From Greg.Barrett at framestore.com Tue Sep 1 10:30:02 2009 From: Greg.Barrett at framestore.com (Greg Barrett) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:30:02 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tig] Framestore DLab Closure In-Reply-To: <1131958514.2124851251797241103.JavaMail.root@mailbox1> Message-ID: <1166028527.2125181251797402869.JavaMail.root@mailbox1> Dear All, It is with great sadness that Framestore has announced the closure of its Digital Lab after many pioneering and illustrious years. I will personally no longer be at the company, nor on this e-mail address, so please use my google mail address below in all correspondence. I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their support and the work they have put through the Digital Lab throughout the last few years. And I would also like to wish the VFX and commercials departments at Framestore every success. I look forward to seeing and working with you all again in the near future. Many thanks, Greg gregbarrett74 at googlemail.com 07799060848 -- Greg Barrett Head Of Digital Lab Framestore 9 Noel Street tel. +44 (0) 20 7208 2600 mob. +44 (0) 7799 060 848 fax +44 (0) 20 7208 6420 greg.barrett at framestore.com www.framestore.com/dlab From rknoblach at business-tv-gmbh.de Tue Sep 1 09:12:12 2009 From: rknoblach at business-tv-gmbh.de (=?UTF-8?B?UsO8ZGlnZXIgS25vYmxhY2g=?=) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:12:12 +0200 Subject: [Tig] parties at IBC In-Reply-To: <8C5C56B8-D135-4DA5-BC80-5A7595AB4FFD@colorist.org> References: <8C5C56B8-D135-4DA5-BC80-5A7595AB4FFD@colorist.org> Message-ID: <4A9CD75C.5040000@business-tv-gmbh.de> Hello Rob, we will meet on Saturday at the DVS booth 7.E21 around 17.30 Rumour has it that they will be handing out free beers :-) We are looking forward to meeting you and everyone else in person. With best regards, Rüdiger. > There's one party we know about at IBC, on Sept. 12 at the FilmLight > stand F.731 as listed in the TIG calendar at > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main > > are there any others? From rknoblach at business-tv-gmbh.de Tue Sep 1 09:15:55 2009 From: rknoblach at business-tv-gmbh.de (=?UTF-8?B?UsO8ZGlnZXIgS25vYmxhY2g=?=) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:15:55 +0200 Subject: [Tig] parties at IBC In-Reply-To: <8C5C56B8-D135-4DA5-BC80-5A7595AB4FFD@colorist.org> References: <8C5C56B8-D135-4DA5-BC80-5A7595AB4FFD@colorist.org> Message-ID: <4A9CD83B.6090705@business-tv-gmbh.de> and on Saturday evening, there will be a Scratch user meeting at De Balie (not sure if that counts as a 'party') starting at 7 pm Rüdiger. From alim at upstairsefx.com Tue Sep 1 18:58:49 2009 From: alim at upstairsefx.com (Andrew Lim) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:58:49 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform Message-ID: Hello all, So I usually watch goings on here from a corner, but with trepidation I'm dipping my toe in the pool of tig with a most likely common question/problem. When doing a 'virtual telecine', I'd like to get an idea of how most of you handle conforming 29.97 edls with scanned material. Specifically when grading and playing out back to tape at 29.97, making sure you get exact timecode match so reconform at editorial is correct. Do you convert the edl to 24 before scanning? Do you scan at 29.97? I know it's mainly telecine based here so the problem isn't relevant to everyone. Thanks Andrew From rob at cinelab.com Tue Sep 1 19:29:44 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:29:44 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Do you convert the edl to 24 before scanning? Do you scan at 29.97? I don't think there is a scanner yet that can do more than 25fps in 2K (The Scannity) most are 15fps or slower these days. In general you would have to set the scanner up with a keycode list or a Timecode edl that references a punch on the film and the scanner would scan frames from there usually with an appropriate set of handles. Depending on how tight the edl is and how good the conform system some tweeks might be needed from there. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From alim at upstairsefx.com Tue Sep 1 21:00:02 2009 From: alim at upstairsefx.com (Andrew Lim) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:00:02 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Apologies, I meant scan normally (regardless of the scanning speed) but with 29.97 frames per second leaving you with crazy DPX frames made up of fields. On 1 Sep 2009, at 14:29, Robert Houllahan wrote: >> Do you convert the edl to 24 before scanning? Do you scan at 29.97? > > I don't think there is a scanner yet that can do more than 25fps in > 2K (The Scannity) most are 15fps or slower these days. In general > you would have to set the scanner up with a keycode list or a Andrew From rob at cinelab.com Tue Sep 1 22:14:23 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 17:14:23 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> On Sep 1, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Andrew Lim wrote: > Apologies, I meant scan normally (regardless of the scanning speed) > but with 29.97 frames per second leaving you with crazy DPX frames > made up of fields. DPX scans do not have fields they are a direct one to one Film frame to DPX files this is not video so it does not have fields. You can have whatever DI system you are using play DPX files back at just about any frame rate you want. Furthermore "Scan Normally" is irrespective of the scanning speed of the scanner there is no correlation to the playback speed of the film files. A scanner like the Arriscan may be able to scan at 5 FPS in 2K but only 1.5 FPS in 4K however the files after they are scanned will play back at 24 FPS. 29.97 video can be from a telecine and can be made to have a relationship to the individual film frames on a roll of film which you can correlate to that film roll in the scanners software. The relationship can be with Keycode (Film edge numbers) or by Video timecode referenced to the film roll. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From alim at upstairsefx.com Tue Sep 1 23:05:53 2009 From: alim at upstairsefx.com (Andrew Lim) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:05:53 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> References: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <7211E958-F84C-451E-96F2-35AA45B36829@upstairsefx.com> Hi Rob, Thanks, by 'regardless of scanning speed' I meant I wasn't regarding or associating how quick your Arriscan/Spirit/whatever scans to playback speed, I know that much. I know DPX frames are full frames not relating to video, I deal with them everyday, but I have seen scanned material as DPXs but like video, 2 clean full frames and 3 interlaced frames (crazy i know). Each DPX frame was full in terms of data but not necessarily of image. How you're meant to deal with it I have no idea. Andrew On 1 Sep 2009, at 17:14, Robert Houllahan wrote: > > DPX scans do not have fields they are a direct one to one Film frame > to DPX files this is not video so it does not have fields. You can Andrew From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Sep 1 23:24:04 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 17:24:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> References: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Robert Houllahan wrote: > > DPX scans do not have fields they are a direct one to one Film frame to DPX > files this is not video so it does not have fields. You can have whatever DI I have some DPX files here (sourced from HD 1080i video) which are clearly interlaced using "fields". There are 1080 lines, field interlaced. If the scanner software wanted to (ack phooey!), it could produce DPX files containing interlaced "fields" and output one DPX file for every two film frames. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at cinelab.com Tue Sep 1 23:19:01 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:19:01 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: <7211E958-F84C-451E-96F2-35AA45B36829@upstairsefx.com> References: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> <7211E958-F84C-451E-96F2-35AA45B36829@upstairsefx.com> Message-ID: <3DC7CA92-E9CA-4F48-8469-CEBA5DD3F91C@cinelab.com> > I know DPX frames are full frames not relating to video, I deal with > them everyday, but I have seen scanned material as DPXs but like > video, 2 clean full frames and 3 interlaced frames (crazy i know). > Each DPX frame was full in terms of data but not necessarily of > image. How you're meant to deal with it I have no idea. Sorry did not know if it was a noob question... sounds like someone got their hands on some NTSC Tk video and maybe uprezed it and ran it through a Video to DPX converter like the AJA or Decklink varieties. I would say that if it is like that there is just a mess with no easy cleanup. I don't know?? write a script to pull the 3 field frames out and call it 23.98??? -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From owen at ywwg.com Wed Sep 2 01:09:57 2009 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:09:57 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: <3DC7CA92-E9CA-4F48-8469-CEBA5DD3F91C@cinelab.com> References: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> <7211E958-F84C-451E-96F2-35AA45B36829@upstairsefx.com> <3DC7CA92-E9CA-4F48-8469-CEBA5DD3F91C@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <1251850197.5524.113.camel@ywwg> On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 18:19 -0400, Robert Houllahan wrote: > > video, 2 clean full frames and 3 interlaced frames (crazy i know). > I don't know?? write a script to pull the 3 field frames out > and call it 23.98??? This is one of the many reasons I still use Shake. It's possible to write a generic script that will take a folder of DPXes and do a pullup operation on the files. Since Shake can be called from the command line, it's possible to do all sorts of fun things like batch operations and remote execution. the basic pullup command line looks like this: shake -cpus [number of cores] -t 1-[last_frame_number] -fps 23.976 -pullup "[input files]" $fieldorder $phase -fileout "$output_dir"/"$filename"_24p.$ext Where $fieldorder is usually "1" for HD, and phase tells shake where the A-frames are. Calculating the last frame is tricky, but I have my ways. Right now my script is designed to work with quicktimes, but it's easy to make it work with DPXs. I can upload it if anyone is interested. Owen -- Online Editor / Colorist Rockhopper Post Production www.rockhopperpost.com From alim at upstairsefx.com Wed Sep 2 01:47:11 2009 From: alim at upstairsefx.com (Andrew Lim) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:47:11 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: <1251850197.5524.113.camel@ywwg> References: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> <7211E958-F84C-451E-96F2-35AA45B36829@upstairsefx.com> <3DC7CA92-E9CA-4F48-8469-CEBA5DD3F91C@cinelab.com> <1251850197.5524.113.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <4ACB5F1B-2F6C-416B-9927-4ED71A655EA8@upstairsefx.com> What would it do with the timecode in the DPX header? On 1 Sep 2009, at 20:09, Owen Williams wrote: > the basic pullup command line looks like this: > shake -cpus [number of cores] -t 1-[last_frame_number] -fps 23.976 > -pullup "[input files]" $fieldorder $phase -fileout > "$output_dir"/"$filename"_24p.$ext Andrew From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 2 01:29:18 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:29:18 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: <1251850197.5524.113.camel@ywwg> References: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> <7211E958-F84C-451E-96F2-35AA45B36829@upstairsefx.com> <3DC7CA92-E9CA-4F48-8469-CEBA5DD3F91C@cinelab.com> <1251850197.5524.113.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: On Sep 1, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Owen Williams wrote: > Right now my script is designed to work with quicktimes, but it's easy > to make it work with DPXs. I can upload it if anyone is interested. You can upload it to your user area of the TIG wiki Owen. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From owen at ywwg.com Wed Sep 2 03:34:55 2009 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:34:55 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Conform and reconform In-Reply-To: <4ACB5F1B-2F6C-416B-9927-4ED71A655EA8@upstairsefx.com> References: <60295484-9BD1-4257-99AC-B2EEC540A8B2@cinelab.com> <7211E958-F84C-451E-96F2-35AA45B36829@upstairsefx.com> <3DC7CA92-E9CA-4F48-8469-CEBA5DD3F91C@cinelab.com> <1251850197.5524.113.camel@ywwg> <4ACB5F1B-2F6C-416B-9927-4ED71A655EA8@upstairsefx.com> Message-ID: <1251858895.5524.119.camel@ywwg> On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 20:47 -0400, Andrew Lim wrote: > What would it do with the timecode in the DPX header? I don't know. If Shake doesn't handle it properly there is probably a way of rewriting it with graphicsmagick (based on http://www.graphicsmagick.org/motion-picture.html#dpx-attributes). owen From steve.simon at snellgroup.com Thu Sep 3 14:11:01 2009 From: steve.simon at snellgroup.com (Steve Simon) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:11:01 +0100 Subject: [Tig] timecode horrors you have known? Message-ID: I'am interested in the corner conditions of broken timecode. having 25fps timecode on 24fps material and the like is common enough but has anyone seen dropframe timecode which is missing the dropframe flag or the converse - dropframe flag set in the timecode and the relevant frames not dropped. Did this ever happen i.e. might archive material suffer from this? or am I just scaring myself with stories of bogymen that just don't exist? Are there any other monsters I should be worrying about? Thanks for any help or guidance. -Steve This email and any attachments are confidential, may be legally privileged and are intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any use, disclosure, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If received in error, please delete this email and any attachments and confirm this to the sender. Snell Limited, registered number 1160119 Registered in England, registered office at Hartman House, Danehill, Lower Earley, Reading, Berkshire RG6 4PB From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 3 18:54:03 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:54:03 -0300 Subject: [Tig] developments (IBC, Classified) Message-ID: <078127D6-0A38-4B01-9E3B-CD0E079DB59B@colorist.org> Details on the following developments, including many new and upgraded products at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 • 1 Filmlight IBC Stand F.731 • 2 Digital Vision at IBC 2009 Stand 7:A23 • 3 da Vinci Systems Stand 7.D08 • 4 ARRI at IBC Stand 11.F21 • 5 Autodesk stand 7.D21 • 6 Cintel at IBC 2009 - Stand 7.B35. • 7 Cine-tal @IBC • 8 XDT Booth #7.A39 (Gee Broadcast) • 9 IRIDAS at IBC 2009 September 11-15, Booth 7.H11, Amsterdam On the TIG Classifieds at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Wanted: Working Dolby CA10 camera systems. Northlight One Scanner Aaton Keycode head 35mm Kinoton Projector Product Specialist/Demo Artist Color Correction system for Quadra 444 16mm gate for Arriscan Available: Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor- Writer Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant Adam Halasz colourist Jon Mendenhall - Assistant Colourist, Chicago Bosch 444 Quadra in perfect working condition Loaded Davinci 2K Plus for Sale USA $100,000 USD Celco Fury Film recorder Price REDUCED 100k USD (new price 395k) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Sep 3 19:04:20 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:04:20 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Client needs Dolby CA10 for short-term--Do you have/know of one that's available? Message-ID: <9E51DA4D-F09C-4DF7-86E5-B113340CDB7A@tedlangdell.com> On behalf of a client, I'm trying to locate a Dolby CA10 M/O reader/ processor/camera package they can use for a short term project. Do you happen to have one that's idle, or know of one somewhere? Please get in touch off-list if you do, or have some ideas about whom to contact. Thanks much, Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us Skype: TedLangdell See you in LA Sept. 21-24 and at AMIA 2009 in St. Louis, Nov 3-7! From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 3 23:20:45 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:20:45 -0300 Subject: [Tig] developments (IBC, Classified) In-Reply-To: <078127D6-0A38-4B01-9E3B-CD0E079DB59B@colorist.org> References: <078127D6-0A38-4B01-9E3B-CD0E079DB59B@colorist.org> Message-ID: There is an addition to the Focus Sheet, P+S Teknik. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 Sprinkled into the body of that document are two events for those in search of get-togethers. an overview is on the TIG Events Calendar (user editable): http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main The question arises, are there any other events to add? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 3 23:28:45 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:28:45 -0300 Subject: [Tig] New today on Classified, Digital Film Engineer Available Message-ID: <5D5B7475-76E5-42BE-96D7-F6EA00691720@colorist.org> from http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds#Available Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor, Consultant, Manager. Over 10 years experience in digital film and 15 years before that in video post / telecine, optical media and video telecom. I've developed operational and calibration procedures for D.I. systems and provided training on equipment operation. Extensive experience with Northlight/ Baselight/Truelight, Spirit Datacine and 4K, Arrilaser, Barco DP-90P, Sony SXRD 4K, PFClean, color management systems and a the usual widgets that glue everything together. Originally from LA area, currently living in Canada. Looking to relocate for the right arrangement and willing to travel to take on project or part time assignments. References available on request. Please contact jeffcee at shaw.ca . -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From kannakamu at yahoo.com Mon Sep 7 07:41:47 2009 From: kannakamu at yahoo.com (Kannan S) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] di colorist Message-ID: <550966.19730.qm@web46003.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> i am di colorist in chennai, i am kannan From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 7 18:55:09 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:55:09 -0300 Subject: [Tig] di colorist In-Reply-To: <550966.19730.qm@web46003.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <550966.19730.qm@web46003.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sep 7, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Kannan S wrote: > i am di colorist in chennai, i am kannan welcome Kannan. Where do you work in Chennai, and how is business there? Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin http://www.colorist.org rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 8 03:43:40 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 23:43:40 -0300 Subject: [Tig] da Vinci bought by Blackmagic Design Message-ID: Full text of the letter from Grant Petty: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Da_Vinci_September_8,_2009 Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 8 04:01:51 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:01:51 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Chrome Imaging References: Message-ID: <4EEC3D02-20C2-43AD-935B-A23EB5B0A83A@colorist.org> Begin forwarded message: > From: Kevlar > Date: September 7, 2009 11:57:52 PM GMT-03:00 > To: tig-owner at colorist.org > Subject: Chrome Imaging > > Is there something up with Chrome Imaging? Their site has been down > for a while. CHROME Imaging | Home -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From Peter.White at uea.ac.uk Tue Sep 8 10:07:03 2009 From: Peter.White at uea.ac.uk (White Peter Mr (EAFA)) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:07:03 +0100 Subject: [Tig] da Vinci bought by Blackmagic Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0AACDFCCF2@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK> Very interesting, and thanks for sharing. Not sure on anyone's opinion of Blackmagic Design, but we run 3 SD telecine workstations into BMD Decklink cards (using YUV or SDI) and I'm happy with the quality vs cost, and think they're a fairly sound company. Support is fairly useless, and although it's not right to think like this but most companies support is useless! Interesting that they're asking for more features on DaVinci's though - I'd like a feature on Decklink cards that is currently missing - how about it doesn't knock audio down by 15-20dB on input, and add it back on output? Tuppence Ha'penny, Tuesday morning agreement/mini rant all in one. Peter White Head of Technical Development East Anglian Film Archive ________________________________________ From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach [rob at colorist.org] Sent: 08 September 2009 03:43 To: tig at colorist.org Group Subject: [Tig] da Vinci bought by Blackmagic Design Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2031 subscribers in September 2009 http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 ==== Full text of the letter from Grant Petty: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Da_Vinci_September_8,_2009 Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From tig at bosti.nl Tue Sep 8 14:45:45 2009 From: tig at bosti.nl (Florentijn Bos|bosti.nl) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:45:45 +0200 Subject: [Tig] 3D (STEREO) RED In-Reply-To: <43298eae0908262128w39c8e448rd37495b26b7ba98e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090826223603.LVN6K.113114.imail@fed1rmwml37> <43298eae0908262128w39c8e448rd37495b26b7ba98e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA66009.3020503@bosti.nl> Hi Guys, Seems to be getting no way around the whole 3D game anymore, so I am going to have to make my hands dirty in the near future by conforming/coloring and DCP mastering films shot on 2 (RED) cameras. I will be doing this job on a Baselight system, so any specific tips on that platform are welcomed. What are the experiences in terms of grading per layer. No one is grading in stereoscopic right? Always per channel. Has anyone seen problems where there is too much parallax between the 2 cameras or anything else that makes shots unusable and only to be discovered while making a 3D DCP test? Was there always a 3D projection/viewing possibility during grading, or only afterwards? Is that really a must or can we just opt for regular one channel viewing and check the stereoscopic relation afterwards? Are there extreme cases where secondaries give issues like masks or keys? What happens if you make a secondary with a track, do you copy the track from layer0 or do you retrack for the second channel with the possibility the shape will be on a different motion? What are the do's and don't concerning secondaries is the general question. Just any actual experience stories would help me :-) Anyone ever authored a stereoscopic DCP on the DVS Clipster? Cheers & thanks Floor From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Sep 8 18:01:30 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:01:30 -0700 Subject: [Tig] da Vinci bought by Blackmagic Design In-Reply-To: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0AACDFCCF2@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK> References: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0AACDFCCF2@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK> Message-ID: <5u2da5hk7vv2qgalueij7qbgjt94lvece9@4ax.com> >Not sure on anyone's opinion of Blackmagic Design...Support is fairly useless, and although it's not right to think like this but most companies support is useless! I could not agree more with your statements regarding BMD's quality vs. cost being acceptable, and about your statement concerning their utter lack of decent support. I must point out, though, that their major competitor in the area of capture cards, AJA, has fantastic U.S. based support, and they tend to reply quickly, take matters seriously, and get problems fixed and defective hardware replaced in a very timely manner. Yes, their stuff is more expensive, but as always you get what you pay for. Disclaimer: I am a completely unpaid AJA booster, beta tester, and, ahem, male model, and have appeared in ads for the FS1 framesync/converter box for them. But I was buying and loving their stuff long before any of that happened. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From vch at vfx.at Wed Sep 9 15:53:12 2009 From: vch at vfx.at (Christian Vollenhofer) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:53:12 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Job Opening Message-ID: <20090909145313.06D0C9EF84D@poster.acw.at> Hi, i am looking for an Colorist for Dokumentaries from 28.09.2009 - 01.10.2009 my company is located in Vienna, Austria please contact me for further informations via e-mail vch at vfx.at Best regards Christian Vollenhofer From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Sep 9 19:24:43 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:24:43 -0700 Subject: [Tig] OT - looking for older AJA frame grabber card Message-ID: I posted this about a year or so ago - still looking. *********************************** I'm looking for a discontinued *dual channel* AJA frame grabber card. It was a PCI card with SDI I/O and genlock. Does anyone have the dual-channel NTV card sitting in a drawer somewhere? I have a pair of single channel NTV cards, but only one PCI slot available now, and need key and fill output. Alternately, anyone have the relatively short lived AJA NTV-HD card they no longer use? That also had dual output capability. Please contact me off list at bob at bluescreen.com if you have either of these available for sale. Thanks very much. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 10 03:50:51 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 23:50:51 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Press Release from BMD Message-ID: <54294106-FE8A-450B-90E7-574E09F0BF44@colorist.org> The Press Release from BMD on the acquisition of da Vinci is available at http://tinyurl.com/lqzl4t Yesterday's letter is at: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Da_Vinci_September_8,_2009 and a link at BMD for Resolve is at http://www.blackmagic-design.com/davinci/ -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 10 04:21:23 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 00:21:23 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Google Street View of Facilities Message-ID: <82EDF08F-9D50-4457-8484-D4CB2228EFDE@colorist.org> The TIG Grading Facility Table at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable is being updated to include the latest openlayers map code and Google Street View. For example, New Hat: on the table linked above, find New Hat, click on the address, and a map and street view generated from the address will appear. ( http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/New_Hat ) All the Facility Table entries will have these features ASAP. (Street View available in selected areas. If you don't work in a selected area, maybe you're on to something.) The Facility Table is user-editable and additions are welcome. Those who would like me to add their entry, just send me the information: Facility Name; Location; Grading Systems; Colorists; Credits; and Photographs. Working with PHP, Mediawiki, and its extensions, within the open source community, is ochin horosho klass. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder: Colorist, Unix System Administrator, available. rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 10 17:45:37 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:45:37 -0300 Subject: [Tig] IBC Focus Sheet final version Message-ID: the final version of the IBC Focus Sheet is at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 and includes all the new offerings as follows: • 1 Filmlight IBC Stand F.731 • 2 Digital Vision at IBC 2009 Stand 7:A23 • 3 AATON Stand 6.A18 • 4 da Vinci Systems Stand 7.D08 • 5 ARRI at IBC Stand 11.F21 • 6 Autodesk stand 7.D21 • 7 Cintel at IBC 2009 - Stand 7.B35. • 8 Cine-tal @IBC • 9 XDT Booth #7.A39 (Gee Broadcast) • 10 IRIDAS at IBC 2009 September 11-15, Booth 7.H11, Amsterdam • 11 P+S TECHNIK SteadyFrame Universal Format Film Scanner at booth 7.H01 • 12 ICA at IBC • 13 Workflowers on the Lustre stations at booth 7.D21 (Autodesk) • 14 Photosonics @ IBC 2009. Stand: 7.G07, Hall 7 -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From t.step at comcast.net Thu Sep 10 23:03:13 2009 From: t.step at comcast.net (Tom Step) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:03:13 -0600 Subject: [Tig] slightly OT, post houses in Manila Message-ID: <6ACCF712-C87C-4251-9B02-6DFE78B8F100@comcast.net> Does anyone know of quality post production facilities in Manila that could use an AE Genius while he visits ? you can email me offlist at tom at colorloft-denver.com Thanks, Tom From enigma at turingstudio.com Fri Sep 11 05:32:39 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:32:39 -0600 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options Message-ID: hi all, I'm considering a number of 6500k, High CRI lighting options for a facility I'm in the middle of building and wondering what everyone else's experiences are. Until I get my spectroradiometer I can't test things myself :) After much annoyance and frustration I'm considering just building my own indirect ceiling fixtures with these bulbs: http://www.entirelypets.com/zmultrasuntri18.html (yes, I realize that is a pet store but look at the CRI, apparently people with fish in tanks *really* want to see those fish properly). Has anyone had good experiences with a particular brand of 6500k halogens? I'm looking at 12v Ushio Whitestars, they claim @6500K: x= 0.315 y= 0.325, which is a deltaE of 5 from D65 if I'm doing my math correctly. Would be nice to get inside 4 but I can't find much information. Actually following SMTPE RP166 is a pain in the a** :) Good experiences or bad with any 6500k fixtures & lamps would be most welcome. Close to D65 I can get would be great. Thanks, _alex -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / direct root at turingstudio.com From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 11 02:12:10 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:12:10 -0300 Subject: [Tig] IBC Focus Sheet final version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <021C7EDD-C2E1-45E9-9273-842256C7026B@colorist.org> A couple of new entries in the following list for IBC Focus Sheet 2009, MWA Nova and RTI Film Group. A very comprehensive data-laden grouping. The information in all its breadth and supremacy is at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 May IBC 2009 bring all participants success. • 1 Filmlight IBC Stand F.731 • 2 Digital Vision at IBC 2009 Stand 7:A23 • 3 AATON Stand 6.A18 • 4 da Vinci Systems Stand 7.D08 • 5 ARRI at IBC Stand 11.F21 • 6 Autodesk stand 7.D21 • 7 Cintel at IBC 2009 - Stand 7.B35. • 8 The RTI Film Group Stand # A21, Hall 6 • 9 Cine-tal @IBC • 10 XDT Booth #7.A39 (Gee Broadcast) • 11 IRIDAS at IBC 2009 September 11-15, Booth 7.H11, Amsterdam • 12 P+S TECHNIK SteadyFrame Universal Format Film Scanner booth 7.H01 • 13 ICA at IBC • 14 Workflowers on the Lustre stations at booth 7.D21 (Autodesk) • 15 Photosonics @ IBC 2009. Stand: 7.G07, Hall 7 • 16 MWA-Nova presents New 16mm flashscanHD at IBC stand 7.J31 Rob Lingelbach TIG admin http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 11 16:35:08 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:35:08 -0300 Subject: [Tig] TiG Update: Dubai Colourist Message-ID: <8E3408AB-4200-440F-A2C7-0D7892351C73@colorist.org> Freelance agency UtopiaPeople ( http://www.utopia.com ) is recruiting a senior Pogle/Spirit telecine colorist to Dubai. Our client is a premier posthouse in this exciting region offering a good working envioroment and exciting jobs. We are looking preferably after a French or French speaking colorist with a commercial oriented showreel/CV. The gig starts 28 October and goes on for 6-12 months depending on how everything works out. Company helps out setting up apartment and pays for airline tickets. Salary is GOOD. TO APPLY: You must be a registered freelancer at Utopiapeople (register free at http://www.utopiapeople.com/forms/registration.php ) to apply Deadline for applications: 090915. Email job at utopiapeople.com write "DUBAI" as subject. In email also write any information you want to pass on to client. Make sure that you have a online showreel available. ===== Confirmed ads appearing on the TIG at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Wanted: Product Specialist/Demo Artist LA-based Wanted, Dual Channel AJA frame grabber card Wanted, working Dolby CA10 camera systems. Northlight One Scanner Aaton Keycode head Color Correction system for Quadra 444 needed Good condition reversible 35mm Kinoton projector 16mm gate for Arriscan needed Available: Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor, Consultant, Manager. Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer Adam Halasz colourist Jon Mendenhall - Assistant Colourist, Chicago Bosch 444 Quadra in perfect working condition Loaded Davinci 2K Plus for Sale USA $100,000 USD Celco Fury Film recorder -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Sat Sep 12 03:40:50 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:40:50 -0300 Subject: [Tig] 8k Technicolor Message-ID: <95D334F7-2A27-40D0-A7FD-1A96D46C7179@colorist.org> Ultra Resolution, 8k scans of the 3 Technicolor strips of The Wizard Of Oz for its 70th anniversary. More of the story at http://www.soundtrack.net/news/article/?id=1335 including comments about Judy Garland's now-apparent acne. --Rob (I have no connection with Warner nor with soundtrack.net) -- Rob Lingelbach Colorist, TIG admin rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Sat Sep 12 06:49:48 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:49:48 -0300 Subject: [Tig] where.. neutral review RED? In-Reply-To: <486F269B.2070600@movieeditor.com> References: <486F269B.2070600@movieeditor.com> Message-ID: <8D48CE30-6D3A-4BBF-BC81-642FF48A7B8A@colorist.org> Can anyone update us on the status of Redcode RAW- has it been improved; and by now, we know that RED has - what is the term, Certified Partners, who are able to use software for various Certified Platforms, or is it Certified Platners, which would cover both; how effective has this been in making it easy to work with the Redcode RAW? --Rob On Jul 5, 2008, at 4:45 AM, Robin Rowe wrote: > RED uses an undocumented proprietary format called Redcode RAW, a > lossy > variable bitrate wavelet codec something like JPEG2000. At this time, > only proprietary software from RED is available and only for Mac Intel > hardware. Reportedly, the layout of this format is still evolving. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From enigma at turingstudio.com Sat Sep 12 23:58:46 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:58:46 -0700 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12C15852-02AD-43E3-B59C-25663FB199C5@turingstudio.com> hi all, Wow - nothing? I'm surprised to get no response on such an important issue. Looking in the archives I find: http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1996/msg00287.html http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1994-5/msg01117.html (A suggestion to use dichroic glass to achieve 6500k with glass filters from the following) http://www.photontechnologies.com/references.htm#background - which would seem to be totally dependent on the spectral output of the bulbs behind the filters) Dichroic glass may be a good option if I can keep the spectral properties from the original lamp, but I'll have to wait until monday to call Photon technologies - and that presumes the dichroic filter is physically compatible with whatever fixtures I choose. I don't see anyone conclusively sharing "what they have done" besides backlighting the critical display which is honestly dead easy. (use 6500k fluorescent, darken with dimmer or ND, measure, repeat, done). You can buy that for $300. It's the facility lighting that's the problem. Ushio sells LEDs @ 6500k: http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/synergyledmr16.pdf however they have a CRI of 70 @ 6500k which is unacceptable. They also sell a halogen MR16 "whitestar" http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/Whitestar.pdf which is 12v only so would require a (likely humming) electronic transformer. These do have a CRI of 92 - I had to call them just to get the CRI and the CRI likely plummets as they are dimmed but I'd have to test. Solux bulbs do not pass 5000k. Also, can't find any spectral data on *any* of the LED bulbs (except CREE) or task lamps I've seen and no LED source above 70 CRI (also unacceptable). Seriously I'm pulling my hair out. If I could go D50 my life would be (comparatively) easy. It looks like high CRI fluorescent tubes are my *only* option for D65 lighting, which is limiting, expensive and annoying. I think I'll just wait for the spectroradiometer and test. Bah :) _a -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / office root at turingstudio.com > > I'm considering a number of 6500k, High CRI lighting options for a > facility I'm in the middle of building and wondering what everyone > else's experiences are. Until I get my spectroradiometer I can't > test things myself :) > > After much annoyance and frustration I'm considering just building > my own indirect ceiling fixtures with these bulbs: > > http://www.entirelypets.com/zmultrasuntri18.html > > (yes, I realize that is a pet store but look at the CRI, apparently > people with fish in tanks *really* want to see those fish properly). > > Has anyone had good experiences with a particular brand of 6500k > halogens? I'm looking at 12v Ushio Whitestars, they claim @6500K: x= > 0.315 y= 0.325, which is a deltaE of 5 from D65 if I'm doing my math > correctly. Would be nice to get inside 4 but I can't find much > information. Actually following SMTPE RP166 is a pain in the a** :) > > Good experiences or bad with any 6500k fixtures & lamps would be > most welcome. Close to D65 I can get would be great. > > Thanks, > > _alex > > > -- > alexander black > turing & colorflow > 888.603.6023 / main > 510.666.0074 / direct > root at turingstudio.com > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / office root at turingstudio.com From jt at traktionfilms.com Sun Sep 13 00:46:32 2009 From: jt at traktionfilms.com (John Tissavary) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:46:32 -0700 Subject: [Tig] where.. neutral review RED? In-Reply-To: <8D48CE30-6D3A-4BBF-BC81-642FF48A7B8A@colorist.org> References: <486F269B.2070600@movieeditor.com> <8D48CE30-6D3A-4BBF-BC81-642FF48A7B8A@colorist.org> Message-ID: <3cfa3fa10909121646q6c7c2749r87a4162501b20f08@mail.gmail.com> I do work with a TON of Red footage, have been since the very first week the camera became available. Here is a little of my experience and what I know so far: Support for Redcode has become widely available, however some platforms/partners are still better at this support than others. There are two forms of Redcode support for now - native, and SDK. The native support has the speed advantage in not having to go through an SDK 'firewall' to retrieve RGB images for further processing. Red has stated that the SDK will be continually developed until it is equal to 'native' debayer support, but that has not yet occurred. RedRocket just came out, and according to Red, all systems using the Red SDK will be able to use RedRocket, which should significantly level the playing field. Also has output capabilities: 4k DVI via optional breakout box, 2k via built-in SDI. Currently very much an alpha/beta product software-wise, with the only way to use the board being RocketCine-X software - available from red.com. The coming months should see some action on this device as it is a real game-changer for Red post production. Here's a list of systems I know to have support for the Redcode file format: Assimilate Scratch - native support, RedRocket support shown at IBC, but not yet available Apple Color - native support Baselight - Red SDK transcode (Baselight Transfer Station) Filmmaster - Red SDK transcode DaVinci - Red SDK transcode Iridas Speedgrade - Red SDK support DVS Clipster - native support via hardware debayer on proprietary card I'm sure I left some out, but since I use mostly Scratch & Baselight, I'm pretty happy to have remembered what I did! I like Scratch for grading Red footage, due to it's native support - 1/2 debayer is real-time, and I don't have to transcode to DPX for fluid, reliable workflow, which saves some time. There are also clear advantages to working in a floating point environment from the 12-bit linear chip data without having to transcode to a 10-bit file format, though working in 10-bit log does help with perserving the data. Still, nice to work in linear when not going to film. Grading Red footage (as with most digital cameras at this stage) requires perhaps a bit more effort, as shadow noise can creep in from the practice of exposing 'to the left' to perserve highlights. With proper exposure & careful grading it's possible to get consistent 10-11 stops of DR out of the Red. cheers, jt -- john tissavary | colorist | hi ground From ken.chambliss at vta.com Sun Sep 13 00:38:21 2009 From: ken.chambliss at vta.com (Ken Chambliss) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:38:21 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Larry Barth Message-ID: <3C0E9BFB-E69F-4B27-810B-9D86C1C825E3@vta.com> Rob, Would you please post this on the TIG for me. Larry Barth, chief engineer of VTA Atlanta, passed away Friday afternoon after a year long bout with cancer. Some may remember Larry as a field service engineer with da Vinci prior to joining VTA for the second time. He first worked with VTA in Florida as a staff engineer starting in 1986, then joined da Vinci as a field service engineer. He came back to VTA as chief engineer in Atlanta and has been working, including last week, until his passing Friday. His wife said the following yesterday: "Lawrence Stuart Barth was a faithful, untiring worker for his God and a generous provider for his family. He touched hundreds of friends and strangers personally through his own acts of kindness. Thank you all for your prayers and support through this time." Arrangements have not been finalized at this time. Thanks Ken Chambliss ken.chambliss at vta.com From rob at colorist.org Sun Sep 13 04:28:39 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:28:39 -0300 Subject: [Tig] where.. neutral review RED? In-Reply-To: <3cfa3fa10909121646q6c7c2749r87a4162501b20f08@mail.gmail.com> References: <486F269B.2070600@movieeditor.com> <8D48CE30-6D3A-4BBF-BC81-642FF48A7B8A@colorist.org> <3cfa3fa10909121646q6c7c2749r87a4162501b20f08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12FB0068-599E-40C9-9BC0-86DE7C9FBA61@colorist.org> On Sep 12, 2009, at 8:46 PM, John Tissavary wrote: > I do work with a TON of Red footage, have been since the very first > week the > camera became available. Here is a little of my experience and what > I know > so far: great information to have John, thanks for posting it. > to working in a floating point environment from the 12-bit linear > chip data > without having to transcode to a 10-bit file format, though working in > 10-bit log does help with perserving the data. Still, nice to work in > linear when not going to film. As a colorist, I have found working in linear to be a challenge. there is a good overview of the situation at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema_Camera_Company It doesn't seem that there has been any progress in Redcode RAW, an inherently lossy format. It is good to know however that more manufacturers are embracing this proprietary format, at a price. 12:1 and 9:1. > Grading Red footage (as with most digital cameras at this stage) > requires > perhaps a bit more effort, as shadow noise can creep in from the > practice of > exposing 'to the left' to perserve highlights. With proper exposure & > careful grading it's possible to get consistent 10-11 stops of DR > out of the > Red. The Wikipedia entry cited above has this paragraph: "Red specifies the sensor's signal to noise ratio at greater than 66 dB,[3] with 11.3 stops of total dynamic range.[4]However, the dynamic range reported from many cinematographers place the camera's dynamic range significantly lower, at about 8 stops. This difference has been attributed to the use of different mechanisms for measuring dynamic range. Red rates the sensor at 320 ISO." I've done side-by-side comparisons between Arri D21 and Red One, and there's no comparison- D21 is extraordinarily better. However, as clients have pointed out, it's more expensive. regards Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder/admin rob at colorist.org From jt at traktionfilms.com Sun Sep 13 05:46:03 2009 From: jt at traktionfilms.com (John Tissavary) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:46:03 -0700 Subject: [Tig] where.. neutral review RED? In-Reply-To: <12FB0068-599E-40C9-9BC0-86DE7C9FBA61@colorist.org> References: <486F269B.2070600@movieeditor.com> <8D48CE30-6D3A-4BBF-BC81-642FF48A7B8A@colorist.org> <3cfa3fa10909121646q6c7c2749r87a4162501b20f08@mail.gmail.com> <12FB0068-599E-40C9-9BC0-86DE7C9FBA61@colorist.org> Message-ID: <3cfa3fa10909122146m10b2c06ardc3330034b26dcc@mail.gmail.com> In Scratch I work directly on the 12 bit RAW files, and since the Mysterium sensor is natively linear (as are all digital cams) I find the best results in a linear workflow as long as I'm working for a linear deliverable. But if I'm going to film I'll work in Raw Log with print emulation LUTs. I've never been much for working in Log when delivering to a linear format... The D21 has a very nice log workflow, but that comes courtesy of Arri's matrices. There has been considerable progress to Redcode, though because it's a raw file format, the work has largely been done on the debayer algorithm and color matrices. The camera firmware & post debayer process have improved quite a lot from build to build, with build 20 showing the greatest leap forward, easily getting 1 more stop in the shadows compared with earlier builds, and a couple more compared to build 15 & prior. So much happens to the image in the debayer process that it is impossible to consider the file format without considering the debayer as a dynamic, adaptive, and ultimately integral part of the resulting images. Build 21 of the Red One firmware, which just went into beta, features 4.5k recording (not sure yet, but I believe it's @ 2.33:1), and Redcode 46, a higher bitrate variant. This is probably as high a bitrate as will come from the Red One, as it's reaching the limits of it's processing power. With Redcode 46 one can record all current formats, as well as the new 4.5k I've compared D21 & Red footage side by side as well, and while I think the D21 provides somewhat nicer images, I didn't see what I would categorize as a huge difference. What was immediately apparent is how much easier it is to grade the D21 footage... but I attribute that to Arri's matrices being rock solid for existing grading pipelines, whereas Red's are... trickier to put it nicely. Red footage requires more work to get looking good in any given colorspace, but with care it's possible to give any other digital camera a serious run for its money. cheers, jt -- john tissavary | colorist | hi ground From rob at colorist.org Sun Sep 13 05:51:38 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 01:51:38 -0300 Subject: [Tig] where.. neutral review RED? In-Reply-To: <3cfa3fa10909122144l2d4ff8edkdd5cff604c2fd29c@mail.gmail.com> References: <486F269B.2070600@movieeditor.com> <8D48CE30-6D3A-4BBF-BC81-642FF48A7B8A@colorist.org> <3cfa3fa10909121646q6c7c2749r87a4162501b20f08@mail.gmail.com> <12FB0068-599E-40C9-9BC0-86DE7C9FBA61@colorist.org> <3cfa3fa10909122144l2d4ff8edkdd5cff604c2fd29c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <046ACAA8-235D-4031-9BFB-AE66F60C0CCB@colorist.org> On Sep 13, 2009, at 1:44 AM, John Tissavary wrote: > I've compared D21 & Red footage side by side as well, and while I > think the D21 provides somewhat nicer images, I didn't see what I > would categorize as a huge difference. I wouldn't berate the point except to say that I found the difference substantial. Rob disclaimer: I am not compensated in any way by RED or ARRI. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From mfw at musictrax.com Sun Sep 13 06:48:30 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:48:30 -0700 Subject: [Tig] where.. neutral review RED? In-Reply-To: <046ACAA8-235D-4031-9BFB-AE66F60C0CCB@colorist.org> Message-ID: On 9/12/09 9:51 PM, "Rob Lingelbach" wrote: > I wouldn't berate the point except to say that I found the > difference substantial. Rob disclaimer: I am not compensated > in any way by RED or ARRI. >------------------------------------------------------------< My experience is exactly the same to Rob's, based on doing final color on two large-budget D21 projects this year, and quite a few Red projects over the last couple of years. I think the blacks and highlights hold up better on the Arri, and I also think it looks sharper overall. Four good references I would recommend: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera by Noah Kadner published by Peachpit Press [ISBN #0321617681] (more a general guide to producers and post people using the Red) plus John Galt's technical white paper report: "The Truth About 2K, 4K, and the Future of Pixels" http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of- pixels as well as Rian Johnson's report "Red Facts: Straight Talk on the Technical Realities of the Red Camera" http://www.rcjohnso.com/REDFACTS.html and Daron Keet's comparison "The Red One Camera -- Through the Crosshairs of my Eyepiece" http://www.postmagazine.com/Media/PublicationsArticle/RED%20vs%2035mm%20Daro n%20Keet.doc I think the bottom line is that the Red camera is definitely "good enough" for a lot of productions (as witnessed by recent theatrical films like KNOWING, DISTRICT 9, and THE ), and most audiences can't tell the difference. But film-savvy DPs and colorists will definitely see the limitations of the pickup. No way is it the equivalent of 35mm film. I take exception to the opinion that the Red can capture 11 stops of latitude. I think it might be 5 or 6 stops -- at best -- and even then, I think DPs have to use a little more fill and watch the highlights much more carefully than they would with film. I believe that digital cameras are harder to light for than film, because they're much less forgiving with exposure problems. Again, I'm not slamming the camera, because I think in the hands of a good DP, the Red is capable of making good pictures. Like any medium, it's all about the quality of the lighting and lenses, and the skill of the person using them. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From DCorbitt77 at comcast.net Sun Sep 13 12:10:08 2009 From: DCorbitt77 at comcast.net (Dave Corbitt) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:10:08 -0400 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options In-Reply-To: <12C15852-02AD-43E3-B59C-25663FB199C5@turingstudio.com> References: <12C15852-02AD-43E3-B59C-25663FB199C5@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: <65a4490d1e3b2c50c88a724eb3f83787@comcast.net> Take a look at EarthLED for dimmable LED replacements for MR16 lamps. CRI of 92. Dave Corbitt HBO Studios NYC On Sep 12, 2009, at 6:58 PM, alex black wrote: > http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1996/msg00287.html > http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1994-5/msg01117.html > > (A suggestion to use dichroic glass to achieve 6500k with glass > filters from the following) > http://www.photontechnologies.com/references.htm#background - which > would seem to be totally dependent on the spectral output of the bulbs > behind the filters) From underscan at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 11:42:11 2009 From: underscan at gmail.com (underscan at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:42:11 +0200 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options In-Reply-To: <12C15852-02AD-43E3-B59C-25663FB199C5@turingstudio.com> References: <12C15852-02AD-43E3-B59C-25663FB199C5@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: <734F2F6B-5845-43FC-A9DB-26462011AB05@gmail.com> have you seen this already: http://cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lumesb.htm no affiliation with them whatsoever of course. cheerz mark -- underscan films | berlin Am 13.09.2009 um 00:58 schrieb alex black: > hi all, > > Wow - nothing? I'm surprised to get no response on such an important > issue. > > Looking in the archives I find: > > http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1996/msg00287.html > http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1994-5/msg01117.html > > (A suggestion to use dichroic glass to achieve 6500k with glass > filters from the following) From richm at davsys.com Sun Sep 13 16:25:16 2009 From: richm at davsys.com (Rich Moscoso) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:25:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Larry Barth In-Reply-To: <3C0E9BFB-E69F-4B27-810B-9D86C1C825E3@vta.com> References: <3C0E9BFB-E69F-4B27-810B-9D86C1C825E3@vta.com> Message-ID: <77D9C5CFF586734483441FB56AD5DDDB0342FD9B@AUSP01VMBX07.collaborationhost.net> Hi Rob, Can you post this to the TIG: Hi Ken, I am so sorry to hear this news, I have a heavy heart today. I have worked with Larry over the years and have always enjoyed his "tales" of the early days at daVinci. He will surely be missed. I am sure his family, his VTA family, and even his daVinci family will miss him very much, I know I will. Thoughtfully, Rich Moscoso ________________________________________ From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ken Chambliss [ken.chambliss at vta.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:38 PM To: rob at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Larry Barth Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2031 subscribers in September 2009 http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 ==== Rob, Would you please post this on the TIG for me. Larry Barth, chief engineer of VTA Atlanta, passed away Friday afternoon after a year long bout with cancer. Some may remember Larry as a field service engineer with da Vinci prior to joining VTA for the second time. He first worked with VTA in Florida as a staff engineer starting in 1986, then joined da Vinci as a field service engineer. He came back to VTA as chief engineer in Atlanta and has been working, including last week, until his passing Friday. His wife said the following yesterday: "Lawrence Stuart Barth was a faithful, untiring worker for his God and a generous provider for his family. He touched hundreds of friends and strangers personally through his own acts of kindness. Thank you all for your prayers and support through this time." Arrangements have not been finalized at this time. Thanks Ken Chambliss ken.chambliss at vta.com _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From DCorbitt77 at comcast.net Sun Sep 13 14:52:28 2009 From: DCorbitt77 at comcast.net (Dave Corbitt) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 09:52:28 -0400 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options In-Reply-To: <65a4490d1e3b2c50c88a724eb3f83787@comcast.net> References: <12C15852-02AD-43E3-B59C-25663FB199C5@turingstudio.com> <65a4490d1e3b2c50c88a724eb3f83787@comcast.net> Message-ID: I should have added all the usual disclaimers. I have no affiliation with EarthLED other than finding them through online research and talking with their rep. We have tested a few of their MR16 products for evaluation where I work. The new ones with CRI of 92 are not yet listed on their webpage so you have to talk with them if you are interested. Dave Corbitt HBO Studios NYC From dlt at earthlink.net Sun Sep 13 19:00:47 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:00:47 -0700 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AAD334F.3060608@earthlink.net> alex black wrote: > I'm considering a number of 6500k, High CRI lighting options for a > facility I'm in the middle of building ... I judge from subsequent posts that you are speaking of the illumination environment in a color evaluation suite (as opposed to a stage, as I originally thought.) The purpose of the lighting for the surround area behind the evaluation display is to maintain a constant reference for the observer so that the colors on the screen don't cause a perception shift over time. The average values of the light used for this "bias" should keep you referenced to 6500 Kelvin according to the recommendations developed back when the CRT was king. (But that's another discussion.) I submit that "high CRI" is not the most important aspect of the illumination source for this purpose. The combination of the illumination sources' correlated color temperature plus the wavelengths reflected from the background material should result in the recommended color temperature and level. We have assumed that the materials of the background could be fabricated to shift the light source's CCT to the desired color temp by tinting or filtering the reflected light. The purpose here is to provide a long term reference for the receptors in the eye so that perception of what is white remains stable. I believe that any illumination source that contains a reasonable amount of energy in the spectra our eyes use will provide this function. The purpose of filters on the light source is more to tune the color temperature reflected from the background rather than to increase color rendition index - a subtle but important difference. Before we leave the background design, remember that a _range_ of neutral reflected values from dark up to about 1/3 of the display 100% white _plus_ some pattern and depth is recommended. The patterns and difference in focal distance help combat accommodation fatigue. The ambient lighting in the rest of the suite possibly should have a better CRI so that light reflected off well-known and non-neutral objects are not unnatural (skin tone etc.) But I don't believe we will be color matching a product sample in the average illumination of the room. A small sample stage should be used for that and there should be no objection to using low power incandescent sources (wide, smooth spectral curve) for this area. All of your best efforts for controlling ambient lighting will be swamped out by your client's work on their notebook computers, only looking up to complain about the funny colors on the main screen. ;-) From enigma at turingstudio.com Sun Sep 13 22:30:57 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:30:57 -0700 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options In-Reply-To: <4AAD334F.3060608@earthlink.net> References: <4AAD334F.3060608@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > I submit that "high CRI" is not the most important aspect of the > illumination source for this purpose. I agree there, though frustratingly the easiest context in which to achieve high CRI is the backlighting. There are cheap, commercially available fixtures that come with high CRI 6500k T8 fluorescent bulbs and pre-cut NDs for calibrating the backlight to RP166. That's relatively easy. My problem has been suite lighting "the rest" since I don't want to use ugly/diffuse/hard-to-control overhead fluorescent fixtures. > filters on the light source is more to tune the color temperature > reflected from the background rather than to increase color > rendition index - a subtle but important difference. Not subtle, a totally different goal which does make sense and which occurred to me after getting hard into this research: that really the important factor is the temperature of the perceived white point, not necessarily the spectral quality of the light. Not to minimize the importance of CRI - a nasty green spike from a lower quality 6500k bulb would probably do harm to perception in the room - especially in the non-colorist positions, but again, that's not the main problem. I think RP166 and any of its brethren would benefit from a "real world" update with details on the ranges of acceptable bias and facility lighting. RP166 7.1 says 7.1 All light sources in use during picture as- sessment or adjustment should have a color quality closely matching the monitor screen at reference white; i.e., D65 (see A.5). Where it probably should say: All light sources in use during picture assessment or adjustment should have be +/- 150 Kelvin from 6500k and have a CRI >70 and a spectral power distribution as closely matching D65 as possible. (blah blah). > Before we leave the background design, remember that a _range_ of > neutral reflected values from dark up to about 1/3 of the display > 100% white _plus_ some pattern and depth is recommended. The > patterns and difference in focal distance help combat accommodation > fatigue. Agree, which is why I have chosen to use grey fabric drapes as close to neutral as possible: brightness variation, texture, etc are all achieved by that. (and I don't have to paint) :) > The ambient lighting in the rest of the suite possibly should have a > better CRI so that light reflected off well-known and non-neutral > objects are not unnatural (skin tone etc.) This was my thinking - which then lead me to think about that assumption and question it (nice to get confirmation) - that CRI really is irrelevant within limits because we're looking at an emissive source (the reference display) and the only thing that really matters in that context is that the viewer's vision is adapted to the correct white point K (in this case 6500). Probably for the purposes of mood/etc it's more important to attempt high CRI than for critical decisions (again, probably within limits). > But I don't believe we will be color matching a product sample in > the average illumination of the room. Yep. for that I'd build a little booth :) > A small sample stage should be used for that and there should be no > objection to using low power incandescent sources (wide, smooth > spectral curve) for this area. Yep > All of your best efforts for controlling ambient lighting will be > swamped out by your client's work on their notebook computers, only > looking up to complain about the funny colors on the main screen. ;-) HAHA. I actually plan to have a color vision test on hand for clients who are interested so I can show them if they have any deficiencies they should watch out for in the process. And actually, most notebooks come with D65 as the white point so they'll at least stay in the same range. Do you agree with the following summarization of your comments and my additions: * That CRI is not the primary goal, especially for bias lighting * That 'facility lighting' should not be used for critical evaluation of physical objects (I agree of course) * That 'facility lighting' need not necessarily be high CRI for evaluation reasons, but (this is me) is probably nice just for environmental quality. ? Thanks Dave and David, both of your responses were extremely helpful. As I promised rob, I'll post here with a little overview of the decisions I end up making so everyone can see what (commercially available reasonably priced) configuration I ended up using. best, _alex From carl at stopp.se Sun Sep 13 23:48:57 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:48:57 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Grading Red In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As many others I to have been doing a bunch of jobs for .r3d-files. I’m using a 3 year old Resolve RT and are working in “1/8-res good” with means almost SD but crap debayer. Since I’m working with a 20” 4:3 CRT (very small in 16/9) it actually look ok during the gradeing, sure it would be nice to work in better quality, and you can it you have a newer/faster system. When I’ve done the job and come to render out I change it to “Half-Res Premium” (full quality but half res, more then you need if delivering HD, I think). The sing about working nativly or sdk... I’m not really sure that Scratch or Clipster actually are Native. When talking to DVS they say that Clister is the ONLY app that work Native, And that scratch is using the windows SDK. Weird cus I belive that Scratch says the same thing. Clister claims to have give better images then the SDK-apps. But I haven’t seen anything to prove/contradict it. I don’t know. All I know is that it is a lot better to grade directly from the r3d (even using the SDK) rather then convert to dpx before. Maybe not technicly, but for sure in a creative way. Being able to controll the SDK-settings + the normal grade-tools in the Resolve (or somethingels) gives you two colorcorectors that you can use against eachother to make some nice things. >From what I understand with the “native” apps is that the have the same controlls as all the others have in the SDK. So I don’t really understand what the difference actually would be. Its like saying the Spirit controll panel is the only thing able to grade inside the Spirit, native. And using a 2K+ to controll the spirit is using an SDK. Kind of. If a native app can grade the “Kelvin” or “Exposure”, and a SDK-app can controll a slider that is called “Kelvin” or “Exposure”.. Isn’t that the same thing? I the beginning, conforming Red was a big issue, due to the reelname being longer (16digits) then what can fit in an EDL (8digits). But that seems to be supported a lot better now from most of the companies, I know that Resolve handles it good now, (and maybe others) There might still be an issue if you shoot multiple days that gives you duplicate TC and are planning to record out your “Telecine reel” on a tape. The Red-workflow might be easier if you keep it as data all the way. But of coarse there are was around it, like putting a slate on the tape between the different days, or use multiple tapes. When doing a job from Red I like to have it coming in as RedLog (gamma space) and RedSpace (colorSpace) for most stuff. That gives me a flat image and a nice color to it (I think), but if I have lets say a product that has a specific color that I need to match, I tend to get more real colors if I set the colorspace to Rec709, but I don’t like the overall look of that (but thats just my taste). The benefit her in grading from the r3d is that you can decide that on a shot-by-shot basis and change it as you wish, and Not having to decide on it during a convert the day before. Thanks (or due) to that the r3d-files are heavy compressed the don’t take up a lot of space or need a lot of bandwidth (you can probably work of a USB-drive in full res). Because of that I like to actually load All the footage onto my project (usually I get a timeline with 3-12hrs of material) and then load the edl, that way I can if needed check other takes and throw one in for the render if needed. There are a lot of “problems” with Red one might say, but a lot of project I’ve done would probably not have been shot at all if it wasn’t for Red. Unless shooting on DV, but that we all agree on is worth. A lot of the stuff looks good, and some even looks great. And with the current market a least I am forced to work more with Red whether I want or not. But I do like it if it is done right. I think we will all see a lot more Red coming in the future, but the good thing is; it can only look better :) disclaimer: I am not compensated in any way by RED BUT I am demoing at IBC now on the davinci Resolve. But I’m just telling my opinion/thoughts witch no one is paying me for. If you want, drop by the booth. /carl skaff From dean at siphi.tv Mon Sep 14 00:15:35 2009 From: dean at siphi.tv (Dean @ SiPhi) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:15:35 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Larry Barth In-Reply-To: <3C0E9BFB-E69F-4B27-810B-9D86C1C825E3@vta.com> Message-ID: <829BCB5D314D42469316710273CEADD9@pluto> To the family of Larry Barth and to Ken Chambliss: Having found myself in the 'other' Hollywood as an overwhelmed chief engineer, Larry expertly and kindly guided me through a tough startup at the Post Edge facility (formally VTA)where otherwise I would have fallen flat on my face. Larry was likely passed over for the promotion but always true to his character accepted this young upstart with a smile and a helping hand. Apparently Larry found his calling in Atlanta as VTA's chief engineer, a position he clearly deserved and thrived in. I will always remember Larry for, among many other things, being able to fix anything. And it stayed fixed. I sure will miss you, Larry. Dean Humphus -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ken Chambliss Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:38 PM To: rob at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Larry Barth Larry Barth, chief engineer of VTA Atlanta, passed away Friday afternoon after a year long bout with cancer. Some may remember Larry From dlt at earthlink.net Mon Sep 14 00:23:14 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:23:14 -0700 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options In-Reply-To: References: <4AAD334F.3060608@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4AAD7EE2.8060508@earthlink.net> alex black wrote: > * That CRI is not the primary goal, especially for bias lighting > * That 'facility lighting' should not be used for critical evaluation of physical objects (I agree of course) > * That 'facility lighting' need not necessarily be high CRI for evaluation reasons, but (this is me) is probably nice just for environmental quality. I agree with the points and further note that it is important to find a client task lighting solution that "works' regardless of the numbers. I have set up a room with wide spectrum fluorescents, the correct color temperature, diffusion and level and have found it to be quite uncomfortable. David Tosh Sierra Madre, CA From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 14 00:33:53 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:33:53 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Google Street View, Open Layers Maps for facilities Message-ID: <11C9410A-411B-4237-B74D-20DEA8D970E2@colorist.org> Am making my way through the coding of facility locations including Google Street View, on the TIG Facility Table at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable The following facilities are fully coded for these features: Alpha Dogs Shooters Inc./DIVE Presto!Digital Colourgrade CBS News NYC Final Frame The Orphanage New Hat Milagro Post I do still need photos of suite interiors, except for Milagro, New Hat, Norsk Smalfilm, CBS, and Shooters, which already have photos in the table. And need more facilities - though the table is editable by any TIG wiki user, it might be locked for some time during the day due to my own editing- so the pertinent data can be sent to me at the email below. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From carl at stopp.se Mon Sep 14 12:28:05 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:28:05 +0200 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set Message-ID: So here is an open question.... are you (being a davinci/descreet/filmlight/digitalvision/pandore/etc-colorist) starting to go out on the shooting sets to the on-set pre-grading? Do you see a future in the industry that we (colorists) start doing that more, or is it a job for Our assistants. Or is it up to the DoP/DiT/First AD/runner to take care of that? If we "let go" of that market do you see a risk in our jobs becoming less sought after? Feel free to comment on/around the subject. Just a wanted to see what other people think in different parts of the industry. /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 15 01:59:34 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:59:34 -0300 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Carl Skaff wrote: > are you (being a davinci/descreet/filmlight/digitalvision/pandore/ > etc-colorist) starting to go out on the shooting sets to the on-set > pre-grading? > Do you see a future in the industry that we (colorists) start doing > that more, or is it a job for Our assistants. Or is it up to the DoP/ > DiT/First AD/runner to take care of that? > > If we "let go" of that market do you see a risk in our jobs becoming > less sought after? To the first question one might have to narrow down the question as to format: long or short form, TV or cinema; as to market: North America, Europe/Africa, Asia, South America. I was talking to a major South American colorist a few days ago, and he articulated nicely something we all might notice: the banalization of color grading. From an artistic perspective it's been a trend over the last few years coincident with the rise of inexpensive software, cheap cameras, unskilled artists, in production and in post. Now that live production video cameras are so much better and in keeping with your first question Carl, I'd like to ask if it will ever be important that the dynamic range of a live signal be adjusted by a live colorist, and is there any such thing as a high dynamic range production camera? I just watched the final of ESPN's US Open Tennis coverage, and there were times during the tournament when I could envision masking, based on luminance, shape or chrominance, certain elements that were overloading the camera. I suppose this would mean having control at the camera's front end. -- Rob Lingelbach Colorist rob at colorist.org From cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net Tue Sep 15 11:54:31 2009 From: cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net (=?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYyBMZWpldW5l?=) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:54:31 +0200 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> References: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> Message-ID: <4AAF7267.4040408@free.fr> Well, this job already exists, it's the vision engineer (not sure if my translation from french is correct) and some are quite talented, some live shows (music concerts, operas, etc.) have pretty nice treatments. It's more difficult and considered as less important in sport, even if IMHO some programs could benefit from a more finished look. Then I'm a bit afraid of how it could impede on the spectacle, as overdone contrasty/blurred highlights/oversaturated looks are already the norm in trailers for big sport event, that would be awful to have that kind of processing done to the live stream. Maybe at some point it would be available as presets from the user remote control, as the ones I've seen on Bones yesterday (thanks Mr Eagles for the demo, I loved the Mexico look ;-) Then for onset stuff I believe previewing and maybe refining a look should be alright, but there is no much point in grading/setting a look, on a place where potentially a couple dozen paid people are waiting for you to work. I do believe in preparing the look in a proper environment using cam tests, with the senior colorist driving, set them as a format that can be used onset (separating calibration from colour correction information) and then get them back for dailies and when conforming, saving time on the DI. This way everybody agrees on the look, there is no consistency problem along the line and the senior colorist is not asked to redo what an assistant done overnight doing the dailies. My last presentations on the subject are available in the Download/Articles section of our website www.workflowers.net We have also set a plugin on Lustre that can use CDLs from SpeedGrade, 3cp or Truelight on-set and can create some for monitors such as the Cinetal Cinemage. Cedric Lejeune www.workflowers.net pipelines&workflows back from Amsterdam From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Sep 15 15:46:23 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:46:23 -0600 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C602875-B4B1-4BF8-ACA9-556851804AD1@prestodigital.ca> starting to go out on the shooting sets to the on-set pre-grading? Do you see a future in the industry that we (colorists) start doing that more, or is it a job for Our assistants. Or is it up to the DoP/ DiT/First AD/runner to take care of that? If we "let go" of that market do you see a risk in our jobs becoming less sought after? From experience over the past 5 years, no, and no. On-set is not in-suite. The two are almost incompatible in terms of needs, priorities, pace, almost a different kind of air to breathe. With the advent of acquisition formats that do not require on-set Ditting but instead send meta-data, combined with the insurance need to double-check/confirm data veracity, it is edging toward making sense to do a "dailies" pass in the same sense of a neg shoot. If you have a refined set of eyes and the judgement that has been honed over the years to use them, that will never go away. I get a sense of this with the Apple ProRes proxy codec -- that the concept of off- line is not obsolete, and someone needs to eyeball the footage in an undistracted environment and hand it off -- approved for use. A finals (finishing) colorist will review hundreds if not thousands of scenes in context day-to-day when grading a locked project. On- set is a totally different focus (locus?) and the time span is months, a couple of scenes a day, and you may not have the luxury of shuttling back and forth over a sequence -- unless the cut is progressing and you are trying to light/grade a scene into a match with the previously recorded angles... or you may discover that the work to this point is trash compared to what you're grade/ditting into "today"... Seems like a bit of a vicious circle where the buck never rests. There is a bigger danger in colorists overall limiting themselves to being one-trick ponies, instead of culturing an overall awareness (bordering on post supervision, with respect to the needs of compositing and format). The squeeze will be on in terms of widening the influence of editors (who now have access to the toolset) and compositors, who need to do more in matching their plates, with the result of the role of the colorist becoming a narrower slice of the workflow. This can be justified as a business case in the view of a project manager who wants to limit the number of links in the process web. So instead of complaining that other members of the team are encroaching on one's purview... as the saying goes.... "sauce for the goose..." But. If you want to go out to set... do it. There is no doubt that the function of grade/correction is changing, where would you want it to go? What do you want to do if you could take ownership of the role? Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Tue Sep 15 08:48:02 2009 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:48:02 +0100 Subject: [Tig] 6500k High CRI Lighting Options: Sulfur lamp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AAF46B2.8040108@filmlight.ltd.uk> Has anyone found or seen a sulfur lamp? I often need a steady smooth-spectrum light for my experiments, and nothing comes close to the steadiness of tungsten. Incandescents are inefficient and their power spectrum is more or less a straight line going to zero at about 380 nm. However, I usually find if I start off with enough incandescent light, I can filter it to get the balance I need. Not a great option for lighting rooms, but enough for my needs. I have a dichroic colour correction filter that gives a D65 colour match, but the spectrum match is not great. I have read about the sulphur lamp. This seems to have all the properties of an incandescent lamp - this nice smooth spectrum (if you don't get one of the ones made for greenhouses with boosted red), but hotter, with more violet, and with high efficiency. The only drawback seems to be you can only get monster kilowatt bulbs that are used for lighting stadiums and aircraft hangers. I have tried to buy one of these to experiment with, but no-one seems keen to sell. Are they used for set lighting? Projectors? The only article I could find that gave a spectrum was... http://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/2176?task=view Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 or 0409 224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 15 15:58:23 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:58:23 -0300 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: <4AAF7267.4040408@free.fr> References: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> <4AAF7267.4040408@free.fr> Message-ID: On Sep 15, 2009, at 7:54 AM, Cédric Lejeune wrote: > Well, > this job already exists, it's the vision engineer (not sure if my > translation from french is correct) and some are quite talented, > some live shows (music concerts, operas, etc.) have pretty nice > treatments. I should have been clearer, I was musing that it would be nice to have a grading system and a colorist at the controls during live broadcasts. I do know about video engineers and have worked with some very good ones over the years. The video engineer's is a high art, but as Steve Hullfish pointed out to me they generally don't have secondaries or tracking/matting/keying etc. The question arose when I saw the static out-of-stadium camera at Forest Hills (US Open) looking at the entrance; to see the people at night, the iris had to be opened up, which made the jumbotron just a big slab of blown-out white. being a locked-off camera, it would have been interesting to have HDR and/or a mask for the jumbo-tron, so that this 25% of the frame wouldn't be a blob. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach Colorist rob at colorist.org From steve at veralith.com Tue Sep 15 16:17:20 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:17:20 -0500 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: References: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> <4AAF7267.4040408@free.fr> Message-ID: And their have been a few live events where they've hooked up a da Vinci downstream of the switcher to "grade" the event live. I think someone on this list has a live Grammy broadcast to their credit, if I'm not mistaken. On Sep 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > I should have been clearer, I was musing that it would be nice to > have a grading system and a colorist at the controls during live > broadcasts. I do know about video engineers and have worked with > some very good ones over the years. The video engineer's is a high > art, but as Steve Hullfish pointed out to me they generally don't > have secondaries or tracking/matting/keying etc. > > The question arose when I saw the static out-of-stadium camera at > Forest Hills (US Open) looking at the entrance; to see the people at > night, the iris had to be opened up, which made the jumbotron just a > big slab of blown-out white. being a locked-off camera, it would From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Sep 15 16:30:46 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:30:46 -0600 Subject: [Tig] =?utf-8?q?=28no_subject=29?= Message-ID: <0936F382-B1BA-403C-BF7E-DB38705565D7@prestodigital.ca> I moonlighted for 6 years at BC Place Stadium in Vancouver doing exactly this -- wrangling 4 cameras plus support tech for the rest of the scoreboard presentation. It was a mix of Hitachi FP21's and Z31's, and Canon/Fujinon lenses. There were almost bigger differences in the lenses themselves. The earlier vintage 21's were very straightforward EFP cameras with analog controls, but the Z31's were starting to edge into the area of secondary masking. This raised the interesting question regarding making the artificial turf under mercury vapor light look really good (which could not be matched on the 21s) or leave it alone and match to the inferior/obsolete cameras. Nevertheless it was all good fun riding the exposure and rebooting the D88 character generator all at the same time. In those days it was guerrilla tactics. Camera CCUs these days are very sophisticated... just not particularly suitable for a lot of sober second thought and revisiting the scene over and over.... its LIVE! and those things(trackers and stuff) just don't work unless you've got crystal balls instead of the steel ones that are mandatory for the job. CF: this job already exists, it's the vision engineer (not sure if my translation from french is correct) and some are quite talented, some live shows (music concerts, operas, etc.) have pretty nice treatments. RL: I should have been clearer, I was musing that it would be nice to have a grading system and a colorist at the controls during live broadcasts. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From pagefrakes at yahoo.com Tue Sep 15 23:11:57 2009 From: pagefrakes at yahoo.com (Page Frakes) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] ?most popular film stock used on feature films today? Message-ID: <665539.60629.qm@web38206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi- What's the most popular stock is right now for features? Or maybe the top 3... page tippett studio From mfw at musictrax.com Wed Sep 16 01:56:44 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:56:44 -0700 Subject: [Tig] ?most popular film stock used on feature films today? In-Reply-To: <665539.60629.qm@web38206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9/15/09 3:11 PM, "Page Frakes" wrote: > Hi- What's the most popular stock is right now for features? Or maybe > the top 3... >------------------------------------------------------------< My guesses would be Kodak 5219 (500 ASA) for night exteriors, and Kodak 5205 (250 ASA) for daylight exteriors. I have sometimes seen DPs choose the finer-grain 5212 for day exteriors (100 ASA), but it really needs a lot of light to look good, and black detail can fall off dramatically if there isn't enough fill. The newer Vision3 stocks, like 5207 (250 daylight), are also very good. 5218 was the staple for TV shows for a long time, but has been discontinued and now replaced by 5219. Assuming you're trying to do pin-reg scans of camera negative for VFX, my experience is that you have to have one setting per film stock, and often some slight adjustments in RGB balance to get consistent, optimum results. My belief is that there isn't a "one size fits all" setting that will work well for everything, but not everyone agrees. And different scanners will achieve very different results. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From systems-news at s-s-c.org Wed Sep 16 09:28:27 2009 From: systems-news at s-s-c.org (Mirko I.) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:28:27 +0200 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading Message-ID: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> Does anybody on the list have input concerning the best approach for a transfer from vfx to grading, with a background like mine (currently being a flame-artist) in the current state of the colorist-business. Does it make sense to "choose" a grading-system / -software (at the beginning of a colorists career)? Would it be a good idea to start with Lustre (because of similarities to Flame / Smoke), or with Apple COLOR? cheers, Mirko Dipl. Film- & TV-Designer --------------------------------------------- WWW | s-s-c.org From systems-news at s-s-c.org Wed Sep 16 09:22:50 2009 From: systems-news at s-s-c.org (Mirko I.) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:22:50 +0200 Subject: [Tig] consistency of color regardless of format after grading Message-ID: <4AB0A05A.1040102@s-s-c.org> hi there, what's the approach of the members of this list to make sure a color grading is consistent through different formats after the grading process.. I guess it's easier if you're grading a project for one format, e.g. a commercial in SD or HD for TV-Broadcast.. but isn't it a different story if e.g. you're grading a short or feature with a cinematic release (printed on film and / or Digital Cinema), a Trailer that is shown online, a release on DVD / Bluray and a TV-Broadcast? cheers, Mirko Dipl. Film- & TV-Designer --------------------------------------------- WWW | s-s-c.org From systems-news at s-s-c.org Wed Sep 16 09:12:19 2009 From: systems-news at s-s-c.org (Mirko I.) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:12:19 +0200 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: References: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> <4AAF7267.4040408@free.fr> Message-ID: <4AB09DE3.7060508@s-s-c.org> concerning color correction on live broadcasts, I remember an article about a concert (or an MTV show?) quite a while ago, where there was live color correction including mattes for either the broadcast signal or the video screens at the concert as part of the broadcast.. I'm not sure though if that could have been "prepared" material (from an earlier performance of the artists with added color correction etc.) on the subject of grading on-set.. I think it makes more sense to include colorists into the previz-process.. so on-set either the DOP or a Postproduction-Supervisor knows what kind of material should be shot.. Geoff Boyle talked about an interesting workflow (for a feature-lengt project) in one of his presentations.. (after having set the tone of a shoot with a mood-board) at night between shooting, he graded the dailies, printed them out on film (or foto-material ?) and put them into a book that very quickly becomes some kind of on-set style-guide.. using such a process leaves the necessity to have calibrated monitors etc. to (previz and) postproduction.. cheers, Mirko Dipl. Film- & TV-Designer --------------------------------------------- WWW | s-s-c.org From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Sep 16 10:02:55 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:02:55 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Pacific Title and Art Studio goes on the block... Message-ID: <537BF88D-5B37-44B8-BDD4-50CECE734AC2@tedlangdell.com> Just spotted a blurb about Pacific Title and Art Studio being auctioned on Tuesday, Sept. 22. http://greatamerican.com/GAGAuction/Auctions/AuctionDetails.aspx?Id=428 Northlight scanners and Arrilasers among the items. The company went into receivership in June after more than 90 years in operation. This makes a west coast auction to balance out the VidiPax liquidation of a massive collection of VTR's, a Rank MkIII/daVinci 888, and Prista film cleaner happening this week. http://www.go-dove.com/auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?auctionID=13507 Ted No connection to the companies or auctioneers involved. Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Skype: TedLangdell tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Sep 16 10:08:48 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:08:48 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Grant Petty discusses daVinci's future in Creative Cow interview Message-ID: <808863D8-A1B4-485E-9C87-D063E0254310@tedlangdell.com> Petty says: My feeling is, your next meal should come from the thing you did today. Just like our customers do. If you're in a telecine suite and your clients walk out unhappy, they're not going to come back. I think it should be the same for a manufacturing company. It’s about blowing people's minds with exciting ideas. If we don't have that culture because we get hooked on a bunch of support contracts for customers that we've already got, I think ultimately the customers just don't win. Read more at: http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/blackmagic-davinci-and-what-it-means Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Skype: TedLangdell tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 16 16:12:26 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:12:26 -0300 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> References: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> Message-ID: <2C33E27D-C4AB-4948-96CA-B9393DB61869@colorist.org> On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:28 AM, Mirko I. wrote: > Does anybody on the list have input concerning the best approach for a > transfer from vfx to grading, with a background like mine (currently > being > a flame-artist) in the current state of the colorist-business. We've talked a little about this in the past, and there's a short compilation of a 2007 thread with advice from Martin Parsons at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Career_Paths:_from_VFX_to_grading but a lot has happened in the last 2 years so it would definitely be worth revisiting. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From mbitetti at aol.com Wed Sep 16 16:27:18 2009 From: mbitetti at aol.com (mbitetti at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:27:18 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Grant Petty discusses daVinci's future in Creative Cow interview In-Reply-To: <808863D8-A1B4-485E-9C87-D063E0254310@tedlangdell.com> References: <808863D8-A1B4-485E-9C87-D063E0254310@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <8CC04F94FF40A30-4104-3E33@webmail-d060.sysops.aol.com> WOW! I've got to read the whole thing, but, sorry to all, I can't help but shouting: WOW! first. Michael Bitetti Un-Employed Engineer, Colorist, Video Engineer, Etc. (wondering where the hell this is all going). From rpunger at mac.com Wed Sep 16 17:07:28 2009 From: rpunger at mac.com (richard unger) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:07:28 -0400 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <2C33E27D-C4AB-4948-96CA-B9393DB61869@colorist.org> References: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> <2C33E27D-C4AB-4948-96CA-B9393DB61869@colorist.org> Message-ID: <46617815-F03B-45B6-8D28-FBB28B68973E@mac.com> I agree a lot has happened in the last 2 years. And I see more career paths in finishing, color, vfx becoming less defined by just one talent. The melding of skills are creating new approaches to image design creativity. As an example I have been a Colorist for 20 years, learning my trade through thrill and disappointment. And I mostly worked on platforms that did one thing "Color" and these boxes are good at it. 3 years ago I took my color skills and applied them to a box that could finish, vfx, comp, title, design and color my specialty. Now I am a colorist who enjoys finishing, comping, and design work, all complimenting with color. It is a thrill for me to comp a sky replacement and color it in context. Or creating dramatic day for night looks , comping and grading foregrounds and backgrounds. So for a Flame vfx person making a move into color I encourage it. And again learn color through by getting your hands on the basic functions all color graders do, and play. It would be great if we crossed paths in the middle sometime. Good luck and great images. Rick Unger Ringside Creative 248-548-2500 main 313-401-1301 cell http://web.mac.com/rpunger On Sep 16, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2031 subscribers in September 2009 > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 > ==== > > > > On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:28 AM, Mirko I. wrote: > >> Does anybody on the list have input concerning the best approach >> for a >> transfer from vfx to grading, with a background like mine >> (currently being >> a flame-artist) in the current state of the colorist-business. > > > We've talked a little about this in the past, and there's a short > compilation of a > 2007 thread with advice from Martin Parsons at > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/ > Career_Paths:_from_VFX_to_grading > > but a lot has happened in the last 2 years so it would definitely > be worth revisiting. > > -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin > rob at colorist.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From jfmann at optimum.net Wed Sep 16 19:14:51 2009 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:14:51 -0400 Subject: [Tig] ?most popular film stock used on feature films today? In-Reply-To: <665539.60629.qm@web38206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <665539.60629.qm@web38206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003601ca36f9$9913f8e0$cb3beaa0$@net> Hi Page, For me here in NY ....I have to say Kodak 5219. I have had DP's shoot a whole features with just this one stock. Tungsten balanced and 500IE gives lots of reach into the toe at night. Take it out in the sunshine with an 85 filter and you have 320IE, for those shadowy alley ways. And it will be stunning. Jim Jim Mann Freelance Colorist http://colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann C.516-250-0909 colorist444 at hotmail.com Page: wrote: Hi- What's the most popular stock is right now for features? Or maybe the top 3... page tippett studio _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 16 20:21:43 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:21:43 -0300 Subject: [Tig] to: TIG Digest recipients Message-ID: <15B2D545-4847-4BCF-810C-DC779DADD147@colorist.org> For those who are receiving the TIG mailinglist as a digest: there are funny things going on in terms of character encoding, that I'm attempting to resolve. The immediate mode (as opposed to digest mode) isn't affected, so anyone in digest mode is advised to move to immediate mode temporarily - if you don't know how to do this just send a message to me and I'll do it for you. thanks for your patience. and thanks to Marco Fantino for pointing out the problem. Rob TIG admin-founder -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 16 20:52:38 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:52:38 -0300 Subject: [Tig] any colorist Message-ID: Any Colorist who wants to feature his/her work on the TIG - which generates a #1 ranking on Google- can send me their work ( a msg to me will engender reply with instrux) http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 http://reels.colorist.org Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG Admin Founder rob at colorist.org From cnoellert at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 22:09:35 2009 From: cnoellert at gmail.com (Christopher Noellert) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:09:35 -0700 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: <4AB09DE3.7060508@s-s-c.org> References: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> <4AAF7267.4040408@free.fr> <4AB09DE3.7060508@s-s-c.org> Message-ID: As an interesting sideline to this discussion those of you who haven't heard the Peter Doyle podcast from FXguide should check it out. http://www.fxguide.com/qt/1442/peter-doyle-on-complex-feature-film-grading Best, Chris -- PublicVFX Chris Noellert : VFX Artist 69 Market Street, Venice, CA, 90291 310.450.6969 o 310.450.6999 f 310.699.2151 c chris at publicvfx.com aim: chris.noellert http://www.publicvfx.com On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:12 AM, Mirko I. wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2031 subscribers in September 2009 > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS09 > ==== > > > concerning color correction on live broadcasts, I remember an > article about a > concert (or an MTV show?) quite a while ago, where there was live > color > correction including mattes for either the broadcast signal or the > video screens > at the concert as part of the broadcast.. I'm not sure though if > that could have > been "prepared" material (from an earlier performance of the artists > with added > color correction etc.) > > on the subject of grading on-set.. I think it makes more sense to > include colorists > into the previz-process.. so on-set either the DOP or a > Postproduction-Supervisor > knows what kind of material should be shot.. Geoff Boyle talked > about an interesting > workflow (for a feature-lengt project) in one of his presentations.. > (after having set > the tone of a shoot with a mood-board) at night between shooting, he > graded the > dailies, printed them out on film (or foto-material ?) and put them > into a book that > very quickly becomes some kind of on-set style-guide.. using such a > process leaves > the necessity to have calibrated monitors etc. to (previz and) > postproduction.. > > cheers, > > Mirko > Dipl. Film- & TV-Designer > --------------------------------------------- > WWW | s-s-c.org > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 16 22:10:08 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:10:08 -0300 Subject: [Tig] purity, art. Message-ID: <93169A80-EC25-4CA1-9A34-799B57793046@colorist.org> so, to continue the series, Banalizacão da marcação de luz. (credit- Gigio Pelosi) Or in english, the 'banalization of grading.' But here it is explained in terms of music. Many contemporary guitarists know that the Fender Statocaster is the guitar of reference. Not to digress into Gibson et al. vs. Fender, but the early Clapton could serve as reference for an art that could have been lost thereafter. So in music, so in images. For the RAW Clapton, see 1966 Bluesbreakers with John Mayall: http://www.colorist.org/jim-roy/little_girl_1966.mp3 (rare BBC recording) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jeff.olm at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 22:34:36 2009 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:34:36 -0700 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> References: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> Message-ID: <43298eae0909161434obc1f14x773d9b9c9b9109d1@mail.gmail.com> Mirko asked > Does anybody on the list have input concerning the best approach for a > transfer from vfx to grading, with a background like mine (currently being > a flame-artist) in the current state of the colorist-business. > > Does it make sense to "choose" a grading-system / -software (at the > beginning of a colorists career)? > Would it be a good idea to start with Lustre (because of similarities to > Flame / Smoke), or with Apple COLOR? Jeff O. relied, Mirko, I would start with Lustre because of your Autodesk tool experience and it's workflow with Smoke. Lustre software can run on the same HP8600 or Z800 as the Smoke and Flame. Personally I have found it handy to get familiar with all the software systems so you can be flexible during the initial colorist career ramp-up. My suggestion is start with Lustre then take a look at Pablo because it also has traditional Flame style compositing tools. Sit down and get demo's at the local offices or resellers of Baselight, Scratch, Nucoda, Iridas software. Let the DaVinci guys transitioning off the 2K run the Resolves. NAB and IBC are great to hit these packages all in a few days. I transitioned from Flame Artist doing features at Imageworks to Lustre demo artist with Autodesk in 2003 before all the above systems existed. Doing demos for resellers is another option to get great training on the box and to get know where the machines are in the market. Their is sometimes quite a bit of editing involved in DI projects so your Flame experience will benefit you over others that have not had to eye match and over-cut a project like you may have. Find out where the facilities and machines are in your market. Hopefully someone will take you under their wing. barter that you will roto for them maybe? Then start with film and grad school projects to get some chops problem solving and doing song and dance with clients. It's a great time to get into software color correction and all the tools are maturing and have their plus and minus's. Autodesk has a ton of training videos on their site their is also something called the Autodesk Area which can help you get started. Hope that helps. good luck, Jeff Olm Digital Colorist Dreamworks Animation LA, CA From cnoellert at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 00:00:32 2009 From: cnoellert at gmail.com (Christopher Noellert) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:00:32 -0700 Subject: [Tig] grading On-set In-Reply-To: References: <2585AB49-D04A-48D8-A0F6-546AC392A0DA@colorist.org> <4AAF7267.4040408@free.fr> <4AB09DE3.7060508@s-s-c.org> Message-ID: <7B107DD7-385C-474F-A7C5-BB697BE58685@gmail.com> http://www.fxguide.com/modules/fxpodcast/files/fxg-090904-Harry-Potter.mp3 Wil give you the mp3 Rob. Best, Chris -- PublicVFX Chris Noellert : VFX Artist 69 Market Street, Venice, CA, 90291 310.450.6969 o 310.450.6999 f 310.699.2151 c chris at publicvfx.com aim: chris.noellert http://www.publicvfx.com On Sep 16, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > On Sep 16, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Christopher Noellert wrote: > >> As an interesting sideline to this discussion those of you who >> haven't heard the Peter Doyle podcast from FXguide should check it >> out. >> >> http://www.fxguide.com/qt/1442/peter-doyle-on-complex-feature-film-grading > > > > i haven't been able yet to find the original information. > > so we have podcast, webcast, website, maiinglist, ... > where will it ever end (or be included) > > > -- Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org > > > > > > > > > > From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Sep 17 08:37:00 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:37:00 -0700 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <46617815-F03B-45B6-8D28-FBB28B68973E@mac.com> References: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> <2C33E27D-C4AB-4948-96CA-B9393DB61869@colorist.org> <46617815-F03B-45B6-8D28-FBB28B68973E@mac.com> Message-ID: <95CD350D-509E-40BB-84C1-4B26C1A95C1C@tedlangdell.com> On Sep 16, 2009, at 9:07 AM, richard unger wrote: > and play. Hear! Hear! Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Skype: TedLangdell tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From systems-news at s-s-c.org Thu Sep 17 12:58:46 2009 From: systems-news at s-s-c.org (Mirko I.) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:58:46 +0200 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <43298eae0909161434obc1f14x773d9b9c9b9109d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> <43298eae0909161434obc1f14x773d9b9c9b9109d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB22476.7030507@s-s-c.org> Thx very much for the input! I already enjoyed a basic training on Lustre for two days, looking forward to getting a more in-depth training from Cedric.. My knowledge of Speedgrade is even more basic, yet.. Currently I work with Flame but have been working with smoke already, quite a while back.. even before that I worked with edit* (from discreet) and was a demo-artist for that product.. the first time I worked with discreet-products (so far I've used edit, flame, vapour, frost, smoke) was in 1999.. since then I broadened my horizon with work in the 3D department (with Maya) and virtual studio (in between I studied design).. Working in Vienna at the moment.. (I moved here from germany at the beginning of 2009).. I don't seem to find myself in the right place for Lustre (concerning jobs / doing demos).. as there are only four companies (with several licences each) in germany using Lustre, as far as I know.. As I'm not attached to Vienna.. does someone on the list know better places to start working with Lustre? Getting familiar with all the different systems might be easier after being familiar with one grading system and the grading process / workflow in general!? Autodesk doesn't seem to know yet how to proceed with the systems user community.. as they still have the flame-/..-news and try to establish sth similar on the area.. but also some information is only posted on facebook/twitter.. cheers, Mirko From carl at stopp.se Thu Sep 17 06:11:04 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:11:04 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? Message-ID: Hi all Here is a thread-starter for you: What tools do you wish you had in your colorcoretor? What do you wish you could do in your system? Whats the number one thing missing? At NAB/IBC we only hear what stuff it CAN do, never what it can't. So I thought we'll share among ourself what our stuff are mising. Like, I wish my Resolve had better editor-funktions. Or my Luster is crap at XXX.... /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From systems-news at s-s-c.org Thu Sep 17 11:37:54 2009 From: systems-news at s-s-c.org (Mirko I.) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:37:54 +0200 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <46617815-F03B-45B6-8D28-FBB28B68973E@mac.com> References: <4AB0A1AB.9070408@s-s-c.org> <2C33E27D-C4AB-4948-96CA-B9393DB61869@colorist.org> <46617815-F03B-45B6-8D28-FBB28B68973E@mac.com> Message-ID: <4AB21182.7060107@s-s-c.org> there definitely has been a lot going on in the last couple of years, with the development in color-grading software.. and besides other stuff, client behaviour / demand of course.. sometimes the client wants color grading (with a lot of masks, layers..) when working with Flame.. a friend of mine is a colorist and sometimes he's asked to do compositing in the grading suite.. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on more color-dedicated projects and play.. having studied design at two universities (one being focused on art and the other one being focused on film), while working with flame, smoke etc., I hope I'm familiar with the basics of color though.. Crossing paths between vfx and grading should make sense, maybe even being able to optimize the workflow (in the digital age there's just too much chances of duplicating data and spending time with transfering / conforming it). Hopefully the grading systems won't start a second wave of "one system can do it all", like a few years back when editing, compositing, 3D, .. was tried to put in one box.. Having the possibility to comp a couple of layers (even if it's only a layout) on a grading system and vice versa, if needed occassionally, is another story of course.. greetings from vienna, Mirko From systems-news at s-s-c.org Thu Sep 17 12:43:09 2009 From: systems-news at s-s-c.org (Mirko I.) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:43:09 +0200 Subject: [Tig] consistency of color regardless of format after grading In-Reply-To: <1098434311.180791253112624989.JavaMail.root@spinal.ghostvfx.local> References: <1098434311.180791253112624989.JavaMail.root@spinal.ghostvfx.local> Message-ID: <4AB220CD.5030005@s-s-c.org> hi Sascha, thanks for your reply. Nice site, btw! Did you do the flash-programming? After class1, projector and plasma have been calibrated, do you only use your color grading tools to adjust the look or does it happen that further calibration is needed for a project to work? So the process of generating different delivery formats is your job as a colorist and not a job for the technical staff (which helps make the color be consistent)? Does the simulation (with LUTs) generally work out or do you have to adjust when you finally see it on the respective device? Concerning DCI.. it seems as each company has to develop their own pipeline / process on making sure it looks right in cinemas, up to now.. as the standards have only just arrived and there's no standard way to do it (as before with 35mm etc.)!? greetings from vienna, Mirko From blumediaprojekt at nerdshack.com Thu Sep 17 16:55:25 2009 From: blumediaprojekt at nerdshack.com (R. Adam Berk) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:55:25 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <227A8C99-0001-4AC4-9F93-7F7BD1D4E661@nerdshack.com> Oh man do I wish I had the Lustre shape tracker in Smoke and Flame. Adam Berk Creative Technology Smoke/Flame artist and C>me development team T. +13303103950 E. adam.berk at creativetechnology.com From kevs at finalcolor.com Fri Sep 18 00:28:57 2009 From: kevs at finalcolor.com (kevs at finalcolor.com) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:28:57 -0400 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading Message-ID: <380-220099417232857987@M2W043.mail2web.com> In addition to the operations training from the manufacturers you might also be interested in the ICA classes, some of which are system independent and aimed at cross training and intermediate advancement The next "colorist strategies" classes are October 13-15 in Berlin and Nov 7-9 in Los Angeles. These and all other ICA classes are announced on the TIG calender (http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main) In Colorist Strategies I will cover some color theory as it applies to perception and visual response, image analysis, color tool comparison, grading strategies and sessioin management. Full details are at www.colorist.com Disclaimer; I am a freelance colorist, co-founder of the ICA and I am teaching these classes, so I have a financial interest in them. Happy Coloring Kevin Mirko asked > Does anybody on the list have input concerning the best approach for a > transfer from vfx to grading, with a background like mine (currently being > a flame-artist) in the current state of the colorist-business. From cnoellert at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 01:01:45 2009 From: cnoellert at gmail.com (Christopher Noellert) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:01:45 -0700 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <380-220099417232857987@M2W043.mail2web.com> References: <380-220099417232857987@M2W043.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <32373937-60F6-4B88-8694-D2071487A54C@gmail.com> Kevin, This is a list for discussion of telecine and color correction techniques and the like. When I go to www.colorist.com I see: • Carlton Hair Salons Experience Excellence with Carlton! Get a coupon for 50% off color here www.CarltonHairInternational.com • Hair Salon Websites Hair Salon Website Design Hair Salon Web Development www.salonbuilder.com • Lux SalonSpa AVEDA Award winning hair design and color Get a free $40 Gift Card www.LuxSalon.com • Memphis Hair Salon Memphis Local Businesses Are Easier to Find on Bing-the Decision Engine www.bing.com/Local • Phoenix Hair Extension Salon Phoenix hairpieces and wigs. Find local businesses on DexKnows. www.DexKnows.com • Mobile Beauty Specialists Affordable Beauticians Call Today 1-888-Fantastic www.ServiceFantastic.com • 1/2 Price Hair Extensions Featured on MTV! Long hair in 1hour with no damage. Call for free appt www.AddictedToHair.com • Airbrush Tanning Salon Beverly Hills Airbrush Tanning Spa The absolute best in Los Angeles www.sunlessstudio.com • Looking For Hair Color? Garnier Nutrisse Is In Stock! Many Colors & Low Prices, Buy Today www.NationwideCampus.com Perhaps, alt.hair.color would be more appropriate ;-) Best, Chris -- PublicVFX Chris Noellert : VFX Artist 69 Market Street, Venice, CA, 90291 310.450.6969 o 310.450.6999 f 310.699.2151 c chris at publicvfx.com aim: chris.noellert http://www.publicvfx.com From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Fri Sep 18 02:00:43 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:00:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] GraphicsMagick 1.3.7 Released Message-ID: Today GraphicsMagick 1.3.7 is released. GraphicsMagick is free open source image processing and conversion software which supports formats like DPX, Cineon, TIFF, JPEG, BMP, PNG and many more. Read about GraphicsMagick at http://www.graphicsmagick.org/ and read about the 1.3.7 release at http://www.graphicsmagick.org/1.3/NEWS.html. Thanks, Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From enigma at turingstudio.com Fri Sep 18 01:58:48 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:58:48 -0700 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <32373937-60F6-4B88-8694-D2071487A54C@gmail.com> References: <380-220099417232857987@M2W043.mail2web.com> <32373937-60F6-4B88-8694-D2071487A54C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6C0EA278-5F73-400D-BD7F-C8E7F50C0A1D@turingstudio.com> don't forget tanning! haha, yeah it's a parked domain. kevin, did you mean colorist.org? ;) _alex > This is a list for discussion of telecine and color correction > techniques and the like. When I go to www.colorist.com I see: > • Airbrush Tanning Salon > Beverly Hills Airbrush Tanning Spa The absolute best in Los Angeles > www.sunlessstudio.com > • Looking For Hair Color? > Garnier Nutrisse Is In Stock! Many Colors & Low Prices, Buy Today > www.NationwideCampus.com > > Perhaps, alt.hair.color would be more appropriate ;-) > > > Best, > Chris -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / office root at turingstudio.com From david.catt at filmsys.com Fri Sep 18 02:55:17 2009 From: david.catt at filmsys.com (David Catt) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:55:17 -0400 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <32373937-60F6-4B88-8694-D2071487A54C@gmail.com> References: <380-220099417232857987@M2W043.mail2web.com> <32373937-60F6-4B88-8694-D2071487A54C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB2E885.5020200@filmsys.com> Hi Chris, Try http://www.icolorist.com/ David Catt Film Systems From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 18 03:02:56 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:02:56 -0300 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: <6C0EA278-5F73-400D-BD7F-C8E7F50C0A1D@turingstudio.com> References: <380-220099417232857987@M2W043.mail2web.com> <32373937-60F6-4B88-8694-D2071487A54C@gmail.com> <6C0EA278-5F73-400D-BD7F-C8E7F50C0A1D@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:58 PM, alex black wrote: > don't forget tanning! Yes, the process of color grading is not unlike that of tanning leather. One must soak, lime, unhair, flesh, split, frize, depickle, and crust the image, and then when rendering, continue with sammying, shaving, fatliquoring, stuffing, stripping, fixing, and buffing. Compression artists are familiar with all these terms. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From kevs at finalcolor.com Fri Sep 18 06:36:29 2009 From: kevs at finalcolor.com (kevs at finalcolor.com) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:36:29 -0400 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading Message-ID: <380-22009951853629228@M2W042.mail2web.com> Sorry for the typo! David has the correct domain http://www.icolorist.com Any search for the International Colorist Academy should also work. sorry to disappoint those who are interested in hair and tanning products - I have no hair of my own and the nearest I have ever come to hair dressing was the grading of some rather nice hair commercials in Thailand. Only those who are interested in telecine and color correction should consider the ICA. Happy Coloring Kevin Original Message: ----------------- From: Christopher Noellert cnoellert at gmail.com Kevin, This is a list for discussion of telecine and color correction -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From systems-news at s-s-c.org Fri Sep 18 10:22:38 2009 From: systems-news at s-s-c.org (Mirko I.) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:22:38 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Link to Lustre- / Color-Grading-Workflow @ IBC 09 Message-ID: <4AB3515E.4080806@s-s-c.org> here's a link (click on "Punch Guest Presentation of Autodesk Lustre – IBC 2009") to a Lustre-presentation from Andre Froelian (trying to play the second part gets me an error message, I hope that's resolved soon): http://area.autodesk.com/ibc2009?ondemand There are other presentations covering grading workflow (with Autodesk products) like "Concurrent Grading and Visual Effects Finishing - IBC 2009" on the same page. I'm not affiliated with Autodesk cheers, M. From adrian at autotv.co.uk Fri Sep 18 12:10:36 2009 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:10:36 +0100 Subject: [Tig] vfx to grading In-Reply-To: References: <380-220099417232857987@M2W043.mail2web.com> <32373937-60F6-4B88-8694-D2071487A54C@gmail.com> <6C0EA278-5F73-400D-BD7F-C8E7F50C0A1D@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: On 18 Sep 2009, at 03:02, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > and then when > rendering, continue with sammying, shaving, fatliquoring, stuffing, > stripping, fixing, > and buffing. Compression artists are familiar with all these terms. > > > -- Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org Too true... -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION 35 BEDFORDBURY LONDON WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 18 22:58:18 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:58:18 -0300 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? Message-ID: Remember when Faroudja encoders were all the rage? And then, they started appearing in high-line consumer televisions. I wonder, if BMD might have the idea that we can expect a DaVinci module in the latest monitors, at first professional grade, then trickle down- where the real money is- into prosumer sets. LUTs for everyone. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From enigma at turingstudio.com Fri Sep 18 23:05:48 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:05:48 -0700 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07E1BCF2-E7BF-4C76-B4D9-943E65A14212@turingstudio.com> I don't think there's the same need for color processing in consumer products (even high end ones) as there is for format conversion/motion compensation/etc. Most of the stuff people are seeing is 601 or 709 and has been prepped in or for those colorspaces. Where a "conversion" capability makes sense and is salable to a high end consumer, I don't think a color box is. What *WOULD* be cool is integration of cheap (uh, good) spectrophotometers in virtually displays. Calibration should not be something the user needs to know about or care about - or at worst they should know they can attach the little thingy and press calibrate and the color will be perfect on their TV. I've been in sooooooo many high end installs that looked like crap because none of the equipment had been set up properly. $0.02 > Faroudja -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / office root at turingstudio.com From sklein54 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 18 23:22:55 2009 From: sklein54 at earthlink.net (sklein54 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? Message-ID: <9849431.1253312575453.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Dont know if the garden-variety consumer is ready for toggling dissolves and installing window templates 2 shots back ;-) From rob at colorist.org Sat Sep 19 00:45:03 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:45:03 -0300 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? In-Reply-To: <07E1BCF2-E7BF-4C76-B4D9-943E65A14212@turingstudio.com> References: <07E1BCF2-E7BF-4C76-B4D9-943E65A14212@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: <0518BCD8-63C4-4FCC-A2DC-CAE0D464782C@colorist.org> On Sep 18, 2009, at 7:05 PM, alex black wrote: > Where a "conversion" capability makes sense and is salable to a high > end consumer, I don't think a color box is. I'm sure you're right about conversion capability, but for color I was envisioning a much better set of controls that would be somewhat automated, and included on a card inside the monitor. Banalization of grading taken to its logical conclusion. Each telecast could include different Grading List Channels activated depending on the geocode of the destination receiver. Actually since in some countries the idea of Power Windows as the all- encompassing vignette or massive Portholing is applied to everything, those countries without it can be issued a Non-Occasional Power Window, consisting of a doughnut ND gel with density tapering for preset screen sizes. > What *WOULD* be cool is integration of cheap (uh, good) > spectrophotometers in virtually displays. Calibration should not be > something the user needs to know about or care about - or at worst > they should know they can attach the little thingy and press > calibrate and the color will be perfect on their TV. I've been in > sooooooo many high end installs that looked like crap because none > of the equipment had been set up properly. That would be cool, though what is one manufacturer's calibration for a particular model wouldn't translate around the market, necessarily. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From enigma at turingstudio.com Sat Sep 19 00:58:41 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:58:41 -0700 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? In-Reply-To: <0518BCD8-63C4-4FCC-A2DC-CAE0D464782C@colorist.org> References: <07E1BCF2-E7BF-4C76-B4D9-943E65A14212@turingstudio.com> <0518BCD8-63C4-4FCC-A2DC-CAE0D464782C@colorist.org> Message-ID: <4C0E6F3D-99DF-400B-8780-243794B7BE67@turingstudio.com> > That would be cool, though what is one manufacturer's calibration > for a particular model wouldn't translate around the market, > necessarily. Oh, no I mean resident spectrophotometer which is physically part of the display. So the display self-calibrates. _a -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / office root at turingstudio.com From ken at flight4.org Sat Sep 19 02:16:26 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:16:26 -0300 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38A373901AD94241AF8EFFA3ABEDE2C6@FLIGHT4> Why stop there? Now that there are little tv screens in magazines... Just slap a daVinci in a triple fold out!!! Disclaimer... I sometimes read magazines... Ken Ken Robinson -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach I wonder, if BMD might have the idea that we can expect a DaVinci module in the latest monitors, at first professional grade, then trickle down- where the real money is- into prosumer sets. LUTs for everyone. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Sat Sep 19 04:26:15 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:26:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? In-Reply-To: <07E1BCF2-E7BF-4C76-B4D9-943E65A14212@turingstudio.com> References: <07E1BCF2-E7BF-4C76-B4D9-943E65A14212@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Sep 2009, alex black wrote: > Where a "conversion" capability makes sense and is salable to a high end > consumer, I don't think a color box is. Yes. It is not that users don't desire good color. The problem is that display device interfaces are still broadly 8 bit so adjusting the color out side of the device simply creates a bad image. Even those claiming support for more bits probably don't really support it (accept != support). > What *WOULD* be cool is integration of cheap (uh, good) spectrophotometers in > virtually displays. Calibration should not be something the user needs to Yes. Given typical viewing environments (dark/bright) it would be nice if this could be done in a few seconds any time of the day. Rear projection sets could measure their results without the user being aware of the measurement device. The only problem is that rear projection is becoming quite rare these days since all the stores are selling flat panels. Flat panels are sexy and rear projection is not. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From ken at flight4.org Sat Sep 19 12:55:36 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:55:36 -0300 Subject: [Tig] DaVinci module in every TV? In-Reply-To: <0518BCD8-63C4-4FCC-A2DC-CAE0D464782C@colorist.org> References: <07E1BCF2-E7BF-4C76-B4D9-943E65A14212@turingstudio.com> <0518BCD8-63C4-4FCC-A2DC-CAE0D464782C@colorist.org> Message-ID: <0D3653BD019A4976A28FDA45F3860F28@FLIGHT4> Reference for my last comment.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8211209.stm Ken Ken Robinson From screenwarmer at cox.net Sun Sep 20 18:58:11 2009 From: screenwarmer at cox.net (Rich Montez) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:58:11 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090920135811.RH4SK.275096.imail@fed1rmwml32> >>>---- Carl Skaff wrote: >>>At NAB/IBC we only hear what stuff it CAN do, never what it can't. Hi Carl, Try doing demo's for a day. Then you're sure to hear all the things it can't do:) Rich Montez From xthrob at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 21:21:02 2009 From: xthrob at gmail.com (throb - Robert Nederhorst) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:21:02 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7b08c40a0909201321r58f65a77xc0ba2a3a68d86e9a@mail.gmail.com> in scratch want temperature controls which i have in nuke. so simple. also want a nice glow tool, which could work on darks and/or lights. i also want their "paint" node to work properly instead of me wanting to destroy it with anger every time i throw it in the workflow. rob throb | vfx | http://throb.net On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Carl Skaff wrote: > What tools do you wish you had in your colorcoretor? What do you wish you could do in your system? > Whats the number one thing missing? From rob at colorist.org Sun Sep 20 23:07:11 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:07:11 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: <7b08c40a0909201321r58f65a77xc0ba2a3a68d86e9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b08c40a0909201321r58f65a77xc0ba2a3a68d86e9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There are some ergonomically superior sensory codings that work very well in operator/artist interfaces. One is Color Coding. Use various colors, on the LEDs, to denote certain modes. This can be very powerful to present at even at a peripheral glance. Another is Sound. Beeps are very passé, when they don't impart any intelligence; speech synthesizers are worse. But use a discreet beep at a certain frequency- say, at 600Hz- to mean a successful event change; use 1000-1500Hz to indicate a dissolve entry and exit; use 2000-3000 to denote .... well you get the idea. Operator GUIs can make use of all kinds of feedback. Tactile: vibrate subtly the console- with no indication to the client- if you're entering unknown territory. Include an LED flash, programmable by the colorist, to indicate anything- and allow for all possible parameter excursions, e.g. "chroma approaching 110%;" "video encroaching on editor's intent;" .... Our software can be much more intelligent, by degrees or levels includable, depending on {$; package; promotional visibility.]. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder Colorist, Consultant rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 21 00:33:40 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:33:40 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: References: <7b08c40a0909201321r58f65a77xc0ba2a3a68d86e9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008A1305-5DD6-477F-B755-12A74F346F43@colorist.org> > Another is Sound. incidentally the CCC speech feedback was way ahead of its time, if also not so pleasing after a few minutes. It can be done more subtly, without the robotics. :) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jt at traktionfilms.com Mon Sep 21 03:00:07 2009 From: jt at traktionfilms.com (John Tissavary) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:00:07 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: <008A1305-5DD6-477F-B755-12A74F346F43@colorist.org> References: <7b08c40a0909201321r58f65a77xc0ba2a3a68d86e9a@mail.gmail.com> <008A1305-5DD6-477F-B755-12A74F346F43@colorist.org> Message-ID: <3cfa3fa10909201900u6dc1d18bjb1905b94ad7f0efd@mail.gmail.com> I'd love a spreadsheet-ey matrix for all parameters of all shots (or selected clips) so I can globally change parameters. I know this isn't colorist-touchy-feely, but once I'm done with the interactive part of the process and want to blast away at all the little bugs quickly this would be a great feature to have. cheers, jt On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > incidentally the CCC speech feedback was way ahead of its time, if also not > so pleasing after a few minutes. It can be done more subtly, without the > robotics. :) -- john tissavary | colorist | hi ground From carl at stopp.se Mon Sep 21 20:59:01 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:59:01 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: oh yes. And last year at IBC he was thrilled to see foot-peadls for the new Resolve-panel. Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 ________________________________________ From: Christopher Noellert [cnoellert at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 21:18 To: Carl Skaff Cc: tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? A certain swedish coloring master used to complain that the single missing component of his coloring setup was DaVinci's refusal to move From cnoellert at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 20:18:54 2009 From: cnoellert at gmail.com (Christopher Noellert) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:18:54 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Whats missing in your colorcorector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A certain swedish coloring master used to complain that the single missing component of his coloring setup was DaVinci's refusal to move the transport controls to foot pedals thereby freeing his hands for coloring only. Best, Chris -- PublicVFX Chris Noellert : VFX Artist 69 Market Street, Venice, CA, 90291 310.450.6969 o 310.450.6999 f 310.699.2151 c chris at publicvfx.com aim: chris.noellert http://www.publicvfx.com From jafalcon at mac.com Mon Sep 21 21:34:01 2009 From: jafalcon at mac.com (Janet Falcon) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:34:01 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: flat scans for tape to tape References: Message-ID: Hi Rob, This post doesn't seem to be going through, I'm not sure if is the issue with our server (I have ben receiving posts), but could you post it for me? Thanks!! Janet Falcon jafalcon at mac.com Begin forwarded message: > From: Janet Falcon > Date: September 21, 2009 12:14:16 PM EDT > To: TIG > Subject: flat scans for tape to tape > > Hi, > With more commercial work being done in a tape to tape format for > final color correction, we are occasionally scanning film to HDCam > SR to be able to color correct (on a DaVinci 2K) on an edited > submaster, as we would with HD originated material. I am wondering > if others who may be using this workflow are doing their scans as > log or linear. I have tried both ways, and generally I find I can > get to where I want from both starting points, but with the log- > based material takes it longer to get where I want, and the controls > on the 2K are very touchy. When I set up the linear scans, I > basically set the Spirit where I would put it during a normal film- > tape session, basically flat with nothing clipping. What are others > experiencing as the benefits of one way vs. the other? > Thanks! > > SHOOTERS POST & TRANSFER > THE CURTIS CENTER SUITE 1050 INDEPENDENCE SQUARE WEST PHILADELPHIA, > PA 19106 > SHOOTERSINC.COM 215-861-0100 THE-DIVE.NET > > JANET FALCON - SENIOR COLORIST > > > > > From ted at tedlangdell.com Tue Sep 22 06:07:17 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:07:17 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Film splicing cement sales in LA (Burbank) close to N. Pass and 134--Ideas? Message-ID: <75D907F3-F0EE-4940-9D53-32F8AF7F039A@tedlangdell.com> Suddenly needed film cement for while preparing reels for a series of demos. Any sources open this late a night or very early in the AM? Thanks, Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Skype: TedLangdell tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From andreas at smalfilm.no Tue Sep 22 12:33:49 2009 From: andreas at smalfilm.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Andreas_Wideroe?=) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:33:49 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Chroma subsampling Message-ID: <0BD7C369CD79436EACC8E0C9C948702A@kontoret> Hi, Stumbled across this Wikipedia article. I see that it is disputed and I know there are many people out there who want to learn about these things. Anyone here who could read through it and perhaps correct/add text? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling Best, Andreas --- Norsk Smalfilm AS http://www.smalfilm.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 Fax: (+47) 38 02 33 84 From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 22 16:24:29 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:24:29 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Chroma subsampling In-Reply-To: <0BD7C369CD79436EACC8E0C9C948702A@kontoret> References: <0BD7C369CD79436EACC8E0C9C948702A@kontoret> Message-ID: On Sep 22, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Andreas Wideroe wrote: > . Anyone here who could read through it and perhaps > correct/add text? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling It looks like there's extensive discussion on the discussion page for the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chroma_subsampling#Disputed including comments by some TIG members. Other, ostensibly more accurate articles are cited with links. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Sep 22 16:32:35 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:32:35 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Chroma subsampling In-Reply-To: <0BD7C369CD79436EACC8E0C9C948702A@kontoret> References: <0BD7C369CD79436EACC8E0C9C948702A@kontoret> Message-ID: <48rhb5he0q0db4l1j0puqljqn0iq3s4aob@4ax.com> >Stumbled across this Wikipedia article. I see that it is disputed >and I know there are many people out there who want to learn about >these things. Anyone here who could read through it and perhaps >correct/add text? > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling Ah, Wikipedia, home of facts by mob rule, substituting common knowledge for verified information since 2001. Now with over 3 million articles, some of which are factually correct. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 22 16:56:16 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:56:16 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Chroma subsampling In-Reply-To: <48rhb5he0q0db4l1j0puqljqn0iq3s4aob@4ax.com> References: <0BD7C369CD79436EACC8E0C9C948702A@kontoret> <48rhb5he0q0db4l1j0puqljqn0iq3s4aob@4ax.com> Message-ID: <0069D5D2-72FA-48C0-A9EA-7D1562567615@colorist.org> On Sep 22, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > Ah, Wikipedia, home of facts by mob rule, substituting common > knowledge for > verified information since 2001. > > Now with over 3 million articles, some of which are factually correct. There is at least an attempt at consensus (itself a controversial process) with articles related to what is called _Filmmaking_, by a group calling itself the Filmmaking Task Force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Films/Filmmaking_task_force A name that could come out of a Bradbury novel. The tradition of internet anonymity may be worthwhile in some community discussions, yet on Wikipedia, including in the Talk/ Discussions pages, is a contradiction, working to Wp's disadvantage. It appears at a quick glance that the Filmmaking Task Force referenced above does contain actual user pages. Glenn Chan of the TIG is a member, perhaps there are others here who can brief us on it. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From ken at flight4.org Wed Sep 23 02:22:52 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:22:52 -0300 Subject: [Tig] French Government Message-ID: French Government May Require Labelling of Digitally Altered Photos Well this could be good for a laugh! People are wondering if alteration includes colour correction... http://tinyurl.com/lx56gf Ken Robinson From enigma at turingstudio.com Wed Sep 23 02:41:57 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:41:57 -0700 Subject: [Tig] French Government In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5262FF83-A30A-4BBB-893E-767E28771E61@turingstudio.com> HAHAHAHA awesome > http://tinyurl.com/lx56gf _a -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / office root at turingstudio.com From new-century at lineone.net Wed Sep 23 15:49:29 2009 From: new-century at lineone.net (New Century) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:49:29 +0100 Subject: [Tig] French Government References: Message-ID: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> There is a serious reason behind this. There is some debate about the admissability of photographic evidence in legal matters. Terry Smith. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Robinson" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:22 AM Subject: [Tig] French Government > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2031 subscribers in September 2009 > ==== > > French Government May Require Labelling of Digitally Altered Photos > > > Well this could be good for a laugh! > People are wondering if alteration includes colour correction... > > > http://tinyurl.com/lx56gf > > > Ken Robinson > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 23 16:56:29 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:56:29 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Help: flat scans for tape to tape References: Message-ID: <6FA563BC-EE37-49D4-8D30-EB09646740C9@colorist.org> Can anyone help Janet with this question? Begin forwarded message: > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Janet Falcon >> Date: September 21, 2009 12:14:16 PM EDT >> To: TIG >> Subject: flat scans for tape to tape >> >> Hi, >> With more commercial work being done in a tape to tape format for >> final color correction, we are occasionally scanning film to HDCam >> SR to be able to color correct (on a DaVinci 2K) on an edited >> submaster, as we would with HD originated material. I am wondering >> if others who may be using this workflow are doing their scans as >> log or linear. I have tried both ways, and generally I find I can >> get to where I want from both starting points, but with the log- >> based material takes it longer to get where I want, and the >> controls on the 2K are very touchy. When I set up the linear scans, >> I basically set the Spirit where I would put it during a normal >> film-tape session, basically flat with nothing clipping. What are >> others experiencing as the benefits of one way vs. the other? >> Thanks! >> >> SHOOTERS POST & TRANSFER >> THE CURTIS CENTER SUITE 1050 INDEPENDENCE SQUARE WEST PHILADELPHIA, >> PA 19106 >> SHOOTERSINC.COM 215-861-0100 THE-DIVE.NET >> >> JANET FALCON - SENIOR COLORIST >> -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Sep 23 17:07:12 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:07:12 -0700 Subject: [Tig] French Government In-Reply-To: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> References: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> Message-ID: >> French Government May Require Labelling of Digitally Altered Photos >There is a serious reason behind this. There is some debate about the >admissability of photographic evidence in legal matters. As well there should be. The technology for altering still and moving footage has now gotten sufficiently sophisticated that it's very difficult to tell what's original and what's been altered, even for those who are doing the altering on a regular basis. At least for stills, one potential solution which comes to mind is to have all cameras imprint a visually invisible watermark of some sort which falls apart if any portion of the image is changed. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From enigma at turingstudio.com Wed Sep 23 18:08:39 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:08:39 -0700 Subject: [Tig] French Government In-Reply-To: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> References: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> Message-ID: <08DF3A5B-BF4A-40E2-B55D-99D4DA5A7A58@turingstudio.com> By laughing I'm not minimizing it - I do agree with the idea that presenting structurally altered images of people as real is dishonest and immoral, and am well aware of the body image problems in populations (particularly young women) that result from constant exposure to those images. The average target body size of a women in between 18 and 35 is clinically anorexic. Misuse of cameras and photoshop is largely attributable to that horrific statistic. However, I think it's hilarious because, well, good luck controlling everyone's image data. You could have manufacturers digitally sign raster data in-camera or in-scanner with an embedded signature derived from the data and build all prepress software to refuse images which aren't signed... but... yeah, not going to happen. Well, maybe for specialized law enforcement applications. I think the original article mentioned education. That is the only valid decision to take. Protecting people against things they don't understand is futile, only education and proper training is reliable and broadly applicable. It also makes for healthier more interesting societies. People who aren't aware of the fact of their protection are ignorant sheep, thus dangerous in large numbers. People that make an educated decision to participate in a society that protects them in ways which they are aware are _citizens_. I'd rather we manufacture the latter. _a -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / direct root at turingstudio.com From delaneydoug at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 19:18:17 2009 From: delaneydoug at gmail.com (Doug Delaney) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:18:17 -0700 Subject: [Tig] flat scans for tape to tape Message-ID: <78de4d3a0909231118r141f669dm176d088e0d2a9fd0@mail.gmail.com> My experience is mostly doing feature film HD deliverables from completed DIs, so the source for the HD sessions (either Davinci 2k or Baselight 4) would be log filmout ready dpx files. But we as a facility do scan film elements for library HD mastering as well, and we do this mostly in linear. In my experience, it is possible to get a very similiar end result coming from either log or linear source... but man it takes more time than it should. By sourcing log files, we're essentially doing the log-2-video linear conversion as a color correction. Now that is fine as it can be argued that a color corrector is a rather expensive LUT generator. But by doing so, you're putting the primary controls off into left field, hence the "very touchy" comment you rightfully made. There's also likely significant tracking problems when working this way - brightening a shot means it shifts color as well. When coming from log filmout ready dpx files, I will typically put a version of the print emulation 3d LUT used in the theatrical grading environment before color correction to get me to a very good starting position, then I'll do my trim from there. Hope that helps. Doug Delaney colorist Post Logic/Prime Focus LA > > > What are others experiencing as the benefits of one way vs. the other? > From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Wed Sep 23 19:36:40 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:36:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] French Government In-Reply-To: References: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, Bob Kertesz wrote: > > At least for stills, one potential solution which comes to mind is to have all > cameras imprint a visually invisible watermark of some sort which falls apart > if any portion of the image is changed. That is already often the case now ... Even without the government-mandated features, it is possible to identify a particular CCD/CMOS sensor, similar to the way a cartridge casing or rifle bullet can be matched to a particular gun since all sensors have minor defects. I have met some people who told me that this was their prime directive. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From jfmann at optimum.net Wed Sep 23 19:55:59 2009 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:55:59 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Help: flat scans for tape to tape In-Reply-To: <6FA563BC-EE37-49D4-8D30-EB09646740C9@colorist.org> References: <6FA563BC-EE37-49D4-8D30-EB09646740C9@colorist.org> Message-ID: <002301ca3c7f$7de62b70$79b28250$@net> Hi Janet, It has been a while since I've been to Philly, please pass my regards to Mr. Lovejoy. All my clients scan in the log format. Linear scans would be by special request. Most of those are TIFF scans for the print media. There are 2 ways to make your life easier correcting LOG material on the daVinci 2K. OH! I have misspelled daVinci! The correct spelling is DaVinci. :-) With your DaVinci input set at 1080Psf 444 on the "2K setup" menu tree, in the lower left corner is the "2K input LUT" select the LOG to Linear curve. This will certainly make life faster. Some colorists, prefer more control and leave the "2K input LUT" inactive and lieu correct for the LOG curve with Custom Curves (in the Super Vector board). This has the benefit of being able to be "undone" on a scene to scene basis. Hence if you have mixed LOG-LIN material on a tape this is the better idea. You can then save the curve to your Base Mem. If you call up a Ramp test pattern you can see what the "2K input LUT" does. Save that to the gallery. Then turn it off and use the still as a template to create your own custom curve. I hope this helps! Jim Jim Mann Freelance Colorist http://colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann C.516-250-0909 colorist444 at hotmail.com From carl at stopp.se Wed Sep 23 21:02:02 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:02:02 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR Message-ID: Well, I do the same thing here in sweden. Since I have a Spirit Classic witch can't do Log in video I do a Log-ish look instead. I set the Spirit up without clipping white/black but also give it a milky look by raising the gamma up a lot. Althoug, we do the grading in Resolve rather then the 2K+. In there I can use multiple nodes, maybe Node1 to make it look Lin, then use other node after that. That should make the controlls less touchy, maybe. I think that Nucoda has a mode were you can select how the primary should work. Selecting Log makes it work with better feeling from Log-material, and Lin for Lin-material. And I think that in the 2K you can apply an input LUT (like if you are working from Viper) that make the Log material look/feel like Lin, but I don't know if it actually takes away the benefit of Log in the first place? But really... if you setup the Spirit the same way for a "Flat-Scan-to-SR" as you do for a normal "Film-to-tape" you should be fine. Since the only difference is only the SR-compression (witch I've never seen as a problem). Except for that, it's the same signal going in to your 2K+ either from Sprit or SR. We've been doing these Flat-scans for over 5 years now. The good thing is that we always have EVERYTHING scanned. So if during the grading the director askes for another take... I can just load the tape and shuttle though it. No need to find time on the scanner and loading up neg-reel. And for the stuff we do, the quality is more the ok. /carl > Hi, > With more commercial work being done in a tape to tape format for > final color correction, we are occasionally scanning film to HDCam > SR to be able to color correct (on a DaVinci 2K) on an edited > submaster, as we would with HD originated material. I am wondering > if others who may be using this workflow are doing their scans as > log or linear. I have tried both ways, and generally I find I can > get to where I want from both starting points, but with the log- > based material takes it longer to get where I want, and the controls > on the 2K are very touchy. When I set up the linear scans, I > basically set the Spirit where I would put it during a normal film- > tape session, basically flat with nothing clipping. What are others > experiencing as the benefits of one way vs. the other? > Thanks! > > SHOOTERS POST & TRANSFER > THE CURTIS CENTER SUITE 1050 INDEPENDENCE SQUARE WEST PHILADELPHIA, > PA 19106 > SHOOTERSINC.COM 215-861-0100 THE-DIVE.NET > > JANET FALCON - SENIOR COLORIST > > Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From craig at optimus.com Thu Sep 24 04:48:08 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:48:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <237340560.107301253763981094.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> Message-ID: <521879981.107321253764088417.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> We work in exactly the scenario Carl describes as well, but we don't scan everything. Just selects with :20 handles. We also pre-scan in blow ups the editor may have used in the commercial. More often than not, we scan it 1:1 also. We use a Baselight 8 which has the ability to work in Log ( Film ) or Lin (Video) at will. We also do a similar scan to what Carl describes, but we use a setup that is recommended in the Spirit / Kodak manual about how to set up for a sort of Dmin / Dmax style scan. It has taken some tweaking, but works very nicely. We usually capture the whole film frame inside HD space, giving something like 1440 x 1080. We then uprez or downrez as needed. Depending on the job, framing decisions, etc. we also may only scan full 1920x1080 - but only if we know for sure cropping is set. I don't have any issues with controls being too touchy, or not being able to push or pull the images to my will. I especially like the ability to add LUTs or Looks based on creative decisions and not necessarily the "real" reason to use a lut - as in intended display or intended film stock. If my clients want it to look like it was printed on Kodak stock or reversal stock, it's easy to do, and in the end is a video master. WYSIWYG. Given that it's a non-linear system, I can mix in RedLog, RedSpace, Phantom as log .dpx, P2, Quicktimes, etc, etc, very easily, and not have to worry too much about what the original colorspace was, just what the intended color space is. Baselight also has a tool that can be added per shot, called "Technical Grade" which provides for a manual conversion from Log > Lin, Lin > Log or anything in between. I quite often use it to remove Rec709 that has been baked into an image in an unpleasant way. I've found it much much easier to match other formats and file types to film that starts out as a Log-style scan. Just my 2 cents. Craig Leffel Senior Color Mixologist Optimus Chicago / Santa Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Skaff" To: tig at colorist.org Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:02:02 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2031 subscribers in September 2009 ==== Well, I do the same thing here in sweden. Since I have a Spirit Classic witch can't do Log in video I do a Log-ish look instead. I set the Spirit up without clipping white/black but also give it a milky look by raising the gamma up a lot. Althoug, we do the grading in Resolve rather then the 2K+. In there I can use multiple nodes, maybe Node1 to make it look Lin, then use other node after that. That should make the controlls less touchy, maybe. I think that Nucoda has a mode were you can select how the primary should work. Selecting Log makes it work with better feeling from Log-material, and Lin for Lin-material. And I think that in the 2K you can apply an input LUT (like if you are working from Viper) that make the Log material look/feel like Lin, but I don't know if it actually takes away the benefit of Log in the first place? But really... if you setup the Spirit the same way for a "Flat-Scan-to-SR" as you do for a normal "Film-to-tape" you should be fine. Since the only difference is only the SR-compression (witch I've never seen as a problem). Except for that, it's the same signal going in to your 2K+ either from Sprit or SR. We've been doing these Flat-scans for over 5 years now. The good thing is that we always have EVERYTHING scanned. So if during the grading the director askes for another take... I can just load the tape and shuttle though it. No need to find time on the scanner and loading up neg-reel. And for the stuff we do, the quality is more the ok. /carl > Hi, > With more commercial work being done in a tape to tape format for > final color correction, we are occasionally scanning film to HDCam > SR to be able to color correct (on a DaVinci 2K) on an edited > submaster, as we would with HD originated material. I am wondering > if others who may be using this workflow are doing their scans as > log or linear. I have tried both ways, and generally I find I can > get to where I want from both starting points, but with the log- > based material takes it longer to get where I want, and the controls > on the 2K are very touchy. When I set up the linear scans, I > basically set the Spirit where I would put it during a normal film- > tape session, basically flat with nothing clipping. What are others > experiencing as the benefits of one way vs. the other? > Thanks! > > SHOOTERS POST & TRANSFER > THE CURTIS CENTER SUITE 1050 INDEPENDENCE SQUARE WEST PHILADELPHIA, > PA 19106 > SHOOTERSINC.COM 215-861-0100 THE-DIVE.NET > > JANET FALCON - SENIOR COLORIST > > Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From hxpro at cinesite.co.uk Thu Sep 24 10:29:21 2009 From: hxpro at cinesite.co.uk (Kevin Wheatley) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:29:21 +0100 Subject: [Tig] French Government In-Reply-To: <08DF3A5B-BF4A-40E2-B55D-99D4DA5A7A58@turingstudio.com> References: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> <08DF3A5B-BF4A-40E2-B55D-99D4DA5A7A58@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: <4ABB3BF1.4030107@cinesite.co.uk> alex black wrote: > However, I think it's hilarious because, well, good luck controlling > everyone's image data. You could have manufacturers digitally sign > raster data in-camera or in-scanner with an embedded signature derived > from the data and build all prepress software to refuse images which > aren't signed... but... yeah, not going to happen. Well, maybe for > specialized law enforcement applications. More interesting is at what point is it considered 'manipulated'? Aliasing vs Edge enhancing during de-Bayer? "There were 3 close together scratch marks" White balance - think about images of Mars (or Australia at the moment) "She was wearing a red dress" Getting enough consensus to form a sensible law might prove difficult, oh wait they never said sensible... > I think the original article mentioned education. That is the only valid > decision to take. You seen Facebook and youtube then :-) Kevin -- | Kevin Wheatley, Cinesite (Europe) Ltd | Nobody thinks this | | Senior Technology | My employer for certain | | And Network Systems Architect | Not even myself | Cinesite (Europe) Ltd. Registered Office: HemelOne, Boundary Way, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP2 7YU Registered in Cardiff No. 2820389 VAT No. 630 5446 60 From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Sep 24 20:13:03 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:13:03 -0700 Subject: [Tig] New Season... new workflows? CC patterns? Message-ID: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> The new season just started, and I gather there are some new circumstances in place. How things have changed from last season? A top-rated show that just debuted Tuesday is using Apple Color and a 3rd party panel for CC. Thought it might be interesting to hear what the shows are using for color correction this season, who's behind the panel... what the workflow is from Camera to deliverable. Hope folks are staying busy. Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Skype: TedLangdell e-mail: ted at flashscan8us The flashtransfer Demo Tour is underway! Los Angeles, Sept. 20-24 w/SAMMA Solo AMIA Conference, St. Louis, Nov. 2-7 From flyback1 at verizon.net Thu Sep 24 22:54:56 2009 From: flyback1 at verizon.net (Cliff Benham) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:56 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> References: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> Hello, I've been reading and lurking here trying to learn, and this is my first post. Can anyone offer insights to the apparently poor electronic cinema presentations last night of the 70th Anniversary Wizard of Oz? What I saw was dull and dim, not even close to an 'old' film print. At the end, a *Windows Desktop* appeared on the theater screen! Regards, Cliff Benham From steve at veralith.com Thu Sep 24 23:04:48 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:04:48 -0500 Subject: [Tig] New Season... new workflows? CC patterns? In-Reply-To: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> References: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <035B3B49-63AD-46D3-AA6A-64291DA33DBB@veralith.com> I second this idea. If anyone is working on a show we'll be watching this fall, I'd love to know the equipment, source media, workflow and deliverables. On Sep 24, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Ted Langdell wrote: > The new season just started, and I gather there are some new > circumstances in place. How things have changed from last season? From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Thu Sep 24 23:58:50 2009 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (peter_swinson at compuserve.com) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:58:50 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation Message-ID: <8CC0B81B709E854-E84-5F8@angweb-usd015.sysops.aol.com> I have no idea where this was shown, but Cliff Benham seems well disappointed.   It is now many years since HD scanners hit the streets but I do remember way back in those early days a certain colorist in L.A., on scanning an IP composited from, I guess, Technicolor separations, wowing the fact that until the HD scan of the IP he had not realized that Dorothy had freckles. Seems the film prints lost this subtlety.   It worries me if Cliff’s experience is an indication as to the lack of care sometimes associated with digital projection, or the digital image source.   I am a converted film man when it comes to presentation. While I will always claim=2 0shooting film will for many years outclass shooting digital, presenting the results in quality digits gets my vote every time.   Now who was that colorist who spotted the freckles, Post Logic & Lou L. come to mind.   Cheers     From view at viewpro.ch Fri Sep 25 00:31:14 2009 From: view at viewpro.ch (view at viewpro.ch) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:31:14 +0200 Subject: [Tig] PS 3 Recording.. Help ! Message-ID: Hi tig, how can i record a 720 P quicktime file to sony PS 3. File format ? FCP compressor settings? Play out to memory stick or DVD ? Other H 264 formats ? Best quality ? Thanks for help. Regards Tonio Tonio Krüger Lindenhofstr.1 8636 Wald ZH Switzerland view at viewpro.ch From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 25 00:10:31 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:10:31 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> References: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <42958167-EC0B-416C-A587-6B2751E9133F@colorist.org> On Sep 24, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Cliff Benham wrote: > Can anyone offer insights to the apparently poor electronic cinema > presentations last night of the 70th Anniversary Wizard of Oz? it doesn't answer your question, but this post from 12 days ago, about the UltraRes scanning for the anniversary: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2009-September/016589.html from Richard Kirk at FilmLight about Technicolor process plugins: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2008-March/012968.html from Jean-Clement Soret in 1997: http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1997/msg01518.html http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1997/msg01526.html and others: http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1997/msg01520.html -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com Fri Sep 25 01:05:12 2009 From: erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:05:12 -0700 Subject: [Tig] PS 3 Recording.. Help ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1FC5B3DA-0ED0-4CED-A7DF-B16D9A7F4FDA@monkeyswithchopstix.com> Do you mean create a file for playback on a PS3? I'll check my notes, I did a lot of the initial encoding for PS3 release for playback in the Sony stores. --- If you understand everything, you must be misinformed. - Proverb, (Japanese) From steve at veralith.com Fri Sep 25 01:28:37 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:28:37 -0500 Subject: [Tig] PS 3 Recording.. Help ! In-Reply-To: <1FC5B3DA-0ED0-4CED-A7DF-B16D9A7F4FDA@monkeyswithchopstix.com> References: <1FC5B3DA-0ED0-4CED-A7DF-B16D9A7F4FDA@monkeyswithchopstix.com> Message-ID: <83BCF6BB-F804-4358-9C05-934E36670133@veralith.com> Sorenson Squeeze has a preset specifically for PS3. Steve Hullfish author Chicago On Sep 24, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Erik Hansen wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2031 subscribers in September 2009 > ==== > > Do you mean create a file for playback on a PS3? > > I'll check my notes, I did a lot of the initial encoding for PS3 > release for playback in the Sony stores. > > --- > > If you understand everything, you must be misinformed. > - Proverb, (Japanese) > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From brian_thomas96 at comcast.net Fri Sep 25 01:54:52 2009 From: brian_thomas96 at comcast.net (brian thomas) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:54:52 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1253840092.3996.7.camel@solace.hsd1.pa.comcast.net.> i was so disappointed at what i saw, i left after 45 min. the featurette was blown out in spots and the "color" was less than impressive during the feature. showing scenes from the film during the featuette was a huge mistake. if anything they should have shown it afterward. the icing on the cake was it was out of sync! the audio was early, and with the lack of vibrant color made it too much for me to take. I'm glad I'm not the only one that was unhappy with what they saw. From e.chalaron at xtra.co.nz Fri Sep 25 01:51:25 2009 From: e.chalaron at xtra.co.nz (E Chalaron) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:51:25 +1200 Subject: [Tig] PS 3 Recording.. Help ! In-Reply-To: <83BCF6BB-F804-4358-9C05-934E36670133@veralith.com> References: <1FC5B3DA-0ED0-4CED-A7DF-B16D9A7F4FDA@monkeyswithchopstix.com> <83BCF6BB-F804-4358-9C05-934E36670133@veralith.com> Message-ID: <4ABC140D.9030408@xtra.co.nz> Hi there you can try MultiAVCHD http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/ It will author layout from MP4/H264 to PS3 and other AVCHD compliant device. It seems to take quicktime but not sure about which codec though Cheers Edouard From enigma at turingstudio.com Fri Sep 25 01:41:28 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:41:28 -0700 Subject: [Tig] PS 3 Recording.. Help ! In-Reply-To: <83BCF6BB-F804-4358-9C05-934E36670133@veralith.com> References: <1FC5B3DA-0ED0-4CED-A7DF-B16D9A7F4FDA@monkeyswithchopstix.com> <83BCF6BB-F804-4358-9C05-934E36670133@veralith.com> Message-ID: <36447A37-501F-4FE6-A1B7-5B3D3DCAEFB7@turingstudio.com> So does handbrake h.264 from handbrake works fine for me _a On Sep 24, 2009, at 5:28 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > Sorenson Squeeze has a preset specifically for PS3. -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / office root at turingstudio.com From rick at fsm.com.au Fri Sep 25 02:45:07 2009 From: rick at fsm.com.au (Rick Schweikert) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:45:07 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <986.99491253843266.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> It's an interesting process that sometimes the grading community looks at doing a film to video transfer to compressed HD videotape. Personally, I see it as a step backwards in quality as opposed to a 2K scan of 35 or S16. We use our NorthLight to scan at 2K - either select neg or from uncut negative. You have your full 35mm frame and can do all blow ups etc without fear of resolution deterioration. So it doesn't matter if you finish PAL, NTSC or HD. Or 2K for that matter. We grade on BaseLight - but it could be anything really. Putting your film onto SR means you have to mess with the pixels to squash the full height frame into HD and then expand it back out. It also can be restrictive with blow ups if you want to finish in HD. Either that or make decisions regarding size and racking at the transfer stage. SR stock is pretty expensive too. >From a perspective of quality and also having a streamlined approach - scanning surely is much more preferable to a video transfer to a compressed HD tape format - no matter how good that compression might be. Rick - FSM, Sydney -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Carl Skaff Sent: Thursday, 24 September 2009 06:02 To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2031 subscribers in September 2009 ==== Well, I do the same thing here in sweden. Since I have a Spirit Classic witch can't do Log in video I do a Log-ish look instead. From rcurrier at synthetic-ap.com Fri Sep 25 03:11:41 2009 From: rcurrier at synthetic-ap.com (Bob Currier) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:11:41 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> References: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20090925021141.1594427634@smarthost.coxmail.com> The presentation I saw looked like they had an unterminated video cable somewhere: whites blown out and horrible colored ghosting. It looked better (with less multipath) on the family's Sears Silvertone console in 1970. Plus the screen door effect on the projector reminded me of a corporate PowerPoint presentation. We were treated to the Windows desktop too. I sure hope the Blu-ray is a better experience, as the Fathom presentation did a terrible disservice to the people who (presumably) worked hard on the restoration. ----- Bob Currier Synthetic Aperture From tomt at niceshoes.com Fri Sep 25 04:10:14 2009 From: tomt at niceshoes.com (Tom Tomlinson) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:10:14 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> References: <2E52FA84-9961-4C32-A705-085134BFD4DF@tedlangdell.com> <4ABBEAB0.4040507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <87F12D36-8CCB-4BB2-94DD-801E3CB54E81@niceshoes.com> The projectionists forum over at Film-Tech offer some insight into this Fathom theater rental event/disaster. They have an HD OZ topic in the film-yak forum over at Film-Tech.com. Obviously projectionists know a good presentation when they see one. I do look forward to examining the blu-ray. I did not see this Oz screening, but it appears to be not at the level Blade-Runner was. Tom Tomlinson Telecine Ass't. Nice Shoes From craig at optimus.com Fri Sep 25 04:41:11 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:41:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <1522156790.119211253850036745.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> Message-ID: <927551653.119261253850071780.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> >SR stock is pretty expensive too. >From a perspective of quality and also having a streamlined approach - scanning surely is much more preferable to a video transfer to a compressed HD tape format - no matter how good that compression might be. Rick - FSM, Sydney ________________________________________________________ You haven't said anything I don't agree with. We can scan at 2K, we just rarely do. Most of our work finishes HD 1080i video, and working in this way ( 1920x1080 23.98 Pfs RGB 4:4:4 HDCamSR ) affords us a realtime workflow, without the issues of 2K texture or grain, and also gives us an archive that is more efficient, easier and cheaper than LTO robots hanging on large storage SANS. We do hundreds of commercials a year, and we haven't seen a significant loss in quality given what our usual working parameters are, and what goes on the air. I never suggested there was zero loss of image resolution or that it was a higher quality workflow. Just one that makes more sense for the work we do. Scan 'em if ya got 'em. Craig Leffel Senior Colorist Optimus Chicago From blumediaprojekt at nerdshack.com Fri Sep 25 08:25:40 2009 From: blumediaprojekt at nerdshack.com (R. Adam Berk) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:25:40 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <986.99491253843266.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> References: <986.99491253843266.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> Message-ID: <4A62B639-5E98-44A8-9DF0-50D7F7F379F3@nerdshack.com> I'm with you on this one Rick. But as always, there's good, fast, and cheap.......pick only two. R. Adam Berk Managing Director | Flame Artist +1.415.513.5918 Creative Technology San Francisco, CA On Sep 24, 2009, at 6:45 PM, Rick Schweikert wrote: > Personally, I see > it as a step backwards in quality as opposed to a 2K scan of 35 or > S16. From carl at stopp.se Fri Sep 25 08:01:43 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:01:43 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <986.99491253843266.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> References: , <986.99491253843266.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> Message-ID: I agree. But for those of us that can't get our bosses to spring for the money to get a data-scanner...HD-flatscans to SR is the step tarward that workflow. And if the target is 100% SD I think it's alright. But if I were to find a northlight/scannity/arri/lasergraphic/etc on my doorstep one day.. I would swap in a hartbeat. Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 >From a perspective of quality and also having a streamlined approach - scanning surely is much more preferable to a video transfer to a compressed HD tape format - no matter how good that compression might be. Rick - FSM, Sydney From cyburban at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 25 07:25:32 2009 From: cyburban at sbcglobal.net (Ann Monn) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] testing the waters Message-ID: <882270.53613.qm@web80407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi-- I am a new user, looking over this site with interest & curiosity.  This is an excellent collection of useful information and I am so glad I came across it.  Its like a mini-course.  I have a lot of questions though. Like many other posters, I am curious what the path might be like if I wanted to become a colorist.  I am a Flame/Inferno artist with 10 yrs in feature film + 3 yrs in a post house, also as a Flame artist.  I have a strong eye and a lot of experience running a room for higher-end clients.  Right now I am in a good position to retool myself, and would like to take advantage of it as intelligently as possible.   In general, do you guys think now is a good time to enter this field?  Is there some potential for stability?  Are there more colorists than jobs at this point?Is color grading going overseas, like VFX is?  Googling “DI colorist jobs” the 5th, 6th and 10th listings refer to DI color grading in India.  Whats really happening?  I look forward to hearing your thoughts.  From Dean.Jackson at aiatsis.gov.au Fri Sep 25 05:49:35 2009 From: Dean.Jackson at aiatsis.gov.au (Dean Jackson) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:49:35 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <927551653.119261253850071780.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> Message-ID: It will be interesting to see if you still hold these views in 5, 10, or 20 years Dean -----Original Message----- >From a perspective of quality and also having a streamlined approach - scanning surely is much more preferable to a video transfer to a compressed HD tape format - no matter how good that compression might be. Rick - FSM, Sydney From janet at shootersinc.com Fri Sep 25 13:09:39 2009 From: janet at shootersinc.com (Janet Falcon) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:09:39 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <927551653.119261253850071780.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> References: <927551653.119261253850071780.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> Message-ID: <98B71BB6-A477-4566-8F79-EC6443E710A0@shootersinc.com> Thanks for all of the responses. Craig beat me to the punch, that is exactly why we follow this workflow for certain clients. It is a high quality and efficient way to work, especially for clients that want to stay in our DaVinci 2K suite. When we are doing a feature or other other project on the Resolve, in our DI projection suite we always do 2K log scans to our SAN. SHOOTERS POST & TRANSFER THE CURTIS CENTER SUITE 1050 INDEPENDENCE SQUARE WEST PHILADELPHIA, PA 19106 SHOOTERSINC.COM 215-861-0100 THE-DIVE.NET JANET FALCON - SENIOR COLORIST From view at viewpro.ch Fri Sep 25 07:27:49 2009 From: view at viewpro.ch (view at viewpro.ch) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:27:49 +0200 Subject: [Tig] PS 3 Recording.. Help ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <111CBB19-4015-480F-81D4-3FC9CFAB3E1B@viewpro.ch> Hi there thanks a lot for your fast answers. I hope it will work now. Regards Tonio Tonio Krüger Lindenhofstr.1 8636 Wald ZH Switzerland view at viewpro.ch From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Fri Sep 25 16:38:45 2009 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:38:45 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ABCE405.4090103@filmlight.ltd.uk> I don't know about this version, but I remember seeing the the digital reconstruction of Oz at IBC a couple of years ago. This was a film version, but I believe the Technicolor matrix had been scanned and re-registered. The colours were probably not as saturated as the Technicolor version, but it looked okay, colour-wise. Now a digital version of Oz on a Barco DP100P ought to get closer to the Technicolor reds and yellows. However, because the different colour separations were now all in register, you got to see all sorts of stuff that you missed earlier. The beginning of the Yellow Brick Road was obviously painted on a floor. You could see the joins in the set. The Emerald City blooked like a painted backdrop (which of course it was, but the fuzziness of the original somehow stopped us noticing the obvious). It had turned into The Banana Splits. Sometimes you just can't win. Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 or 0409 224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP From peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com Fri Sep 25 17:00:08 2009 From: peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com (peter stansfield) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:00:08 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4ABCE405.4090103@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <4ABCE405.4090103@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <940D853F-85FE-45F0-9BA6-5FFA62528606@wavecrest-systems.com> Richard From what I remember, you could also see the 'strings' on the munchkins. I was also involved in a debate in Hollywood about whether these should be left in (as they were a real part of the image) or whether they should be 'touched out' to present what was intended Tough choice! - it reminds me that you can't please all of the people all of the time.... Regards Peter Stansfield Wavecrest Systems Ltd On 25 Sep 2009, at 16:38, Richard Kirk wrote: > I don't know about this version, but I remember seeing the the > digital reconstruction of Oz at IBC a couple of years ago. This was > a film version, but I believe the Technicolor matrix had been From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 25 17:04:38 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:04:38 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4ABCE405.4090103@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <4ABCE405.4090103@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <015383CE-5AD1-4838-B657-EE3379975784@colorist.org> On Sep 25, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Richard Kirk wrote: > However, because the different colour separations were now all in > register, you got to see all sorts of stuff that you missed earlier. > The beginning of the Yellow Brick Road was obviously painted on a > floor. You could see the joins in the set. The Emerald City blooked > like a painted backdrop (which of course it was, but the fuzziness > of the original somehow stopped us noticing the obvious). It had > turned into The Banana Splits. > > Sometimes you just can't win. The theatrical nature of the 'in register' film, seeming like a play done on a stage, could contribute its own esthetic sense to the experience. Kind of like the wall shaking when Ralph slams the door on the set of The Honeymooners. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From rob at cinelab.com Fri Sep 25 18:50:50 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:50:50 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4ABCE405.4090103@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <4ABCE405.4090103@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <830ACE66-932D-42EB-A91E-610FE8D16BDA@cinelab.com> > However, because the different colour separations were now all in > register, you got to see all sorts of stuff that you missed earlier. > The beginning of the Yellow Brick Road was obviously painted on a > floor. You could see the joins in the set. The Emerald City blooked > like a painted backdrop (which of course it was, but the fuzziness > of the original somehow stopped us noticing the obvious). It had > turned into The Banana Splits. maybe they should have done a B&W restoration to the original Technicolor elements and then a optical YCM mix to a Inter-Pos what is the point of all the hi tech mumbo-jumbo when it makes the beautiful original look worse? -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From Jan.Yarbrough at warnerbros.com Fri Sep 25 19:47:22 2009 From: Jan.Yarbrough at warnerbros.com (Yarbrough, Jan) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:47:22 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <830ACE66-932D-42EB-A91E-610FE8D16BDA@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <4345E1722B4F40499B03310869D162F5142415BDD5@WBWBURPEX7C2M3.amer.warnerbros.com> Boy, I don't know WHAT you guys saw in the UK, but the LA premier looked spectacular! Here's a link you might want to read: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Wizard-of-Oz-Blu-ray-Review/6366/ Jan > However, because the different colour separations were now all in > register, you got to see all sorts of stuff that you missed earlier. > The beginning of the Yellow Brick Road was obviously painted on a > floor. You could see the joins in the set. The Emerald City blooked > like a painted backdrop (which of course it was, but the fuzziness > of the original somehow stopped us noticing the obvious). It had > turned into The Banana Splits. From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 25 21:48:13 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:48:13 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <4345E1722B4F40499B03310869D162F5142415BDD5@WBWBURPEX7C2M3.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <4345E1722B4F40499B03310869D162F5142415BDD5@WBWBURPEX7C2M3.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <600CCB5F-ABE9-4955-A947-F197F9152152@colorist.org> On Sep 25, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Yarbrough, Jan wrote: > Boy, I don't know WHAT you guys saw in the UK, but the LA premier > looked spectacular! Here's a link you might want to read: > > http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Wizard-of-Oz-Blu-ray-Review/6366/ Is there a critique available from an unbiased reviewer? Mr. Brown works for the company that is selling the discs, and I'd like to believe everything he says, yet the hyperbole is at a very high level. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From Tom at tgt.org Fri Sep 25 22:05:04 2009 From: Tom at tgt.org (Tom Tcimpidis) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:05:04 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Wizard of Oz 70th Anniversary Electronic Cinema Presentation In-Reply-To: <600CCB5F-ABE9-4955-A947-F197F9152152@colorist.org> References: <4345E1722B4F40499B03310869D162F5142415BDD5@WBWBURPEX7C2M3.amer.warnerbros.com> <600CCB5F-ABE9-4955-A947-F197F9152152@colorist.org> Message-ID: <005701ca3e23$db8b08e0$92a11aa0$@org> I have a BR copy courtesy of a friend at WB and while I have not had a chance yet to do more than just sample it, what I saw impressed me. I don't think it is quite as spectacular as the gentleman reviewing it claimed, but it definitely did not disappoint me for the 10 or 15 minutes I spent watching it. Tom > Boy, I don't know WHAT you guys saw in the UK, but the LA premier > looked spectacular! Here's a link you might want to read: From bob at bluescreen.com Fri Sep 25 22:47:33 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:47:33 -0700 Subject: [Tig] French Government In-Reply-To: <4ABB3BF1.4030107@cinesite.co.uk> References: <001101ca3c5d$28a7ef80$99d6e150@a2q3y9> <08DF3A5B-BF4A-40E2-B55D-99D4DA5A7A58@turingstudio.com> <4ABB3BF1.4030107@cinesite.co.uk> Message-ID: >More interesting is at what point is it considered 'manipulated'? My post on the subject applied to images used in any "news" format, whether print, TV, or web based, as well as any images used in legal proceedings. Photos used in those instances should have a watermark which appears when they have been altered in any way. I really don't care what Vogue does to make their anorexic models look even thinner and closer to death, nor what advertisers do to make their product appear more appealing. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From rob at colorist.org Sat Sep 26 23:03:46 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:03:46 -0300 Subject: [Tig] current spots. Message-ID: If you haven't seen Bob Festa's, or Beau Leon's, current spots on http://www.colorist.org, it would be worth your while. Honda Accord. Alfa Romeo. Land Rover. Go to http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Main_Page and, if you don't see something you like, reload the page. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Sat Sep 26 23:11:34 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:11:34 -0300 Subject: [Tig] photos, IBC 2009 Message-ID: Does anyone have any photos of IBC 2009 in Amsterdam, that they could share with the TIG world? Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From roystonvanhuizen at yahoo.com Sun Sep 27 06:26:45 2009 From: roystonvanhuizen at yahoo.com (ROYSTON VAN HUIZEN) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] Baselight manual and Video tutorials Message-ID: <727304.76585.qm@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi my name is Royston and a fellow colorist, and I need some help in getting a copy of a Baselight manual and video tutorials or a link to where I can get access to it. I am keen in learning the system. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks Roy From bobfesta at mac.com Sun Sep 27 18:25:03 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:25:03 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Baselight manual and Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <727304.76585.qm@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <727304.76585.qm@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <77C6C5E9-4780-4B23-A8DE-EE2CFB8330E4@mac.com> Royston, Unlike other manufacturers, Filmlight has all of their documentation available on the web: http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/services_support/library/baselight Also check out Paul Lears site here: http://baselight-tutorials.com/cms1/ That should keep you busy for a few weeks. Best, Bob Festa New Hat On Sep 26, 2009, at 10:26 PM, ROYSTON VAN HUIZEN wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2031 subscribers in September 2009 > ==== > > > > Hi my name is Royston and a fellow colorist, and I need some help in > getting > a copy of a Baselight manual and video tutorials or a link to where > I can get access to it. > I am keen in learning the system. > > Any help is much appreciated. Thanks > > Roy From rick at fsm.com.au Sun Sep 27 22:41:19 2009 From: rick at fsm.com.au (Rick Schweikert) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:41:19 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <986.99731254087843.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> Keeping the standards as high as possible I'd hope would be my view. Like many (all?) on this list, we've invested $$millions in telecine, scanners, grading and infrastructure support - I just hate to see that diluted by a perceived "quick" fix. And besides, no calculation I've done supports the idea that video transfers to SR tape are a cheaper option than scanning - provided you have an efficient workflow for your scanning. Rick, FSM -----Original Message----- From: Dean Jackson [mailto:Dean.Jackson at aiatsis.gov.au] It will be interesting to see if you still hold these views in 5, 10, or 20 years Dean -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Craig Leffel Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 1:41 PM To: Rick Schweikert Cc: Carl Skaff; tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] Flat scans to SR ==== >SR stock is pretty expensive too. >From a perspective of quality and also having a streamlined approach - From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 28 16:33:57 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:33:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital Message-ID: In my past few days the wife and I have been treated to new episodes of ABC's top drama programs (e.g. Desperate Housewives). A few months back the demise of film was mentioned here and that many/most drama programs would be shot in digital this year. Unfortunately, the situation is far worse than I expected. Video quality has dropped from 'A' grade to perhaps barely making a 'D'. Normally full-range content like Desperate Housewives comes out absolutely terrible. My wife does not normally complain about image quality but last night she was definitely complaining. It was typical for most characters to have "moon" heads with one side very bright and one cast in shadow to black. Shots through glass windows looked terrible. The only way that these programs could be properly shot straight to digital would be if they tear down all of the existing sets and built new sets which provide boring uniform lighting. I am not looking forward to seeing the first episode of "Ugly Betty" for the new year since I expect that this once glorious show will also look terribly ugly. These video image problems are appearing just as the US has completely transitioned to digital TV and millions of people have new HDTV sets where the image quality problems will be quite objectionable. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From jpo at prestodigital.ca Mon Sep 28 16:21:40 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:21:40 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <986.99731254087843.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> References: <986.99731254087843.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> Message-ID: <33DE635A-B75F-4CBB-B91F-5A47F0DF7D11@prestodigital.ca> > > Keeping the standards as high as possible I'd hope would be my > view. Like > many (all?) on this list, we've invested $$millions in telecine, > scanners, > grading and infrastructure support - I just hate to see that > diluted by a > perceived "quick" fix. > Personally, I'm just as interested in a sustainable business model. In a practical sense, some pragmatic judgement is going to have to be exercised. Why isn't the Concorde still with us? Because the 747 was profitable. It wasn't the fastest, but it was the most economical, and the investment that customers made in it was justifiable in terms of fare vs. time in transit. Quality is all very nice but it very definitely is not the only factor in determining workflow. If it was, then then we could only ever settle for 4K, no wait, 8K, no wait 16K, no wait, 32K 10 bit, no wait 16 bit, no wait 32 bit... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From simonastbury at hotmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:58:04 2009 From: simonastbury at hotmail.com (simon astbury) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:58:04 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <33DE635A-B75F-4CBB-B91F-5A47F0DF7D11@prestodigital.ca> References: <986.99731254087843.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> <33DE635A-B75F-4CBB-B91F-5A47F0DF7D11@prestodigital.ca> Message-ID: > Personally, I'm just as interested in a sustainable business model. > In a practical sense, some pragmatic judgement is going to have to be > exercised. > Why isn't the Concorde still with us? Because the 747 was > profitable. It wasn't the fastest, but it was the most economical, > and the investment that customers made in it was justifiable in terms > of fare vs. time in transit. Quality is all very nice but it very > definitely is not the only factor in determining workflow. If it > was, then then we could only ever settle for 4K, no wait, 8K, no wait > 16K, no wait, 32K 10 bit, no wait 16 bit, no wait 32 bit... > We are in a world where good enough is becoming the norm. It has happened with photography, why do you need medium format for photojournalism when a 12 mega pixel camera will do ? Why do you need 35mm when 4k data will do. I would be surprised if we see 16k data as a widespread format anytime soon.... 4k is "good enough". (one eyebrow raised throughout) ! Simon _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to add other email accounts to Hotmail in 3 easy steps. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/ From adrian at autotv.co.uk Mon Sep 28 20:11:46 2009 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:11:46 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: References: <986.99731254087843.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> <33DE635A-B75F-4CBB-B91F-5A47F0DF7D11@prestodigital.ca> Message-ID: <9CBE5E7C-655B-4D1F-A829-B6A44EA3ACA2@autotv.co.uk> To be fair, it was the Leica and subsequent 35mm SLRs that did for medium format photojournalism, not the much later 12 Mpixel DSLR. All are MORE THAN good enough, that's the point. -- Adrian Thomas -- On 28 Sep 2009, at 17:58, simon astbury wrote: > > We are in a world where good enough is becoming the norm. It has > happened with photography, why do you need medium format for > photojournalism when a 12 mega pixel camera will do ? Why do you > need 35mm when 4k data will do. I would be surprised if we see 16k > data as a widespread format anytime soon.... 4k is "good enough". > (one eyebrow raised throughout) ! > From owen at ywwg.com Mon Sep 28 22:27:38 2009 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:27:38 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1254173258.5180.20.camel@ywwg> I was watching the pilot for "Flash Forward" (over cable HDTV) and thought the image was quite dark and murky in some interior shots. I can understand going for a moody image, but it was hard to make out details. According to this page, Flash Forward is shot using an F35: http://electronicsblog.sel.sony.com/sony/photo_detail/?albumid=5319879137744099006 Is there a web page out there that lists what shows use which cameras? Maybe that's something for the wiki. owen From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Sep 29 01:01:58 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:01:58 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't seen it, so can't comment on image quality, but Desperate Housewives is being shot on 35mm, just like every previous season, AFAIK. Here is a list compiled by Paul K. Miller (dfits at earthlink.net) over on the Cinematography Mailing List: "This is a whole new take on US TV Production. It is based on a spreadsheet derived from TV Guide's Schedule. The list now also has the show's network, an some comments on future schedule changes. Special thanks to Mike Most, Sean Green, and Greg Lowry who all made the most recent contributions. 16mm Film: Burn Notice - USA- Mike Most Chuck - NBC- Mike Most Crash - Kodak - Ingrid Goodyear & Sean Green Degrassi: The Next Generation - CW- Kodak - Ingrid Goodyear - Canada Eastbound and Down - HBO- Ingrid Goodyear Eastwick - ABC - Ingrid Goodyear Friday Night Lights - NBC- Ian Ellis Greek - ABC- Ingrid Goodyear Heartland - CBC- Ingrid Goodyear - Canada In Plain Sight - USA- Bruce Johnson Lincoln Heights - ABC- Ingrid Goodyear Men of a Certain Age - TNT- Ingrid Goodyear The Middle - ABC- Ingrid Goodyear Confirmed by Mike Most Monk - USA- Mike Most - This is the last season. One Tree Hill - CW- Mike Most Psych - USA- IMDB Saving Grace - TNT- S Peterson Scrubs - ABC- Ingrid Goodyear 35mm Film: 24 - FOX- Mike Most 30 Rock - NBC- Mike Most Beastly - CBS- Ingrid Goodyear Big Bang Theory - CBS- IMDB Big Love - HBO- Ingrid Goodyear Boardwalk Empire - HBO- Jendra Jarnagin - (HBO Scorsese Pilot) Breaking Bad - AMC- Ingrid Goodyear & Aaron Wise Brothers & Sisters - ABC- Mike Most - Started on Genesis, now 35mm Cynthia Pusheck Castle - ABC- Mike Carmine The Closer - TNT- Mike Most Copper - ABC- Fuji - David Perrault & Brian Heller CSI - CBS- Ingrid Goodyear Desperate Housewives - ABC- Mike Most Entourage - HBO- Mike Most Flashpoint - CBS- Ingrid Goodyear Fringe - FOX- Mike Most & Ingrid Goodyear Ghost Whisperer - CBS- Argyris Theos - 2 perf 35mm Glee - FOX- Ingrid Goodyear - Human Target will replace Glee at midseason. Grey's Anatomy - ABC- Mike Most Heroes - NBC- Mike Most - Chuck replaces Heroes in the spring. House - FOX- Fuji - Mike Most & Eric Adkins Hung - HBO- Ingrid Goodyear Kings - NBC- Ingrid Goodyear Lost - ABC- Mike Most Mad Men - AMC- Mike Most The Mentalist - CBS- Ingrid Goodyear Nip/Tuck - FX- Mike Most Private Practice - ABC- Mike Most True Blood - HBO- Mike Most Two and a Half Men - CBS- Ingrid Goodyear Digital Acquisition: 90210 - CW- Genesis - IMDB Accidentally on Purpose - CBS- Mike Most The Beautiful Life: TBL - CW- Mike Most & Dave Satin - CANCELED Better off Ted - ABC- Mike Most Bones - FOX- Sony F35 - Mike Most & Eric Messerschmidt Bored To Death - HBO- D21 - An Tran Brotherhood - SHOW- Mike Most Brothers - FOX- Mike Most Californication - SHOW- F23 - Mike Most & Randy Wedick Cold Case - CBS- F35 - Patrick Cady & Mike Most FLASHBACKS Ingrid Goodyear Community - NBC- D21 - Mike Most & An Tran Cougar Town - ABC- Mike Most Criminal Minds - CBS- F35 - Mike MostTom McDonnell CSI: Miami - CBS- Mike Most CSI: NY - CBS- F35 - Mike Most & Mark H. Weingartner Damages - FX- F23 - Jendra Jarnagin Dark Blue - TNT- Genesis - IMDB Day One - NBC- Mike Most Defying Gravity - USTV- F35 - Daniel Mulligan - Canada Dexter - SHOW- F23 - Vincent De Paula & Daniel Mulligan Dollhouse - FOX- Panasonic 3700 - Mike Most FlashForward - ABC- Mike Most The Forgotten - ABC- Mike Most Gary Unmarried - CBS- Mike Most The Good Wife - CBS- Mike Most & Dave Satin Gossip Girl - CW- F23 - Dave Satin & Randy Wedick Hank - ABC- Mike Most HawthoRNe - TNT- ARRI D21 - IMDB How I Met Your Mother - CBS- Mike Most Human Target - FOX- Mike Most In Treatment - HBO- Sony 950 - Jendra Jarnagin Law & Order - NBC- Genesis - Mark H. Weingartner & Jendra Jarnagin Law & Order: Criminal Intent - USA- originally submitted as Digital by Mike Most, amended to 16 mm then back to Digital by ARRI via Greg Lowry Law & Order: SVU - NBC- Mike Most Leverage - TNT- Red One & Sony EX1 - Randy Wedick Lie to Me - FOX- Mike Most Medium - CBS- Genesis - Randy Wedick Melrose Place - CW- F35 - Mike Most Mental - FOX- F23 and 900R - Graham Futerfas Mercy - NBC- Mike Most & Dave Satin - Parenthood replaces Mercy in spring. Modern Family - ABC- Mike Most Murderland - ?????- F35 - Daniel Mulligan - Will delete if not confirmed NCIS - CBS- Mike Most NCIS: Los Angeles - CBS- Mike Most New Adventures of Old Christine - CBS- Mike Most Numbers - CBS- Genesis - Mike Most & Randy Wedick Nurse Jackie - SHOW- ARRI D21 - Mike Most, Dave Satin & An Tran The Office - NBC- Sony - Google Parenthood - NBC- Genesis - Mike Most & IMDB Parks and Recreation - NBC- Mike Most Past Life - FOX- Mike Most Royal Pains - USA- F23 - Jendra Jarnagin The Sarah Silverman Program - Comedy Central- Red - Rhet Bear Sherri - Lifetime- Dave Satin Smallville - CW- Mike Most Sons Of Anarchy - FX- S Peterson Southland - NBC- Red 1, Iconix - Bruce Johnson Supernanny - ABC- Mike Most Supernatural - CW- D21 - An Tran Three Rivers - CBS- Mike Most 'Til Death - FOX- Mike Most Trauma - NBC- Mike Most & Rod Williams - Day One replaces Trauma in the spring. The Tudors - SHOW- Mike Most Ugly Betty - ABC- Jendra Jarnagin & Mike Most V - ABC- ARRI D21 - An Tran Vampire Diaries - CW- Mike Most Warehouse 13 - SYFY- Genesis - Millimeter Weeds - SHOW- Mike Most White Collar - USA- Dave Satin" --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From pickettscharge at hotmail.com Mon Sep 28 22:51:03 2009 From: pickettscharge at hotmail.com (Dave Pickett) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:51:03 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Flat scans to SR In-Reply-To: <9CBE5E7C-655B-4D1F-A829-B6A44EA3ACA2@autotv.co.uk> References: <986.99731254087843.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> <33DE635A-B75F-4CBB-B91F-5A47F0DF7D11@prestodigital.ca> Message-ID: The quality versus quantity issue is currently the biggest issue in my career. Telecine was always a bastion of high technology delivering images at the top of ability. We loved film transferred to video because it offered so much range and resolution and it looked great (still does). Film was the capture medium and either film or video was the deliverable. We are in the midst of a disruptive technology curve much greater than we were with analog to digital. Facilities and manufacturers dont know whether to aim for higher quality images or lower. And our clients rely on us to help guide them in their purchase decisions. Is our consumer satisfied with good enough? Are they influenced anymore by outstanding images as we believed them to be? If you had to bet your ass would it be higher end or lower end? That is what I am finding gripping most companies these days. These days it is keeping existing technologies while dabbling in so many others. I hope for a digital future that can accommodate what we need as colorists and owners. We are not there yet and with the mixed market signals I am not surprised. A high resolution, high dynamic range camera/post standard that can be easily converted to deliver anywhere. The proprietary file based cameras and limitless permutations of film to data to video to file are weighing us and our partners down. I look forward to whatever it is that we can all agree on and get back to serious imagery again. Dave Dave Pickett Colorist www.davepickett.com From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 29 00:11:32 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:11:32 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Current Classifieds Message-ID: <3084159D-1470-44C8-B119-6642C7BFDBF7@colorist.org> Here are the current classified ads as shown at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Please advise me by return mail if any of these ads are outdated, thank you. New Ad: • 1-Year Old Aaton Keylink for Sale • Purchased Brand New in 2008 • Keylink UCR "Touchless" 6-Camera Reader Head • PCB40 Siemens Computer • Digital Insertion Option • 16mm Keycode Option • 35mm 3-Perf Option • Flawless condition Currently configured at SD for a sale price of $11,000. Easy upgrade to HD possible. email: keylinkforsale at gmail.com Available Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant Worldwide Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor, Consultant, Manager. Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant- Instructor-Writer Adam Halasz colourist Jon Mendenhall - Assistant Colourist, Chicago Bosch 444 Quadra in perfect working condition, just taken out of service Loaded Davinci 2K Plus for Sale USA $100,000 USD Celco Fury Film recorder Wanted Wanted, Dual Channel AJA frame grabber card. Wanted, working Dolby CA10 camera systems. Northlight One Scanner Aaton Keycode head Product Specialist/Demo Artist North Hollywood, CA USA -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 29 01:20:12 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:20:12 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: <1254173258.5180.20.camel@ywwg> References: <1254173258.5180.20.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <9FBD7F40-EE06-4DD9-A2D9-6DCE4D00ABFE@colorist.org> On Sep 28, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Owen Williams wrote: > thought the image was quite dark and murky in some interior shots. I > can understand going for a moody image, but it was hard to make out > details. According to this page, Flash Forward is shot using an F35: > http://electronicsblog.sel.sony.com/sony/photo_detail/?albumid=5319879137744099006 according to the literature, the F 35 "Has the Same Dynamic Range as Film." At 14 stops. But you must use the S-Log via the Cine Mode setting. Perhaps this mode wasn't engaged? There's also Custom Mode, which allows in-camera colour correction. It was just a week or so ago that I mentioned the thought that colorists would be in demand on-set. With this camera, I think the operator does have to know quite a bit about gamma; there are 4 types of preset HyperGamma curves. > Is there a web page out there that lists what shows use which cameras? > Maybe that's something for the wiki. There might already be such a resource; If I set up the database, will you enter the info Owen? :) (wiki rule: he who suggests, gets ball rolling) I'm doing 3 or 4 grading facilities per day on the Facility Table at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable and I'm about halfway through, still need photos of suites. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 29 01:30:43 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:30:43 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > Here is a list compiled by Paul K. Miller (dfits at earthlink.net) over > on the > Cinematography Mailing List: > > "This is a whole new take on US TV Production. It is based on a > spreadsheet > derived from TV Guide's Schedule TV Guide is listing capture media? Next thing you know Encyclopedia Britannica will be publishing hiphop charts for single-note synth riffs. Great chart, would be glad to put it on the TIG wiki, if given permission by those who authored it. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Sep 29 02:01:24 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:01:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Bob Kertesz wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2031 subscribers in September 2009 > ==== > > I haven't seen it, so can't comment on image quality, but Desperate Housewives > is being shot on 35mm, just like every previous season, AFAIK. >From what I have seen thus far, these ABC shows (all with Mike Most) are all suffering from quite severe contrast problems: Brothers & Sisters, Grey's Anatomy, and Desperate Housewives Of these, Grey's Anatomy came out best, but it is a mostly indoors show whereas Desperate Housewives and Brothers & Sisters include many sunlight scenes. > Here is a list compiled by Paul K. Miller (dfits at earthlink.net) over on the > Cinematography Mailing List: Probably an incorrect list. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 29 02:15:18 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:15:18 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: >> From what I have seen thus far, these ABC shows (all with Mike Most) > are all suffering from quite severe contrast problems: > > Brothers & Sisters, Grey's Anatomy, and Desperate Housewives I'm not sure that the name at the end of the line for each show corresponds to the colorist- if that's the implication - perhaps it's the name of the source of the information. Chef in Hell's Kitchen, NY: Check your sauces! -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com Tue Sep 29 02:28:17 2009 From: erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:28:17 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Desperate Housewives is finished here at Modern VideoFilm. There was a change of colorists this season as Shaley Brooks who has done the last several seasons moved on to another facility and another show. One of my closest friends is the dailies colorist for the last few seasons. There is also at least one new DP. Erik Hansen Datalab/Digital Media Modern VideoFilm --- If you understand everything, you must be misinformed. - Proverb, (Japanese) From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Sep 29 03:27:09 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:27:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Erik Hansen wrote: > Desperate Housewives is finished here at Modern VideoFilm. There was a change > of colorists this season as Shaley Brooks who has done the last several > seasons moved on to another facility and another show. One of my closest > friends is the dailies colorist for the last few seasons. There is also at > least one new DP. Do you know if ABC decided to switch these shows to digital-capture at the very last minute, or is it really possible that a change in colorists and DP could make this level of difference? The Desperate Housewives show has many scenes involving windows and a bright sunny day. It takes quite a lot of dynamic range to capture this properly. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From NJK at cbsnews.com Tue Sep 29 04:13:54 2009 From: NJK at cbsnews.com (Kassner, Neal) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:13:54 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital References: Message-ID: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9175C7557@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> I've watched this list grow on CML over the past several weeks, having been carefully researched, compiled, and revised. It eventually spawned a UK version as well. To dismiss it out of hand as "probably an incorrect list" does a disservice to Mr. Miller and the sources he reached out to. Just my 2 cents. Neal Kassner Colorist CBS News/NY From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Sep 29 04:30:39 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:30:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9175C7557@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9175C7557@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Kassner, Neal wrote: > I've watched this list grow on CML over the past several weeks, having been carefully > researched, compiled, and revised. It eventually spawned a UK version as well. To dismiss > it out of hand as "probably an incorrect list" does a disservice to Mr. Miller and the > sources he reached out to. Just my 2 cents. It was not dismissed "out of hand" because I watched the first shows of the new season and saw a drastic difference. Decisions are always subject to change. Have you seen these new episodes? Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From adrian at autotv.co.uk Tue Sep 29 10:08:46 2009 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:08:46 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: <1254173258.5180.20.camel@ywwg> References: <1254173258.5180.20.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <2DC68F13-0625-4657-BC41-E28B9844808E@autotv.co.uk> I watched the UK premiere of Flashforward last night and also thought the image quite poor. Almost every shot looked like it was exposed for the highlights and there was little fill light to compensate. Colour was generally weak and murky. As for the script... -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION 35 BEDFORDBURY LONDON WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- On 28 Sep 2009, at 22:27, Owen Williams wrote: > > I was watching the pilot for "Flash Forward" (over cable HDTV) and > thought the image was quite dark and murky in some interior shots. I > can understand going for a moody image, but it was hard to make out > details. According to this page, Flash Forward is shot using an F35: > http://electronicsblog.sel.sony.com/sony/photo_detail/? > albumid=5319879137744099006 > > Is there a web page out there that lists what shows use which cameras? > Maybe that's something for the wiki. From erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com Tue Sep 29 06:47:53 2009 From: erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:47:53 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, Just to be clear... Desperate Housewives is shot in film. There is no digital capture involved (AFAIK). Even VFX backplates are shot on film. If i recall correctly, a season or two ago they used 5 Panavision film cameras to shoot driving plates. Seeing a show in a colorist's bay can be quite different then what you see at home. Erik --- If you understand everything, you must be misinformed. - Proverb, (Japanese) On Sep 28, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Erik Hansen wrote: > >> Desperate Housewives is finished here at Modern VideoFilm. There >> was a change of colorists this season as Shaley Brooks who has done >> the last several seasons moved on to another facility and another >> show. One of my closest friends is the dailies colorist for the >> last few seasons. There is also at least one new DP. > > Do you know if ABC decided to switch these shows to digital-capture > at the very last minute, or is it really possible that a change in > colorists and DP could make this level of difference? > > The Desperate Housewives show has many scenes involving windows and > a bright sunny day. It takes quite a lot of dynamic range to > capture this properly. > > Bob > -- > Bob Friesenhahn > bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From jack at surrealroad.com Tue Sep 29 11:43:52 2009 From: jack at surrealroad.com (Jack James) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:43:52 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Take numbering with multiple cameras Message-ID: Hi all, Hopefully this is an easy one: Is the “standard” way to number slates on a multi-camera shoot so that each camera is given the same slate and take number? For instance, camera A, B, C are all slated sc.20A take 2? Does this work in the same way when numbering shots sequentially (i.e. the first shot of the day is 100, the second is 101 etc, regardless of the camera)? Thanks Jack -- Surreal Road Emmunicate Insatiably... www.surrealroad.com Please recycle this email to prevent excess bytes clogging up the internet Sent from Leicester, Eng, United Kingdom From mfw at musictrax.com Tue Sep 29 14:24:47 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:24:47 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Take numbering with multiple cameras In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/29/09 3:43 AM, "Jack James" asked on the TIG: > Is the ³standard² > way to number slates on a multi-camera shoot so that each camera is given the > same slate and take number? For instance, camera A, B, C are all slated sc.20A > take 2? Does this work in the same way when numbering shots sequentially > (i.e. the first shot of the day is 100, the second is 101 etc, regardless > of the camera)? >------------------------------------------------------------< England and the U.S. use radically different methods for keeping track of scenes/slates and takes. The U.S. primarily uses scene numbers, based on script order; the U.K. uses primarily a slate number, based on the number of shots in the production, in production order. This is all decided upon by the script supervisor, the editor, and the assistant editor before a frame of footage is shot. In terms of the post facility and/or digital dailies, I think the best course is to ask them what they want. American multicamera shows sometimes add the camera letter (A/B/C/X) as a suffix to the take number ("29-2A"), but not always. It boils down to preference. Various methods are outlined here: Script Supervising and Film Continuity by Pat P. Miller published by Focal Press [ISBN #0240802942] This goes over the methodology behind scene numbering and organization in excruciating detail. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From Peter.White at uea.ac.uk Tue Sep 29 16:45:17 2009 From: Peter.White at uea.ac.uk (White Peter Mr (EAFA)) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:45:17 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Tektronix 528 PSU circuit diagrams Message-ID: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0AACDFCD41@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK> Hi all, Does anyone have the circuit diagrams for (at the very least) the power supply of a Tektronix 528 Waveform monitor, if not the entire unit? Cheers, Peter White Head of Technical Development East Anglian Film Archive From dlt at earthlink.net Wed Sep 30 02:24:18 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:24:18 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AC2B342.5030901@earthlink.net> Rob Lingelbach wrote: > I'm not sure that the name at the end of the line for each show > corresponds to the > colorist- if that's the implication - perhaps it's the name of the > source of the information. As mentioned by Neal Kassner, the list was compiled by the CML Film group. Geoff intends to publish it on the CML web site. I would ask his permission before adding it to the TIG. The name at the end of the line is the "authority" for information about the origination format. Mike Most was able to supply a great deal of information about shows in production. Please don't blame him for the look of the show! ;-) Rob, if Geoff would like to have the TIG provide an update-able version of the list, I would like to help. David Tosh From irichardson at cuttingedge.com.au Wed Sep 30 00:14:05 2009 From: irichardson at cuttingedge.com.au (Ian Richardson) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:14:05 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: <2DC68F13-0625-4657-BC41-E28B9844808E@autotv.co.uk> References: <1254173258.5180.20.camel@ywwg> <2DC68F13-0625-4657-BC41-E28B9844808E@autotv.co.uk> Message-ID: <3F5E20D66164884C893C00EF95161925D0A631@syd-exchange1.ce-bne.cuttingedge> Flashforward premiered in OZ this week also....I have to agree with the comments below. I have noticed over the last few years, in my opinion, many prime time shows manufactured in the US have seemed to 'drift' to the 'Dark and Murky'. >From series to series or as new shows commence. Is this a case of 'flavour of the follow the leader' or, dare I say it, a reflection of the national mood in progressively harsher financial times. I have not noticed this collective moodiness from shows from the UK for example. They have a regular and generally 'sunnier' consistency from series to series. Interesting Regards Richo Sydney From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 30 03:35:27 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:35:27 -0300 Subject: [Tig] AZCAR acquires Matchframe Video Message-ID: from a news release at http://tinyurl.com/yzuj6ou AZCAR Acquires Matchframe Video - Sept. 29 2009, Burbank, CA -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin, founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 30 03:45:35 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:45:35 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: <4AC2B342.5030901@earthlink.net> References: <4AC2B342.5030901@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3851D78C-ABC9-4DCF-9FF2-3C4A632DA7BA@colorist.org> On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:24 PM, David Tosh wrote: > Rob Lingelbach wrote: >> I'm not sure that the name at the end of the line for each show >> corresponds to the >> colorist- if that's the implication - perhaps it's the name of the >> source of the information. > > As mentioned by Neal Kassner, the list was compiled by the CML Film > group. Geoff intends to publish it on the CML web site. I would ask > his permission before adding it to the TIG. Certainly. I believe the original authors would need to be asked as well. > The name at the end of the line is the "authority" for information > about the origination format. Mike Most was able to supply a great > deal of information about shows in production. Please don't blame > him for the look of the show! ;-) aha. that clears that up. There probably was, somewhere, a tabulation at the top that named the columnar categories. > Rob, if Geoff would like to have the TIG provide an update-able > version of the list, I would like to help. Offer gratefully accepted. Will you do the honors of asking him? We can provide all relevant credits, particularly to the authors (MM, et al.) Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Wed Sep 30 11:31:39 2009 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (peter_swinson at compuserve.com) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 06:31:39 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital. Message-ID: <8CC0FD0549BD995-EE4-9C8@angweb-usd019.sysops.aol.com> Call me a cynic but is it possible that even film originated material is being corrected to look like less than perfect digital shoots just so Joe Public do not notice the drop in quality when it finally all goes to digital origination. I am sure this is not the case, or is it ! ? Peter From steve at veralith.com Wed Sep 30 13:41:33 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:41:33 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital In-Reply-To: <3851D78C-ABC9-4DCF-9FF2-3C4A632DA7BA@colorist.org> References: <4AC2B342.5030901@earthlink.net> <3851D78C-ABC9-4DCF-9FF2-3C4A632DA7BA@colorist.org> Message-ID: <66E7EF29-8D7B-4EAC-9062-DC946C7ED452@veralith.com> I too think the list is very accurate. I would love for the TIG to add grading information to the list. What/who grades the show? From gd.tk at comcast.net Wed Sep 30 18:04:14 2009 From: gd.tk at comcast.net (Greg D.) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:04:14 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Burn's Park doc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <862F9A0DFB73459786DA6F76A75A2F7B@ourRZ30> I've been watching this doc this week on PBS. I was wondering if the BBC would "air" this? I seem to recall them being very picky about "crushed blacks." Dowdell & Burns have definitely done the very high contrast look with the imagery. Also, aren't there some "broadcasters" that have been finicky about 16mm for HD? There is a lot of 16mm grain and film weave in this series. It is somewhat nostalgic to see the weave behind the titles and the occasional dust/dirk speck however. BTW, I'm referring to the newly shot ftg, not any archival ftg. The stills (with moves) seem to be very high resolution. -Greg Dildine Colorist in a previous life From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 30 18:11:30 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:11:30 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital. In-Reply-To: <8CC0FD0549BD995-EE4-9C8@angweb-usd019.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC0FD0549BD995-EE4-9C8@angweb-usd019.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1918E845-90AD-462D-AE7D-65B5BEFD8CF0@colorist.org> On Sep 30, 2009, at 7:31 AM, peter_swinson at compuserve.com wrote: > Call me a > cynic but is it possible that even film originated material is being > corrected > to look like less than perfect digital shoots just so Joe Public do > not notice > the drop in quality when it finally all goes to digital origination. > I am sure > this is not the case, or is it ! There has been a style in development recently for grading with very low dynamic range: elevated blacks, compressed whites, everything in the midrange. I don't think it's a coincidence that this evolved at the same time as flatly-lit digital capture. You could also argue that at the same time, improved dynamic range in grading suite monitoring has masked this reduction of dynamic range, until it hits the compressionists of the shopping-channel cram-bandwidth satellite operators, when it returns with a vengeance in transmission. If taken to its limits, eventually we'll see .5% dynamic range which will be a 50% gray field with a slight sensation of color and detail. Reminds one of the seminal 1984 Macintosh commercial, in its 25th anniversary. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin, colorist rob at colorist.org From carl at stopp.se Wed Sep 30 18:15:01 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:15:01 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Arri-D21 Message-ID: Hi Is there anyone that has good experience of Arri D21? If a client shoots Log to SR... send the SR to a posthouse to dub to DV for offline... then his offline will be done from Log material. and the client will think that his material looks way to milky. Is this a workflow option: Load a generic "Log>Lin LUT" on to a Blackmagic-box and feed the SDI through it when doing the dv-dub...? Will a Log>Lin LUT work you think? /carl (no connection with Blackmagic, Sony or Arri. Except for using them:) Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 30 18:20:58 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:20:58 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital. In-Reply-To: <1918E845-90AD-462D-AE7D-65B5BEFD8CF0@colorist.org> References: <8CC0FD0549BD995-EE4-9C8@angweb-usd019.sysops.aol.com> <1918E845-90AD-462D-AE7D-65B5BEFD8CF0@colorist.org> Message-ID: <94624FD2-5388-491E-90D1-04A18CB1CEF4@colorist.org> On Sep 30, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > If taken to its limits, eventually we'll see .5% dynamic range which > will be a 50% gray field with a slight sensation of color and > detail. Reminds one of the seminal 1984 Macintosh commercial, in > its 25th anniversary. btw I meant the art direction of the lemmings and background, not the commercial itself, which when combined with the hammer-thrower became high art. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net Wed Sep 30 18:48:31 2009 From: cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net (=?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYyBMZWpldW5l?=) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:48:31 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Arri-D21 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AC399EF.3070709@free.fr> That could work, but if it's for film output, it can be interesting to have something more like a film emulation LUT, and maybe a one-light correction for the intention. Cedric Lejeune www.workflowers.net pipelines&workflows Lisbon til the end of the week > > Load a generic "Log>Lin LUT" on to a Blackmagic-box and feed the SDI through it when doing the dv-dub...? > Will a Log>Lin LUT work you think? > /carl From craig at optimus.com Wed Sep 30 18:51:28 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:51:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Arri-D21 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <749334837.152171254333088335.JavaMail.root@mx.optimus.com> Hi Carl - We get Arri D-21 footage from time to time, but the same was true of the D-20 or even when using Phantom - When the workflow requires it ( fast turnaround ) we will ask for Log tape from set, and usually get something like Log-C or Log-S kinds of SR Tape. Then, we either; use a Rec709 Lut and render ( Scratch ), T2T through a Davinci 2K, or load it all in a Baselight 8 and CC everything. Just depends on time, how sensitive the Art director or editor are to Log style images, and how much CC will happen in the offline. For immediate turnaround, the Davinci 2K does a fine job of wrestling Log images, you just need to set up a calibration you like and make it work. A rec709 or rec601 Lut will work fine as a dub, but it's like using a sledgehammer - you won't have much control and some things will look unintended. Good luck - CL Optimus Chicago From steve at veralith.com Wed Sep 30 18:47:16 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:47:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Arri-D21 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B1A4013-D34E-4BE9-9D1A-00D6EC63B3CB@veralith.com> I just did an interview with the DP of the ABC series "V" which will premiere in early November. He loves the Arri D21 and shot a number of projects with it prior to "V." He credited his DIT with developing great LUTs which in turn meant great dailies. He did complain that, without a good DIT, he'd had issues with the dailies from the camera, but that the finished product always looked good. Stephen Hullfish author/colorist From ahforums at iris-digital.org Wed Sep 30 21:02:30 2009 From: ahforums at iris-digital.org (ahforums at iris-digital.org) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 06:02:30 +1000 Subject: [Tig] [TIG] Arri-D21 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E304097-F53B-4486-B6A2-E2482BE8353C@iris-digital.org> On 01/10/2009, at 3:23 AM, tig-request at colorist.org wrote: > > Load a generic "Log>Lin LUT" on to a Blackmagic-box and feed the SDI > through it when doing the dv-dub...? > Will a Log>Lin LUT work you think? > /carl Carl, The Arri D21 in my opinion is the first digital camera to produce a 'true' Log image as we know it in the film world. Therefor the use of Film profile 3DLuts is very efficient in this regard, given a good Digital negative. As with all preset Luts it is assumed the exposures are 'on the money'. I would be wary of using 2D Luts though..... I am very soon to release an onset live monitoring application for Apple OSX users that will apply 3DLookups and ASC color correction to the LIve SDI or firewire feed and output to an external screen. It is essentially finished but im in the process of attempting to make it unhackable. Adrian Hauser Cutting Edge EQ Sydney Personal Site all things color for film and digital cinema www.iris-digital.org/wordpress From BobCampbell at astound.net Wed Sep 30 19:04:59 2009 From: BobCampbell at astound.net (Bob Campbell) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:04:59 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Burn's Park doc In-Reply-To: <862F9A0DFB73459786DA6F76A75A2F7B@ourRZ30> References: <862F9A0DFB73459786DA6F76A75A2F7B@ourRZ30> Message-ID: <6176F04A-AB46-41C0-8AFA-80572C4E11D3@astound.net> On Sep 30, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Greg D. wrote: I watched the Ken Burn's, John Muir Parks doc also on PBC. I'm curious about the sky color on most of the wide shots. While the foregrounds looked normal, the sky's looked very cyan-green. Did any one else see this, is this the new sky color, or is my set that far off ? Bob Campbell Colorist From prberg2 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 20:23:26 2009 From: prberg2 at yahoo.com (Peter Berg) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] Burn's Park doc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <884914.31942.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have been watching the doc all week as well and was wondering what people thought of the image quality. I was surprised that it wasn't sharper or clearer. It seems to be a little muddy (similar to the other discussions here) and does not pop. I guess I am comparing it to 'Planet Earth' on Blu-ray. I am watching this doc on over the air HD (which should be the best quality available right?). Is this just a product of the directors vision? When I watch sports they seem to have much more resolution and sharpness. I know that sports are 30frame vs 24frame (right?) but it seems that there is something else going on. Greg... are you saying that the 'new' park footage was all shot on 16mm? I guess that would cause the image to be a little soft? Just curious about what others think... I guess I was expecting more from the images. -Peter >> >I've been watching this doc this week on PBS. I was wondering if the BBC >would "air" this? I seem to recall them being very picky about "crushed >blacks." Dowdell & Burns have definitely done the very high contrast look >with the imagery. Also, aren't there some "broadcasters" that have been >finicky about 16mm for HD? There is a lot of 16mm grain and film weave in >this series. It is somewhat nostalgic to see the weave behind the titles >and the occasional dust/dirk speck however. BTW, I'm referring to the >newly >shot ftg, not any archival ftg. The stills (with moves) seem to be very >high resolution. >-Greg Dildine >Colorist in a previous life From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 30 21:15:10 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:15:10 -0300 Subject: [Tig] [TIG] Arri-D21 In-Reply-To: <9E304097-F53B-4486-B6A2-E2482BE8353C@iris-digital.org> References: <9E304097-F53B-4486-B6A2-E2482BE8353C@iris-digital.org> Message-ID: <3C3945D4-E983-4349-8206-799FF6438FEB@colorist.org> On Sep 30, 2009, at 5:02 PM, ahforums at iris-digital.org wrote: > Carl, > The Arri D21 in my opinion is the first digital camera to produce a > 'true' Log image as we know it in the film world. I was involved in a camera shootout not long ago and the D21 was breathtaking, and that image quality was a joy to work with in grading. Rejuvenated my eyes, and attitude toward digital capture. As close to 35mm as I'd seen, yet with its own gentle and penetrating characteristics. Rob (I am not compensated by Arri though I have many projects in mind for the D21) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Wed Sep 30 22:56:07 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:56:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Burn's Park doc In-Reply-To: <884914.31942.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <884914.31942.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Peter Berg wrote: > I have been watching the doc all week as well and was wondering what > people thought of the image quality. I was surprised that it wasn't > sharper or clearer. It seems to be a little muddy (similar to the > other discussions here) and does not pop. I guess I am comparing it > to 'Planet Earth' on Blu-ray. I am watching this doc on over the > air HD (which should be the best quality available right?). This week I notice that ABC's "Castle" looks a bit "muddy" but it looked the same last year. Definitition is not fully there. Maybe 1/2 HDTV resolution at best. The new show "The Good Wife" has reasonable images but the resolution is not fully there either. Maybe 700 lines of actual resolution. In the earlier days of HD it was common to see images which used the full resolution of the TV and really popped. Now that HD is more common it seems that 1/2 the resolution and dingy images are quickly becoming the norm. It is common that the advertisements look much nicer than the shows. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From carl at stopp.se Wed Sep 30 23:11:47 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 00:11:47 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Arri-D21 In-Reply-To: <4AC399EF.3070709@free.fr> References: , <4AC399EF.3070709@free.fr> Message-ID: It's mostly for TV commercials... I'm trying to "mimic" the Red workflow-ish. With Red you could say that it shoots RAW but outputs a Rec709 (or RedSpace) signal for offline (I know, it doesn't output it as a separate signal, it alows us to view thr r3d with a rec709/redspace-LUT applyed) So if a DoP shoots with a Arri-D21 he can select the output to be linear or Log. So if he selected Log... it should be possible to apply a LUT that turnes the signal into a picture that looks like if it was set to Lin output. In theory it should work. Sure the idea of having a DiT making LUTs for every setup during the shoot would be great... but it feels like its too much of a hasle for some jobs. And running a SR-tape through a DaVinci2K just to make a dub seems like an overkill. Its almost that I would rather ingest the Log-look into the Avid/FCP and just apply a simple grade in the edit. If you shoot Arri-D21 and still have to do a traditional onelight... you might aswell shoot on film (price wise I mean) I remember that with some kind of Panasonic camera you could select "FilmGamma" or something like that. That pretty much lifted the gamma up to give more detail, trying to fake a Log-image. On the "DVC-Pro HD" VTR you could then select an "inverse" gamma adjustment so it puches the gamma back down so the image looks nice again. You could do that for offline, and then when doing the final grade... you turn the VTR-gamma to off to get the best range to work from. It's something like that I'm thinking about. (Maybe the best way is to have a AJA Ki Pro atached on the second SDI-output, and have that output set to Lin, and capture Prores QT simultanious as making the SR on set. That way the editor could get his QT and I can get the SR for grading later.) /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 ________________________________________ From: Cédric Lejeune [lejeune.cedric at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Cédric Lejeune [cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 19:48 To: Carl Skaff Cc: tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] Arri-D21 That could work, but if it's for film output, it can be interesting to have something more like a film emulation LUT, and maybe a one-light correction for the intention. Cedric Lejeune www.workflowers.net pipelines&workflows Lisbon til the end of the week > > Load a generic "Log>Lin LUT" on to a Blackmagic-box and feed the SDI through it when doing the dv-dub...? > Will a Log>Lin LUT work you think? > /carl