not need silver screen. Glasses currently expensive. May need special colour calibration. (4) Shutter glasses Expensive active glasses. Does not need silver screen. There seem to be two major differences... (A) Polarization The silver screen options will generally have less luminance uniformity. It should be possible to make a smarter screen that keeps polarization using something like tiny cube corner reflectors, but these are not generally available, and cinemas won't have them. (B) Flicker All of these systems can be used to serve alternate images to either eye. When driven like that, they will give a frame flicker that will become tiring for peripheral vision except for very high frame rates. Options 1-3 can use two projectors in parallel, which allows you to double the light level. Low light level is often a problem with 3D, so adding a second projector is not a silly thing to do for a cinema. On this reasoning, the colour multiplexing (Infitec) solution would seem to be best when using two projectors. However, the Infitec filters mean that only about 14% of the projector light gets to the eye, whereas the polarizer solutions manage almost 25% (half goes at the projector, half at the glasses). If shutter glasses went 100% clear, then they would manage 50% overall efficiency, but currently they use LCDs and so are stuck at 25%. If you can get enough light, then the calibration solution would seem to be to calibrate to deliver the same 16 ft-L D60 white to either eye when wearing 3D glasses. If you go much dimmer than this, then color vision gets non-linear, and the colors can look wrong. I think we ought to increase the light level in cinemas anyway: if we don't then cinemas are going to start looking dimmer than home computer displays and projectors in small rooms. From rogerito at terra.com.br Wed Jan 6 02:06:51 2010 From: rogerito at terra.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rog=E9rio_Moraes?=) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 00:06:51 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Scratches on film support/ emulsion Message-ID: <000001ca8e74$eb0b5760$c1220620$@com.br> Maybe this will be a long thread or a short lived one. Does anyone know a site, a knowledge base, white paper, article, anything that covers " everything " related on film scratches or damage? After long debates, an extenuating session, a discussion with film crew, over why, how and (what´s most important) who is responsible for a certain scratch/ damage on an camera negative, I couldn't find anything anywhere "scientific" or precise enough to base my knowledge how a certain type of scratch is made. If it's on camera, on the lab process or even telecine machine (not the last one, I can assure you). Something that covers what's the nature of the damage and how it would appear on a telecine suite? If it has a color (blue), can I be certain that it happened before the development process? If it shakes or moves, can I be certain that´s not in camera? Emulsion or support damage, do they look different? If, over the scratch, when a zoom in, I see grain, and on close inspection of the begative I can't see any distinct marks on support or emulsion, how or where it happened? Sorry, I'm a skeptic and love to base all my assumings on other than: well, there´s no answer for that Taking account on Occam's Razor Hope I was clear . Thank you all. From rob at colorist.org Wed Jan 6 15:14:13 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:14:13 -0500 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano Message-ID: Hi: My friend John Palmisano Passed away yesterday jan 5 2010, he worked for Manhattan Transfer,Postdigit,BVI and Cineworks.If you can posted in Tig i will aprecciate. Edgar Lebron reaktorpost. ----- A page on the TIG is available at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/ the link just before the white block. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From BTopazio at company3.com Wed Jan 6 16:01:25 2010 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:01:25 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Scratches on film support/ emulsion In-Reply-To: <000001ca8e74$eb0b5760$c1220620$@com.br> References: <000001ca8e74$eb0b5760$c1220620$@com.br> Message-ID: I suspect Hanlon's Razor is often appropriate in these situations. Bill Topazio -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rogério Moraes Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:07 PM To: tig at tig.colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Scratches on film support/ emulsion Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2032 subscribers in January 2009. ==== Maybe this will be a long thread or a short lived one. Does anyone know a site, a knowledge base, white paper, article, anything that covers " everything " related on film scratches or damage? After long debates, an extenuating session, a discussion with film crew, over why, how and (what´s most important) who is responsible for a certain scratch/ damage on an camera negative, I couldn't find anything anywhere "scientific" or precise enough to base my knowledge how a certain type of scratch is made. If it's on camera, on the lab process or even telecine machine (not the last one, I can assure you). Something that covers what's the nature of the damage and how it would appear on a telecine suite? If it has a color (blue), can I be certain that it happened before the development process? If it shakes or moves, can I be certain that´s not in camera? Emulsion or support damage, do they look different? If, over the scratch, when a zoom in, I see grain, and on close inspection of the begative I can't see any distinct marks on support or emulsion, how or where it happened? Sorry, I'm a skeptic and love to base all my assumings on other than: well, there´s no answer for that… Taking account on Occam's Razor… Hope I was clear…. Thank you all. _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From fmushel at earthlink.net Wed Jan 6 15:48:27 2010 From: fmushel at earthlink.net (Fred Mushel) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:48:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58D60387-FCB6-4667-964A-4EE269D6EDFC@earthlink.net> I started in the business working with John back in 1985. I had been up to see him at many of the companies he worked for in NYC throughout the years and have kept in touch with him up to now. I am extremely saddened by his passing and at such a young age. I will surely miss him. Fred Mushel Cineric, Inc. NYC On Jan 6, 2010, at 10:14 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2032 subscribers in January 2009. > ==== > > Hi: > > My friend John Palmisano Passed away yesterday jan 5 2010, he worked for > Manhattan Transfer,Postdigit,BVI and Cineworks.If you can posted in Tig i > will aprecciate. > > Edgar Lebron > reaktorpost. > > ----- > > A page on the TIG is available at > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/ the link just before the white block. > > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From simonastbury at hotmail.com Wed Jan 6 15:56:05 2010 From: simonastbury at hotmail.com (simon astbury) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:56:05 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Scratches on film support/ emulsion In-Reply-To: <000001ca8e74$eb0b5760$c1220620$@com.br> References: <000001ca8e74$eb0b5760$c1220620$@com.br> Message-ID: Hi Rogerio I don't know of one unique source. An experienced lab guy or TK guy should be able to tell you. Normally if the scratch has a colour i.e blue and you can't see it on the surface of the neg, this means the scratch is almost certainly pre-dev, the development process having made the scratch 'heal over'. If the scratch doesn't cover the whole frame it is probably a camera 'loop scratch'. Emulsion side scratches generally have a colour because the scratch has exposed the emulsion layer below it. Base side scratches will appear white on a neg transfer TK. I have heard of Kodak or Fuji inspecting neg to establish when the scratch happened in the case of an insurance claim. The above knowledge is from working as a colourist in labs for 10 years. Your best bet is a lab guy. Simon > > Maybe this will be a long thread or a short lived one. Does anyone know a > site, a knowledge base, white paper, article, anything that covers " > everything " related on film scratches or damage?. _________________________________________________________________ Got more than one Hotmail account? Save time by linking them together http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/ From dixie at westpoint.tv Wed Jan 6 16:48:04 2010 From: dixie at westpoint.tv (David Dean) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:48:04 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Passing of Tony Ayre Message-ID: <00b801ca8ef0$074cf660$1f00a8c0@WESTPTOSHPLAP> Hi All It is with deep regret I inform you of the passing of Tony Ayre, He worked in a number of companies in the UK and Condor in Amsterdam. He was best described as a "Rough Diamond" I first met at an early video duplication company called Tritel in West London. He went onto work for Image Transfer in Covent Garden, then Goldcrest in Soho, He then was a founding member of "The Adventure" Rock Band (who toured Fleetwood Mac) he returned to Colourist Duties at Condor in Amsterdam, Midnite Transfer in Soho and lately ITFC in Acton, where he joined as a Tape op and was a Shift Supervisor. His funeral is tomorrow at St Raphaels Church Yeading (weather permitting) David Dean Westpoint Television London 020 8742 3400 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.127/2603 - Release Date: 01/06/10 07:35:00 From BTopazio at company3.com Wed Jan 6 16:46:41 2010 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:46:41 -0500 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is very sad news indeed. Our paths crossed while he was at MT Miami. Bill Topazio -----Original Message----- ==== Hi: My friend John Palmisano Passed away yesterday jan 5 2010, he worked for Manhattan Transfer,Postdigit,BVI and Cineworks.If you can posted in Tig I will aprecciate. Edgar Lebron reaktorpost. ----- From jeff.olm at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 18:46:08 2010 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:46:08 -0800 Subject: [Tig] 3D systems In-Reply-To: <5E21B02E-A8E0-46CE-87CA-EAB505E7C011@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <5E21B02E-A8E0-46CE-87CA-EAB505E7C011@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <43298eae1001061046m3c44c34cq3cfc1d1a7d716eb9@mail.gmail.com> Richard, You may know this but just want to point out current reality in the US. RealD non XL systems are Z screen systems they are the majority of the 3000? plus RealD screens domestically deployed are only spec'ed at 3.5 to 5 ft .Lamberts thru the RealD glasses. There are some places running lamps way past when they should and lower than they should that are at 2-2.5 ft .Lamberts. As a producer told me about having to work a weekend, a few years back. "It is what it is." best, Jeff Olm Stereo Colorist LA, CA Richard siad "If you can get enough light, then the calibration solution would seem to be to calibrate to deliver the same 16 ft-L D60 white to either eye when wearing 3D glasses. If you go much dimmer than this, then color vision gets non-linear, and the colors can look wrong. I think we ought to increase the light level in cinemas anyway: if we don't then cinemas are going to start looking dimmer than home computer displays and projectors in small rooms." From jfmann at optimum.net Wed Jan 6 17:28:29 2010 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:28:29 -0500 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01ca8ef5$aa0cfcb0$fe26f610$@net> http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/John_Palmisano Rob, created a page for John, the link is above. I added some photos of John at IBC 2003. I am very saddened by this. Jim Mann From pdgdavin at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 6 21:33:00 2010 From: pdgdavin at ix.netcom.com (Peter Glassberg) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:33:00 -0500 Subject: [Tig] FW: John Palmisano Message-ID: What a shock to hear about John. He was a still a young man. He excelled at his coloring craft and was the nicest person. Please extend our condolences to his family. Sincerely, Peter Peter Glassberg Cell: 954-2328676 -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:14 AM To: Telecine Internet Group Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2032 subscribers in January 2009. ==== Hi: My friend John Palmisano Passed away yesterday jan 5 2010, he worked for Manhattan Transfer,Postdigit,BVI and Cineworks.If you can posted in Tig i will aprecciate. Edgar Lebron reaktorpost. ----- A page on the TIG is available at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/ the link just before the white block. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.127/2603 - Release Date: 01/06/10 02:35:00 From abrosenfeld at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 05:10:41 2010 From: abrosenfeld at gmail.com (Alan Rosenfeld) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 00:10:41 -0500 Subject: [Tig] FW: John Palmisano In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53bac0a61001062110v4e1d19edx65a6d2ce81f7a86a@mail.gmail.com> Very sad indeed. He was a good guy, tried to help my son find work a couple of summers ago in FL. We talked a bunch that summer. My condolences to his family. Alan Rosenfeld The Studio at B&H From benperez12 at msn.com Thu Jan 7 16:03:19 2010 From: benperez12 at msn.com (Ben Perez) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:03:19 +0000 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Very sad. He tried to help me find work in Fl also. Very nice gentleman which i met when i went down to Fl one year. My condolences to his family. Ben Perez From domrom at optonline.net Thu Jan 7 13:33:00 2010 From: domrom at optonline.net (DOMENIC ROM) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:33:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Tig] FW: John Palmisano Message-ID: <30918119.1265675.1262871180745.JavaMail.domrom@mstr19.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> That is very sad, I really liked John. I use to tease him all the time that he couldn't hold a job because he worked at so many places. My sympathy to his wife and children. Domenic From mark.lemmons at gmail.com Thu Jan 7 14:53:01 2010 From: mark.lemmons at gmail.com (Mark Lemmons) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:53:01 -0700 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano Message-ID: <448d924b1001070653l5dcd321v50a2194570b11e56@mail.gmail.com> In 1991 in Denver, I got my first "real" job in Film and Video at Telemation in Denver, Colorado as a tape op. Richard Buchanan ran the shop at that time, with Tim Hanafee, Bill Jordan, and John Palmisano all playing key roles. I was trying to finish a ski film "after hours" there, and John taught me all the basics. How to run the rank, clean film, the daVinci, the whole deal. I developed a deep respect for John and his craft through watching him work. I learned so much from John, as well as Bill and Tim. Richard had assembled a great crew there. I lost touch with John, but he was a key person in my early professional development, and he was more than kind to take his time, after hours, to train a pushy kid with a ski film to run all that gear. He was a great guy. Recently, in my job as CTO for a large digital footage archive, I came across some old film reels and telecine transfers with Telemation labels. There was John's handwriting on the tape. And there, on that D2 (4fsc 25 mbit - those were the days), were some beautiful images. Even now almost 20 years later. John's work made the world just that much richer and, more colorful. Ironically, these were images from a StorageTek marketing project. We now store all our film in a Sun/StorageTek SL-8500, and the images were from a marketing campaign for Iceberg, related to its predecessor, the Powderhorn. Life if funny sometimes, but not today. Today life just seems short. Mark Lemmons 303.888.4553 From Peter.White at uea.ac.uk Thu Jan 7 09:58:37 2010 From: Peter.White at uea.ac.uk (White Peter Mr (EAFA)) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:58:37 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Lipsner-Smith EXCEL 1100 Message-ID: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0FFC9A3A69@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK> Tig(gers), We're thinking about a non-immersion film cleaner, and have our eyes on an EXCEL 1100. Does anybody run one of these? Any thoughts? Cheers, Peter White Head of Technical Development East Anglian Film Archive From pmendelson at ascentmedia.com Thu Jan 7 15:56:27 2010 From: pmendelson at ascentmedia.com (Phil Mendelson) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:56:27 -0800 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I worked with John while spending time at Manhattan Transfer Miami. What a terrific and talented guy. I am deeply saddened to hear this. Phil From timbond at mac.com Thu Jan 7 13:04:44 2010 From: timbond at mac.com (Tim Bond) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:04:44 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Scratches on film support/ emulsion In-Reply-To: References: <000001ca8e74$eb0b5760$c1220620$@com.br> Message-ID: <330E5006-CC6E-45C8-9EF9-BD62C69DA1F5@mac.com> On Wed, 06Jan2010, at 10:56 AM, simon astbury wrote: > I don't know of one unique source. An experienced lab guy or TK guy > should be able to tell you. Normally if the scratch has a colour i.e > blue and you can't see it on the surface of the neg, this means the > scratch is almost certainly pre-dev, the development process having > made the scratch 'heal over'. > If the scratch doesn't cover the whole frame it is probably a camera > 'loop scratch'. Emulsion side scratches generally have a colour > because the scratch has exposed the emulsion layer below it. > Base side scratches will appear white on a neg transfer TK. I have > heard of Kodak or Fuji inspecting neg to establish when the scratch > happened in the case of an insurance claim. > The above knowledge is from working as a colourist in labs for 10 > years. Your best bet is a lab guy. An excellent answer Simon, though I'd like to add a few other items. A good lab practice is to cut off a few frames prior to processing to use as a reference in case a scratch occurs. It is usually found in the box/can along with the whole negative. Try and ascertain whether there is a pattern of repeatability over time. If you see a scratch whose characteristic repeats every X frames, then you may be able to correlate it with the same distance between guide surfaces in a camera or a film processor or telecine. As a matter of self preservation, a good lab tech knows exactly how many feet & frames there are between the guide surfaces in his processing machine. Also note where the scratch occurs in the frame, again using that as a pointer to a guide surface - there may have been a piece of dirt stuck on a guide roller in a processor or telecine, or something stuck on the aperture plate of a camera. Also, check frame lines for a progressive buildups of debris that would have blocked exposure and may have at some point began to scratch the film. Best regards, Tim Bond DuArt Film & Video 245 West 55th Street New York, NY 10019 From perez_hanlon at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 7 15:18:12 2010 From: perez_hanlon at yahoo.co.uk (Alejandro Perez) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:18:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <309742.38309.qm@web24104.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Bye Friend. Condolences for your relatives. Alejandro C. Perez Consultor de Color / Colorista AREA 51 Conesa 1330 Buenos Aires (1426) Argentina +5411 4551 1023 +5411 4553 9630 Cel: 15 4986 2830 perez_hanlon at yahoo.co.uk www.perezcolor.com --- From jeffcee at shaw.ca Thu Jan 7 17:25:39 2010 From: jeffcee at shaw.ca (Jeff Christopherson) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:25:39 -0700 Subject: [Tig] 3D systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2175A373-D916-4AB9-8DD0-91DBA584523D@shaw.ca> Further to Mr. Kirk's writings ( which are always appreciated by me... ) Regarding RealD ( the circular polarized system ), the stereo separation is not as good as the other systems and therefore, when authoring a DCP for a RealD cinema there is some "ghost busting" applied which subtracts a little of the left image from the right, and vice-versa. In essence, this is pre-compensation for the stereo "cross talk" in cinema. At the moment, RealD provides ghost busting software and an HD-SDI real time processor. They are looking to implement real time, in cinema ghost busting this year. No affiliations.... Jeff Christopherson. Consultant, freelance engineer guy. On 6-Jan-10, at 9:43 PM, Richard Kirk wrote: > > > > (2) Rotational polarization > Phase difference between two polarizations. Little second image for > normal head tilts. Still needs silver screen. Glasses more expensive. From David.Corbitt at hbo.com Thu Jan 7 18:03:38 2010 From: David.Corbitt at hbo.com (Corbitt, David (HBO)) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:03:38 -0500 Subject: [Tig] SMPTE 352M Decoder Message-ID: Does anyone know who makes a decoder for the SMPTE 352M payload? This is a signal in HD-SDI VANC that describes the video format such as 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, RGB or YUV, etc. Dave Corbitt HBO Studios Project Engineer 120A E 23 St New York, NY 10010 ph 212-512-7812 cell 973-714-2322 --------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail is intended only for the use of the addressees. 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Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Jan 7 21:51:23 2010 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:51:23 -0800 Subject: [Tig] IMAX announces 3D Digital Camera/CES has 3D focus Message-ID: Throw this into the mix... and wonder how you'll edit, store, color correct, store and back up this data: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ieba1af40f51f1266305ca3c4b63d994b8 A colleague has been busy touring the CES show going on in Vegas where NAB moves in four months from now. He said 3D stuff was everywhere, and that's reflected in this Hollywood Reporter article: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/technology/news/e3iafaeb77d5dd69702b618536cb5f14c80 No connection to IMAX, CES or HWR. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us The flashscanHD/flashtransfer Heading West Tour begins in Boston and the Northeast, Jan. 15. 2010 Get details at flashscan8.us From cemoz101 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 8 02:00:21 2010 From: cemoz101 at yahoo.com (Cem Ozkilicci) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:00:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] More CES News ... Message-ID: <109855.1763.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, Here's another piece of interesting news about 3D: a collaboration between Technicolor, Samsung and Dreamworks for 3D home displays ... http://www.thewrap.com/article/technicolor-partners-samsung-dreamworks-animation-bring-3d-home-12594 Enjoy! Cem Ozkilicci Colourist Platige Image From dwainem at pacbell.net Fri Jan 8 02:04:14 2010 From: dwainem at pacbell.net (Dwaine Maggart) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:04:14 -0800 Subject: [Tig] IMAX announces 3D Digital Camera/CES has 3D focus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4987950B76804ED0930F69579054DC63@dmduodell> I think it's all a clever plot by the storage vendors. HD was a good move for them, sold lots of drives. Once that hit a plateau, they started wondering what next to increase sales? Aha, 3D! Double up the storage requirements instantly for everyone! Brilliant! Next? The push to 12K! Dwaine Maggart Blackmagic Design - DaVinci Support -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:51 PM To: Group Internet Telecine Subject: [Tig] IMAX announces 3D Digital Camera/CES has 3D focus Throw this into the mix... and wonder how you'll edit, store, color correct, store and back up this data: From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Jan 8 03:02:55 2010 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 19:02:55 -0800 Subject: [Tig] More CES News ... more 3DTV In-Reply-To: <109855.1763.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <109855.1763.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6AC7E115-B70B-4B8D-B399-7DA423D9E7D8@tedlangdell.com> And there are 3D TV network offerings in the works. Hollywood Reporter: ESPN and a venture spearheaded by Discovery, Sony and Imax are looking to put 3D television on the map with the launch of the first two 3D networks. The sports programmer said Tuesday that it will introduce ESPN 3D in the summer; the Discovery-led venture will launch its 3D network in 2011. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i7d41666c039b61af563b591d4ccc4a3e I'm waiting to hear someone announce 3DHDMobileTV. Ted From danmitre at yahoo.com Fri Jan 8 11:16:55 2010 From: danmitre at yahoo.com (Daniel) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 03:16:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Lipsner-Smith EXCEL 1100 In-Reply-To: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0FFC9A3A69@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK> Message-ID: <833745.28845.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Peter As a colourist I've used this machine for about 9 years, very good and simple model. The only things it need are dry buffers and Isopropyl alcohol. How often you need to change those buffers and fill in the alcohol tank depends on the length of film you're cleaning per day/week. And you need to install a proper exhaust system on top of the machine because the alcohol has odor and vapors that need to go out of the room. The odor is not that strong like from a Lipsner Smith ultrasonic film cleaner ,but still. The machine is easy to maintain and service, but if you ask me for best results personally I would go for an ultrasonic one. Is a bit of pain with the maintenance and the alcohol tank and all for that one ,but the results are great, even on 16/s16 mm film. George Daniel Mitre Mobile : +971 504668243 --- On Thu, 7/1/10, White Peter Mr (EAFA) wrote: From: White Peter Mr (EAFA) Subject: [Tig] Lipsner-Smith EXCEL 1100 To: "tig at colorist.org" Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 22:58 Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2032 subscribers in January 2009. ==== Tig(gers), We're thinking about a non-immersion film cleaner, and have our eyes on an EXCEL 1100. Does anybody run one of these?  Any thoughts? Cheers, Peter White Head of Technical Development East Anglian Film Archive _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Fri Jan 8 15:36:47 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:36:47 -0500 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano Message-ID: John Palmisano The visitation for John is at TM Ralph Funeral Home in Sunrise, FL on Friday 1/8 from 5-8 P.M. The funeral is at St. Gregory the Great in Plantation on Saturday, 1/9, at 12 noon. Burial at St. Charles Cemetary on Long Island will be on Monday, time is still undetermined. Thanks everyone for your love and prayers. Theresa Plamisano -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From simonastbury at hotmail.com Fri Jan 8 10:11:00 2010 From: simonastbury at hotmail.com (simon astbury) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:11:00 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Scratches on film support/ emulsion In-Reply-To: <330E5006-CC6E-45C8-9EF9-BD62C69DA1F5@mac.com> References: <000001ca8e74$eb0b5760$c1220620$@com.br>, , <330E5006-CC6E-45C8-9EF9-BD62C69DA1F5@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks Tim, I'm sure we could go on for days about this. One other I would mention is that TKs very rarely scratch neg, but when they do it is almost always dead straight. > An excellent answer Simon, though I'd like to add a few other items. > > A good lab practice is to cut off a few frames prior to processing to > use as a reference in case a scratch occurs. It is usually found in > the box/can along with the whole negative. > > Try and ascertain whether there is a pattern of repeatability over > time. If you see a scratch whose characteristic repeats every X > frames, then you may be able to correlate it with the same distance > between guide surfaces in a camera or a film processor or telecine. > As a matter of self preservation, a good lab tech knows exactly how > many feet & frames there are between the guide surfaces in his > processing machine. > > Also note where the scratch occurs in the frame, again using that as a > pointer to a guide surface - there may have been a piece of dirt stuck > on a guide roller in a processor or telecine, or something stuck on > the aperture plate of a camera. > > Also, check frame lines for a progressive buildups of debris that > would have blocked exposure and may have at some point began to > scratch the film. > > Best regards, > Tim Bond > > DuArt Film & Video > 245 West 55th Street > New York, NY 10019 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 _________________________________________________________________ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ From dlt at earthlink.net Sat Jan 9 21:08:04 2010 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 13:08:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] SMPTE 352M Decoder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B48F034.7070004@earthlink.net> Corbitt, David (HBO) wrote: > Does anyone know who makes a decoder for the SMPTE 352M payload? This is a signal in HD-SDI VANC that describes the video format such as 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, RGB or YUV, etc. Tektronix 7120 WFM has a VANC option that can decode anything in SMPTE structure (DID/SID + data.) Norpak has both an OpenGear card and a 1RU data inserter/reader (TES-9 off the top of my head.) (I've used the TES-9 in installations to insert various packets. Depends on your needs- occasional diagnostic or in-line full time readout. If you have a particular full time interface requirement, describe it and I will dig deeper. David Tosh National TeleConsultants, Inc. From DCorbitt77 at comcast.net Sun Jan 10 12:11:21 2010 From: DCorbitt77 at comcast.net (Dave Corbitt) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 07:11:21 -0500 Subject: [Tig] SMPTE 352M Decoder In-Reply-To: <4B48F034.7070004@earthlink.net> References: <4B48F034.7070004@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks David, Our needs are diagnostic. sounds like the Tek 7120 would fill the bill. Dave Corbitt HBO Studios New York On Jan 9, 2010, at 4:08 PM, David Tosh wrote: > > Corbitt, David (HBO) wrote: >> Does anyone know who makes a decoder for the SMPTE 352M payload? This >> is a signal in HD-SDI VANC that describes the video format such as >> 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, RGB or YUV, etc. > > Tektronix 7120 WFM has a VANC option that can decode anything in SMPTE > structure (DID/SID + data.) > > Norpak has both an OpenGear card and a 1RU data inserter/reader (TES-9 > off the top of my head.) (I've used the TES-9 in installations to > insert various packets. > > Depends on your needs- occasional diagnostic or in-line full time > readout. > > If you have a particular full time interface requirement, describe it > and I will dig deeper. > > David Tosh > National TeleConsultants, Inc. From jfmann at optimum.net Sun Jan 10 15:17:06 2010 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:17:06 -0500 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501ca9207$f87b3190$e97194b0$@net> http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/John_Palmisano I have updated the NY side of the Funeral plans on John's Page, so please see above. Rich and anyone else, if you would like meet before please drop me a line. We might as well go together. I plan to attend. If any one wishes you can leave condolence messages directly on the Funeral Home web site: http://www.chapeyfamily.com/condolences.html Regards; Jim Mann -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 10:37 AM To: Telecine Internet Group Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2032 subscribers in January 2009. ==== John Palmisano The visitation for John is at TM Ralph Funeral Home in Sunrise, FL on Friday 1/8 from 5-8 P.M. The funeral is at St. Gregory the Great in Plantation on Saturday, 1/9, at 12 noon. Burial at St. Charles Cemetary on Long Island will be on Monday, time is still undetermined. Thanks everyone for your love and prayers. Theresa Plamisano -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From shukkra at yahoo.in Mon Jan 11 13:05:21 2010 From: shukkra at yahoo.in (Mr Shukkra) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:35:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Tig] auto align not performing well and the CRT beam appears in the whole face plate line a full moon Message-ID: <293601.75904.qm@web95311.mail.in2.yahoo.com>   Hello everyone  In our URSA GOLD telecine machine the AUTO ALIGN is not performing well. I have attached the pictures of the waveform monitor in the attachments. [ Note from admin: I extracted the 1 attachment received and uploaded to the wiki: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/File:Waveform_crt.jpg . A 1MB attachment to 2000+ recipients on the mailinglist is unmanageable. -- Rob, TIG admin.]   Another one problem is, normally the CRT BEAM looks like a letter box in the center of CRT. But in our telecine machine crt the beam looks like FULL MOON bright. I mean the beam appears in the entire crt.   This problem happened Saturday ( 9th jan 2010) at the time of telecine machine switching ON for start the job as usually.    I was checked all the power supplies are proper and this problem happening in the both gates ( 35mm & 16mm), the -200v, -15v & +15v in the brimar blanking amplifier ( neck pcb in the crt)   If anyone help me for solve the problem then it is very thankfull.  Thanks & kind regards   Ravi From rob at colorist.org Mon Jan 11 18:00:39 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:00:39 -0500 Subject: [Tig] SMPTE Hollywood Message-ID: <8A9F1DDE-C639-490F-B1EA-AD998C13932F@colorist.org> Paul Chapman added the SMPTE Hollywood meeting for Jan 19 on the TIG calendar: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From kaduoka at diana.com.br Tue Jan 12 17:20:12 2010 From: kaduoka at diana.com.br (Paulo Kaduoka) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:20:12 -0200 Subject: [Tig] RES: John Palmisano In-Reply-To: <000501ca9207$f87b3190$e97194b0$@net> References: <000501ca9207$f87b3190$e97194b0$@net> Message-ID: Hi All, I got the messages now, and I'd like to say also, that John had worked and teaching some colorists at Finishouse in São Paulo Brazil, 94/95. My condolences to his family. Paulo Kaduoka Casablanca - Sao Paulo - Brazil. -----Mensagem original----- http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/John_Palmisano I have updated the NY side of the Funeral plans on John's Page, so please From owen-cml at ywwg.com Tue Jan 12 19:31:31 2010 From: owen-cml at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:31:31 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Inexpensive Monitoring In-Reply-To: <97BDA24F-DE71-405C-8DAB-26CBB10087D7@cinelab.com> References: <97BDA24F-DE71-405C-8DAB-26CBB10087D7@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <1263324691.4092.73.camel@ywwg> On Tue, 2010-01-12 at 13:11 -0500, Robert Houllahan wrote: > I thought that we could get him involved and we could share our > thoughts about these two sub $4k monitoring solutions. Hi Rob, thanks for the thread. I'll try to be even-handed, although what I saw reinforced my opinion that the Dreamcolor was the right choice for me. (I also have experience with the JVC 24" LCD, Panasonic 24" LCD, and Sony PVM-L25 CRT -- no BVM experience.) Blacks: No contest, plasma is better. The DC is good for an LCD, but when put next to a good plasma it's clear it still has a blue haze in the darkest shadows, except at the very lowest brightnesses. Whites: Although my DC is calibrated, it still calibrates with a red tint even after I exchanged my calibration hardware. I've compensated for this by using the simple controls in the gefen converter to adjust the red, green, and blue gain. Since the Gefen and DC are 10-bit, there is no noticeable image degradation from the adjustment. (For the record, I set my adjustments to R44 G50 B46 to match Rob's plasma). Off-Axis: The plasma still wins here, but DC is quite good. You have to get 30-40 degrees off-center before the image significantly changes. Vertical performance is typically bad (15 degrees or so). Details: The constant chatter of the plasma was distracting to me, especially because the screen was close to the keyboard. It disappears when you back off a few feet, but it makes close, pixel-level analysis difficult. Ringing, aliasing, etc: Toward the end of our tests, Rob pulled up a frame of 16mm film shot at night with a bright streetlamp in frame. The plasma betrayed subtle concentric circles of green and purple radiating out from the lamp, whereas the DC showed a smooth gradation of neutral tone. Red color: The quality of the Dreamcolor's red channel is odd. It has that purplish, laser-like look of red LEDs, rather than the warmer, oranger tone I've seen on most other monitors. Input: The DC requires the purchase of a converter like the gefen in order to function properly. Now that Blackmagic has released their 10-bit displayport HDLink Pro, that's the converter I'd use. The gefen is good, but it doesn't seem to have 3d lut support and has only a basic (windows-only) serial connection to update firmware. For me, the constant pixel chatter, large screen size, and occasional aliasing of the plasma make it the less-desirable solution. I'm willing to put up with the whitepoint issues, input annoyances, and funky reds of the DC in order to get a steady image on a smaller screen. Owen Williams (not affiliated with any brand at all) -- Online Editor / Colorist Rockhopper Post Production www.rockhopperpost.com From rob at cinelab.com Tue Jan 12 18:11:19 2010 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:11:19 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Inexpensive Monitoring Message-ID: <97BDA24F-DE71-405C-8DAB-26CBB10087D7@cinelab.com> HI All About a week ago Owen Williams brought his HP Dreamcolor down to Cinelab to compare it to my 42" Panasonic Pro Plasma (PF11UK) he has a Gefen SDI converter and I have a Hd-Link Pro with display port. I though that we could get him involved and we could share our thoughts about these two sub $4k monitoring solutions. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From cb_gaines at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 13 02:04:15 2010 From: cb_gaines at bellsouth.net (CB Gaines) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:04:15 -0500 Subject: [Tig] John Palmisano Message-ID: <18F7E820-6FC3-4A81-9A23-3FE68942422D@bellsouth.net> I worked with John at Cineworks in Miami for about a year. He selflessly assisted me in learning the new facility when I joined. He was one of the best colorists I ever met and did not hesitate to show me new and better ways of color correcting. To him, the craft was the most important thing and he loved his work and did not mind sharing his knowledge. He loved food, and I would always tell him about the fantastic dishes my wife would prepare, often bringing him a sample or two. He also loved his family and would always tell me great stories about his home life. I am sorry to hear of his passing and wish his family well. CB Gaines From jt at traktionfilms.com Wed Jan 13 01:20:28 2010 From: jt at traktionfilms.com (John Tissavary) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:20:28 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Inexpensive Monitoring In-Reply-To: <1263324691.4092.73.camel@ywwg> References: <97BDA24F-DE71-405C-8DAB-26CBB10087D7@cinelab.com> <1263324691.4092.73.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <3cfa3fa11001121720h631f70f0r3d980ff3b0950687@mail.gmail.com> Excellent summary, Joe, and thanks for the thread. I do really like plasma, and for me it's a toss up which to go with, because there are things about LCD that I prefer over plasma. The chattering, or unstable swirling of the gas really bothers me, too. It's also sucks for calibrating, as one must have a non-contact probe which is considerably more expensive. And I can't imagine using ANY monitor without strict color management. The other nice thing about LCD is that it produces considerably less heat. In LA that's actually a good thing! But I'm going to reserve my final judgement for the new 12 series, as aside from the swirly instability, which is inherent to the technology, I think it'll be a considerable leap forward, and the blacks & viewing angles are wonderful. But I'm also going to look at LED backlit LCDs - I'm hoping there's something with 10 bits and HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 coming out that'll give the Dreamcolor & Series 12 a nice challenge. I find that consumer devices can work quite well if one gets to cherry-pick a really good panel. I'm using a couple-of-years-old Toshiba Regza in my suite, at the time it was the best 10bit non-plasma monitor I could find, industrial or consumer. Sometimes I have to spend a little time explaining why I'm using a consumer monitor, but once they see the images the questions stop. -- john tissavary | colorist | hi ground From Mikko.Kuutti at kava.fi Wed Jan 13 10:52:18 2010 From: Mikko.Kuutti at kava.fi (Mikko Kuutti) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:52:18 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Quadra Vision missing green channel Message-ID: <24A9AF1A-6D90-48A8-A473-967D8F696455@kava.fi> Hi! We're having some problems with our newly acquired almost new (s.no 101, 1997) Quadra Vision telecine. Shortly after the machine was moved to our premises, the green channel started acting up. At first, we'd get about 45 mins of service followed by disturbances, then the working time decreased to about 10 minutes, and now there's no green output at all. A service technician has diagnosed this as a failed green sensor. I would welcome any suggestions as to what may be going on, how to fix this, where to get parts etc. Any ideas? Best regards, Mikko Mikko Kuutti Deputy Director National Audiovisual Archive Sörnäisten rantatie 25, P.O. BOX 16, FI-00501 Helsinki, Finland tel. +358 9 6154 0254, mobile +358 40 900 0455 From owen-cml at ywwg.com Wed Jan 13 02:12:03 2010 From: owen-cml at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:12:03 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Inexpensive Monitoring In-Reply-To: <3cfa3fa11001121718y4ca71d5ckd688cf080225c39d@mail.gmail.com> References: <97BDA24F-DE71-405C-8DAB-26CBB10087D7@cinelab.com> <1263324691.4092.73.camel@ywwg> <3cfa3fa11001121718y4ca71d5ckd688cf080225c39d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1263348723.4092.94.camel@ywwg> On Tue, 2010-01-12 at 17:18 -0800, John Tissavary wrote: > But I'm also going to look at LED backlit LCDs - I'm hoping there's > something with 10 bits and HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 coming out that'll give the > Dreamcolor & Series 12 a nice challenge. The Dreamcolor is 10-bit, HDMI 1.3 (also displayport), with an LED backlight, and in fact it's an adjustable RGB LED backlight. I think HP made a mistake making the dreamcolor so affordable, people don't realize how sophisticated it really is :). Owen From arturocz at hotmail.com Wed Jan 13 15:11:20 2010 From: arturocz at hotmail.com (Arturo Aquise) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:11:20 +0000 Subject: [Tig] FW: Quadra Vision missing green channel In-Reply-To: <24A9AF1A-6D90-48A8-A473-967D8F696455@kava.fi> References: <24A9AF1A-6D90-48A8-A473-967D8F696455@kava.fi> Message-ID: Hello Mikko, my name is Arturo, I was working for years at Cetres/Peru as telecine engineer. There, they have a Quadra telecine and a new Shadow telecine. I had experiences many different problems with our Quadra, and till now, the machine is still working, it's a good stone. So, when we were searching for upgrade, the recomendations went to DFT. You could try to isolate the problem in order to identify if the problem is in the CCD, in the analog Pre-Processing or in the digital proc. Well, at lest you got a first diagnosis. First, at the rear part of the CCD/Beam splitter, there should be 3 BNC connectors beside other communicatio/power supply cable. The BNC are rotulated as R, G and B. You could swapp, for instance the G with R, then try to perform Blac/white balance at your Quadra. I understand that the projection part of your TK is running well. If the problem was on the G CCD, then you should get the noise or any output fron the swapped channel. If the problem is in the channel, there shoul be anything after the G processing. Also you should be able to test with internal test signal, with the help of this signal, you are able to check the channel. In the case that the problem is in the CCD, you could try to open the front cover of the beam splitter. Shure that at DFT http://www.dft-film.com will give you a good solution. I have no affilition with DFT Best regards and good luck. Arturo Aquise Mobile phone (511)-997-236-679 Skype: arturo.aquise From rickpags at yahoo.com Wed Jan 13 16:19:14 2010 From: rickpags at yahoo.com (wbpags) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:19:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Quadra Vision missing green channel Message-ID: <853316.33027.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>   You could try this guy here in the States:   http://www.telecineservice.com/ From rob at cinelab.com Wed Jan 13 23:30:56 2010 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:30:56 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Inexpensive Monitoring In-Reply-To: <1263348723.4092.94.camel@ywwg> References: <97BDA24F-DE71-405C-8DAB-26CBB10087D7@cinelab.com> <1263324691.4092.73.camel@ywwg> <3cfa3fa11001121718y4ca71d5ckd688cf080225c39d@mail.gmail.com> <1263348723.4092.94.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <0683D180-751F-4CA8-B7D3-7C6D766DB2F8@cinelab.com> thought both displays had strengths and I also felt confirmed in my decision to get the panasonic, true there is the chatter but I feel that the better contrast and blacks are worth it. The material we were both looking at was 2K scans of 16mm and 35mm that I shot. I felt the color was closer to what I shot or I could get the grade closer to it (to me) on the plasma which is a part of why I went with it. One thing I thought looking at the Dreamcolor was that I did not see it make a real consistent white across the whole panel there seemed to be a bit of lumpy impurity to a full white frame being fed to it. Surprisingly although the Plasma performs better in off axis the HP was very good. On the Plasma I was a little disappointed by the subtle rings around the very bright light source in one of the shots I don't know if this is a component of the plasma drive system as the panel is supposed to be 10 bits and deep color. Last thought for the moment is that I think the 24" display is a bit small for the situation I am using the display in, I have since moved the Plasma back from the desk a bit... Both displays were very nice for the price point that they occupy. Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From terry at finishedit.com Thu Jan 14 15:58:49 2010 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:58:49 -0500 Subject: [Tig] "Prysm" display technology Message-ID: <6DD6303F-5357-4434-B219-1FCC4875FFB8@finishedit.com> Quoted from Digital Signage web page: http://www.digitalsignageweekly.com/article/39114.aspx Dana Corey and Team Launch Prysm ... “Prysm is the leading provider of ecovative Laser Phosphor Displays (LPDs) for large format applications. LPD's innovative eco-friendly design offers the lowest power consumption and environmental impact with free form flexibility, long-lasting performance and brilliant picture quality.” -- Would be nice to know the timeframe to market- typical vaporware as of this announcement. That said, it seems to me there is lots of potential here. I speculate it may turn out to be easy to emulate a CRT look. I wonder what the phosphor burn-in issues might be? What sort of gamut from these phosphors? Of course, all standard disclaimers apply. -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 Finish Editorial is a member of the Soundtrack Group: “Shooting digital does not save any money but it does move the costs into someone else’s budget” -- Ray Feeney From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Jan 14 17:45:55 2010 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:45:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] "Prysm" display technology In-Reply-To: <6DD6303F-5357-4434-B219-1FCC4875FFB8@finishedit.com> References: <6DD6303F-5357-4434-B219-1FCC4875FFB8@finishedit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Terry Lockhart wrote: > That said, it seems to me there is lots of potential here. I > speculate it may turn out to be easy to emulate a CRT look. I wonder > what the phosphor burn-in issues might be? What sort of gamut from > these phosphors? I don't see any reason to expect the phosphor to behave considerably differently than a CRT tube in terms of burn-in and gamut. The main differentiating issues will be with laser beam energy intensity (more energy allows use of quicker phosphor), phosphor response time, and refresh rate. Unlike a CRT, the phosphor does not need to be maintained in a vaccum, but one would imagine that it may need to be well protected from the environment. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From mark at filmlight.ltd.uk Thu Jan 14 18:07:45 2010 From: mark at filmlight.ltd.uk (Mark Wolforth) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Tig] "Prysm" display technology In-Reply-To: References: <6DD6303F-5357-4434-B219-1FCC4875FFB8@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <4B4F5D71.2000006@filmlight.ltd.uk> > The main differentiating issues will be with laser beam energy intensity > (more energy allows use of quicker phosphor), phosphor response time, > and refresh rate. Unlike in a CRT, the phosphor will be fluorescing when stimulated by the laser. In a traditional CRT light is principally generated by phosphorescence, a process whose "off" stage follows a Poisson distribution (which someone who's set up a CRT based telecine will know as afterglow). Fluorescing is a _much_ faster process, so the response time will be very fast. That said, without help from a little afterglow they'll need to scan that laser pretty fast to make sure the picture doesn't flicker. Mark Wolforth Senior Hardware Designer FilmLight Limited. From rob at colorist.org Thu Jan 14 20:50:16 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:50:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] "Prysm" display technology In-Reply-To: <4B4F5D71.2000006@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <6DD6303F-5357-4434-B219-1FCC4875FFB8@finishedit.com> <4B4F5D71.2000006@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <1B1666CB-10DD-4290-AC38-1935C3966C25@colorist.org> On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Mark Wolforth wrote: >> The main differentiating issues will be with laser beam energy >> intensity >> (more energy allows use of quicker phosphor), phosphor response time, >> and refresh rate. > > Unlike in a CRT, the phosphor will be fluorescing when stimulated by > the laser. Which makes one wonder about possible motion artifacts, if the intentionally-induced phosphor persistence, or afterglow, isn't precise by design or mistake. 11 months ago there was a thread on the TIG about the Dreamcolor with respect to color gamut: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2009-February/015388.html Rob TIG admin -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Jan 14 21:18:53 2010 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:18:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] "Prysm" display technology In-Reply-To: <4B4F5D71.2000006@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <6DD6303F-5357-4434-B219-1FCC4875FFB8@finishedit.com> <4B4F5D71.2000006@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mark Wolforth wrote: > >> The main differentiating issues will be with laser beam energy intensity >> (more energy allows use of quicker phosphor), phosphor response time, >> and refresh rate. > > Unlike in a CRT, the phosphor will be fluorescing when stimulated by the > laser. In a traditional CRT light is principally generated by > phosphorescence, a process whose "off" stage follows a Poisson distribution > (which someone who's set up a CRT based telecine will know as afterglow). Do you have a publically-available technical reference you can refer to which supports this? Why do you think that one principle takes effect vs another? Why would it be that phosphor would behave differently when bombarded by electrons rather than when being bombarded with (similar energy intensity) photons in the ultraviolet range? This wikipedia page suggests that the principle is the same via the very first sentance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor "A phosphor is a substance that exhibits the phenomenon of phosphorescence (sustained glowing after exposure to energized particles such as electrons or ultraviolet photons)." Note that the lasers used are in the ultraviolet range. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From mark at filmlight.ltd.uk Fri Jan 15 00:24:51 2010 From: mark at filmlight.ltd.uk (Mark Wolforth) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:24:51 -0500 Subject: [Tig] "Prysm" display technology In-Reply-To: References: <6DD6303F-5357-4434-B219-1FCC4875FFB8@finishedit.com> <4B4F5D71.2000006@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <4B4FB5D3.90103@filmlight.ltd.uk> Hi, On 14/01/10 4:18 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > Do you have a publically-available technical reference you can refer > to which supports this? Why do you think that one principle takes > effect vs another? I was speaking off the top of my head, but my own experience is that phosphors that would be interesting in this kind of application tend to mostly fluoresce under UV light rather than phosphoresce. Fluorescence is all over a maximum of about 10^-5 seconds after the stimulation ends, so for any appreciable persistence you need to get some phosphorescence going. My experience with phosphors is now a bit outdated, and with all the R&D that's gone into plasma display panels there could now be phosphors commonly available that phosphoresce for a useful amount of time (and not too long!) when excited by UV. > This wikipedia page suggests that the principle is the same via the > very first sentence: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor > > "A phosphor is a substance that exhibits the phenomenon of > phosphorescence (sustained glowing after exposure to energized > particles such as electrons or ultraviolet photons)." Ah, Wikipedia. That particular page could use a little updating. Phosphorescence and fluorescence are two quite different processes that follow different time lines: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03595.htm http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Phosphorescence.html > Note that the lasers used are in the ultraviolet range. Yup. Exactly. Mark. From jack at surrealroad.com Mon Jan 18 15:09:14 2010 From: jack at surrealroad.com (Jack James) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:09:14 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Synaesthesia beta invitations Message-ID: Hi all, I'm about to make a (free) beta version of my new software, "Synaesthesia" available for people in the film/TV industry to provide feedback. The software is used to track data across the lifetime of a production, from storyboard to shooting, to editing, to final grade. Right now, it's fairly basic (it's not production-ready), in order to best work out what will suit people's needs. If this is the sort of thing that sounds interesting and you'd like to try out, you can read more at: http://synaesthesia.surrealroad.com/features and sign up for invitations at: http://synaesthesia.surrealroad.com/beta Please feel free to forward this message on to anyone who might be interested. Jack -- Sign up for the Synaesthesia beta: http://synaesthesia.surrealroad.com/beta www.surrealroad.com Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom From rob at colorist.org Mon Jan 18 20:22:50 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:22:50 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Clip from Marcelo Aprile Message-ID: <765D70DD-D2E6-4981-AC86-B1AAD957BB9E@colorist.org> Marcelo Aprile added "I, Legacy" for the Iacocca Mustang on the TIG reels pages at http://reels.colorist.org/marcelo_aprile.html it's also in rotation on the main TIG page at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 any artist who would like to feature work, please contact me. Rob TIG admin -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Jan 20 22:17:24 2010 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:17:24 -0500 Subject: [Tig] State of 3D presentation tonight-New England SMPTE-National Boston Message-ID: <06B0F632-86A6-4F6A-A86B-CAF6FB9A07E4@tedlangdell.com> There's an interesting presentation about the state of 3D at the New England SMPTE meeting tonight... 6:30pm at NationalBoston. Details at http://www.smpte-ne.org/ Ted Szypulski of ESPN will offer a presentation on 3D production challenges, distribution ideas, and display technologies. Mr. Szypulski will also review 3D terminology and provide an update on SMPTE's standards work on 3D. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Call here after Jan. 13 ted at flashscan8.us The flashscanHD/flashtransfer "West to California Tour" Now demoing in Boston and the Northeast. Get details at flashscan8.us From rob at colorist.org Thu Jan 21 02:00:57 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:00:57 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Facilities Reference: C03 Message-ID: <81DCE86E-B5B8-4296-8E06-81381A7BAC4C@colorist.org> Company 3 is now included in the Facilities Table at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable , which is in continuous development. The Colorist Directory is a resource for freelancers or anyone wanting a listing, editable by any TIG wiki user: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist Rob TIG admin-founder -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From liao.zd at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 10:36:50 2010 From: liao.zd at gmail.com (Liao Zhuodi) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:36:50 +0800 Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx Message-ID: <4b582e43.5644f10a.7b9c.39cc@mx.google.com> A 35mm 2K DI movie, if shoot by a none anamorphic lens, usually the films are scanned in full gate, resolution in 2048x1556, and then confirm the scans in SMOKE or other system, after confirm the online dpx, they go to the color grade system, at the end, film the final cc version out, the 2048x1556 full frame resolution are kept in all the steps described above. And crop the 2048x1556 into to the proper aspect ratio, 2.35 is 2048x872 and 1.85 is 2048x1107. If we know the final aspect ratio, if better we scan or confirm in cropped dpx, that saves lots of spaces on storage. Liao From cemoz101 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 21 14:40:54 2010 From: cemoz101 at yahoo.com (Cem Ozkilicci) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:40:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx In-Reply-To: <4b582e43.5644f10a.7b9c.39cc@mx.google.com> References: <4b582e43.5644f10a.7b9c.39cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <328275.98288.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Liao Are you sure that they won't reposition some shots while colour grading? The amount of times a director shoots something for a specific aspect ratio and actually manages to keep ALL of his or her shots intact without repo is seldom (but that's from personal experience). Cheers! Cem Ozkilicci Colourist Platige Image / Warsaw From tomt at niceshoes.com Thu Jan 21 14:42:34 2010 From: tomt at niceshoes.com (Tom Tomlinson) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:42:34 -0500 Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx In-Reply-To: <4b582e43.5644f10a.7b9c.39cc@mx.google.com> References: <4b582e43.5644f10a.7b9c.39cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Liao, I am not sure if / what you are asking? But you definitely need the 2048x1556 files for your film out. The cropping you are referring to would be only for the digital cinema version and video deliverables. Any cropping to save storage would sacrifice film resolution. TomT On Jan 21, 2010, at 5:36 AM, Liao Zhuodi wrote: > at the end, film the final cc version out, the 2048x1556 > full frame resolution are kept in all the steps described above. And > crop > the 2048x1556 into to the proper aspect ratio, 2.35 is 2048x872 and > 1.85 is > 2048x1107. If we know the final aspect ratio, if better we scan or > confirm > in cropped dpx, that saves lots of spaces on storage. Tom Tomlinson Telecine Ass't. Nice Shoes 352 Park Ave. South-16th floor New York,NY 10010 212-683-1704 tomt at niceshoes.com From liao.zd at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 03:57:30 2010 From: liao.zd at gmail.com (Liao Zhuodi) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:57:30 +0800 Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx In-Reply-To: <328275.98288.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b59222c.0404c00a.6e80.4d8d@mx.google.com> Cem: Sounds like scans and confirm stage should keep all the images intact in 2048x1556, the position are locked in confirm step, when come to the color grade, there should be no position issue, and color grade can be done in cropped image. Even if when output HD or DVD version, pillar box or letter box are the options, while not to expand the locked image to full fill the HD or DVD aspect. In China here, seldom director or dp repo their picture composition, the telecine and offline editorial are SD full frame, and few movie shoot in anamorph, most are super 35mm flate. Liao -----Original Message----- From: Cem Ozkilicci [mailto:cemoz101 at yahoo.com] Sent: 2010年1月21日,星期四 22:41 To: Liao Zhuodi; tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx Hi Liao Are you sure that they won't reposition some shots while colour grading? The amount of times a director shoots something for a specific aspect ratio and actually manages to keep ALL of his or her shots intact without repo is seldom (but that's from personal experience). Cheers! Cem Ozkilicci Colourist Platige Image / Warsaw ----- Original Message ---- From: Liao Zhuodi To: tig at colorist.org Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 11:36:50 AM Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2032 subscribers in January 2009. Dave Reinowski supports the TIG. ==== A 35mm 2K DI movie, if shoot by a none anamorphic lens, usually the films are scanned in full gate, resolution in 2048x1556, and then confirm the scans in SMOKE or other system, after confirm the online dpx, they go to the color grade system, at the end, film the final cc version out, the 2048x1556 full frame resolution are kept in all the steps described above. And crop the 2048x1556 into to the proper aspect ratio, 2.35 is 2048x872 and 1.85 is 2048x1107. If we know the final aspect ratio, if better we scan or confirm in cropped dpx, that saves lots of spaces on storage. Liao _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 __________________________________________________________________ Reclaim your name @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com. Get your new email address now! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ From mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 03:36:19 2010 From: mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com (Mark Randal) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:36:19 -0800 Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx Message-ID: <156cdb201001211936n1472315h7993542f797c54e6@mail.gmail.com> Hello Liao, Corping the image to save the storage, I feel its not good way to go. As we know for 4 perf source, res should be 2048x1556, 3 perf source, res should be 2048x1168, Better to maintain above res though out the DI workflow and set parameters in the film recorder with the image process and output geomentry. Mark. mark at indyfilmout.com mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com www.indyfilmout.com digital film transfer lab. Hi Liao Are you sure that they won't reposition some shots while colour grading? The amount of times a director shoots something for a specific aspect ratio and actually manages to keep ALL of his or her shots intact without repo is seldom (but that's from personal experience). Cheers! Cem Ozkilicci Colourist Platige Image / Warsaw On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:42 AM, Tom Tomlinson wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2032 subscribers in January 2009. > Dave Reinowski supports the TIG. > ==== > > Liao, > > I am not sure if / what you are asking? > > But you definitely need the 2048x1556 files for your film out. > The cropping you are referring to would be only for the digital cinema > version and video deliverables. > Any cropping to save storage would sacrifice film resolution. > > TomT > > On Jan 21, 2010, at 5:36 AM, Liao Zhuodi wrote: >> >> at the end, film the final cc version out, the 2048x1556 >> full frame resolution are kept in all the steps described above. And crop >> the 2048x1556 into to the proper aspect ratio, 2.35 is 2048x872 and 1.85 >> is >> 2048x1107. If we know the final aspect ratio, if better we scan or confirm >> in cropped dpx, that saves lots of spaces on storage. > > Tom Tomlinson > Telecine Ass't. > > Nice Shoes > 352 Park Ave. South-16th floor > New York,NY > 10010 > > 212-683-1704 > tomt at niceshoes.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From terry at finishedit.com Fri Jan 22 04:39:43 2010 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:39:43 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> > > Subject: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 > > > Has a lot of historical relevance. Enjoy > > > A film taken from a streetcar traveling down Market Street in San Francisco in 1906, a few days before the earthquake/fire destroyed the area. > This film, originally thought to be from 1905 until David Kiehn with the Niles Essanay Silent Film Museum figured out exactly when it was shot. From New York trade papers announcing the film showing to the wet streets from recent heavy rainfall & shadows indicating time of year & actual weather and conditions on historical record, even when the cars were registered (he even knows who owned them and when the plates were issued!).. It was filmed only four days before thequake and shipped by train to NY for processing. Amazing but true! > > > ... this is fascinating film footage shot from a San Francisco streetcar in 1906 ... notice the total lack of traffic control and how many different types of transportation you see, including several horse-drawn carriages and carts ... the garb on the ladies ! > > http://www.flixxy.com/san-francisco-1905-historical-footage.htm > > > > > > From carl at stopp.se Fri Jan 22 15:38:00 2010 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:38:00 +0100 Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx Message-ID: I know of one movie that they scaned the S35mm 4perf (non anamorphic) in an ArriScan CROPPED The scan/grade company said, "If you want it in 4K we can scan it in 4K but then we will crop it to 2,35 directly in the scanner... to save storage, and that limits you from tilting shots in grading" worked fine as a bargening thing, that saved them a sh*t lot of storagenot having the 4K 4:3 image in the SAN for the whole post. When there normal chain is built for 2K. Do you really shoot-out a 4:3 image to neg after the grade/online? I though that you would either put a letterbox/crop the "output-dxp" or stretch it to anamorphic so the release-print is projected using a anamoph lens in the theatre. Why shoot-out image that is ment for no-one to ecer be seen. Lets say the projectionist f*ck up in the theatre and layses the film one perf wrong so everybody sees a mic-boom in all the shots and cut-of-legs... /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From neilsm at mac.com Fri Jan 22 16:39:34 2010 From: neilsm at mac.com (Neil Smith) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 08:39:34 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: Saw the clip projected off a film projector at USC five years ago .... 35mm image quality was surprisingly good .... have to say, we watched the film in complete silence and it was totally absorbing ... the more you watched the more you were drawn back in time ... choice of music on clip below is distracting to say the least. Anybody know where the original or best version of the film print is now? ... would love to project it on in our DI theater and film it on a M-X RED ... then restore it as best as possible..... anybody want to work with me to make that happen? .... it really is a remarkable piece of cinematic and cultural history that should be preserved in all its grainy glory. If you do get a chance to see it projected, watch it MOS and you will be transformed to a different time ... the slow pace of the street car is hypnotic as it trundles down the street and the co-mingling of the pedestrians, horses and street vendors is just mind-blowing. Thanks for any info on tracking down best available film print ... as soon as I have a restored 5k version I'll post a link to the QT. Neil Regards, Neil Smith Managing Director Hollywood-DI 323 850 3550 www.hollywooddi.com This e-mail is the property of Hollywood-DI. It is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Distribution or copying of this e-mail, or the information contained herein, to anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. On Jan 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Terry Lockhart wrote: >> ... this is fascinating film footage shot from a San Francisco >> streetcar in 1906 ... notice the total lack of traffic control and >> how many different types of transportation you see, including >> several horse-drawn carriages and carts ... the garb on the ladies ! From lists at johnpilgrim.net Fri Jan 22 21:35:03 2010 From: lists at johnpilgrim.net (J Pilgrim) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:35:03 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: >Anybody know where the original or best version of the film print is >now? ... would love to project it on in our DI theater and film it >on a M-X RED ... then restore it as best as possible..... anybody >want to work with me to make that happen? .... it really is a >remarkable piece of cinematic and cultural history that should be >preserved in all its grainy glory. > >If you do get a chance to see it projected, watch it MOS and you >will be transformed to a different time ... the slow pace of the >street car is hypnotic as it trundles down the street and the >co-mingling of the pedestrians, horses and street vendors is just >mind-blowing. > >Thanks for any info on tracking down best available film print ... >as soon as I have a restored 5k version I'll post a link to the QT. > >Neil > >Regards, >Neil Smith >Managing Director >Hollywood-DI >323 850 3550 >www.hollywooddi.com I think the original is in the Prelinger archives. I saw it digitally projected recently in this program: http://fora.tv/2008/12/19/Rick_Prelinger_Lost_Landscapes_of_San_Francisco See clip #12 for Rick Prelinger's history of the footage and current restoration/transfer efforts. More info in case the above link goes down http://www.munidiaries.com/2009/11/12/archival-sf-films-show-old-streetcars-cable-cars/ Best, John SF, CA From Mark.Sweeney at starz.com Fri Jan 22 23:09:33 2010 From: Mark.Sweeney at starz.com (Mark Sweeney) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:09:33 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: Was it just me on a Friday afternoon or did a lot of the "horseless carriage" drivers appear to be on the right hand side of the vehicle? Mark -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Terry Lockhart Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:40 PM To: Bruce Bolden; Don Packer; Al Spy; tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2032 subscribers in January 2009. Dave Reinowski supports the TIG. ==== > > Subject: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 > > > Has a lot of historical relevance. Enjoy > > > A film taken from a streetcar traveling down Market Street in San Francisco in 1906, a few days before the earthquake/fire destroyed the area. > This film, originally thought to be from 1905 until David Kiehn with the Niles Essanay Silent Film Museum figured out exactly when it was shot. From New York trade papers announcing the film showing to the wet streets from recent heavy rainfall & shadows indicating time of year & actual weather and conditions on historical record, even when the cars were registered (he even knows who owned them and when the plates were issued!).. It was filmed only four days before thequake and shipped by train to NY for processing. Amazing but true! > > > ... this is fascinating film footage shot from a San Francisco streetcar in 1906 ... notice the total lack of traffic control and how many different types of transportation you see, including several horse-drawn carriages and carts ... the garb on the ladies ! > > http://www.flixxy.com/san-francisco-1905-historical-footage.htm > > > > > > _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From N.Feldman at videopost.com Fri Jan 22 22:21:50 2010 From: N.Feldman at videopost.com (Neil B. Feldman) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:21:50 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: If you can track down a pristine print - or end up restoring it - we would love to Dimensionalize it into stereo 3D. -Neil Neil Feldman CEO / Owner In-Three, Inc. 805-413-7575 http://www.In-Three.com From terry at finishedit.com Fri Jan 22 22:27:16 2010 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:27:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <9E2FDF80-5D3B-409C-9FA6-EEEE4420F10F@finishedit.com> Now there's an idea. Holy cow. -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 From rob at colorist.org Sat Jan 23 01:03:41 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:03:41 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <7B5DAE7F-10D8-4EC3-93CA-4AA42391B802@colorist.org> This looks to my eye as if it had been transferred at 16fps but was shot at 18fps; or, it was shot at 16fps and was otherwise rendered at a slower speed. Perhaps up to 4fps slower. Remarkable footage. Rob TIG admin-founder-colorist -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Sat Jan 23 01:28:47 2010 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:28:47 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:21 PM, Neil B. Feldman wrote: > If you can track down a pristine print - or end up restoring it - we would love to Dimensionalize it into stereo 3D. Criminal! Why not colorize it... equally heinous. From rob at cinelab.com Sat Jan 23 01:47:52 2010 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:47:52 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> 3D ? The 104 year old clip is fine as is if only it were scanned on a sprocket free scanner like Jeff's kinetta 4k or the P&S steadyframe which would have made the picture completely jump free. I give 3D seven years before everyone realizes it is a useless gimick, again. My girl says seven years is generous. Rob Robert Houllahan Film www.cinelab.com iPod Telephone sent On Jan 22, 2010, at 5:21 PM, "Neil B. Feldman" > If you can track down a pristine print - or end up restoring it - we > would love to Dimensionalize it into stereo 3D. From rob at colorist.org Sat Jan 23 01:55:19 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:55:19 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <2CC022E0-9B54-4C5F-BF01-A6E5379A02FA@colorist.org> On Jan 22, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > I give 3D seven years before everyone realizes it is a useless > gimick, again. My girl says seven years is generous. Quite possible. In those seven years, it might make a lot of money for some people, however. > Robert Houllahan Film > www.cinelab.com > iPod Telephone sent And the iPod Telephone might last 4 years, before being replaced by... Sent from my ©DEC VT100 Terminal -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From ramona at spectsoft.com Sat Jan 23 02:02:22 2010 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:02:22 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <201001221802.22902.ramona@spectsoft.com> On Friday 22 January 2010 5:47:52 pm Robert Houllahan wrote: > I give 3D seven years before everyone realizes it is a useless gimick, Robert, I don't know about that. I would have thought the same thing until yesterday. We participated in a surgery in 3D and the amount of detail it gave was exactly what the video needed to make it viable for training videos of this nature. It is proven that good visual videos can stimulate the brain to learn more or rather retain more. This was not 3D in your face but just enough to give it a realistic feel of being there. The depth allowed those doctors watching the sense of being in the operating room. Great place for 3D. SpectSoft has a Facebook page where I posted a few pictures. Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard Oakdale, Ca 95361 209 753-4000 ext 104 http://www.spectsoft.com Co-founder of SpectSoft, makers of the Rave product line. From ramona at spectsoft.com Sat Jan 23 02:02:22 2010 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:02:22 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <201001221802.22902.ramona@spectsoft.com> On Friday 22 January 2010 5:47:52 pm Robert Houllahan wrote: > I give 3D seven years before everyone realizes it is a useless gimick, Robert, I don't know about that. I would have thought the same thing until yesterday. We participated in a surgery in 3D and the amount of detail it gave was exactly what the video needed to make it viable for training videos of this nature. It is proven that good visual videos can stimulate the brain to learn more or rather retain more. This was not 3D in your face but just enough to give it a realistic feel of being there. The depth allowed those doctors watching the sense of being in the operating room. Great place for 3D. SpectSoft has a Facebook page where I posted a few pictures. Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard Oakdale, Ca 95361 209 753-4000 ext 104 http://www.spectsoft.com Co-founder of SpectSoft, makers of the Rave product line. From rob at cinelab.com Sat Jan 23 02:03:29 2010 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:03:29 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <3D7ACC8B-79E9-4392-AE88-3B5F62616235@cinelab.com> Hopefully the caretaker of the original would never let anyone scan it in such a completely incompetent way. The red MX would be a fine camera head for a sprocketless scanner with led illumination and a macro lens which actually will photograph the film not some screen image. You get the professional dunce cap for this idea. Rob Robert Houllahan Film www.cinelab.com iPod Telephone sent Anybody know where the original or best version of the film print is now? ... would love to project it on in our DI theater and film it on a M-X RED ... then restore it as best as possible..... anybody want to work with me to make that happen? From lawrence.towers at nyu.edu Sat Jan 23 02:15:40 2010 From: lawrence.towers at nyu.edu (Lawrence Towers) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:15:40 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5fd0a6d640025.4b5a157c@mail.nyu.edu> Google street view, I didn't know they had it back then! The cameras certainly attracted much more attention to themselves! As for 3D or colorization, one has to weigh between aesthetics and a possible recreation of a moment in time. The sense that 1906 footage has to look old and monochrome would probably be in conflict with the experience of people who were there at the time. At the dawn of a new century in a bustling metropolis, I hardly think these people thought of themselves that way. ---Larry From lists at johnpilgrim.net Sat Jan 23 02:56:07 2010 From: lists at johnpilgrim.net (J Pilgrim) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:56:07 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> Message-ID: At 8:47 PM -0500 1/22/10, Robert Houllahan wrote: >3D ? The 104 year old clip is fine as is if only it were scanned on >a sprocket free scanner like Jeff's kinetta 4k or the P&S >steadyframe which would have made the picture completely jump free. The link I provided earlier has a newer transfer, without the roll and gate weave. Here it is again: http://fora.tv/2008/12/19/Rick_Prelinger_Lost_Landscapes_of_San_Francisco (scroll down and pick chapter 12 "A Trip Down Market Street Redux") An earlier (with roll and gate weave) scan, possibly the source of the earlier posting, is at http://www.archive.org/details/TripDown1905 Best, John From mfw at musictrax.com Sat Jan 23 06:24:14 2010 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:24:14 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 1/22/10 5:28 PM, "Jeff Kreines" wrote: > Criminal! Why not colorize it... equally heinous. >------------------------------------------------------------< I dunno about that, Jeff. If adding 3D to a 100-year-old film clip would make it more interesting to a contemporary audience -- assuming it was cleaned-up, pin-registered, and restored -- I think it'd be fine. Virtually all documentaries employ a lot of tricks and add a point of view. Even Ken Burns' films add sound effects and animate still photos to simulate movement, all done in an attempt to add life to old footage. (I'm reminded of the excellent pseudo-3D work done with still photos in the documentary THE KID STAYS IN THE PICTURE.) I don't see where adding a 3D effect to something like this is blasphemy. As long as the 3D is done well and looks good, I think it's a perfectly valid filmmaking choice. I might draw the line at somebody using humanoid CG-creatures to recreate, say, the Lincoln assassination. That definitely gets into a weird area. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From rob at colorist.org Sat Jan 23 06:21:18 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 01:21:18 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <5fd0a6d640025.4b5a157c@mail.nyu.edu> References: <5fd0a6d640025.4b5a157c@mail.nyu.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 22, 2010, at 9:15 PM, Lawrence Towers wrote: > Google street view, I didn't know they had it back then! The cameras > certainly attracted much more attention to themselves! These look like cars that were pulled by a cable in the middle slot- cable cars. You notice at one point a group of gentlemen wanting to board, the driver plunging on ahead past them. One of the men, Mr. Dee, was so mad, they named the episode Streetcar of Dee's Ire. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Sat Jan 23 06:50:19 2010 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:50:19 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 23, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Marc Wielage wrote: > Even Ken Burns' films add sound effects and animate still photos to simulate > movement, all done in an attempt to add life to old footage. I think Burns is a talentless corporate hack. He and his brother have no respect for the archival footage they abuse. My favorite example is Ric Burns' film about Andy Warhol. Whatever you think of Warhol, he was very concerned about his frames. (When a film has 33 minute takes, that matters.) Burns Jr. decided that his compositional sense was superior to Warhol's, and he cropped all of the film clips from Warhol's films (which were 1.33) to 16:9. In some cases, this cropped one of three characters out of the frame, making it incomprehensible. Why? Because he could get away with it. I deal a lot with archival film, and while I have no problem using modern technology to repair defects that have occurred through years of negligence, I don't think we have the right to alter someone else's work. Even removing grain alters the brushstroke of the artist. Just waiting for the equivalent of Burns to rewrite Faulkner, say, to make it more accessible to modern audiences. But I'm a cranky old curmudgeon. Jeff From neilsm at mac.com Sat Jan 23 07:05:05 2010 From: neilsm at mac.com (Neil Smith) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:05:05 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <694BCDE0-6729-4339-9565-203F407D4364@finishedit.com> <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <3393C23E-2977-42A6-87C9-694609F1F693@mac.com> Thanks John ... but do you know who has the best existing print? .. we worked on a re-imagineering remake of 'The Cabinet Of Dr. Caligari' about four years ago - lots of green screen comps and AE VFX... but the most important thing about the movie was that the the Director and Filmmaker, David Fisher (not Fincher ... he's on our Lot shooting 'The Social Network' on three M-X RED Ones at the moment) found the best film print in the world somewhere in Moscow ... it had been stolen by the Russians after the war ... David ingested that high quality print and then did all the digital work on top of that great print. So where is the best print of the SF 1906 tram car ride? Neil P.S ... I always wanted to have an 'authentic' digital version of this clip right from the second I watched the celluloid version at SC .... partly why I think that filming it inside a theater (not your average theater) might be a realistic way of capturing the cinematic past. PPS .... yes, I'm still a stupid dunce. On Jan 22, 2010, at 6:56 PM, J Pilgrim wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2032 subscribers in January 2009. > Dave Reinowski supports the TIG. > ==== > > At 8:47 PM -0500 1/22/10, Robert Houllahan wrote: >> 3D ? The 104 year old clip is fine as is if only it were scanned on >> a sprocket free scanner like Jeff's kinetta 4k or the P&S >> steadyframe which would have made the picture completely jump free. > > The link I provided earlier has a newer transfer, without the roll > and gate weave. > Here it is again: http://fora.tv/2008/12/19/Rick_Prelinger_Lost_Landscapes_of_San_Francisco > (scroll down and pick chapter 12 "A Trip Down Market Street Redux") > > An earlier (with roll and gate weave) scan, possibly the source of > the earlier posting, is at http://www.archive.org/details/TripDown1905 > > Best, > John > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at cinelab.com Sat Jan 23 06:34:43 2010 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 01:34:43 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 Message-ID: <7253CD58-4711-4D09-829D-C7479307A3E0@cinelab.com> You better because your idea was the equivalent if taking a shit on a VanGogh. > In the meantime I will stand quietly in the corner with my Dunce's > Cap pulled tightly over my head awaiting your next words of wisdom > and enlightenment. Robert Houllahan Film www.cinelab.com iPod Telephone sent > From rob at colorist.org Sat Jan 23 14:25:04 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:25:04 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <7253CD58-4711-4D09-829D-C7479307A3E0@cinelab.com> References: <7253CD58-4711-4D09-829D-C7479307A3E0@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <6D87BE20-0B7B-432A-82D0-D7B4A1931C8E@colorist.org> On Jan 23, 2010, at 1:34 AM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > You better because your idea was the equivalent if taking a shit on > a VanGogh. > > >> In the meantime I will stand quietly in the corner with my Dunce's >> Cap pulled tightly over my head awaiting your next words of wisdom >> and enlightenment. > > Robert Houllahan Film > www.cinelab.com > iPod Telephone sent Hi Robert, I don't see the message you quoted as having been posted to the TIG, nor from whom it came. Posting a private message to the TIG is a mistake that can happen. Rob TIG admin-founder -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jeffcee at shaw.ca Sat Jan 23 18:05:01 2010 From: jeffcee at shaw.ca (Jeff Christopherson) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 11:05:01 -0700 Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Carl, Your reasoning is correct. You should shoot only what you want the audience to see, therefore you should letterbox/crop the areas outside of the intended aspect ratio. I was involved in a 1.85 4K project and we made the choice to scan all of the full app camera negative to give us the freedom to tilt a lot and pan a little. We paid for it with space. We rendered 1.85 DPX files for the filmout which at least saved some space on that side. Best Regards, Jeff Christopherson ( currently at the Sundance Film Festival. ) ------- +1 (403)708.3452 ( GSM Canada ) +32 (0)479.959.950 ( GSM Belgium ) Skype: jeffc_calgary On 22-Jan-10, at 6:37 PM, tig-request at colorist.org wrote: > From: Carl Skaff > Date: January 22, 2010 8:38:00 AM MST (CA) > To: "tig at colorist.org" > Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx > > > I know of one movie that they scaned the S35mm 4perf (non > anamorphic) in an ArriScan CROPPED > The scan/grade company said, "If you want it in 4K we can scan it > in 4K but then we will crop it to 2,35 directly in the scanner... > to save storage, and that limits you from tilting shots in grading" > worked fine as a bargening thing, that saved them a sh*t lot of > storagenot having the 4K 4:3 image in the SAN for the whole post. > When there normal chain is built for 2K. > > > Do you really shoot-out a 4:3 image to neg after the grade/online? > I though that you would either put a letterbox/crop the "output- > dxp" or stretch it to anamorphic so the release-print is projected > using a anamoph lens in the theatre. > Why shoot-out image that is ment for no-one to ecer be seen. Lets > say the projectionist f*ck up in the theatre and layses the film > one perf wrong so everybody sees a mic-boom in all the shots and > cut-of-legs... > > > /carl > > > > Carl Skaff > _____________________ > Head of Telecine > Stockholm Postproduction > www.stopp.se > phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 > fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From jpo at prestodigital.ca Sat Jan 23 19:22:41 2010 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 12:22:41 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B273A17-D818-442D-84D2-1BE79A0B5823@prestodigital.ca> I say, let's take another crack at the Sphinx at Giza, and this time use materials that will take the weather. And keep the nose. On 22-Jan-10, at 11:50 PM, Jeff Kreines wrote: > Just waiting for the equivalent of Burns to rewrite Faulkner, say, > to make it more accessible to modern audiences. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at cinelab.com Sat Jan 23 18:38:53 2010 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:38:53 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <201001221802.22902.ramona@spectsoft.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> <201001221802.22902.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <63A11882-3FC3-41C8-9195-AC1FFF1742F1@cinelab.com> > Robert, I don't know about that. I would have thought the same thing until > yesterday. We participated in a surgery in 3D and the amount of detail it > gave was exactly what the video needed to make it viable for training videos I was specifically speaking about motion picture entertainment where 3D adds nothing to the story, IMO. I knew someone at Zeiss who was the rep for a stereoscopic microscope system which overlaid 3D Cat scan information for neurosurgery it was a impressive instrument that used 3D for great advantage. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Sat Jan 23 21:40:46 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:40:46 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Fantastic footage ...from a Streetcar in 1906 In-Reply-To: <63A11882-3FC3-41C8-9195-AC1FFF1742F1@cinelab.com> References: <298586.8319.qm@web82307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <28E2A464-EB7B-4B93-AE01-DA22E7C19FD4@cinelab.com> <201001221802.22902.ramona@spectsoft.com> <63A11882-3FC3-41C8-9195-AC1FFF1742F1@cinelab.com> Message-ID: On Jan 23, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > I was specifically speaking about motion picture entertainment where > 3D adds nothing to the story, IMO. I imagine that to be a valid criticism. Story (or by extension script) doesn't mean a lot in profitable mainstream cinema. The profits don't usually account for art, in at least one major world culture, that gets its cues from TV. > I knew someone at Zeiss who was the rep for a stereoscopic > microscope system which overlaid 3D Cat scan information for > neurosurgery it was a impressive instrument that used 3D for great > advantage. In the 1980s we did some medical 3D transfers from a Rank MkIII, without glasses, that used a flashing-eof'ing-frame technique that you had to watch for a while before convincing yourself it wasn't just a headache. Rob TIG admin. founder. colorist -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From liao.zd at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 09:49:42 2010 From: liao.zd at gmail.com (Liao Zhuodi) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:49:42 +0800 Subject: [Tig] When to Crop the full gate sacn dpx Message-ID: <4b5d6939.5544f10a.2732.790f@mx.google.com> Carl: You right, we do not shoot-out a 4:3 image to the neg, after the grade/online. For the 2.35 anamorphic versions, crop and stretch it. In China here, for some censorship reasons, 1.85 must be 1.85, 1.78 must be 1.78, even the film gate in the theatre will block the other area, we still need to make it pure black. Just in case the audience will accidentally see them. I saw a few intermediate positives from US to make chinese version copy, like Iron Man and Transformer, some shots are shot on the sound track, I guess those shots were shot on site by a anamorphic lens, with no gate in the camera, and keep all dpx in full frame aspect all the way down to the end. Liao ----------------------------------------------------------- Quote: I know of one movie that they scaned the S35mm 4perf (non anamorphic) in an ArriScan CROPPED The scan/grade company said, "If you want it in 4K we can scan it in 4K but then we will crop it to 2,35 directly in the scanner... to save storage, and that limits you from tilting shots in grading" worked fine as a bargening thing, that saved them a sh*t lot of storagenot having the 4K 4:3 image in the SAN for the whole post. When there normal chain is built for 2K. Do you really shoot-out a 4:3 image to neg after the grade/online? I though that you would either put a letterbox/crop the "output-dxp" or stretch it to anamorphic so the release-print is projected using a anamoph lens in the theatre. Why shoot-out image that is ment for no-one to ecer be seen. Lets say the projectionist f*ck up in the theatre and layses the film one perf wrong so everybody sees a mic-boom in all the shots and cut-of-legs... /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From dnwarner at crawford.com Mon Jan 25 22:33:41 2010 From: dnwarner at crawford.com (David N Warner (Post Eng)) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:33:41 -0500 Subject: [Tig] 125MM Motion Picture Film Scan? Message-ID: <68034E809606D3428703A885B61DE43E172BF118C8@BARIUM.crawford.com> Hello, We have been contacted by a government entity about scanning some 125mm motion picture film. I have not found much information on this format...especially motion picture film. There are some references to still photography use of 125mm film though. The footage was shot by the army in the 1940s of some aircraft being refueled and is rare indeed... both the film itself and the activity being photographed. Maybe shot with some military, special use camera? It seemed that I had heard about someone that invented a film scanner for old/ obsolete film types that was sprocketless. Perhaps someone out there would have a better handle on this type of film process and perhaps know if it could ever be recovered? You may contact me off list or through the normal TIG. Thanks! Dave I bet there will never be a 125mm gate for a Spirit...so that's out.... David N. Warner Crawford Media Services 3845 Pleasantdale Road Atlanta, Georgia 30340 Main 678-421-0333 Fax 678.421.6715 Direct 678.421.6814 (e) dnwarner at crawford.com (w) www.crawfordpost.com From nottinghams3 at verizon.net Tue Jan 26 16:35:06 2010 From: nottinghams3 at verizon.net (Samuel Nottingham) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:35:06 -0800 Subject: [Tig] 125MM Motion Picture Film Scan? In-Reply-To: <68034E809606D3428703A885B61DE43E172BF118C8@BARIUM.crawford.com> References: <68034E809606D3428703A885B61DE43E172BF118C8@BARIUM.crawford.com> Message-ID: David, Are you sure this is motion picture film? This sounds like the film format 120 - 220 for still cameras. Since the film you describe is sprocketless, I doubt it would qualify for any scientific-military use. Such a large format would no doubt have been chosen for its resolving power, however the lack of sprockets would have limited its use as a motion picture format since the space between frames would have been subject to slippage in the camera. That is not to say that someone decided to use it that way, but the only way to insure frame stability would be to use the aperture edge of the camera; then lining the image (one frame to the next) manually - a very tedious process. A still camera could have been modified to shoot multi-frame motion picture films or an Arial recon camera could have been used in this context since they used long cuts of 120 sized films. Tom Nottingham -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of David N Warner (Post Eng) Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:34 PM To: 'tig at colorist.org' Subject: [Tig] 125MM Motion Picture Film Scan? Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2032 subscribers in January 2009. Dave Reinowski supports the TIG. ==== Hello, We have been contacted by a government entity about scanning some 125mm motion picture film. I have not found much information on this format...especially motion picture film. There are some references to still photography use of 125mm film though. The footage was shot by the army in the 1940s of some aircraft being refueled and is rare indeed... both the film itself and the activity being photographed. Maybe shot with some military, special use camera? It seemed that I had heard about someone that invented a film scanner for old/ obsolete film types that was sprocketless. Perhaps someone out there would have a better handle on this type of film process and perhaps know if it could ever be recovered? You may contact me off list or through the normal TIG. Thanks! Dave I bet there will never be a 125mm gate for a Spirit...so that's out.... David N. Warner Crawford Media Services 3845 Pleasantdale Road Atlanta, Georgia 30340 Main 678-421-0333 Fax 678.421.6715 Direct 678.421.6814 (e) dnwarner at crawford.com (w) www.crawfordpost.com _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Fri Jan 29 15:01:28 2010 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 10:01:28 -0500 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci panel Message-ID: <52A0854B-5DB2-4EC2-AD2E-7969ABACB458@colorist.org> Ricardo Acosta is in need of a DaVinci secondaries panel. The photo he references in the message below is on the TIG wiki at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/File:CIMG1325.JPG and his email address is tkvenezuela at hotmail.com --Rob, TIG admin Hello: I am looking for a daVinci secondaries soft panel for a 888 DUI. It is the 37 pin type, (see picture attached). You can contact me off list at tkvenezuela at hotmail.com. Thanks and best regards to all: Ricardo Acosta, Colorista Director. Telecine de Venezuela, Caracas. From bobfesta at mac.com Sat Jan 30 05:36:47 2010 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:36:47 -0800 Subject: [Tig] A Single Man Message-ID: <7801EF52-D084-4B1F-A5FD-08C17D7298E6@mac.com> Hey All, Kudos to Stephen Nakamura for his work on "A Single Man". I saw an average print at an average theatre, but the dynamic color changes from desat to color were really well done. I know that a color dissolve is something so simple that we all do, but the execution in this picture was well done. Very evocative of the period, and a great subliminal mood changer, all done with restraint and a steady hand. I also like the way he damped down the HMI flicker in the overcranked shots. Great job. Best, Bob Disclaimer. Yes I have done more than one color dissolve before. Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit www.NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV