From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Wed Oct 21 19:45:13 2009
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:45:13 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1256150750.17148.tig@colorist.org>

Steve


Steve Shaw
Digital Praxis Ltd.
+44(0)7765 400 908
steve at digitalpraxis.net
www.digitalpraxis.net




From rob at colorist.org  Thu Oct  1 01:42:10 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:42:10 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Burn's Park doc
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0909301649440.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <884914.31942.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0909301649440.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <3165DB97-8D05-46AE-96B0-8408D547A102@colorist.org>


On Sep 30, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:

> It is common that the advertisements look much nicer than the shows.

Could you record a frame of each and scope the resolution?

--  
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org













From rcurrier at synthetic-ap.com  Thu Oct  1 01:48:13 2009
From: rcurrier at synthetic-ap.com (Bob Currier)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:48:13 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Burn's Park doc
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0909301649440.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <884914.31942.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0909301649440.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <20091001004813.1771629446@smarthost.coxmail.com>

Bob:

I'm not sure how you're receiving these programs, but OTA broadcasters,
cable companies, and satellite broadcasters are all cutting back on the
bandwidth they allocate to individual programs.

In the case of OTA it's so they can do multicasting, mostly of weather
reports and infomercials, at least here in LA.

Cable companies have very limited bandwidth over the cable and everyone
wants more HD channels. Same with the satellite people.

So I'd say it's impossible for anyone to sit at home and determine the
quality of the original program by what we see on our televisions, no
matter how good or calibrated that TV might be. The fact that a show
looks different this year (digital camera) than last year (film) may say
more about the change in bandwidth than it does about digital vs. film.
Watching TV at home is no way to judge acquisition equipment; there's
just too many variables in the chain.

None of which, of course, eliminates the fact that there are some
producers making (IMHO) very poor decisions about the "look" of their
shows. Looks that don't survive the reduced bandwidth world they are
shown in aren't very smart looks to choose.

----- 
Bob Currier                                  rcurrier at synthetic-ap.com
Synthetic Aperture                           voice: +1 949 493-3444
Helping Make Your Work Look Its Best         fax:   +1 949 203-2108
                                             web:   www.synthetic-ap.com

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 2:56 PM, Bob Friesenhahn
<bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote:

>Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.
>2031 subscribers in September 2009
>AJA http://aja.com supports the TIG
>See new TIG wiki at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3
>====
>
>On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Peter Berg wrote:
>
>> I have been watching the doc all week as well and was wondering what 
>> people thought of the image quality.  I was surprised that it wasn't 
>> sharper or clearer.  It seems to be a little muddy (similar to the 
>> other discussions here) and does not pop.  I guess I am comparing it 
>> to 'Planet Earth' on Blu-ray.  I am watching this doc on over the 
>> air HD (which should be the best quality available right?).
>
>This week I notice that ABC's "Castle" looks a bit "muddy" but it 
>looked the same last year.  Definitition is not fully there.  Maybe 
>1/2 HDTV resolution at best.
>
>The new show "The Good Wife" has reasonable images but the resolution 
>is not fully there either.  Maybe 700 lines of actual resolution.
>
>In the earlier days of HD it was common to see images which used the 
>full resolution of the TV and really popped.  Now that HD is more 
>common it seems that 1/2 the resolution and dingy images are quickly 
>becoming the norm.
>
>It is common that the advertisements look much nicer than the shows.
>
>Bob
>--
>Bob Friesenhahn
>bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
>GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://reels.colorist.org
>http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3




From cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net  Thu Oct  1 09:30:32 2009
From: cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net (=?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYyBMZWpldW5l?=)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:30:32 +0200
Subject: [Tig] Arri-D21
In-Reply-To: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5212@exchange.stopp.se>
References: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B520E@exchange.stopp.se>,
	<4AC399EF.3070709@free.fr>
	<C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5212@exchange.stopp.se>
Message-ID: <4AC468A8.0@free.fr>

Carl Skaff a écrit :

"Sure the idea of having a DiT making LUTs for every setup during the shoot would be great... but it feels like its too much of a hasle for some jobs."

Not sure it would be great, since having a set of meaningless LUT (as they depend on the viewing environment) doesn't do much good in post.
For the LUT process box in the path it shouldn't make any pb if it doesn't introduce any delay.

Cedric Lejeune
www.workflowers.net
pipelines&workflows
currently in Lisbon




From Peter.White at uea.ac.uk  Thu Oct  1 14:39:26 2009
From: Peter.White at uea.ac.uk (White Peter Mr (EAFA))
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:39:26 +0100
Subject: [Tig] A bit of fun...
Message-ID: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0AACDFCD4E@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK>

Just spotted on Engadget, though I'm sure some of you saw it at the IBC.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/01/video-comptometer-does-broadcast-controls-the-steampunk-way/#continued


Peter White
Head of Technical Development
East Anglian Film Archive


From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct  4 07:05:36 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 03:05:36 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Colorist Directory
Message-ID: <32FD4E87-6F7B-4FCC-9780-964A34B32A12@colorist.org>

A new feature on the TIG wiki:  Colorist Directory.

http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist
It should be clear from the URL how to add your entry.

An example here:

http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Test_colorist

--
Rob Lingelbach    TIG admin/founder
rob at colorist.org














From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct  4 13:33:56 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 09:33:56 -0300
Subject: [Tig] new film format
Message-ID: <A085A9F4-08AB-469A-8BD9-80D130F6DE6C@colorist.org>

As the economic crisis still affects film production, Ansco has  
introduced a new film, with hyperfine grain.  Apparently the gauge  
will satisfy even the tightest budgets, at just pennies per meter.    
Bionanotechnology brings the size of the medium to less than the width  
of a human hair, which has been proven to last 10 centuries, thereby  
satisfying all archival requirements.  Quick proxy screening of the  
film will be available with special pocketable digital microscopes.   
Sample, immediate audiences can be made available in vials from the  
same pocket, of which the name of the new medium derives:  Flea-cheer  
Films.

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org














From jamworks at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  4 20:42:42 2009
From: jamworks at earthlink.net (John A. Mozzer)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:42:42 -0700
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
Message-ID: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>

Is anyone on this forum willing to comment on why the sprocket holes are 
momentarily visible in one of the Rank Cintel transfers of my dad's 
silent regular 8mm films?  (I'm not a telecine professional; I hired a 
service to do the transfers.)  What is the most likely reason this 
happened?  Did the film simply weave, and the telecine technician didn't 
notice it, or let it go?  Please look for it between 1:56 - 1:58 
(minutes: seconds) in this edited clip I've created for YouTube:

Al, Anna & Alanna Mozzer, Cumberland, MD, 1953
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtEbeRThH-0

or find it at:
http://www.youtube.com/mozzermemories

Thank you,
John A. Mozzer
Los Angeles, CA

P.S.   In many cases, when editing these clips, I kept splices in on 
purpose, to preserve the "film look".  Ha! Ha!



From holdtheglockagainstyourhead at comcast.net  Sun Oct  4 21:48:49 2009
From: holdtheglockagainstyourhead at comcast.net (brian thomas)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 16:48:49 -0400
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
In-Reply-To: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1254689329.4366.12.camel@solace.hsd1.pa.comcast.net.>

if they were actually using a rank i would say it looks to me like the
film jumped out of the gate after the splice which is a problem
depending on the design of the gate that they are using. however, in my
opinion your transfer looks to be shot with a video camera. if you
notice the pan right before you see the sprocket holes nothing in the
scene moves except for the position of the image. i.e. someone moved the
camera slightly, then quickly repositioned it. either way, the tech
doing your transfer should have done a pickup.



brian thomas

colorist
debenham media group
www.mymovietransfer.com




From patrick at bluegiraffe.tv  Sun Oct  4 21:35:33 2009
From: patrick at bluegiraffe.tv (Patrick Morgan)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 13:35:33 -0700
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
In-Reply-To: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
References: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000501ca4532$394eb020$abec1060$@tv>

John

At the risk of sounding like a smartass...the sprocket holes do even more to add to the film look.. ;-)

Don't have the answer to your question though.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of John A. Mozzer
Sent: 04 October 2009 12:43 PM
To: tig at colorist.org
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer

Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.
2035 subscribers in October 2009
AJA http://aja.com supports the TIG
**Add your entry to the Colorist Directory at
http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist
====

Is anyone on this forum willing to comment on why the sprocket holes are 
momentarily visible in one of the Rank Cintel transfers of my dad's 
silent regular 8mm films?  (I'm not a telecine professional; I hired a 
service to do the transfers.)  What is the most likely reason this 
happened?  Did the film simply weave, and the telecine technician didn't 
notice it, or let it go?  Please look for it between 1:56 - 1:58 
(minutes: seconds) in this edited clip I've created for YouTube:

Al, Anna & Alanna Mozzer, Cumberland, MD, 1953
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtEbeRThH-0

or find it at:
http://www.youtube.com/mozzermemories

Thank you,
John A. Mozzer
Los Angeles, CA

P.S.   In many cases, when editing these clips, I kept splices in on 
purpose, to preserve the "film look".  Ha! Ha!

_______________________________________________
http://reels.colorist.org
http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3




From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct  4 23:05:46 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 19:05:46 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Television Production, US, Fall 2009
In-Reply-To: <4AC9171F.3010400@earthlink.net>
References: <4AC8E36D.1040203@earthlink.net> <4AC8EFF5.9030707@earthlink.net>
	<6E2ADCE5-098D-4ED8-B4A5-DF7D65D3644A@colorist.org>
	<4AC90A08.7030306@earthlink.net>
	<D2292042-FB07-4F34-9735-A5C079A64549@colorist.org>
	<4AC9171F.3010400@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <38B0E32F-3B8C-41DB-B8AA-2F6C182EC5F7@colorist.org>

This is my response to Paul K. Miller's recent message to the TIG  
regarding his exclusion from the group.

It does not include any of his comments so can be posted without his  
permission, though I feel safe in saying he would not mind its content.
---------------------------
Tig-admin speaking (rob at colorist.org).. as of October 5, 2009.

Anyone excluded, for reasons other than that they expound commercial  
interests, is an exclusion made in error.  For which I take  
responsibility.

In another angle toward the possible discussions, I have learned that  
the manufacuturers/vendors, though strident in their promotion, can be  
just the same informative in their replies, so I have relaxed my  
former rules to allow these responses.

we are in tough times for all and need to adjust, I guess.  still i  
try to ask that posters to the TIG disclaim their interest in whatever  
they are promoting.  Which:

gives rise to the "claimer" which is not recognized by those who post  
with this as their
thrust.  An example serves:

Jim Jones says "well I think we can solve all your problems, and we  
have x software that exactly does the trick!!!!"

The most likely end-statement by him/her is "we are the vendors of ...  
and we are so interested in you..."

NOW, how to deal with this?   The fact is  that  Jim Jones is not  
disclaiming anything.  Rather he is "CLAIMING" an interest in posting  
this message.   which, by TIG rules (simple ones) is disallowed.  It's  
a CLAIMER, not a DISCLAIMER.   Yet, he appends to the message:   
"Disclaimer: we sell......".

Not to dissuade Jim Jones' posting to the TIG, it in fact can be very  
informative.  Yet, he has the option, given by his mail client, of  
responding DIRECTLY to the sender, rather than broadcasting the  
repsonse to 2000 subscribers.  That is the key.


--
Rob Lingelbach  Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder
rob at colorist.org














From e.chalaron at xtra.co.nz  Sun Oct  4 23:27:57 2009
From: e.chalaron at xtra.co.nz (E Chalaron)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:27:57 +1300
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
In-Reply-To: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
References: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4AC9216D.1050207@xtra.co.nz>

Have you noticed if your film is curved there. It happens with decay,
film is becoming brittle and curve.
Although I am not sure if that explains why in your particular case.
Regards
E

> Is anyone on this forum willing to comment on why the sprocket holes
> are momentarily visible in one of the Rank Cintel transfers of my
> dad's silent regular 8mm films?  (I'm not a telecine professional; I
> hired a service to do the transfers.)  What is the most likely reason
> this happened?  Did the film simply weave, and the telecine technician
> didn't notice it, or let it go?  Please look for it between 1:56 -
> 1:58 (minutes: seconds) in this edited clip I've created for YouTube:
>
> Al, Anna & Alanna Mozzer, Cumberland, MD, 1953
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtEbeRThH-0
>
> or find it at:
> http://www.youtube.com/mozzermemories
>
> Thank you,
> John A. Mozzer
> Los Angeles, CA
>
> P.S.   In many cases, when editing these clips, I kept splices in on
> purpose, to preserve the "film look".  Ha! Ha!
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://reels.colorist.org
> http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3



From ken at flight4.org  Mon Oct  5 00:02:44 2009
From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:02:44 -0300
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
In-Reply-To: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
References: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <95A9E938AC334595BF7F4BA7B4D5A427@FLIGHT4>

IMHO, inspect the film yourself. See if there is anything on the film edge
to disrupt the path through the gate. 

If all is clean and the splices are in reasonable condition ask for a
retransfer.

It's a bit tricky to see with the pixelised YouTube video if it's a Cintel
TX. It could easily be, and most probably is. 

The tx guy probably thought you wouldn't notice with all the flair, dirt and
scratches... BUT, seems that you did!!!

If the transfer house doesn't like what I have to say, send 'em down to
Argentina, where I will throw bottles of wine at them for you. (Probably
empty ones)

Ken Robinson
(Senior bottle washer)



-----Original Message-----
From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf
Of John A. Mozzer
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 4:43 PM
To: tig at colorist.org
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist
====

Is anyone on this forum willing to comment on why the sprocket holes are 
momentarily visible in one of the Rank Cintel transfers of my dad's 





From bob at bluescreen.com  Mon Oct  5 01:22:50 2009
From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:22:50 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Burn's Park doc
In-Reply-To: <20091001004813.1771629446@smarthost.coxmail.com>
References: <884914.31942.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0909301649440.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<20091001004813.1771629446@smarthost.coxmail.com>
Message-ID: <v6eic5hf6ta28c9db9j4vfdjmq1iu2js0b@4ax.com>

>>This week I notice that ABC's "Castle" looks a bit "muddy" but it 
>>looked the same last year.  Definitition is not fully there.  Maybe 
>>1/2 HDTV resolution at best.

Watching HD from Time Warner Cable on a decently calibrated D65 70" screen,
and I haven't seen that resolution loss.

>>The new show "The Good Wife" has reasonable images but the resolution 
>>is not fully there either.  Maybe 700 lines of actual resolution.

Nor that.

Both shows look quite "normal" to me in terms of HD resolution. What you are
describing almost sounds like an upconverted SD signal (low rez, muddy).

What I have seen, though, is that the first episodes of the two shows
mentioned, and "Bones" as well, seem to be running a shallower gamma curve
than I'm used to seeing. That is to say, it looks like master gamma is around
.55 instead of the .45 "standard", making the images look darker in the low
midrange. I did not find the look unpleasant, just unusual for prime time
episodic network images.

I have yet to see episode two of any of them, although they are on my HD TiVo.
The HD TiVo does not degrade the image past whatever TW and everyone else
before them have done it - it simply records the digital stream and plays it
back at exactly the same quality as the original signal, for good or bad.

I think the look of the shows transitioning to digital is going to change for
the first few episodes at least, while the DP and colorist find common ground.

>>It is common that the advertisements look much nicer than the shows.

It has ever been thus. Likely the budget to correct 42 minutes of primetime
drama is not dissimilar to that for correcting a 30 second national spot.

--Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California
bob at bluescreen.com

The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing.  
For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com




From rob at cinelab.com  Mon Oct  5 02:23:37 2009
From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:23:37 -0400
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
In-Reply-To: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
References: <4AC8FAB2.7080201@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5EE100CE-CE2C-4655-9CAA-CFCB5B234D59@cinelab.com>

> What is the most likely reason this happened?  Did the film simply  
> weave, and the telecine technician didn't notice it, or let it go?


I usually find Reg-8 to be a bit older and depending on how it has  
aged a bit more of a challenge to transfer. I had some this week that  
was mostly good but one 400' reel was very shrunken curled and brittle  
we decided, with the customer, to skip a section because of the effort  
needed to properly scan it.

I looked at your clip and I think this might have been a tape splice  
that maybe did not have perfs that are fully through the tape. I see  
this allot with Reg-8 as much of it has been edited together at the  
shooters home with less that the best splicer or skill.

We usually try to go through all of the film and fix bad splices  
however home movie customers often do not want to pay the full  
archival fees it takes to make all the repairs necessary to get a  
perfect transfer so some compromises are often made with this type of  
material. Perhaps the colorist let the bump go rather than back  
winding the film on the telecine which in certain circumstances fast  
winding the film can cause a break.

I am sure if you contact the facility that transfered the film they  
will want to fix the piece that jumped and if there is an issue with a  
splice or a set of perfs a remedy can be worked out, this is typical  
of a professional facility.

-Rob-


Robert Houllahan
rob at cinelab.com
Vp Cinelab Inc.
www.cinelab.com






From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Mon Oct  5 05:37:02 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 23:37:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] Shooting to Digital
In-Reply-To: <E976A39B-E8B4-4B6C-A1BA-094DE9F2BE92@monkeyswithchopstix.com>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0909281018050.6248@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<h7j2c5pap7tv028l7din6i347b71renidp@4ax.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0909281958530.6248@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<AD681B8F-58A4-454E-AC15-F75B7F8BCE07@monkeyswithchopstix.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0909282122370.6248@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<E976A39B-E8B4-4B6C-A1BA-094DE9F2BE92@monkeyswithchopstix.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910042331400.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Erik Hansen wrote:

> Just to be clear... Desperate Housewives is shot in film. There is no digital 
> capture involved (AFAIK). Even VFX backplates are shot on film. If i recall 
> correctly, a season or two ago they used 5 Panavision film cameras to shoot 
> driving plates.
>
> Seeing a show in a colorist's bay can be quite different then what you see at 
> home.

The good news is that this evening's ABC drama programs ("Desperate 
Housewives" and "Brothers And Sisters") are all cleared up and the 
images look nice as they did before.  Last Sunday the two drama 
programs we watched had serious problems.  Perhaps there was a wrong 
setting in the broadcast hardware.

As for "Gray's Anatomy", the only complaint I have is with the sound 
and the images look quite similar to last year.  It does not work to 
play the music in the surround channels.  Perhaps even this is some 
setup problem at the local station.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From jamworks at earthlink.net  Mon Oct  5 04:46:41 2009
From: jamworks at earthlink.net (John A. Mozzer)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:46:41 -0700
Subject: [Tig] 8mm Film Sprocket Holes Visible in Rank Cintel Transfer
Message-ID: <4AC96C21.7030805@earthlink.net>

Thanks everybody.

The splice you see prior to the footage we are discussing is actually 
not that close to it.  That splice leads to footage that I used in a 
different clip, Cumberland, Maryland, 1953, which is about 25 seconds. 
(The film was clear at that point, so it worked.)  No additional splices 
occur throughout all of Cumberland, Maryland, 1953 footage, and the 
following footage where the sprocket holes are visible in the transfer.

I examined the original film by holding it up to a household light.  The 
sudden camera bump (pan right) mentioned by Brian Thomas, that occurs 
before the part where the sprocket holes are visible, is in the original 
film.

The original film appears to be in good condition (not curled, etc.).  I 
can see lots of flaring in from the holes (as one of you mentioned is 
visible prior to the sharp sprocket holes), some below or above the 
sprocket holes, all of which must have happened in the camera.

But I don't see anything that would disrupt the path through the gate. 
Out of a total of about ten hours of run time that was transferred, this 
is the only place where that occurred.  (I paid for Rank Cintel.)

John A. Mozzer
Los Angeles, CA

P.S.  It's a good thing I don't have presbyopia, though I'm old enough.



From rob at colorist.org  Mon Oct  5 19:47:04 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 15:47:04 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Classifieds update
Message-ID: <14281E6E-AED3-4E5C-9470-CC31F05FD39B@colorist.org>

Engineer needed, NYC:
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Engineer_NYC_20091005

other current ads at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/ 
Classifieds :

	• 1-Year Old Aaton Keylink for Sale
	• Purchased Brand New in 2008
	• Keylink UCR "Touchless" 6-Camera Reader Head
	• PCB40 Siemens Computer
	• Digital Insertion Option
	• 16mm Keycode Option
	• 35mm 3-Perf Option
	• Flawless condition
Currently configured at SD for a sale price of $11,000. Easy upgrade  
to HD possible.
email: keylinkforsale at gmail.com


Available
         1-year old Aaton Keylink for sale
         Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant  Worldwide
	 Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor,  
Consultant, Manager.
         Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist
         Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor- 
Writer
         Adam Halasz colourist
         Jon Mendenhall - Assistant Colourist, Chicago
         Bosch 444 Quadra in perfect working condition, just taken out  
of service
         Loaded Davinci 2K Plus for Sale USA $100,000 USD
         Celco Fury Film recorder

Wanted
         Wanted, Dual Channel AJA frame grabber card.
         Wanted, working Dolby CA10 camera systems.
         Northlight One Scanner
         Aaton Keycode head
         Product Specialist/Demo Artist   North Hollywood, CA USA



--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org














From rob at colorist.org  Tue Oct  6 02:34:37 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:34:37 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Colorist Directory
Message-ID: <6EDC9E8D-94F2-4F3A-9A2C-41218CFE697C@colorist.org>

the Colorist Directory
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist

has the following colorists:

Jef Grosfeld
Jim Mann
Loren White
Martin Wells
Owen Williams
Rick Unger
Rob Lingelbach

and... Test Colorist for working out the fine details in composition.

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin/founder
rob at colorist.org














From rob at colorist.org  Tue Oct  6 03:41:31 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 23:41:31 -0300
Subject: [Tig] vimeo vs colorist.org
Message-ID: <DF0708FF-A880-48CC-9D1F-EF543688D689@colorist.org>

A small indication for those who would like the best and most exposure  
for their colorist reels.


instead of putting your reel on Vimeo, put on http:/ 
reels.colorist.org  and see how
google.com presents your URL in front of all.

rob

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org














From weagles at mac.com  Tue Oct  6 09:49:22 2009
From: weagles at mac.com (warren eagles)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:49:22 +1000
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
Message-ID: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>

Hi,

Tracking ASC color information using CDLs through the whole post  
pipeline including best light,
offline then into a final grade doesn't seem to be used that much?
I know keeping hold of that metadata is not always easy, so what about  
if
the dailies ASC primary grade created in something like Bones Dailies  
could be re inserted into the DPX header.
That way when the images are conformed in Baselight, Resolve, Lustre  
etc the ASC color info could be accessed from
the DPX header with no need for CDLs.

Firstly, is it possible and would it be useful? Very early days but if  
it became a standard would colorists use it and
would the manufacturers be happy to implement it?

cheers

Warren
www.icolorist.com




From BTopazio at company3.com  Tue Oct  6 16:49:38 2009
From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 11:49:38 -0400
Subject: [Tig] CINTEL BOARDS
Message-ID: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340314141C@harbor250ex2.corp.ad>

Holy Crap!

Just cleaning out a closet and found these.  If anyone is interested in
nominal trade value (including TIG SUPPORT), please contact me off-list

 

2 CINTEL SCAN OUTPUT M102111-D w/ SCAN OUTPOUT DACS M102111P3-B daughter

1 CINTEL SCAN OUTPUT M102111-E w/ SCAN OUTPOUT DACS M102111P3-B daughter

1 Extender card

 

 

Bill Topazio
Engineering
COMPANY 3 / METHOD NEW YORK

 



From enigma at turingstudio.com  Tue Oct  6 17:43:24 2009
From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:43:24 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2A6B3492-7B20-4CF6-A8EE-7E8908C2D3D3@turingstudio.com>

Warren,

I think you don't see that because it would result in a looooooooooot  
of duplicated data, unless it was a reference in the DPX header and  
there was a sidecar.

I completely agree with the basic sense of what you posted, but I  
don't think it would be implemented that way. I think decisions in  
that context will always be a sidecar.

_a


--
alexander black
turing & colorflow
888.603.6023 / main
510.666.0074 / direct
root at turingstudio.com



> Tracking ASC color information using CDLs through the whole post  
> pipeline including best light,
> offline then into a final grade doesn't seem to be used that much?
> I know keeping hold of that metadata is not always easy, so what  
> about if
> the dailies ASC primary grade created in something like Bones  
> Dailies could be re inserted into the DPX header.
> That way when the images are conformed in Baselight, Resolve, Lustre  
> etc the ASC color info could be accessed from
> the DPX header with no need for CDLs.
>
> Firstly, is it possible and would it be useful? Very early days but  
> if it became a standard would colorists use it and
> would the manufacturers be happy to implement it?
>
> cheers
>
> Warren
> www.icolorist.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://reels.colorist.org
> http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3




From jpo at prestodigital.ca  Tue Oct  6 17:04:25 2009
From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 10:04:25 -0600
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A5C016C6-7C3C-4C39-9929-EE16824C25FF@prestodigital.ca>

>  what about if
> the dailies ASC primary grade created in something like Bones  
> Dailies could be re inserted into the DPX header.
> That way when the images are conformed in Baselight, Resolve,  
> Lustre etc the ASC color info could be accessed from
> the DPX header with no need for CDLs.
>
> Firstly, is it possible and would it be useful? Very early days but  
> if it became a standard would colorists use it and
> would the manufacturers be happy to implement it?

This has the feel of the metadata currently being imbedded in the RED  
RDC data/folders.  It requires meta-data-aware target applications  
and is utterly dependent on some point of calibrated reference in the  
field, or what you are doing might otherwise be known as  "damage".

Its a nice starting point and its also nice to have a clue what  
someone's preferences as far as look direction might be, but that's  
what all those charts were supposed to be doing for all these  
intervening years... weren't they?  So why is it that we need  
something else?  That might be shading on the rhetorical side.


Joe Owens
Presto!Digital Colourgrade
302-9664 106 Avenue
Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4
+1 780 421-9980
jpo at prestodigital.ca





From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Tue Oct  6 18:42:26 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 12:42:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <2A6B3492-7B20-4CF6-A8EE-7E8908C2D3D3@turingstudio.com>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
	<2A6B3492-7B20-4CF6-A8EE-7E8908C2D3D3@turingstudio.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061236590.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009, alex black wrote:
>
> I think you don't see that because it would result in a looooooooooot of 
> duplicated data, unless it was a reference in the DPX header and there was a 
> sidecar.

The bit of ASC CDL data pertaining to each file is quite small so the 
amount of data is very small.  It is true that this data is likely to 
be constant across many frames.  If you wanted to change the parameter 
used for 1000 files, then you would need to update the header of 1000 
files rather than writing a new XML CDL file for those 1000 files.

The greatest concern is that all software manipulating the images 
would need to be aware of this metadata.  There is not currently a 
provision in the DPX format for it.

There was an attempt a few years ago to refresh the DPX specification 
but it fell flat after some useful discussion (CDL was in process of 
being defined, but was mentioned).

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Tue Oct  6 20:00:36 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:00:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <3096546623980491057@unknownmsgid>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
	<2A6B3492-7B20-4CF6-A8EE-7E8908C2D3D3@turingstudio.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061236590.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<3096546623980491057@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061357480.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009, Jack James wrote:

> Given that adobe is pushing their cinema DNG format around, might be a
> good time to lobby for CDL inclusion...

DNG is a TIFF format for supporting RAW images from digital cameras 
(e.g. Bayer CCD format).  It is a belated attempt to normalize the 
many camera RAW formats into one common wrapper.

Please explain more about how a RAW format could possibly work with 
CDL?

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Tue Oct  6 20:55:24 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:55:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <e9fa7d400910061218h976fe1ct161dd30a030471f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
	<2A6B3492-7B20-4CF6-A8EE-7E8908C2D3D3@turingstudio.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061236590.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<3096546623980491057@unknownmsgid>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061357480.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<e9fa7d400910061218h976fe1ct161dd30a030471f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061454540.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009, Jack James wrote:

> [quote]CinemaDNG is similar to the popular DNG format used for digital still photography but adds
> elements to specifically support digital cinema workflows.[/quote]
> I’m by no means advocating it…

This puts it in a similar position to Red camera RAW format.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/

From dtatut at marquise-tech.com  Tue Oct  6 20:19:21 2009
From: dtatut at marquise-tech.com (Dan Tatut)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:19:21 +0200
Subject: [Tig] Red Rocket users?
Message-ID: <4ACB9839.5060403@marquise-tech.com>

Hi to all,

Any Red Rocket users on the list? I'm looking for some beta-testers. 
Please contact me off-list..

Best regards,

Dan

Dan Tatut

VP Business Strategy & Development

**MARQUISE TECHNOLOGIES SA**

Rue des Avouillons 4

1196 Gland - Switzerland

Tel +41 22 364 54 71

www.marquise-tech.com <http://www.marquise-tech.com/>


From jack at surrealroad.com  Tue Oct  6 19:55:09 2009
From: jack at surrealroad.com (Jack James)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:55:09 +0100
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061236590.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com> 
	<2A6B3492-7B20-4CF6-A8EE-7E8908C2D3D3@turingstudio.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061236590.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <3096546623980491057@unknownmsgid>

Given that adobe is pushing their cinema DNG format around, might be a
good time to lobby for CDL inclusion...

Sent from my iPhone



From jack at surrealroad.com  Tue Oct  6 20:18:12 2009
From: jack at surrealroad.com (Jack James)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:18:12 +0100
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061357480.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com> 
	<2A6B3492-7B20-4CF6-A8EE-7E8908C2D3D3@turingstudio.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061236590.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org> 
	<3096546623980491057@unknownmsgid>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910061357480.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <e9fa7d400910061218h976fe1ct161dd30a030471f6@mail.gmail.com>

[quote]CinemaDNG is similar to the popular DNG format used for digital still
photography but adds elements to specifically support digital cinema
workflows.[/quote]
I’m by no means advocating it…



From stefan at utopiapeople.com  Tue Oct  6 20:22:07 2009
From: stefan at utopiapeople.com (stefan at utopiapeople.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:22:07 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Tig] Freelance colorist needed Sweden
Message-ID: <45268.85.225.143.248.1254856927.squirrel@webmail.utopiapeople.se>


Freelance agency UtopiaPeople (www.utopiapeople.com) is looking for a
skilled scratch colorist for a short contract work.
Our client is a postproduction company based in Gotheburg, Sweden with
international clients.
They need a colorist for 10 days (7-20 December) working with a  
Swedish TV
serie (shot on Red), all sessions supervised by director/DOP.
The client wishes that you have a proven trackrecord working with
demanding clients and experience on working on TV series, feature film  
and
TVCs.
Using the scratch system you are going to grade 4*1 h episodes (you will
get the material conformed and ready for grading).
Daily fee: 500/Eur/day. Company will provide you with free hotel/ 
apartment
during the project and airline tickets, EC citizen prefered.

TO APPLY:
Deadline for applications: 091012 Email job at utopiapeople.com write
"Grading-gothenburg" as subject.
You must be a registered member of UtopiaPeople agency
(www.utopiapeople.com) to apply for this job and future offers (at no
cost)
UtopiaPeople is a professional recruiting agency for postproduction
specialists.




From Erik.Figi at losangeles.af.mil  Tue Oct  6 21:09:04 2009
From: Erik.Figi at losangeles.af.mil (Figi, Erik J SSgt NG AFSPC SMC/HO)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:09:04 -0700
Subject: [Tig] salary range question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.155.1254859281.19731.tig@colorist.org>
References: <mailman.155.1254859281.19731.tig@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <32183C296E7C994DB7B2B8A1B769E48809C9DA8D@la-ncc-ms2nsabb.losangeles.afspc.ds.af.mil>

Afternoon,

I'm conducting research for the establishment of a position in my office. It closely resembles this position advertised at Lowry Digital. What salary range can be expected?

Lowry Digital is currently seeking a Senior Internal Producer for its offices 
in Burbank. Candidates must have hands on post production experience including 
an understanding of the technology, terminology, and processes especially 
those used in Digital Intermediate and Mastering. A thorough familiarity with 
film and video I/O, editorial and conforming, color correction, titling, 
visual F/X and audio is expected. The ideal candidate has experience producing 
digital intermediate, feature mastering and restoration jobs. Candidate must 
be organized, have excellent communication skills, a sense of urgency, a 
strong client-focused attitude, and be able to balance the needs of the 
facility and clients and the ability in a highly technical environment.

Essential Duties & Responsibilities: 

• Budgeting and creating bid estimates
• Tracking and working within budget throughout project duration • Managing 
projects from award to completion, including shipment • Working with fellow 
producers to schedule jobs and allocate resources • Tracking job process from 
beginning to end, providing client support wherever needed • Production duties 
on HD, 2k and 4k Digital Intermediate, Restoration and 911 projects. SD and HD 
restorations and 911 projects • Building strong client relationships • 
Producing cost reports • Coordinating all necessary services on “digital film” 
projects • Training and mentoring junior members of the department • 
Coordinating and leading pre-production meetings • Distributing and updating 
production plans on all jobs; ensure internal producers follow department 
policies • Leading post mortem meetings; distributing reports that outline job 
challenges/opportunities • Occasional travel for presentations, trade shows 
and to client offices as needed

Qualifications:

• Bachelor’s Degree preferred
• Minimum 3 years’ relevant post production experience • Minimum 1 years’ 
experience producing DI or mastering projects • Experience with Digital Cinema 
and film and video services • Proven track record in producing DI, feature 
mastering and restoration jobs • Established, strong client relations • 
Thorough understanding of DI and restoration processes • Understanding of 
video, data and film formats and technologies • Analytical thinking skills and 
strong attention to detail • Exceptional organizational skills and process 
driven • Great communication and negotiating skills • Ability to manage and 
maintain relationships with colleagues and clients • Ability to remain 
composed and calm in high stress environment • Ability to work and provide 
results in a fast-paced, deadline driven environment • Experience with Windows 
and Mac OS platforms, including OSX and Windows • Xytech experience preferred

It's really difficult to get salary information for jobs involving digital restoration. Thank you for your time and have a great week.

V/R

Erik

From weagles at mac.com  Tue Oct  6 22:54:41 2009
From: weagles at mac.com (warren eagles)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:54:41 +1000
Subject: [Tig] re ASC CDL in the DPX header
Message-ID: <13B6D088-D755-4FAC-8906-DB320DFB9474@mac.com>

Sorry the first post missed a piece of vital info

This could only work in a scan once workflow for film.
Scan all the film 2k DPX
Grade with ASC node in dailies, send to offline
After grading place ASC into the DPX header
Conform the same scanned once images
Retrieve the ASC info from the DPX header and grade in hero box.

This post came around after 3 different people said to me during IBC  
that
they wanted to start a scan once workflow for movies, and felt for  
Film wanted an easier
way of keeping ASC info.
Scan once for movies? Lots more storage needed, but no rescanning  
costs, VFX guys have instant access
to material and lots less dust busting.

Warren



From rob at colorist.org  Wed Oct  7 03:26:47 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 23:26:47 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Low Power TV
Message-ID: <8A1FBB3E-C14D-4E96-9A72-E4B96418453D@colorist.org>

I saw a passing reference in Barry Shankman's bio on the TIG to a low  
power TV station out of Temecula or Hemet, California, KZSW.   Low  
power is an interesting area, to see how you can do a lot with a  
little.   I found that KZSW archives its newscasts, at least they did  
up until about a month ago, not sure what the current situation is.    
Anyway, there are many archived newscasts that are high art to watch,  
in their approach to chroma-key, news delivery, and fun.   Maybe Bob  
Kertesz could pop out there to Temecula for a day and give them a hand  
on the green screen, or maybe it's best left the way it is.  In these  
days of formula slickness, this kind of TV is refreshing:

http://www.kzswtv.com/index.php/video-on-demand/evening-news


--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org














From jdhouston at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 06:57:11 2009
From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:57:11 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
References: <26C27F41-668D-4F46-A03D-DD587F663B47@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3F065F11-2957-47E9-942F-E4364E44DD75@earthlink.net>


I don't think that CDL belongs in headers of files.
There are too many files to update if a change is made and that
process is slow.

Metadata shouldn't be replicated needlessly because it is then hard
to keep it all up to date.

The choice to have CDL available in an EDL, ALE, or XML file that
oversees a sequence of images is exactly the right place for those CDL
values to be.  It does require keeping track of your EDL and changes  
to a timeline,
but that is what editors do.  An XML file can be used to cover all the  
files in
a directory, or you can use reference links to an XML file as well.

It isn't a question of how many bytes are in the data to be put into a  
header,
it is the seek and open time for an application to go through all the  
file
headers to find the spots where it changes.   Load the file headers
for a movie,  say 140,000 frames, and see how long that takes.
It will be obvious why metadata that applies to large sequences of
images belongs elsewhere.


Jim Houston
co-author of ASC-CDL documents.



From bob at bluescreen.com  Wed Oct  7 20:08:34 2009
From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:08:34 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Low Power TV
In-Reply-To: <8A1FBB3E-C14D-4E96-9A72-E4B96418453D@colorist.org>
References: <8A1FBB3E-C14D-4E96-9A72-E4B96418453D@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <rfppc5lke13v7avn3f347bastqke92p5cu@4ax.com>

>Anyway, there are many archived newscasts that are high art to watch,  
>in their approach to chroma-key, news delivery, and fun.   Maybe Bob  
>Kertesz could pop out there to Temecula for a day and give them a hand  
>on the green screen, or maybe it's best left the way it is.  In these  
>days of formula slickness, this kind of TV is refreshing:

I wouldn't touch a thing. Really. Just a terrific newscast, certainly when
judged against the regurgitated overlit pap we see both locally and
nationally.

And speaking of that, I'd sure like to know which cameras one of the big L.A.
stations is using for its local HD newscasts. 

I wasn't aware there were any cameras with a setting labeled "Make the anchors
look like they died three days ago and have been filled with embalming fluid",
but apparently there is one.

--Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California
bob at bluescreen.com

The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing.  
For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com




From jeffcee at shaw.ca  Wed Oct  7 18:38:38 2009
From: jeffcee at shaw.ca (Jeff Christopherson)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 11:38:38 -0600
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
Message-ID: <3EA74561-9499-4815-9063-13A8C43E6A16@shaw.ca>

I had always thought it a good idea that every system processing a  
DPX image would somehow make a record of it in the header, appending  
it to any metadata concerning previous processing. Something  
analogous to the papers that travel in film cans.

The data need not be great - just a tag with the application name,  
version, some text about the manipulations done and the date. 1KB per  
process would be overkill, I think. The file spec reserves 1MB of  
header space for "User defined data" and some other header sections  
have space "reserved for future use". While a SMPTE revision would be  
great, this kind of record keeping is currently possible if there was  
cooperation in the industry. In fact, the file spec states that the  
user defined data can be used for "... processing logs, etc.".

There are many times when I wondered if the image I was looking at  
was "really" run through the dust buster, etc.. Many manufacturers  
make use of the "creator" metadata but the whole history is missing.

I wrote a program to strip the alpha channel off of DPX files. I  
appended the creator field with my program name while preserving the  
original creator. I was quite happy with that, until it went through  
a subsequent process.....


Jeff Christopherson.
Calgary, AB.

-------
+1 (403)708.3452   ( GSM Canada )
+32 (0)479.959.950 ( GSM Belgium )
Skype: jeffc_calgary






From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Wed Oct  7 21:11:51 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:11:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <3EA74561-9499-4815-9063-13A8C43E6A16@shaw.ca>
References: <3EA74561-9499-4815-9063-13A8C43E6A16@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910071508300.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Jeff Christopherson wrote:
>
> I had always thought it a good idea that every system processing a DPX image 
> would somehow make a record of it in the header, appending it to any metadata 
> concerning previous processing. Something analogous to the papers that travel 
> in film cans.
>
> The data need not be great - just a tag with the application name, version, 
> some text about the manipulations done and the date. 1KB per process would be 
> overkill, I think. The file spec reserves 1MB of header space for "User 
> defined data" and some other header sections have space "reserved for future 
> use". While a SMPTE revision would be great, this kind of record keeping is 
> currently possible if there was cooperation in the industry. In fact, the 
> file spec states that the user defined data can be used for "... processing 
> logs, etc.".

This seems like an interesting idea.  The required user space should 
be reserved in advance so that it is still possible to update the user 
space or pixels without re-writing the whole file.  Of course, a log 
file could be maintained alongside the DPX file.

There seems to be considerable usage of the user area already.  Some 
people are putting audio in there.  Others are adding a complex 
metadata chunk which is capable of storing arbitrary metadata.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From ramona at spectsoft.com  Wed Oct  7 22:34:34 2009
From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:34:34 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910071508300.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <3EA74561-9499-4815-9063-13A8C43E6A16@shaw.ca>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910071508300.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <200910071434.34346.ramona@spectsoft.com>

> There seems to be considerable usage of the user area already.  Some
> people are putting audio in there.  Others are adding a complex
> metadata chunk which is capable of storing arbitrary metadata.

Bob is correct, we are and do. We like many others are careful with what we 
put in here as doing a search on metadata in a DPX header could backfire if 
not careful. We choose to go several ways. Metadata stored in the header and 
a database, along with an XML file. This way we can use a variety of methods 
to perform a variety of tasks, in real-time of course. 

Passing it around in the DPX makes some sense, except when the program you put 
the DPX into strips it out, ugh.

Cheers,
Ramona

-- 
Ramona Howard
Oakdale, Ca 95361
209 847-7812 ext 104
www.spectsoft.com

Co-founder of SpectSoft, makers of the Rave product line.



From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Wed Oct  7 22:51:55 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 16:51:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <200910071434.34346.ramona@spectsoft.com>
References: <3EA74561-9499-4815-9063-13A8C43E6A16@shaw.ca>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910071508300.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<200910071434.34346.ramona@spectsoft.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910071645420.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Ramona Howard wrote:
>
> Passing it around in the DPX makes some sense, except when the program you put
> the DPX into strips it out, ugh.

Not GraphicsMagick's fault!

Another company which is reported to make use of the user area is 
S.two (http://www.stwo-corp.com/), which is reported to write PCM 
audio tracks into the DPX files.  This seems like a really good idea 
to me, at least for field recording.

I have no relationship with S.two except that they sent me several DPX 
files to test with.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From ramona at spectsoft.com  Wed Oct  7 23:59:27 2009
From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:59:27 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ASC CDL in the DPX header
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910071645420.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <3EA74561-9499-4815-9063-13A8C43E6A16@shaw.ca>
	<200910071434.34346.ramona@spectsoft.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910071645420.15399@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <200910071559.27188.ramona@spectsoft.com>


> Not GraphicsMagick's fault!

 No, just the thousand other applications :)
>
> Another company which is reported to make use of the user area is
> S.two (http://www.stwo-corp.com/), which is reported to write PCM
> audio tracks into the DPX files.  This seems like a really good idea
> to me, at least for field recording.

Yup, we do the same thing. But I bet you that we pack it in different ways so 
if we were to give them a DPX with audio, they wouldn't see the audio and 
visa versa. This is because there is NO standard for what and how data is 
packed in user space. It is a free for all, therefor one must be careful. It 
could get really messy.

Cheers,
Ramona


-- 
Ramona Howard
Oakdale, Ca 95361
209 847-7812 ext 104
www.spectsoft.com

Co-founder of SpectSoft, makers of the Rave product line.



From pedroconforti at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 07:57:30 2009
From: pedroconforti at gmail.com (Pedro Conforti)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 03:57:30 -0300
Subject: [Tig] TAFs for Fuji stock
Message-ID: <ec590c390910072357k32263300v7b0031c26851f092@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there, colorists around the globe!
It's been a long time since I've been checking out the TIG, let alone write
something... but anyway, here goes my question:

Does Fuji produce and make available telecine calibration / analisys film
samples (like Kodad's TAFs) for their emulsions? I've been working with Fuji
stock quite often lately, and would like to be able to start up from a
cleaner base memory / preset, whenever I do it, instead of starting from a
Kodak calibrated preset. But could not find any info on the internet,
neither the local distributor is aware of the existence of such tools, even
if he told me he would look for it. Anyway, does anyone know about this?
Does it exist?

Thanks,

Pedro


From rob at colorist.org  Wed Oct  7 18:44:45 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:44:45 -0300
Subject: [Tig] new on Classifieds (UK)
Message-ID: <9444885F-5DDC-4C30-84F7-0F5913E4C3A8@colorist.org>

New on the TIG wiki at
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds

Full details are here:  http://www.quantel.com/page.php?n=Vacancies
In short we're looking for a colorist to help us demo Pablo all around  
the world.  It's a full-time position based in Newbury UK.

If anyone has any questions they are welcome to contact me off list  
steve.owen <@> quantel.com.

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org














From jpo at prestodigital.ca  Thu Oct  8 17:27:36 2009
From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:27:36 -0600
Subject: [Tig] TAFs for Fuji stock
In-Reply-To: <ec590c390910072357k32263300v7b0031c26851f092@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec590c390910072357k32263300v7b0031c26851f092@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB28C422-15D2-41B3-9BAD-858345F64077@prestodigital.ca>

>
> Does Fuji produce and make available telecine calibration /  
> analisys film
> samples (like Kodad's TAFs) for their emulsions?

Not while I was operating telecine, and I doubt they would have  
started since.  They did have a very limited supply of live China  
Dolls that were obviously 2 feet of neg cut out of OCN rolls.


Joe Owens
Presto!Digital Colourgrade
302-9664 106 Avenue
Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4
+1 780 421-9980
jpo at prestodigital.ca





From rob at colorist.org  Thu Oct  8 17:47:46 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 13:47:46 -0300
Subject: [Tig] TAFs for Fuji stock
In-Reply-To: <AB28C422-15D2-41B3-9BAD-858345F64077@prestodigital.ca>
References: <ec590c390910072357k32263300v7b0031c26851f092@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB28C422-15D2-41B3-9BAD-858345F64077@prestodigital.ca>
Message-ID: <8DDD2EA1-0965-4C35-9616-242A887179D8@colorist.org>


On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Joe Owens wrote:

>> Does Fuji produce and make available telecine calibration /  
>> analisys film
>> samples (like Kodad's TAFs) for their emulsions?
>
> Not while I was operating telecine, and I doubt they would have  
> started since.  They did have a very limited supply of live China  
> Dolls that were obviously 2 feet of neg cut out of OCN rolls.


I thought I remembered that there were Fuji color setup films (not  
called TAF I'm sure for legal reasons) in the 1980s, but am not 100%  
sure of that.  A search of the TIG archives, which don't reach back  
quite that far into the 1980s, turns up a 1998 posting from Dave  
Corbitt:

http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1998/msg00505.html

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin
rob at colorist.org














From rob at colorist.org  Thu Oct  8 17:51:32 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 13:51:32 -0300
Subject: [Tig] position n/a (advisory)
References: <0BBEA82E-1D93-4B5D-B5BF-8EBB8D509C4B@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <8D10C0FC-98A7-40BC-B2CA-605C920B4BB6@colorist.org>

I received the following regarding a posting from October 7.  Please be
advised there is no position at this time, thanks.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Rob Lingelbach <rob at colorist.org>
> Date: October 8, 2009 1:42:45 PM GMT-03:00
> To: erik.figi at losangeles.af.mil
> Subject: Re: Forward of moderated message
>
>
> On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:37 PM, tig-bounces at colorist.org wrote:
>
>>
>> A friend posted my inquiry to the thread from yesterday and now =
>> I=E2=80=99m getting emails inquiry about the job, which there =
>> isn=E2=80=99t one =E2=80=93 this was merely research for a future =
>> position, of which film restoration was a small part. I  
>> don=E2=80=99t =
>> want people thinking there is an open position to apply to.
>>
>> How can I remove this?
>

--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin
rob at colorist.org













From steve at veralith.com  Thu Oct  8 17:57:32 2009
From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:57:32 -0500
Subject: [Tig] TAFs for Fuji stock
In-Reply-To: <8DDD2EA1-0965-4C35-9616-242A887179D8@colorist.org>
References: <ec590c390910072357k32263300v7b0031c26851f092@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB28C422-15D2-41B3-9BAD-858345F64077@prestodigital.ca>
	<8DDD2EA1-0965-4C35-9616-242A887179D8@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <5175639B-297F-4A1C-BE14-B004B1D706AE@veralith.com>

I have some well-placed contacts at Fujifilm. I placed an inquiry,  
but I'm pretty sure that there's nothing. I'll probably get a  
response back late tonight or tomorrow, due to the time difference.

Steve Hullfish
author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction"

On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote:
>
> On Oct 8, 2009, at 1:27 PM, Joe Owens wrote:
>
>>> Does Fuji produce and make available telecine calibration /  
>>> analisys film
>>> samples (like Kodad's TAFs) for their emulsions?
>>
>> Not while I was operating telecine, and I doubt they would have  
>> started since.  They did have a very limited supply of live China  
>> Dolls that were obviously 2 feet of neg cut out of OCN rolls.
>
> I thought I remembered that there were Fuji color setup films (not  
> called TAF I'm sure for legal reasons) in the 1980s, but am not  
> 100% sure of that.  A search of the TIG archives, which don't reach  
> back quite that far into the 1980s, turns up a 1998 posting from  
> Dave Corbitt:
>
> http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1998/msg00505.html


From cemoz101 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  8 23:11:03 2009
From: cemoz101 at yahoo.com (Cem Ozkilicci)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:11:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tig] TAFs for Fuji stock
In-Reply-To: <5175639B-297F-4A1C-BE14-B004B1D706AE@veralith.com>
References: <ec590c390910072357k32263300v7b0031c26851f092@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB28C422-15D2-41B3-9BAD-858345F64077@prestodigital.ca>
	<8DDD2EA1-0965-4C35-9616-242A887179D8@colorist.org>
	<5175639B-297F-4A1C-BE14-B004B1D706AE@veralith.com>
Message-ID: <334531.30331.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi All!

I clearly remember there being a setup film for Fuji. I recall having to set it up on an ITK Y-Front about 5-6 years ago ... I had simply written to Fuji and got the setup film relatively quickly. Dunno if it's discontinued now though ... Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Cem Ozkilicci
DI Colourist
Platige / Warsaw



On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote:

> I thought I remembered that there were Fuji color setup films (not called TAF I'm sure for legal reasons) in the 1980s, but am not 100% sure of that.  A search of the TIG archives, which don't reach back quite that far into the 1980s, turns up a 1998 posting from Dave Corbitt:
> 
> http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1998/msg00505.html
_______________________________________________
http://reels.colorist.org
http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3


      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/



From mwalker at encorehollywood.com  Thu Oct  8 22:28:18 2009
From: mwalker at encorehollywood.com (Michael Walker)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:28:18 -0700
Subject: [Tig] TAFs for Fuji stock
In-Reply-To: <ec590c390910072357k32263300v7b0031c26851f092@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6F3A782.32D0C%mwalker@encorehollywood.com>

Not only do they supply TAFs, but they will have the film processed through
the specific lab that your client will be using. For more information
contact:

George Gush
Technical Sales Manager - North American Motion Picture Group
FujiFilm U.S.A., Inc.
work    323/957-8824
toll free   888/424-3854 x8824
work fax    323/465-8279
email    ggush at fujifilm.com

-Mike Walker
Encore Hollywood




> Does Fuji produce and make available telecine calibration / analisys
>film
samples (like Kodad's TAFs) for their emulsions? 




From rob at colorist.org  Fri Oct  9 00:40:11 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 20:40:11 -0300
Subject: [Tig] new on TIG Classifieds
Message-ID: <E817DD3D-EDF7-46AF-8C6C-10AA79C1583A@colorist.org>

now appearing on the redesigned TIG wiki at
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds

Spirit Datacine for sale. Recently taken out of service in excellent  
condition.
·         DTV, SDTV, HDTV, Extended Ranges, 6SC (Secondaries)
·         Data Output w/ Phantom Transfer Engine HIPPI (SGI Octane  
with storage)
·         35mm and 16mm gates
For further information or to make an offer contact boraboravideo at gmail.com

Also:

Available

	• Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant

	• Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor,  
Consultant, Manager.

	• Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist

	• Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer

	• Adam Halasz colourist

	• Jon Mendenhall - Assistant Colourist, Chicago

	• 1-Year Old Aaton Keylink for Sale

	• Bosch 444 Quadra in perfect working condition, just taken out of  
service with

	• Loaded Davinci 2K Plus for Sale USA $100,000 USD

	• Celco Fury Film recorder

Wanted

	• Colorist-Demo Artist

	• Wanted, Engineer, New York City

	• Wanted, Dual Channel AJA frame grabber card.

	• Wanted, working Dolby CA10 camera systems.

	• Northlight One Scanner

	• Aaton Keycode head

	• Color Correction system for Quadra 444 needed

	• Good condition reversible 35mm Kinoton projector

	• 16mm gate for Arriscan needed

--
Rob Lingelbach    TIG admin, founder.
rob at colorist.org














From carl at stopp.se  Fri Oct  9 10:14:40 2009
From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:14:40 +0200
Subject: [Tig] Fuji TAF
Message-ID: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>

Fuji has got a "TAF".  The big difference from Kodak is that Kodak has one general TAF for OCN while Fuji was smart to make one TAF per filmstock.
Each time a new stock came out, a Peter from Fuju, based in Holland, used t drop buy with a new TAF for it.

BUT
Those TAF's s*ck if you ask me...
I've actually got two sets of TAF-rolls for the same filmstock. And they don't even match!
The Kodak TAF is (I gues) made in a special machine that more or less shoots out the image on a filmstock , so all Kodak TAFs matches. But what Fuji does 
is that they get a girl infront of a camera and have some colorsharts around her and lights it with smome lamps and shoots with a 35mm camera.
So when they come out with a new stock they take a new girl (or the same) and tryes to shoot it again, but it never matches from what I've seen.

It would have been great if Fuji TAF's were as good as the Kodak one. And it would be nice if Kodak did a TAF for each filmstock.
What we did is that we called Fuji and Kodak and asked to get one roll of each stock... went to a camerarental and placed out junior colorist in front of the camera and lite it "normaly" and shot with all stocks in a controlled envirirment. That may we get all stocks shot at the same time and skintone we actually know.

Not the mote scientific way... but it worked better(ish) then the TAF's.

/Carl


Carl Skaff
_____________________
Head of Telecine
Stockholm Postproduction
www.stopp.se
phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00
fax:     +46 8 32 77 22


From shukkra at yahoo.in  Fri Oct  9 10:15:59 2009
From: shukkra at yahoo.in (Mr Shukkra)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 02:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tig] DVNR 1000 4X4 chasis with GOB and FXI board details needed
Message-ID: <53958.88189.qm@web95312.mail.in2.yahoo.com>

 
 Hello everyone
 
 Recently i have one DVNR from one my friend in US.
It's having
 
1. FXI input board Serial number 271
 
2. GOB output board serrial number 304
 
Also it is having SGA YU, SGA V and ANR YU, ANR V.
 
Anyone can help me the DIL ( or DIP) switches ( appearing in the red color) settings and jumper settings in the both boards above said?
 
It is great help to me for fix the dvnr
 
Thanks & warm regards
 
Shukkra
 
 
 


      Now, send attachments up to 25MB with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/photos

From rob at colorist.org  Fri Oct  9 14:21:08 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 10:21:08 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Fuji TAF
In-Reply-To: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>
References: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>
Message-ID: <F78CC5AE-DF47-415E-A684-9817403F9132@colorist.org>


On Oct 9, 2009, at 6:14 AM, Carl Skaff wrote:
>
> I've actually got two sets of TAF-rolls for the same filmstock. And  
> they don't even match!

could it be, as was mentioned here yesterday, that each was developed  
in a different lab, according to
the target session?

> The Kodak TAF is (I gues) made in a special machine that more or  
> less shoots out the image on a filmstock , so all Kodak TAFs  
> matches. But what Fuji does
> is that they get a girl infront of a camera and have some  
> colorsharts around her and lights it with smome lamps and shoots  
> with a 35mm camera.
> So when they come out with a new stock they take a new girl (or the  
> same) and tryes to shoot it again, but it never matches from what  
> I've seen.

I think the lab differences could account for what you're seeing and  
it's a feature, not a bug :).
If we could get someone in LA to call George Gush and get his remarks,  
they would help a lot in
clarifying the situation.  He's been a friend to colorists for as long  
as I can remember and is now at
Fuji.


--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From dcorbitt77 at comcast.net  Fri Oct  9 14:18:50 2009
From: dcorbitt77 at comcast.net (dcorbitt77 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 13:18:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tig] Fuji TAF
In-Reply-To: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>
Message-ID: <1640807470.1583781255094330875.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

Re: TAF. Kodak's TAF is shot on an animation stand with sequential exposures through Red, Green, and Blue Wratten filters of grey chip patterns similar to RGB color bars and a grey scale with an elevated black level for the color chips. Fuji may have a "China Girl" test film but it is not a TAF film. Too bad since the TAF film tells a lot about colorimetry, lets you create an accurate color mask setting for the film stock as it is translated by the scanner or telecine, as well as grey scale tracking. A China Girl film can't do much of that except maybe set grey scale if it has accurate grey patterns on the target. 

Dave Corbitt 
HBO Studios 
New York, NY 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Skaff" <carl at stopp.se> 

==== 

Fuji has got a "TAF". The big difference from Kodak is that Kodak has one general TAF for OCN while Fuji was smart to make one TAF per filmstock. 
.....deletia........................... 

/Carl 


Carl Skaff 
_____________________ 
Head of Telecine 
Stockholm Postproduction 



From rahul.pixelloidrestoration at gmail.com  Fri Oct  9 14:27:06 2009
From: rahul.pixelloidrestoration at gmail.com (Rahul Kumar)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 06:27:06 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Film Restoration Scanning at 6K or 8K.
Message-ID: <f5a93b690910090627l1c4d88b4ve4316ce14c69caf1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,



We are restoring a title at 6K Resolution. Most of the negative is in good
shape.



Looking for scanning facilities who offer 8K to 6K or 6K scans.
Can anybody suggest film restoration scanning facility.



Rahul.

rahul at pixelloidrestoration.com

www.pixelloidrestoration.com

Offshore digital film restoration facility.


From carl at stopp.se  Fri Oct  9 17:06:12 2009
From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:06:12 +0200
Subject: [Tig] Fuji TAF
In-Reply-To: <CFD54B10-B7C8-4A3A-BB27-A1D879105501@gmail.com>
References: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>,
	<CFD54B10-B7C8-4A3A-BB27-A1D879105501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5266@exchange.stopp.se>

I'm pretty sure that Fuji called it a TAF, defenetly not LAD since that is for a lab and not for a Telecine, isn't it?

________________________________________
From: Christopher Noellert [cnoellert at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 17:51
To: Carl Skaff
Cc: tig at colorist.org
Subject: Re: [Tig] Fuji TAF

Carl,

There's a difference in purpose and execution between Lads and Tafs...

As far as I know, taf was a kodak only product.

Best,
Chris



From cnoellert at gmail.com  Fri Oct  9 16:51:57 2009
From: cnoellert at gmail.com (Christopher Noellert)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 08:51:57 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Fuji TAF
In-Reply-To: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>
References: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>
Message-ID: <CFD54B10-B7C8-4A3A-BB27-A1D879105501@gmail.com>

Carl,

There's a difference in purpose and execution between Lads and Tafs...

As far as I know, taf was a kodak only product.

Best,
Chris



From cnoellert at gmail.com  Fri Oct  9 17:39:28 2009
From: cnoellert at gmail.com (Christopher Noellert)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 09:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Fuji TAF
In-Reply-To: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5266@exchange.stopp.se>
References: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>,
	<CFD54B10-B7C8-4A3A-BB27-A1D879105501@gmail.com>
	<C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5266@exchange.stopp.se>
Message-ID: <1CDCB1B3-CFA7-42E4-A149-EEB182C95140@gmail.com>

Fair enough... They aren't really lads but test rolls.  Regardless  
they are not intended to be a Fuji equivalent of Kodak's taf.  Fuji  
has no equivalent product as far as I know.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Carl Skaff <carl at stopp.se> wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that Fuji called it a TAF, defenetly not LAD since  
> that is for a lab and not for a Telecine, isn't it?
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Christopher Noellert [cnoellert at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 17:51
> To: Carl Skaff
> Cc: tig at colorist.org
> Subject: Re: [Tig] Fuji TAF
>
> Carl,
>
> There's a difference in purpose and execution between Lads and Tafs...
>
> As far as I know, taf was a kodak only product.
>
> Best,
> Chris



From rob at colorist.org  Fri Oct  9 18:41:21 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:41:21 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Fuji TAF
In-Reply-To: <1CDCB1B3-CFA7-42E4-A149-EEB182C95140@gmail.com>
References: <C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5258@exchange.stopp.se>,
	<CFD54B10-B7C8-4A3A-BB27-A1D879105501@gmail.com>
	<C67BBBCA6F40ED408E4F8154EFDA4725B9EB9B5266@exchange.stopp.se>
	<1CDCB1B3-CFA7-42E4-A149-EEB182C95140@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1C1FE42-30F5-4C3C-9F39-EB608EBB8C0B@colorist.org>

The TIG archives search functions and properties are much improved as  
of today
and can be used at

http://tig.colorist.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi     enter for example 'Fuji  
TAF' (without quotes)
and you'll get, by default, a most-recent-date-first listing of  
postings that referred to
Fuji TAF.   Here, for example, is a posting by Jim Mann from June 30  
2002:

http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2002-June/001333.html

There are several more.  All postings back to 1994 are available in  
the archives search.
There is a link on the left navbar of the TIG wiki, in the archives  
section, that takes you
directly to the search.   I'm still working on making the results show  
more detail, they're
already highly modified from the original swish-e code, and will be  
reindexed for new
postings every couple of hours.

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin/founder
rob at colorist.org




From steve at hullfish.com  Sat Oct 10 04:22:05 2009
From: steve at hullfish.com (Steve Hullfish)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 22:22:05 -0500
Subject: [Tig] TED talk on Color and Doonesbury
Message-ID: <93388097-0979-4D35-973E-3084F661C9B2@hullfish.com>

OK, it's finally the weekend, excuse me for sending a little fun.

First a link to a talk about how the brain sees color from the  
excellent TED series of lectures. Excuse me if you already saw this.

http://www.ted.com/talks/beau_lotto_optical_illusions_show_how_we_see.html

Then, from last Sunday - at least in the US - the Doonesbury cartoon  
spent the first two panels talking about color correction!

The character - the gonzo journalist, whose name I can't  
remember...Uncle Duke? - who appears to be stoned, says "Wish I could  
color correct what I'm seeing... That's WAY too much vermillion!"




From rob at colorist.org  Sat Oct 10 06:08:44 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:08:44 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Colorimetry (was: Re:  6500k High CRI Lighting Options:)
In-Reply-To: <4AAF46B2.8040108@filmlight.ltd.uk>
References: <mailman.1.1252977814.13490.tig@colorist.org>
	<4AAF46B2.8040108@filmlight.ltd.uk>
Message-ID: <68100789-3980-4155-BDD1-1CE7A27D4892@colorist.org>

I saw that nobody had responded to this question of Richard Kirk's.

full text of his posting is at

http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2009-September/016614.html

a couple of excerpts:

On Sep 15, 2009, at 4:48 AM, Richard Kirk wrote:

> Has anyone found or seen a sulfur lamp?

...
>
> I have read about the sulphur lamp. This seems to have all the  
> properties of an incandescent lamp - this nice smooth spectrum (if  
> you don't get one of the ones made for greenhouses with boosted red),

....
> The only article I could find that gave a spectrum was...
> http://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/2176?task=view


I looked up the reference you gave and was intrigued, so also would
like to know more about this lamp.

At the "Nasa Tech Briefs" site referenced, I found a very brief paper  
on Colorimetry that goes some way toward explaining the subject,  
though it's biased toward Konica Minolta products, and is part of the  
"Webinar" series, which may be more suitable for readers at the  
grammar-school level, or those with a 3 page attention span.  It was  
also surprising to find flashing sales and marketing content on a  
website that uses NASA's imprimatur.

(On the Konica Minolta "Webinar" Colorimetry paper, the Konica Minolta  
Colorimeter is featured, along with information on how to purchase one.
A logical conclusion is  that we'll be seeing Honda and Budweiser ads  
on space mission hardware very soon.)

The Wikipedia entry on Colorimetry illuminated a couple of questions  
I'd had about the differences between Spectroradiometers,  
Spectrophotometers, and Spectrocolorimeters.  It even mentions 'color  
space transformations' which takes you to the entry on Color  
Translation, inside the 'Color management' section, which has some  
pertinent information on operating system support for color profiles.

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From enigma at turingstudio.com  Sat Oct 10 18:31:06 2009
From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:31:06 -0700
Subject: [Tig] TED talk on Color and Doonesbury
In-Reply-To: <93388097-0979-4D35-973E-3084F661C9B2@hullfish.com>
References: <93388097-0979-4D35-973E-3084F661C9B2@hullfish.com>
Message-ID: <EE169A43-05EC-4E49-A3A7-537D6A3F5F90@turingstudio.com>

> http://www.ted.com/talks/beau_lotto_optical_illusions_show_how_we_see.html


Great talk; then most TED talks are. Part of the ingest process for  
clients at colorflow will be the presentation of some of these  
'illusions' and a Farnsworth D-15 test just to see if they have any  
color vision problems.

I wish he had spoken a bit more about the way we adapt to different  
color temperatures of 'white' light. That, to me at least, is the most  
miraculous thing about human color vision.

_a



--
alexander black
turing & colorflow
888.603.6023 / main
510.666.0074 / direct
root at turingstudio.com





From ken at flight4.org  Tue Oct 13 04:01:23 2009
From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:01:23 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Scanners everywhere!
Message-ID: <468135E6C38C4B69B823B0D11CBBAB76@FLIGHT4>

Have a look if you have nothing better to do!

 

http://www.live-pr.com/en/new-report-just-published-r1048334927.htm

 

 

 


Ken Robinson



 


 

 



From rob at colorist.org  Tue Oct 13 04:27:02 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:27:02 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Scanners everywhere!
In-Reply-To: <468135E6C38C4B69B823B0D11CBBAB76@FLIGHT4>
References: <468135E6C38C4B69B823B0D11CBBAB76@FLIGHT4>
Message-ID: <75F28806-F7C6-4C4C-9F73-A727BD6D8266@colorist.org>


On Oct 13, 2009, at 12:01 AM, Ken Robinson wrote:

> http://www.live-pr.com/en/new-report-just-published-r1048334927.htm

Hi Ken,

can't look until you pay the $1,450 for the 10 page report.
But in the meantime you can call Shady (spelled Shadi) ... number  
given on the link.

Note publication date: March, 2008.   Seems like a whole lot has  
changed since then...
It notes there is "Quantitative Data for 2006,2007,2008."  With a  
publication date of
March 2008, wonder how much data is there for 2008.   So in theory the  
report could
be just short of 3 years out of date, and costs 1,450 US$ for a  
digital copy.

--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin, founder
rob at colorist.org




From jdhouston at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 13 05:29:23 2009
From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:29:23 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Scanners everywhere!
In-Reply-To: <75F28806-F7C6-4C4C-9F73-A727BD6D8266@colorist.org>
References: <468135E6C38C4B69B823B0D11CBBAB76@FLIGHT4>
	<75F28806-F7C6-4C4C-9F73-A727BD6D8266@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <130D9F77-4888-4EA3-95EF-1372FB84DD80@earthlink.net>


On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote:
>  So in theory the report could
> be just short of 3 years out of date, and costs 1,450 US$ for a  
> digital copy.


Of course, this was written before the start of a recession, and in a  
period when
sales will not 'go through the roof'.

I wouldn't spend money on a report like this.  The interesting thing
is that many of the places that need telecines already have them.
The volume of scanning that is needed is still much less than
available capacity, as a result, the price of scanning has been
dropping drastically (to facilities detriment).

Jim Houston



From rob at colorist.org  Tue Oct 13 15:16:31 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:16:31 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Scanners everywhere!
In-Reply-To: <130D9F77-4888-4EA3-95EF-1372FB84DD80@earthlink.net>
References: <468135E6C38C4B69B823B0D11CBBAB76@FLIGHT4>
	<75F28806-F7C6-4C4C-9F73-A727BD6D8266@colorist.org>
	<130D9F77-4888-4EA3-95EF-1372FB84DD80@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <650D9F2A-8ABD-47A9-B51F-99337347D37C@colorist.org>


On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:29 AM, Jim Houston wrote:

> Of course, this was written before the start of a recession, and in  
> a period when
> sales will not 'go through the roof'.
>
> I wouldn't spend money on a report like this.  The interesting thing
> is that many of the places that need telecines already have them.
> The volume of scanning that is needed is still much less than
> available capacity, as a result, the price of scanning has been
> dropping drastically (to facilities detriment).

Some observations:

The link to LIVE-PR at
http://www.live-pr.com/en/new-report-just-published-r1048334927.htm   
which as the link
states is "new report just published" and then is repeated in the  
article title in bold:
New Report Just Published  with a byline date of: October 12, 2009 -  
yesterday, with a
company called Reportlinker.com (which turns out to be directly  
associated or owned by
SCRI), references further information one link further down.   Drill  
down there and you'll
see what Jim is mentioning about sales "likely to go through the  
roof."    Below the $1,450
price for the report is the Publication Date: March 2008.    
Considering lead time for publication,
this is ancient news.

I've ordered a Free Sample Report.

Caveat Emptor.

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From rob at colorist.org  Wed Oct 14 18:42:43 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:42:43 -0300
Subject: [Tig] new on classifieds
Message-ID: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>

New on the TIG classifieds at
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds

	• Autodesk Flame v2009, Complete System For Sale See details at http://tinyurl.com/yk3cff6
This is a complete system in working order, Flame v2009, hardware and  
software. It is running on an HP XW9400 workstation with Linux RedHat.  
8 GB of RAM, 1.5TB storage, computer monitor, Sony picture monitor,  
Tannoy audio monitoring, and all cabling/converters. Additional  
pictures and information available upon request. Note that system is  
in working order, but sold As Is. Physical inspection (in person or  
virtual) can be arranged. System is in Amsterdam. Call Mark at  
+1.303.888.4553 for details, or email mark at gmail dot com. [20091014p]

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From lortsher at pixar.com  Wed Oct 14 21:11:31 2009
From: lortsher at pixar.com (David Lortsher)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ND for Grading Suite Projector
In-Reply-To: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>
References: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>

My engineers have gifted me with a new Christie CP-2000 M for my  
grading suite
and warn me that even after fitting it with an aperture plate, it  
will require ND filters
to achieve proper light levels. Could anyone direct me to a source  
for quality ND
media suitable for this application.
Thanks much,
David Lortsher
Pixar Colorist



From rob at colorist.org  Wed Oct 14 23:06:35 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:06:35 -0300
Subject: [Tig] ND for Grading Suite Projector
In-Reply-To: <E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
References: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>
	<E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <024B3FC6-D149-40F8-A46B-2AB04A53CE1B@colorist.org>


On 2009-10-14 at 13:11, David Lortsher (lortsher at pixar.com) wrote:

 > Could anyone direct me to a source
 > for quality ND
 > media suitable for this application.

http://www.rosco.com/

don't forget to check out their Dance floors as well.

(I have no connection with rosco)

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From ted at tedlangdell.com  Wed Oct 14 23:44:43 2009
From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:44:43 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ND for Grading Suite Projector
In-Reply-To: <E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
References: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>
	<E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <E6F430CC-3502-42E0-8AA7-2C5AC26DA816@tedlangdell.com>


On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:11 PM, David Lortsher wrote:
> My engineers have gifted me with a new Christie CP-2000 M for my  
> grading suite
> and warn me that even after fitting it with an aperture plate, it  
> will require ND filters
> to achieve proper light levels. Could anyone direct me to a source  
> for quality ND
> media suitable for this application.
> Thanks much,
> David Lortsher
> Pixar Colorist
>

Try Tiffen.

http://www.tiffen.com

They have a varety of sizes, including 4x5, 5x5 and so forth up to  
6.6 x 6.6 inches, and can likely make a custom filter set if you need  
one.

Hope this helps.  (No connection to Tiffen other than as a user.)

Ted Langdell
flashscan8.us
209 East 12th Street
Marysville, CA 95901
Main: 	(530) 741-1212
Cell: 	(530) 301-2931

ted at flashscan8.us

See you at AMIA 2009 in St. Louis
flashscan8.us







From jdhouston at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 15 12:42:19 2009
From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:42:19 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ND for Grading Suite Projector
In-Reply-To: <E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
References: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>
	<E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <6D974539-2854-46A2-96B9-BBF91AF042BC@earthlink.net>


This is a common problem in small rooms even with as low as a 1600w  
lamp.

However, best thing to do is not to use ND but adjust the 'gain'
setting in the projector setup.

ND filters always cause some flare with a loss in contrast and  
sharpness.

Adjusting the gain from 1.0 to say 0.8 will slightly change the gamma  
which you can fix
in a lookup table, but you can nail your target brightness.  (You are  
also giving up
about half a bit in the electronics (so 10bits-->9.5 which isn't  
usually visible).

[If you really are pushed into NDs, use a glass 6x6" filter (pricey)  
tilted at an angle
of 45 degrees from the light path and at least 8" from the lens  
surface.  The first
reflection from the ND filter should not bounce back into the lens]

Jim Houston
VP Technology and Engineering
Sony Pictures Entertainment


On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:11 PM, David Lortsher wrote:

> My engineers have gifted me with a new Christie CP-2000 M for my  
> grading suite
> and warn me that even after fitting it with an aperture plate, it  




From peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com  Thu Oct 15 12:03:12 2009
From: peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com (peter stansfield)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:03:12 +0100
Subject: [Tig] CONFERENCE ON VISUAL MEDIA PRODUCTION (CVMP) FINAL CALL FOR
	SHORT	PAPERS
Message-ID: <BA08863F-11B4-48BF-893A-689AB5D317C2@wavecrest-systems.com>

CVMP, the European Conference on Visual Media Production (www.cvmp-conference.org 
), taking place on 12th & 13th November 2009 at the BFI Southbank,  
London, is putting out the final call for short papers presenting the  
latest research in media production.

For Further details see www.cvmp-conference.org



Regards



Peter Stansfield



From jdhouston at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 15 12:45:10 2009
From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:45:10 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ND for Grading Suite Projector
In-Reply-To: <6D974539-2854-46A2-96B9-BBF91AF042BC@earthlink.net>
References: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>
	<E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
	<6D974539-2854-46A2-96B9-BBF91AF042BC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F54E29B7-2BC9-4394-A436-2C1196120255@earthlink.net>


This is a common problem in small rooms even with as low as a 1600w  
lamp.

However, best thing to do is not to use ND but adjust the 'gain'
setting in the projector setup.

ND filters always cause some flare with a loss in contrast and  
sharpness.

Adjusting the gain from 1.0 to say 0.8 will slightly change the gamma  
which you can fix
in a lookup table, but you can nail your target brightness.  (You are  
also giving up
about half a bit in the electronics (so 10bits-->9.5 which isn't  
usually visible).

[If you really are pushed into NDs, use a glass 6x6" filter (pricey)  
tilted at an angle
of 45 degrees from the light path and at least 8" from the lens  
surface.  The first
reflection from the ND filter should not bounce back into the lens]

Jim Houston
VP Technology and Engineering
Sony Pictures Entertainment




From ted at tedlangdell.com  Thu Oct 15 15:29:54 2009
From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:29:54 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Association of Moving Image Archivists, St. Louis,
	MO. Nov. 3-7
Message-ID: <77034E24-6780-4664-A6C1-50FF61739D12@tedlangdell.com>

The Association of Moving Image Archivists holds its annual  
conference in St. Louis, MO. Nov. 3-7.

http://amiaconference.com.

On Tuesday night Nov. 3, The Quad Videotape Group will be gathering  
for a 6:30 p.m. dinner, open to anyone interested in or experienced  
with Quad Videotape, Telecine and Editing from back in the day.

Details (location, etc.) will be posted soon at http:// 
www.quadvideotapegroup.com

Bring your Smith Splicer (microscope optional), Edivue, Razor Blades,  
EDL floppy disk, TAF, core or take up reel.

Ted Langdell
Secretary for the  QuadVideotapeGroup.com:
flashscan8.us
Main: 	(530) 741-1212
Cell: 	(530) 301-2931
ted at flashscan8.us
See you at AMIA 2009 in St. Louis



From lortsher at pixar.com  Thu Oct 15 16:35:02 2009
From: lortsher at pixar.com (lortsher at pixar.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:35:02 -0700
Subject: [Tig] ND for Grading Suite Projector
In-Reply-To: <6D974539-2854-46A2-96B9-BBF91AF042BC@earthlink.net>
References: <BFAA2E93-997E-44A0-800B-5E33968B1A27@colorist.org>
	<E5A12C5D-F54B-45DD-B3B6-4DA131710F69@pixar.com>
	<6D974539-2854-46A2-96B9-BBF91AF042BC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fc7950913afa.4ad6deb6@pixar.com>

Thanks Jim,
I'm going to forward your letter to my engineers. I have been yacking, to no avail, about the evils of the ND "solution" so perhaps this might help avoid going down that path.
Much appreciated,
David

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Houston <jdhouston at earthlink.net>
Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:42 am
Subject: Re: [Tig] ND for Grading Suite Projector

> 
> This is a common problem in small rooms even with as low as a 1600w 
> 
> lamp.
> 
> However, best thing to do is not to use ND but adjust the 'gain'
> setting in the projector setup.


From rob at colorist.org  Sat Oct 17 19:36:51 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:36:51 -0300
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
Message-ID: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>

When a manufacturer claims lossless video compression, do we  
understand it as being theoretical, and rarely used, as a practical  
matter?

I ask because I got into this discussion with a friend who claimed  
that he was seeing lossless compression in satellite program  
transmissions due to JPEG2000 being used.   According to what I  
understand about JPEG2000, it depends how it is scaled, but there are  
also some complex questions about the wavelet transform, and  
subsequent quantization, which is lossy (according to my understanding  
which may not be complete).  I would like to try to clarify this with  
those in the know.

On the larger question of video compression:

Quoting the article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_compression

"Some forms of data compression are lossless. This means that when the  
data is decompressed, the result is a bit-for-bit perfect match with  
the original. While lossless compression of video is possible, it is  
rarely used, as lossy compression results in far higher compression  
ratios at an acceptable level of quality."

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From rob at colorist.org  Sat Oct 17 20:47:34 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:47:34 -0300
Subject: [Tig] Colorist Reels, Directory, featured clips.
Message-ID: <57F98871-D7D1-435A-B771-7879CC52A073@colorist.org>

An beautiful spot from Micah Kirz for Unicef is featured on the main TIG wiki  
page in rotation with a few other features: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 
    also featured are
Bob Festa (Alfa), Beau Leon (Range Rover), Rob Lingelbach (Vadim  
Perelman/Roshen), Michael Thibodeau (Hyundai).

**Other clips or spots accepted from any colorists; this is a chance  
to put your work up front where 5000 people per day hit that page.**

The Colorist Directory is taking shape, with 15 major colorists  
represented.  The form is easy to use, instructions and the directory  
are at
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist   ...photos,  
streaming reels, widgets, whatever you like can be included on this  
Directory entry.   Returns top results on Google, due to the TIG being  
on the net for 18 years (16 on the web because the web only started in  
1994).   Don't hesitate to ask me for any help.

Micah is also added to the http://reels.colorist.org  page,  
redirecting for now to his own fully-featured reel-streaming site,  
where the work is separated according to taste.  This represents yet a  
third way to do a presentation of work:

1) reel of compilation of material, end to end (commercials)
2) reel of montage (commercials or features)
3) page featuring selection of material according to whim


--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From rob at colorist.org  Sat Oct 17 21:06:54 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:06:54 -0300
Subject: [Tig] news feature on the TIG
Message-ID: <34F37397-77B1-47C4-BA78-A4DE296A90F8@colorist.org>

There is a feature on the TIG main page, getting 5000 hits per day, at
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3  that has, in green text highlighted  
above the
colorist clip flash presentation, a blurb that links to your own  
release or
one hosted at colorist.org .   there are currently 5 in rotation:

AJA
Aaton
Arri
MWA Nova
New Hat (for FilmLight)

please feel free to send me current PR items, or updates of the ones  
now showing (reload the page to see the randomly-loading blurbs).

As well, supporting manufacturers have logos in rotation on the same  
page.

This is a way of supporting the TIG (a donation is requested) and a  
way the TIG can return the favor.

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Sat Oct 17 21:54:32 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:54:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, Rob Lingelbach wrote:
>
> When a manufacturer claims lossless video compression, do we understand it as 
> being theoretical, and rarely used, as a practical matter?
>
> I ask because I got into this discussion with a friend who claimed that he 
> was seeing lossless compression in satellite program transmissions due to 
> JPEG2000 being used.   According to what I understand about JPEG2000, it 
> depends how it is scaled, but there are also some complex questions about the 
> wavelet transform, and subsequent quantization, which is lossy (according to 
> my understanding which may not be complete).  I would like to try to clarify 
> this with those in the know.

JPEG2000 does support a lossless mode.  I am not sure how JPEG2000 
works, but it is worth noting that it is possible to accomplish 
lossless compression by using a lossy compressor in conjunction with 
the difference data necessary to achieve lossless results.  This works 
since the difference (error) is much smaller than the original data.

You can play with JPEG2000 via GraphicsMagick.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct 18 06:24:14 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 03:24:14 -0200
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>


On Oct 17, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, Rob Lingelbach wrote:
>>
>> When a manufacturer claims lossless video compression, do we  
>> understand it as being theoretical, and rarely used, as a practical  
>> matter?
>
> JPEG2000 does support a lossless mode.  I am not sure how JPEG2000  
> works, but it is worth noting that it is possible to accomplish  
> lossless compression by using a lossy compressor in conjunction with  
> the difference data necessary to achieve lossless results.

In the articles I've read, the lossless compression is mentioned as  
being rarely used because lossy compression represents such a huge  
savings in bandwidth (see ref.).  I should have mentioned that for our  
purposes I was referring to Motion JPEG 2000 (MJ2 or MJP2) defined in  
ISO/IEC 15444-3 which uses the JPEG 2000 codec and also defines a file  
format according to RFC 3745.

So it's this sentence that raises the question: if MJ2/MJP2 is the  
archiving standard to be selected by the Library of Congress  
(=archiving) then what impact does this statement have, when applied  
to that archiving:
"While lossless compression of video is possible, it is rarely used,  
as lossy compression results in far higher compression ratios at an  
acceptable level of quality." (see ref.)

In other words, since lossless will "rarely [be] used," will the  
originals - the very tapes and films that the LoC and other archive  
libraries (UCLA, Cinemateca in Brasil) be degraded, and isn't it best  
never to consider any kind of loss, because "an acceptable level of  
quality" provided by "far higher compression ratios" is very much in  
the eye of the beholder, and who knows what artifacts will be  
introduced by further compression 30 years from now of the already- 
compressed archives of tapes and films that have been degraded with  
lossy compression?

(ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_compression)

--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin founder
rob at colorist.org




From avgeeks at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 15:21:58 2009
From: avgeeks at gmail.com (Skip Elsheimer)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:21:58 -0400
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <ba46594b0910180721n57320e6eyd4a92d7ffa819499@mail.gmail.com>

I believe the Library of Congress is using SAMMA Systems' flavor of JPEG2000
compression where a bunch of JPEG 2000 images and audio streams are saved in
a MXF wrapper. The LOC is saving with the lossless compression option for
preservation purposes - they are also making access derivative files -
MPEG2, MPEG4, etc.- since most people can't playback a JPEG2000 compressed
file in realtime.
Ted Langdell has been working with SAMMA and might be able to clarify this.

There is so much confusion involving JPEG2000 compression vs MJPEG2000 or
MJ2K or whatever that many archives are just saving their video content as
uncompressed.

Skip Elsheimer
A/V Geeks LLC



From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Sun Oct 18 15:45:13 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:45:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910180922000.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009, Rob Lingelbach wrote:
>
> In the articles I've read, the lossless compression is mentioned as being 
> rarely used because lossy compression represents such a huge savings in 
> bandwidth (see ref.).  I should have mentioned that for our purposes I was

The article you are referring to is related to "video" compression. 
It is generally accepted that video is intended for distribution and 
is a subset of what we might call "motion picture".  Note that what is 
distributed is usually a lesser grade than the master elements.

In the context of JPEG2000, whether lossless compression is frequently 
used is industry dependent.  For example, the DICOM image format (used 
to store medical images like x-rays) normally uses lossless 
compression (or no compression).

> In other words, since lossless will "rarely [be] used," will the originals - 
> the very tapes and films that the LoC and other archive libraries (UCLA, 
> Cinemateca in Brasil) be degraded, and isn't it best never to consider any 
> kind of loss, because "an acceptable level of quality" provided by "far 
> higher compression ratios" is very much in the eye of the beholder, and who 
> knows what artifacts will be introduced by further compression 30 years from 
> now of the already-compressed archives of tapes and films that have been 
> degraded with lossy compression?

If your objective is to avoid "any kind of loss" then be prepared to 
spend a lifetime on just one project (and then fail).

As for file sizes, I just did an experiment starting with a 1920x1080 
RGB 10-bit DPX frame.  I compressed it with lossy JPEG2000 using 
default GraphicsMagick settings, and also lossless.  These are the 
file sizes I ended up with:

Original:  8,302,592
Lossless:  3,829,795
Default:     486,783

So one can see that JPEG 2000 lossless still leads to 2X compression 
ratio, but the image can be compressed quite a lot (and still look 
pretty good).

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From ken at flight4.org  Sun Oct 18 15:32:07 2009
From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:32:07 -0200
Subject: [Tig] Alternative monitoring
In-Reply-To: <8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org><alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <04320270C75E4CEF9CC8B08DB5476B5A@FLIGHT4>

I suppose variable resolution.... And dependent on size of your suite?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jgkm2pdWgY&feature=player_embedded#



Ken Robinson




From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct 18 17:37:16 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:37:16 -0200
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910180922000.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910180922000.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <E26F48A0-46A5-4B24-AB4D-CFA4BCF00700@colorist.org>


On Oct 18, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:

> The article you are referring to is related to "video" compression.  
> It is generally accepted that video is intended for distribution and  
> is a subset of what we might call "motion picture".  Note that what  
> is distributed is usually a lesser grade than the master elements.

count me as one who didn't know that Bob. So "video" is synonymous  
with "consumer video"  and in referring to production or post- 
production at a certain budget level, we don't use "video" but we use  
"motion picture."   If you have any references on this distinction  
please pass them along, I'd like to include them on the TIG.

> If your objective is to avoid "any kind of loss" then be prepared to  
> spend a lifetime on just one project (and then fail).

Wouldn't a file-to-file copy of bits, not using compression, be  
lossless, assuming no bits are lost?

>
> Original:  8,302,592
> Lossless:  3,829,795
> Default:     486,783
>
> So one can see that JPEG 2000 lossless still leads to 2X compression  
> ratio, but the image can be compressed quite a lot (and still look  
> pretty good).

that's impressive.  But by that last parenthetical phrase are you  
perhaps suggesting that something was lost?  :)


--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct 18 17:46:09 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:46:09 -0200
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <ba46594b0910180721n57320e6eyd4a92d7ffa819499@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<ba46594b0910180721n57320e6eyd4a92d7ffa819499@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EC239E8E-FCC6-4823-9517-B5888786A8D7@colorist.org>


On Oct 18, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Skip Elsheimer wrote:

> I believe the Library of Congress is using SAMMA Systems' flavor of  
> JPEG2000 compression where a bunch of JPEG 2000 images and audio  
> streams are saved in a MXF wrapper. The LOC is saving with the  
> lossless compression option

The Wikipedia article on JPEG2000 must be out of date then:

"Motion JPEG 2000 (often referenced as MJ2 or MJP2) is the leading  
digital cinema standard currently supported by Digital Cinema  
Initiatives (a consortium of most major studios and vendors) for the  
storage, distribution and exhibition of motion pictures. It also is  
under consideration as a digital archival format by the Library of  
Congress."

I did some research recently on the SAMMA system and there were some  
controls in the SOLO that I found interesting- Automatic Gain,  
Automatic Color.  Hopefully the compressionist will know how  to use  
these controls, or how not to use them :).

(I am not compensated by Front Porch Digital who make SAMMA)
--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin  colorist
rob at colorist.org



From avgeeks at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 17:56:13 2009
From: avgeeks at gmail.com (Skip Elsheimer)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:56:13 -0400
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <E26F48A0-46A5-4B24-AB4D-CFA4BCF00700@colorist.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910180922000.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<E26F48A0-46A5-4B24-AB4D-CFA4BCF00700@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <ba46594b0910180956w6d3a5871ka5f9f3325887db2b@mail.gmail.com>

I believe that LOC is only using the SAMMA for video-originating material
(umatic, beta sp, one inch, etc.). I don't know what they are using for film
- if anything at all.

Also, this assumption is based on my visiting the new LOC A/V center in
Culpeper, VA and seeing a SAMMA robot setup for digitizing. Things may have
changed since my visit about 8 months ago..

(Not associated with SAMMA or getting any money from them either.)

Skip Elsheimer
A/V Geeks LLC




From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Sun Oct 18 17:58:51 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:58:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <E26F48A0-46A5-4B24-AB4D-CFA4BCF00700@colorist.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910180922000.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<E26F48A0-46A5-4B24-AB4D-CFA4BCF00700@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910181148320.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009, Rob Lingelbach wrote:
> count me as one who didn't know that Bob. So "video" is synonymous with 
> "consumer video"  and in referring to production or post-production at a 
> certain budget level, we don't use "video" but we use "motion picture."   If 
> you have any references on this distinction please pass them along, I'd like 
> to include them on the TIG.

Consider the reference to now be created. :-)

Almost anyone contributing to Wikipedia who uses the term "video" is 
certainly describing lower-bandwidth stuff such as comes out of a 
video camera, VCR, DVD, broadcast TV, etc.  The term "video" is most 
often used for YCbCr encoded (a form of compression), and (usually) 
subsampled (more compression) stuff.  I am simply trying to interpret 
the reason for the claim for you.

A Wikipedia claim that "video is almost always compressed" is surely 
wrong if Cineon/DPX files from datacine/scanner are considered to be 
"video" since such content is in common use.  However, if they are 
"video" then the WikiPedia claim is incorrect or incomplete.

> Wouldn't a file-to-file copy of bits, not using compression, be lossless, 
> assuming no bits are lost?

Nope.  As soon as you introduce the notion of a 'bit', you have 
introduced the notion of quantization, which is compression using 
'bits'. Only analog reality is uncompressed.

>> So one can see that JPEG 2000 lossless still leads to 2X compression ratio, 
>> but the image can be compressed quite a lot (and still look pretty good).
>
> that's impressive.  But by that last parenthetical phrase are you perhaps 
> suggesting that something was lost?  :)

Yes, of course.  I see that even for the "lossless" case there is a 
tiny measurable difference, which could indicate a bug in 
GraphicsMagick or the Jasper (JPEG2000) library.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct 18 18:05:37 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:05:37 -0200
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910181148320.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910180922000.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<E26F48A0-46A5-4B24-AB4D-CFA4BCF00700@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910181148320.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <C2BC18C5-F5C8-49D8-AECA-194162AE6CD6@colorist.org>


On Oct 18, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't a file-to-file copy of bits, not using compression, be  
>> lossless, assuming no bits are lost?
>
> Nope.  As soon as you introduce the notion of a 'bit', you have  
> introduced the notion of quantization, which is compression using  
> 'bits'. Only analog reality is uncompressed.

I think it's semantics:  I meant that given a file of bits,  
(disregarding what it was created from - reality or unreality or  
surreality), and then creating a 1 to 1 copy of it, there isn't any  
compression involved, if you get it right.   I think you're talking  
about (and I wasn't clear perhaps) that a quantization of analog  
reality is not perfect, though I don't know if the term 'compression'  
covers completely what is lost in the digital representation.   Anyway,

>
>>> So one can see that JPEG 2000 lossless still leads to 2X  
>>> compression ratio, but the image can be compressed quite a lot  
>>> (and still look pretty good).
>>
>> that's impressive.  But by that last parenthetical phrase are you  
>> perhaps suggesting that something was lost?  :)
>
> Yes, of course.  I see that even for the "lossless" case there is a  
> tiny measurable difference, which could indicate a bug in  
> GraphicsMagick or the Jasper (JPEG2000) library.

so lossless may not be lossless.  I think the term is used too loosely  
(am very tempted to say the term is used lossly).

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From rob at colorist.org  Sun Oct 18 18:10:36 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:10:36 -0200
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless?  (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910181148320.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910180922000.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<E26F48A0-46A5-4B24-AB4D-CFA4BCF00700@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910181148320.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
Message-ID: <4B26C0CA-B693-4C9F-8A53-32820DD212C7@colorist.org>


On Oct 18, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:

> A Wikipedia claim that "video is almost always compressed" is surely  
> wrong if Cineon/DPX files from datacine/scanner are considered to be  
> "video" since such content is in common use.  However, if they are  
> "video" then the WikiPedia claim is incorrect or incomplete.

regarding the latter, it wouldn't be the first time, but based on your  
authoritative reference to video having become a term that is  
synonymous with "consumer video" then I wouldn't want to correct the  
WP entry without going through some kind of vetting process.

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk  Mon Oct 19 08:46:18 2009
From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:46:18 +0100
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000) (Rob Lingelbach)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.198.1255884419.19731.tig@colorist.org>
References: <mailman.198.1255884419.19731.tig@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <4ADC194A.60608@filmlight.ltd.uk>

You can usually get about 2x compression with lossless processes. 
Two-and-a bit, maybe. Beyond that, you are limited by the noise level on 
your signal. Suppose you have an 8-bit video signal, and something like 
32:1 signal to noise (+/-4: not an unreasonable figure). This will mean 
the bottom three bits will essentially be unpredictable noise. If you 
are transmitting a flat screen of grey so there is no picture 
information whatever, you would expect to get only 8/3x compression = 
2.67. If you have more bits then you have to have a greater signal to 
noise ratio to get the same compression ratio. This limit applies to any 
lossless compression systems. The only exceptions are artificial, 
noiseless images such as text or rendered images.

A bit more than 2x compression may not sound much, but it is more than 
YCrCb encoding, and it does a lot less damage.

Cheers.
Richard Kirk

-- 
FilmLight Ltd.  	Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 or 0409 224 (direct)
Artists House,		Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401
14-15 Manette Street    
London W1D 4AP





From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us  Mon Oct 19 17:34:23 2009
From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:34:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000) (Rob Lingelbach)
In-Reply-To: <4ADC194A.60608@filmlight.ltd.uk>
References: <mailman.198.1255884419.19731.tig@colorist.org>
	<4ADC194A.60608@filmlight.ltd.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.0910191118090.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009, Richard Kirk wrote:
>
> A bit more than 2x compression may not sound much, but it is more than YCrCb 
> encoding, and it does a lot less damage.

People have been using YCbCr video for so long now that they have 
forgotten that it is a form of compression, even at "4:4:4".  The 
whole TV video chain uses various forms of crude compression at each 
step of the way before any "compressor" is applied.

   pixelization   = compression
   quantization   = compression
   YCbCr          = compression
   subsampling    = compression
   gamma encoding = compression

The main problem with compressors like JPEG2000 is that they are very 
slow to do in software and there are patent issues.

I continue to hope that the original IJG JPEG library will be updated 
to support 8/12/16 bits in the same build so that old-fashioned JPEG 
can be used for faster compression with more precision.  There have 
been recent quality improvements in this library but the maintainer is 
currently working on advanced DCT technology rather than 
multiple-depth enhancements.

Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,    http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/



From ted at tedlangdell.com  Mon Oct 19 16:32:08 2009
From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:32:08 -0700
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <ba46594b0910180721n57320e6eyd4a92d7ffa819499@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<ba46594b0910180721n57320e6eyd4a92d7ffa819499@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F3DF4B4E-6843-4CA5-B6B4-F4F62F4586F7@tedlangdell.com>

On Oct 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Skip Elsheimer wrote:
<snip>

> Ted Langdell has been working with SAMMA and might be able to  
> clarify this.
>
> There is so much confusion involving JPEG2000 compression vs  
> MJPEG2000 or
> MJ2K or whatever that many archives are just saving their video  
> content as
> uncompressed.
>
> Skip Elsheimer
> A/V Geeks LLC
>


The very short and untechnical condensation of what has been  
explained by folks with SAMMA/Front Porch Digital is that one can use  
the lossless implementation of JPEG2000 wrapped in MXF to create  
smaller than uncompressed files, which, when restored, provide the  
user with what was originally encoded.

Let me defer to heads much more wrapped around the details of  
JPEG2000, lossless and lossy encoding.

SAMMA founder/Media Matters head honcho Jim Lindner would be the guy  
to ask about how the SAMMA system implements lossless JPEG2000.

Josef Marc of SAMMA (now part of Front Porch Digital) is also very  
well versed in this and other codecs, and has a long background in  
system integration with companies such as Sony.

Jim has explained the details of the SAMMA implementation and reasons  
for its selection many times on the AMIA (Association of Moving Image  
Archivists) list:
http://lsv.uky.edu/archives/amia-l.html

Josef has also offered detailed explanations of how it works, and  
doing so for other codecs.

One can search for discussions here:
http://lsv.uky.edu/scripts/wa.exe?S1=amia-l

Google should also bring up lists of those discussions.

Front Porch Digital (which purchased the SAMMA Systems last October)  
maintains a page with a lot of white papers that would also address  
the issues of lossless and lossy compression, JPEG 2000 and other  
aspects of video preservation and could provide the information  
people have been looking for in this thread.

http://www.fpdigital.com/Resource/Whitepapers.aspx

The papers includes a draft version of a Library of Congress paper  
"Digital Formats for Library of Congress Collections: Factors To  
Consider When Choosing Digital Formats [PDF] by Caroline R. Arms and  
Carl Fleischhauer"

Disclosure: My post here is not speaking on behalf of Front Porch  
Digital.


Hope this is helpful.

Ted

Ted Langdell
flashscan8.us
Main: 	(530) 741-1212
Cell: 	(530) 301-2931

ted at flashscan8.us

See you at AMIA 2009 in St. Louis
http://www.flashscan8.us








From BTopazio at company3.com  Tue Oct 20 13:09:52 2009
From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:09:52 -0400
Subject: [Tig] Alternative monitoring
In-Reply-To: <04320270C75E4CEF9CC8B08DB5476B5A@FLIGHT4>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org><alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org><8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<04320270C75E4CEF9CC8B08DB5476B5A@FLIGHT4>
Message-ID: <BC278E029D3A3C41BEDDB3B35F164EE5F1DF6B@harbor250ex.corp.ad>

Good thing that was subtitled or I'd be lost!



-----Original Message-----
From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:32 AM
To: tig at colorist.org
Subject: [Tig] Alternative monitoring

Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.
IVC http://www.ivchd.com supports the TIG
**Participate in the Colorist Directory at
http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist
====

I suppose variable resolution.... And dependent on size of your suite?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jgkm2pdWgY&feature=player_embedded#



Ken Robinson


_______________________________________________
http://reels.colorist.org
http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3

From rob at cinelab.com  Wed Oct 21 17:36:27 2009
From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:36:27 -0400
Subject: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1
Message-ID: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com>

Quick fact check am I correct that a 888 reniassance ( non DUI ) will  
drive a ursa 1 ?

Rob

Robert Houllahan Film
www.Cinelab.com
Sent by IpodPhone




From rob at colorist.org  Wed Oct 21 18:49:21 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:49:21 -0200
Subject: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1
In-Reply-To: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com>
References: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com>
Message-ID: <1B2AF6CA-8BDD-445E-9076-8928921220D5@colorist.org>


On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote:

> Quick fact check am I correct that a 888 reniassance ( non DUI )  
> will drive a ursa 1 ?


1990, Planet Blue, Los Angeles:  888 Renaissance drove a very early  
Ursa (think it was
serial #13).   Bill Laverty and Mike Goslin were the engineering  
forces, the prints of Maury's
sandals were everywhere, and if I'm not mistaken Dwaine Maggart was  
DaVinci support and
installation.

--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin founder
rob at colorist.org




From dwainem at blackmagic-design.com  Wed Oct 21 18:59:35 2009
From: dwainem at blackmagic-design.com (Dwaine Maggart)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:59:35 -0700
Subject: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1
In-Reply-To: <1B2AF6CA-8BDD-445E-9076-8928921220D5@colorist.org>
References: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com>
	<1B2AF6CA-8BDD-445E-9076-8928921220D5@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <97485ECF0BEB424ABB0D24B624561C0C@dmduodell>

Yes, any 8:8:8 system will control an URSA. Even some earlier analog
Renaissance systems will control an URSA, if properly equipped. 
And yes Rob, I spent some quality time at Planet Blue with Bill and Mike. :)

Regards,
Dwaine Maggart
Blackmagic Design - DaVinci Support

On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote:

> Quick fact check am I correct that a 888 reniassance ( non DUI )  
> will drive a ursa 1 ?


1990, Planet Blue, Los Angeles:  888 Renaissance drove a very early  
Ursa (think it was
serial #13).   Bill Laverty and Mike Goslin were the engineering  
forces, the prints of Maury's
sandals were everywhere, and if I'm not mistaken Dwaine Maggart was  
DaVinci support and
installation.

--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin founder





From rob at colorist.org  Wed Oct 21 19:07:50 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:07:50 -0200
Subject: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1
In-Reply-To: <97485ECF0BEB424ABB0D24B624561C0C@dmduodell>
References: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com>
	<1B2AF6CA-8BDD-445E-9076-8928921220D5@colorist.org>
	<97485ECF0BEB424ABB0D24B624561C0C@dmduodell>
Message-ID: <853A5F51-49F4-403E-84E5-17CA18D19494@colorist.org>


On Oct 21, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Dwaine Maggart wrote:

> And yes Rob, I spent some quality time at Planet Blue with Bill and  
> Mike. :)

I've seen a few engineering sensations in my time, but the plumbing work
that Bill Laverty did on that installation-- he might as well have  
been Steve
McQueen in _The Sand Pebbles_.

--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org




From dwainem at pacbell.net  Wed Oct 21 19:10:00 2009
From: dwainem at pacbell.net (Dwaine Maggart)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:10:00 -0700
Subject: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1
In-Reply-To: <97485ECF0BEB424ABB0D24B624561C0C@dmduodell>
References: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com><1B2AF6CA-8BDD-445E-9076-8928921220D5@colorist.org>
	<97485ECF0BEB424ABB0D24B624561C0C@dmduodell>
Message-ID: <7191CF3595C24F849334B03D78EA1F42@dmduodell>

I'm sorry, I should qualify my statement below: Any 8:8:8 system CAN control
an URSA, IF it has the correct telecine interface board, and the correct
software. 

Non-dui systems each had a software version specific to the telecine in use.
So the system in question would have to have the correct software loaded,
and the correct telecine interface board installed. The correct board would
have a silkscreened part number on it of 330725.

Sorry for the confusion.

Dwaine


Yes, any 8:8:8 system will control an URSA. Even some earlier analog
Renaissance systems will control an URSA, if properly equipped. 
And yes Rob, I spent some quality time at Planet Blue with Bill and Mike. :)

t.org/wiki3




From rob at colorist.org  Thu Oct 22 18:59:18 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:59:18 -0200
Subject: [Tig] Reference page makeover
Message-ID: <13E18687-DDD4-4F99-85DB-748978DA566E@colorist.org>

The Reference Links section of the TIG Wiki has had a complete update  
that
now includes Wikipedia insert-portals, revised groupings of material,  
and an improved
layout for better readability.   please see
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Useful_reference_links

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach    TIG admin
rob at colorist.org



From ted at tedlangdell.com  Thu Oct 22 19:19:04 2009
From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:19:04 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Reference page makeover
In-Reply-To: <13E18687-DDD4-4F99-85DB-748978DA566E@colorist.org>
References: <13E18687-DDD4-4F99-85DB-748978DA566E@colorist.org>
Message-ID: <2A7A9CC9-255C-49EE-88EE-B0551B5A1965@tedlangdell.com>

Good work, Rob,

I like the "grading gray" theme.  The updates and new info elsewhere  
on the site, are useful and handy.

On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:59 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote:

> The Reference Links section of the TIG Wiki has had a complete  
> update that
> now includes Wikipedia insert-portals, revised groupings of  
> material, and an improved
> layout for better readability.   please see
> http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Useful_reference_links
>
> Rob

Ted Langdell
flashscan8.us
Main: 	(530) 741-1212
Cell: 	(530) 301-2931

ted at flashscan8.us

See you at AMIA 2009 in St. Louis
flashscan8.us







From enigma at turingstudio.com  Thu Oct 22 23:21:26 2009
From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:21:26 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Probes, *meters, LUTs, Oh My!
Message-ID: <7353BE8E-EF0C-4307-85E6-3735471E97FB@turingstudio.com>

hi all,

Soonish I'll post the promised-6500k-lighting-conclusion (along with  
pictures) for the facility, for those that expressed interest. I'm now  
deep into my color management workflow, and it's fun times, fun times.

I'm considering the following:

* cineSpace (cineProfiler, equalEyes, possibly cineCube)
* a cineSpace-supported probe
	* the K-10 (monitor and projector profiling)
	* the Hubble (projector profiling only)
	* the i1Pro (display profiling)

	-or-
	* get Cine-Tal to support the FSI SR-ONE spectroradiometer, which I'm  
working on.

I have a 50 person theatre with a Christie CP2000ZX and want to stay  
P3 throughout the workflow if possible.

I've heard many conflicting reports on the accuracy of all these  
devices except the spectroradiometer, and even then it appears the  
photo research devices read incorrectly in low light. K10s reputedly  
are very (very) fast but not terribly reliable, Hubbles seem to be  
universally employed but *very* inaccurate. Again - this is all  
hyperbole not properly tested by me (which I'd love to do).

---------

So, since I can't (unfortunately) just buy everything, test it all and  
return what I don't like, I'm interested to hear people's opinions  
about cineSpace and the probes in particular.

I'm also interested to know if anyone has done research into the  
difference between an equalEyes-configured display and a simple ICC  
(say, colorsync on a mac) profile with a target. They are both  
manipulating the curves and 1D LUTs in the graphics card so I don't  
see why equalEyes is worth $1k.

So, anyone using the K10 for managing a filmout pipeline? Anyone like  
it? Same with the hubble?

thanks for any input,

_alex



--
alexander black
turing & colorflow
888.603.6023 / main
510.666.0074 / office
root at turingstudio.com



From rob at cinelab.com  Thu Oct 22 21:27:24 2009
From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:27:24 -0400
Subject: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1
In-Reply-To: <7191CF3595C24F849334B03D78EA1F42@dmduodell>
References: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com><1B2AF6CA-8BDD-445E-9076-8928921220D5@colorist.org>
	<97485ECF0BEB424ABB0D24B624561C0C@dmduodell>
	<7191CF3595C24F849334B03D78EA1F42@dmduodell>
Message-ID: <8C934B93-D5D1-42F9-A48F-9E2AD9A03166@cinelab.com>

> The correct board would have a silkscreened part number on it of  
> 330725.

I just got back tot he lab from NYC and I took out the TK control card  
it has a P/N of 300725D and it is a dual frame rack not a single plane  
like our DUI.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
rob at cinelab.com
Vp Cinelab Inc.
www.cinelab.com





From dwainem at blackmagic-design.com  Fri Oct 23 02:40:32 2009
From: dwainem at blackmagic-design.com (Dwaine Maggart)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:40:32 -0700
Subject: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1
In-Reply-To: <8C934B93-D5D1-42F9-A48F-9E2AD9A03166@cinelab.com>
References: <86C36921-8C8B-4A4D-8C25-0EDD50DA9BDE@cinelab.com><1B2AF6CA-8BDD-445E-9076-8928921220D5@colorist.org>
	<97485ECF0BEB424ABB0D24B624561C0C@dmduodell>
	<7191CF3595C24F849334B03D78EA1F42@dmduodell>
	<8C934B93-D5D1-42F9-A48F-9E2AD9A03166@cinelab.com>
Message-ID: <AFA7491CF1C045E885A387B7573D9CE8@dmduodell>

Hi Rob,

Well, I'm a bit baffled. A dual backplane chassis would not have a slot that
a 300725 board could plug into. So, you're saying that board was plugged
into a slot on the right side of the metal dividing wall between the 2
backplanes? If so, that would not be correct. 

A pic would be helpful?

Regards,
Dwaine


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Houllahan [mailto:rob at cinelab.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:27 PM
To: Dwaine Maggart; tig at tig.colorist.org
Subject: Re: [Tig] 888 reniassance and URSA-1

> The correct board would have a silkscreened part number on it of  
> 330725.

I just got back tot he lab from NYC and I took out the TK control card  
it has a P/N of 300725D and it is a dual frame rack not a single plane  
like our DUI.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
rob at cinelab.com
Vp Cinelab Inc.
www.cinelab.com





From rob at colorist.org  Fri Oct 23 21:41:24 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:41:24 -0200
Subject: [Tig] John Aitken.
Message-ID: <89FBF8BA-EF5D-4726-84F1-CCAA2D843BBA@colorist.org>

This week dear friend and colleague John Aitken passed away.

I knew John Aitken since the early 1980s when we worked together at  
Action Video, and then later together at Editel.  I've lost one of my  
best friends whom I will miss very much.

If anyone would like to share their thoughts on a page I've set up on  
the TIG wiki, it is available at
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/John_Aitken

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach
rob at colorist.org



From dtatut at marquise-tech.com  Sat Oct 24 09:22:39 2009
From: dtatut at marquise-tech.com (Dan Tatut)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:22:39 +0200
Subject: [Tig] Probes, *meters, LUTs, Oh My!
In-Reply-To: <7353BE8E-EF0C-4307-85E6-3735471E97FB@turingstudio.com>
References: <7353BE8E-EF0C-4307-85E6-3735471E97FB@turingstudio.com>
Message-ID: <4AE2B94F.5040801@marquise-tech.com>

Hi Alex,

if you are into calibration and LUTs these days, you should have a look 
at this product called CineLUT:

http://www.cine-guard.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30&Itemid=2 
<http://www.cine-guard.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30&Itemid=2>

CineLUT seems to be an amazing piece of software for creating, tweaking, 
converting LUTs. I had a look at it last week during the SATIS show in 
Paris. CineGuard also demonstrated the new version of the software which 
introduces a new simple paradigm for LUTs. Even a kid can understand how 
LUTs work.

Disclaimer: I do not work for CineGuard, do not get paid by them or 
anything else. Just saw a powerful tool that seems to be better than 
what I've seen on the market sofar.

Dan

Dan Tatut

VP Business Strategy & Development

**MARQUISE TECHNOLOGIES SA**

Rue des Avouillons 4

1196 Gland - Switzerland

Tel +41 22 364 54 71

www.marquise-tech.com <http://www.marquise-tech.com/>

alex black wrote:
>
> Soonish I'll post the promised-6500k-lighting-conclusion (along with 
> pictures) for the facility, for those that expressed interest. I'm now 
> deep into my color management workflow, and it's fun times, fun times.
>
> I'm considering the following:

From jim at media-matters.net  Sun Oct 25 17:41:37 2009
From: jim at media-matters.net (Jim Lindner)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:41:37 -0400
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <F3DF4B4E-6843-4CA5-B6B4-F4F62F4586F7@tedlangdell.com>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<ba46594b0910180721n57320e6eyd4a92d7ffa819499@mail.gmail.com>
	<F3DF4B4E-6843-4CA5-B6B4-F4F62F4586F7@tedlangdell.com>
Message-ID: <D246437C-7E36-4BF9-95BE-DB975DFF50F8@media-matters.net>

Wow - miss the TIG for a couple of days and I miss all the fun.

A few comments.

As Ted mentioned there is no shortage of information on this subject  
and if you care to root around you can find out what you need. Here  
are some short blips based on some of the comments in the thread.

In the Jpeg2000 standard there is also MJPEG2000 - but no one that I  
know of uses it because the MJPEG2000 "standard" leaves so much open  
to implementation as to make it unworkable, and as a practical matter  
almost all of the vendors supplying real time product do it in  
hardware - that hardware is made by ADV and only output JPEG2000 as a  
string of frames.... so there is no real way at the moment to  
implement MJPEG2000 and no one really has in this part of the market.

So if there is no specification in the JPEG2000 spec for audio and  
timecode  and synchronization.... how do you deal with it? We chose to  
use MXF as a wrapper to do this heavy lifting for us - so that is why  
there is an MXF wrapper- it handles the parts that ADV Codec does not  
handle. Because part of MXF allows for a generic wrapper we can put  
some of the housekeeping in the wrapper - and others have done this as  
well.

JPEG2000 is a wavelet based compression algorithm and so is very  
different then most of the approaches out there, and while your  
mileage may very, typically find 3:1 savings in aggregate. This is  
intraframe compression so there are no gains based on relationships  
with other frames. Each frame stands on its own and compresses based  
on the complexity of itself. This is truly variable bit rate  
compression. In fact the ADV chip in SD can go pretty much all the way  
up to uncompressed bandwidth if it needs to - but in practice we have  
never seen that happen. I am sure that in the Tig someone has a  
compression breaker that could get it up there, but since each frame  
is independent it is pretty hard to choke. We have not seen it happen.

In our implementation we do have mathematically lossless compression  
on a bitmap level. This is an option - you do not have to use it - but  
most archives do. There may be some semantics here because the source  
material itself likely is compressed and I certainly would consider  
interlace as compression - so you have to determine your terms - but  
bottom line what you got is what is captured in our system which is  
why archives like the Library of Congress are using it. The Library  
has many systems, not  only the robot. They use Solo's throughout the  
facility. The idea is that lossless compression should not change the  
image - and we believe we have accomplished that and several  
independent tests have shown it also.

JPEG2000 was implemented in - wait for it - 2000..... and as such was  
a reaction to some proprietary algorithms and fee based licensing  
schemes, and so the basic JPEG2000 algorithms are in the public domain  
and are "free". As a practical matter the implementations are of  
course proprietary and therefore may not be free and this certainly  
applies to the hardware chips that do the heavy lifting and specific  
implementations that may be out there in the market.

I think that it is fair to say that there is confusion regarding  
JPEG2000 and that confusion does not help anyone. Recently the  
JPEG2000 Alliance has been formed, and you can read about that here:
http://www.rapidtvnews.com/index.php/200909094649/jpeg2000-alliance-meet-for-ibc.html


Regarding disclaimers - well there are a bunch I guess. I invented  
SAMMA and SAMMA Systems was sold to Front Porch Digital about a year  
ago and I still work with the company. I am not speaking for Front  
Porch Digital or The Library of Congress or anyone else.



Jim Lindner

Email: jim at media-matters.net

   Media Matters LLC.
   450 West 31st Street 4th Floor
   New York, N.Y. 10001

eFax (646) 349-4475
Mobile: (917) 945-2662
Office: (212) 268-5528

www.media-matters.net
Media Matters LLC. is a technical consultancy specializing in archival  
audio and video material. We provide advice and analysis, to media  
archives that apply the beneficial advances in technology to  
collection management.




On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Ted Langdell wrote:

> Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.
> IVC http://www.ivchd.com supports the TIG
> **Participate in the Colorist Directory at
> http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist
> ====
>
> On Oct 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Skip Elsheimer wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> Ted Langdell has been working with SAMMA and might be able to  
>> clarify this.
>>
>> There is so much confusion involving JPEG2000 compression vs  
>> MJPEG2000 or
>> MJ2K or whatever that many archives are just saving their video  
>> content as
>> uncompressed.
>>
>> Skip Elsheimer
>> A/V Geeks LLC
>>
>
>
> The very short and untechnical condensation of what has been  
> explained by folks with SAMMA/Front Porch Digital is that one can  
> use the lossless implementation of JPEG2000 wrapped in MXF to create  
> smaller than uncompressed files, which, when restored, provide the  
> user with what was originally encoded.
>
> Let me defer to heads much more wrapped around the details of  
> JPEG2000, lossless and lossy encoding.
>
> SAMMA founder/Media Matters head honcho Jim Lindner would be the guy  
> to ask about how the SAMMA system implements lossless JPEG2000.
>
> Josef Marc of SAMMA (now part of Front Porch Digital) is also very  
> well versed in this and other codecs, and has a long background in  
> system integration with companies such as Sony.
>
> Jim has explained the details of the SAMMA implementation and  
> reasons for its selection many times on the AMIA (Association of  
> Moving Image Archivists) list:
> http://lsv.uky.edu/archives/amia-l.html
>
> Josef has also offered detailed explanations of how it works, and  
> doing so for other codecs.
>
> One can search for discussions here:
> http://lsv.uky.edu/scripts/wa.exe?S1=amia-l
>
> Google should also bring up lists of those discussions.
>
> Front Porch Digital (which purchased the SAMMA Systems last October)  
> maintains a page with a lot of white papers that would also address  
> the issues of lossless and lossy compression, JPEG 2000 and other  
> aspects of video preservation and could provide the information  
> people have been looking for in this thread.
>
> http://www.fpdigital.com/Resource/Whitepapers.aspx
>
> The papers includes a draft version of a Library of Congress paper  
> "Digital Formats for Library of Congress Collections: Factors To  
> Consider When Choosing Digital Formats [PDF] by Caroline R. Arms and  
> Carl Fleischhauer"
>
> Disclosure: My post here is not speaking on behalf of Front Porch  
> Digital.
>
>
> Hope this is helpful.
>
> Ted
>
> Ted Langdell
> flashscan8.us
> Main: 	(530) 741-1212
> Cell: 	(530) 301-2931
>
> ted at flashscan8.us
>
> See you at AMIA 2009 in St. Louis
> http://www.flashscan8.us
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://reels.colorist.org
> http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3


From jdhouston at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 25 20:03:57 2009
From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:03:57 -0700
Subject: [Tig] video compression: lossless? (JPEG2000)
In-Reply-To: <D246437C-7E36-4BF9-95BE-DB975DFF50F8@media-matters.net>
References: <9E46F79B-6420-4CB8-8D45-A3B2161A3841@colorist.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.01.0910171545080.1964@freddy.simplesystems.org>
	<8335A6AC-EA5D-4A30-8F43-208EC0B3203A@colorist.org>
	<ba46594b0910180721n57320e6eyd4a92d7ffa819499@mail.gmail.com>
	<F3DF4B4E-6843-4CA5-B6B4-F4F62F4586F7@tedlangdell.com>
	<D246437C-7E36-4BF9-95BE-DB975DFF50F8@media-matters.net>
Message-ID: <47A044A6-D23D-4640-8552-A65121A1F3A3@earthlink.net>


On Oct 25, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Jim Lindner wrote:
>
> JPEG2000 was implemented in - wait for it - 2000..... and as such  
> was a reaction to some proprietary algorithms and fee based  
> licensing schemes, and so the basic JPEG2000 algorithms are in the  
> public domain and are "free".

Of course, MPEG is not license-free which is likely the more important  
reason that it is not used as often.


Jim Houston
Sony Pictures Entertainment


From rob at colorist.org  Mon Oct 26 15:24:14 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:24:14 -0200
Subject: [Tig] Adriano Mestroni featured on the TIG
Message-ID: <951A238B-F75B-4B80-B7CF-53030C9065A8@colorist.org>

Adriano Mestroni's work is now featured on the TIG main page at
http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Main_Page   in rotation with
Beau Leon, Bob Festa, Micah Kirz, Michael Thibodeau, and
Rob Lingelbach.  You may have to reload the page one or more
times to rotate around (random sequence) to Adriano.  To go directly
to his montage: http://reels.colorist.org    and choose from the  
offerings.

The logos on this page now dissolve in a 6 second sequence, and include
click-through to the associated supporter's website (which took some
serious programming time to accomplish).   The TIG continues to use all
the latest Mediawiki and concomitant open-source software.

The Reels site and the TIG itself return very high search results very
quickly due to web longevity and other factors.

Other colorists' work gladly accepted, as well as updates for reels.

Rob    Colorist Services since 1992
--
Rob Lingelbach    TIG admin founder
rob at colorist.org



From hdcolorist at gmail.com  Mon Oct 26 20:31:07 2009
From: hdcolorist at gmail.com (G. Conners)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:31:07 -0500
Subject: [Tig] Davinci 2K Plus display monitor
Message-ID: <9c3211740910261331t477778d3n4bb4d2f857cad827@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I need to replace the LCD that displays the davinci desktop, my Viewsonic
just died. Does anyone have experience replacing the LCD for a davinci 2K
Plus system? Not the grading monitor, I need to replace the LCD that
displays the davinci desktop. I thought you could use just about any LCD as
long as it supported 1600 x 1200 but apparently it has to run at 75 htz
according to the video card in the 2K. I've heard where some places have
used inexpensive LCD's for the 2K display but haven't found anyone who is
actually doing it. I went out and bought an Acer X233H which will do full HD
but it apparently only works at 60htz. Any ideas out there? Is there a way
is there a way to make the Acer work at 60 htz or do I have to buy a 19",
1600 x 1200 75htz monitor- whatever brand fits the bill.
 Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Greg Conners,
Color Grading Artist
MVI post



Greg Conners, Color Grading Artist
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gconners
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2178122/
http://www.facebook.com/people/Greg-Conners/1305159140
www.mvipost.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hdcolorist/
hdcolorist at gmail.com
greg.c at mvipost.com
703-536-7678

"Life is a comedy for those who think... and a tragedy for those who feel"

From dwainem at pacbell.net  Mon Oct 26 21:28:15 2009
From: dwainem at pacbell.net (Dwaine Maggart)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:28:15 -0700
Subject: [Tig] Davinci 2K Plus display monitor
In-Reply-To: <9c3211740910261331t477778d3n4bb4d2f857cad827@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c3211740910261331t477778d3n4bb4d2f857cad827@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF53A33465A04C3D97BD36A9BB56B654@dmduodell>

Ideally, you want a 1600x1200, in a 19-20" size range (if you care about it
fitting inside a console).

Dell has a suitable display:

Dell Part# : A2450994  which is an LG L2000CP-BF 

(I can't guarantee this one will fit into ALL consoles that existing
displays might be sitting in, but it likely will in most cases). 

1600x1200 displays are almost impossible to find now. You almost certainly
won't find them at your local electronics or PC emporium. Dell is about the
last place I know to get one. Hope this helps!

Regards,
Dwaine 

Blackmagic Design - DaVinci Support

-----Original Message-----
From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf
Of G. Conners
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:31 PM
To: TIG
Subject: [Tig] Davinci 2K Plus display monitor

Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.
Quantel first to release RED Rocket Support: http://tinyurl.com/quantel-red
**Participate in the Colorist Directory at
http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist
====

Hi all,

I need to replace the LCD that displays the davinci desktop, my Viewsonic
just died. Does anyone have experience replacing the LCD for a davinci 2K
Plus system? Not the grading monitor, I need to replace the LCD that
displays the davinci desktop. I thought you could use just about any LCD as
long as it supported 1600 x 1200 but apparently it has to run at 75 htz
according to the video card in the 2K. I've heard where some places have
used inexpensive LCD's for the 2K display but haven't found anyone who is
actually doing it. I went out and bought an Acer X233H which will do full HD
but it apparently only works at 60htz. Any ideas out there? Is there a way
is there a way to make the Acer work at 60 htz or do I have to buy a 19",
1600 x 1200 75htz monitor- whatever brand fits the bill.
 Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Greg Conners,
Color Grading Artist
MVI post



Greg Conners, Color Grading Artist
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gconners
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2178122/
http://www.facebook.com/people/Greg-Conners/1305159140
www.mvipost.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hdcolorist/
hdcolorist at gmail.com
greg.c at mvipost.com
703-536-7678

"Life is a comedy for those who think... and a tragedy for those who feel"
_______________________________________________
http://reels.colorist.org
http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3



From GGush at Fujifilm.com  Tue Oct 27 18:18:10 2009
From: GGush at Fujifilm.com (Gush, George)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:18:10 -0700
Subject: [Tig] George Gush  Fuji Motion Picture Film saying saying HI1
Message-ID: <B3FA9F7B373EF9489B52B6158950875E8E9B60@CYP-EX-MBVS-01.corp.fujifilm.com>

Hey Rob, just saying Hi! I'm the Technical Sales Manager North American
Motion Picture Products at Fuji Film in Burbank, CA. Any one needs TAF,
my contact information is below. 

 

George Gush

Technical Sales Manager

North American Motion Picture Group

FUJIFILM U.S.A., INC.

323 957 8824

Toll Free 888-424-3854

Cell 818-397-1886

FAX 323-465-8279

Email ggush at fujifilm.com

 


From sklein54 at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 27 19:38:00 2009
From: sklein54 at earthlink.net (sklein54 at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:38:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Tig] George Gush  Fuji Motion Picture Film saying saying HI1
Message-ID: <28911982.1256672280893.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hey George...Scott Klein here...Good to hear you.

-----Original Message-----
>
>Hey Rob, just saying Hi! I'm the Technical Sales Manager North American
>Motion Picture Products at Fuji Film in Burbank, CA. Any one needs TAF,
>my contact information is below. 
>
> 
>
>George Gush

From stipantim at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 28 11:44:34 2009
From: stipantim at yahoo.com (Stipantim)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 04:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tig] George Gush  Fuji Motion Picture Film saying saying HI1
Message-ID: <45064.471.qm@web56205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Your the man George! Thanks for your help in getting me a set!!!

Tim Stipan
Technicolor New York

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 27, 2009, at 3:38 PM, sklein54 at earthlink.net wrote:

Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.
Cintel supports TIG see new site: http://usedtelecine.com
**Participate in the Colorist Directory at
http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist
====

Hey George...Scott Klein here...Good to hear you.

-----Original Message-----

Hey Rob, just saying Hi! I'm the Technical Sales Manager North American
Motion Picture Products at Fuji Film in Burbank, CA. Any one needs TAF,
my contact information is below. 



George Gush
_______________________________________________
http://reels.colorist.org
http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3



      


From chili.styles at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 12:54:18 2009
From: chili.styles at gmail.com (Bojan Mastilovic)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:54:18 +0100
Subject: [Tig] Materilas for DCP
Message-ID: <198fc9800910290554mf6d4791rbd3bbdf005dd0dbf@mail.gmail.com>

Hello there.
We are doing - first time DCP for feature film.
The film is few years old and they have both interpositive and
internegative.
What should we take for the scanning source in this matter, so we do not
have to grade the film once more.
We are aware that we must do log-XYZ colorspace conversion.

kind regards,


-- 
Bojan Mastilovic
Producer
Restart Production
www.restart.si

From cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net  Thu Oct 29 15:33:23 2009
From: cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net (=?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYyBMZWpldW5l?=)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:33:23 +0100
Subject: [Tig] Materilas for DCP
In-Reply-To: <198fc9800910290554mf6d4791rbd3bbdf005dd0dbf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <198fc9800910290554mf6d4791rbd3bbdf005dd0dbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE9B5C3.3070700@free.fr>

Hi Bojan,

the best quality should be the interpositive but you would still have to 
do a trim pass to recover the look of the final print. What are you 
using, a telecine, a scanner?
If you are working Rec709 most DCP packager have a Rec709 to XYZ preset.

Cedric Lejeune
www.workflowers.net
pipelines&workflows
currently in Lisbon and enjoying it


From rob at cinelab.com  Thu Oct 29 23:53:11 2009
From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:53:11 -0400
Subject: [Tig] Cheap Monitoring
Message-ID: <53F3D694-068A-4386-842C-537CB4FEF6BC@cinelab.com>

Hi

So there are now a number of 10bit LED lit LCD "TV's" out there in the  
32"-55" range some of them are RGB LED's any thoughts about using one  
of these with an AJA 10bit SDI to Hdmi 1.3 box? Or should I look at  
the Dream Color? I have liked the Kuro plasmas but not if I have to re- 
calibrate them every other day.

I would like a 32" set and a 1080P projector so i could choose ....

Are the hi end consumer panels getting close? I am not super impressed  
with the hi end "grading" Lcd's I have seen...


-Rob-


Robert Houllahan
rob at cinelab.com
Vp Cinelab Inc.
www.cinelab.com





From mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 23:44:48 2009
From: mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com (Mark Randal)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:44:48 -0700
Subject: [Tig] JPEG2000 to DPX for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate.
Message-ID: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Can anybody suggest the best file format for filmouts without quality loss
and takes less file size.
As we know 2K DPX or Cineon are good for filmouts, but its size is aprox
12MB taking more time to FTP.

We offer filmout / filmrecording services for independent film makers world
wide. Most of our clients ship us dpx files on drives from different
countries, but few of our trailer filmout clients send us DPX or CIN Files
via FTP which takes more time to upload & download.

One of our client wants to send JPEG2000 files for filmout, we haven't tried
this format, did anybody try it for filmouts or digital intermediate. Is
there any quality loss.

Also can you suggest any software's which can convert JPEG2000 to DPX files
without quality loss.


Mark
mark at indyfilmout.com
www.indyfilmout.com

From rob at colorist.org  Sat Oct 31 23:49:57 2009
From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:49:57 -0200
Subject: [Tig] JPEG2000 to DPX for Filmout Transfer & Digital
	Intermediate.
In-Reply-To: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com>
References: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3922F00D-25E5-45D3-82E4-C9D4EDCE74F6@colorist.org>


On Oct 31, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Mark Randal wrote:

> One of our client wants to send JPEG2000 files for filmout, we  
> haven't tried
> this format, did anybody try it for filmouts or digital  
> intermediate. Is
> there any quality loss.

interestingly, just a few days ago we were talking about JPEG2000 -  
that it can
be lossless.  Here is the start of the thread in the archives:

http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2009-October/016828.html

> Also can you suggest any software's which can convert JPEG2000 to  
> DPX files
> without quality loss.

Hopefully someone else can help with that question.

Rob
--
Rob Lingelbach   TIG admin founder
rob at colorist.org