From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Sun Nov 1 01:11:36 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:11:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] JPEG2000 to DPX for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate. In-Reply-To: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com> References: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Mark Randal wrote: > > Also can you suggest any software's which can convert JPEG2000 to > DPX files without quality loss. GraphicsMagick can do that in conjunction with the Jasper JPEG2000 library. This assumes RGB JPEG2000 rather than XYZ. The main concern about "loss" is the metadata which appears in DPX file headers (e.g. time code) since JPEG2000 normally does not support any of it. There could be issues if you want to do a linear to log conversion at the same time. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From dtatut at marquise-tech.com Sun Nov 1 08:21:31 2009 From: dtatut at marquise-tech.com (Dan Tatut) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:21:31 +0100 Subject: [Tig] JPEG2000 to DPX for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate. In-Reply-To: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com> References: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AED450B.8010309@marquise-tech.com> Hi Mark, try www.xnview.com it's free, has a UI, is capable of batch conversion and handles DPX to JPEG2000 lossless compression and vice versa. when it comes to indy films, I've seen people sending H264 compressed quicktimes for print. It's often a question of low-cost editing on FCP and no money to conform the project on a higher cost station to deliver DPX files. I hope that helps Dan Dan Tatut VP Business Strategy & Development **MARQUISE TECHNOLOGIES SA** Rue des Avouillons 4 1196 Gland - Switzerland Tel +41 22 364 54 71 www.marquise-tech.com From blumediaprojekt at nerdshack.com Sun Nov 1 20:54:06 2009 From: blumediaprojekt at nerdshack.com (R. Adam Berk) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 12:54:06 -0800 Subject: [Tig] matrix compositing? Message-ID: <5AE64060-1031-4504-8668-1CC0A142FC57@nerdshack.com> Does anyone know what happened to Chrome Imaging? Adam Berk Creative Technology West Smoke/Flame artist and C>me development team T. +13303103950 E. adam at ct-sf.com From cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net Mon Nov 2 07:20:25 2009 From: cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net (Cedric Lejeune) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:20:25 +0100 Subject: [Tig] JPEG2000 to DPX for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate. In-Reply-To: <4AED450B.8010309@marquise-tech.com> References: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com> <4AED450B.8010309@marquise-tech.com> Message-ID: <4AEE8839.4010105@free.fr> Hi all, xnview is not free for commercial use, + the processing is 8bit, a lot of my clients got caught with 8bit Cineon or DPX, not fun. Still it's a great app for viewing and to do a lot of things. Cedric Lejeune www.workflowers.net pipelines&workflows La Madeleine, France Dan Tatut a écrit : > > try www.xnview.com > > it's free, has a UI, is capable of batch conversion and handles DPX to > JPEG2000 lossless compression and vice versa. > From dtatut at marquise-tech.com Mon Nov 2 09:13:09 2009 From: dtatut at marquise-tech.com (Dan Tatut) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:13:09 +0100 Subject: [Tig] JPEG2000 to DPX for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate. In-Reply-To: <4AEE8839.4010105@free.fr> References: <156cdb200910311644s339b8ef4u12fd8ccf59e5a829@mail.gmail.com> <4AED450B.8010309@marquise-tech.com> <4AEE8839.4010105@free.fr> Message-ID: <4AEEA2A5.8030606@marquise-tech.com> I must have been sleepy... but again I never used xnview for commercial work. Nevertheless it's a nice and handy tool Dan Dan Tatut VP Business Strategy & Development **MARQUISE TECHNOLOGIES SA** Rue des Avouillons 4 1196 Gland - Switzerland Tel +41 22 364 54 71 www.marquise-tech.com Cedric Lejeune wrote: > Hi all, > xnview is not free for commercial use, + the processing is 8bit, a lot > of my clients got caught with 8bit Cineon or DPX, not fun. > Still it's a great app for viewing and to do a lot of things. > > Cedric Lejeune > www.workflowers.net > pipelines&workflows > La Madeleine, France > > Dan Tatut a écrit : >> >> try www.xnview.com >> >> it's free, has a UI, is capable of batch conversion and handles DPX >> to JPEG2000 lossless compression and vice versa. >> > > From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 2 16:36:51 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:36:51 -0200 Subject: [Tig] color nomenclature tool Message-ID: <576F119E-69A5-4D25-8575-99A4601BF37A@colorist.org> I wanted to incorporate on the TIG wiki one of the better tools for color nomenclature, which includes a color picker with RGB or HSB selection and readout and web hex color, but most importantly, one with a very large color dictionary. One of the best ones is Daniel Flück's work which he graciously gave me permission to use in the TIG wiki. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Color_Picker I find the color naming conventions as interesting as the actual variations; who determined that a color of R=0 G=88 B=96 should be called Mosque? or that G=76 B=79 should be Sherpa Blue? Which I wouldn't mind in a Ferrari Dino. The lexicon in this Color Picker includes about 1,640 color names, many of them compiled from various sources by Daniel and his wife. One could consider, perhaps with trepidation, allowing a client at the console to suggest colors to the colorist. That may expand some vocabularies when using the lexicon readout of the Picker. Display gamuts, LUTs, etc. are then certainly fodder for extensive further discussion. There are no explicit or implied warranties regarding the accuracy of the colors, considering all the possible variables between the original coding and the eventual display device and eye of beholder. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 2 22:33:46 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:33:46 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Twitter feed available on TIG wiki Message-ID: Colorists who are so inclined can now make use of Twitter feeds on the TIG wiki. An example is available, with instructions, at: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Test_colorist which puts it in the Colorist Directory for colorist "Test Colorist." The same syntax can be used on any wiki page, for example, on your personal page (when you log in, the page you get when you click on your name), your 'talk' or 'discussion' page. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 3 02:16:30 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 00:16:30 -0200 Subject: [Tig] TIG Twitter Message-ID: <8C56BAB4-9F91-4347-B39B-BD6CC7306217@colorist.org> After a couple of suggestions, have created a TIG Twitter feed page. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Twitter_feed It's also listed in the Navbar on the left. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 4 22:26:01 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:26:01 -0200 Subject: [Tig] which state is in the best light Message-ID: <6A8A352D-AD18-443B-9F76-15EDFABBCB97@colorist.org> There are many colorists among us who have probably graded film shot in every state of the U.S. There are certain states that I'll always remember for the quality of their light, at particular altitudes and seasons. Northern New Mexico, up on the high mesas, where the clouds are only a thousand feet or so above you, can have a beautiful delicate light. Idaho and Montana can be even more delicate for their more northern aspect, longer rays in the winter. The northeastern US has it over most other states in the fall, for the trees anyway. I was going over the state film production incentives chart today for October 2009, and some states jumped out at me for being particularly aggressive in courting production. Connecticut: 30% tax credit on production, preproduction, and postproduction. In my cursory look, it was just Texas, Kentucky and Utah that also mentioned post, and nowhere near that 30%. question: what ends up being the difference between a Tax Credit and a Cash Reimbursement, or Rebate? Can one be much more attractive at certain budget levels, than the other? New Mexico, as a friend pointed out, is offering 25% tax credit on all direct production expenses, plus a 0% loan. When you consider that the conditions in that state for location shooting can rival or better California's, it prompts a look at that latter state's initiatives, which are not quite as liberal. Chart at http://www.sag.org/state-film-incentives Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin founder rob at colorist.org From bobfesta at mac.com Wed Nov 4 22:35:57 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:35:57 -0800 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <6A8A352D-AD18-443B-9F76-15EDFABBCB97@colorist.org> References: <6A8A352D-AD18-443B-9F76-15EDFABBCB97@colorist.org> Message-ID: <8D828D8F-75CD-4B2B-A42D-B30FD491142A@mac.com> Hey All, I have a client requesting S8 to 2k data. Any takers? Workflow and price. Bob Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV From stipantim at yahoo.com Thu Nov 5 00:30:33 2009 From: stipantim at yahoo.com (Stipantim) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:30:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data Message-ID: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Bob, I don't think there is a machine out there that can do S8 to 2K. At Technicolor New York we X-fer S8 to Hdcam SR and up Rez it to fit into the shows resolution ie 2048X1234. Surely Tech would take on the job if your client wants to ship it out here? Tim Stipan Sent from my iPhone On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Bob Festa wrote: Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. Cintel supports TIG see new site: http://usedtelecine.com **Participate in the Colorist Directory at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist ==== Hey All, I have a client requesting S8 to 2k data. Any takers? Workflow and price. Bob Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at cinelab.com Thu Nov 5 01:03:23 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:03:23 -0500 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <8D828D8F-75CD-4B2B-A42D-B30FD491142A@mac.com> References: <6A8A352D-AD18-443B-9F76-15EDFABBCB97@colorist.org> <8D828D8F-75CD-4B2B-A42D-B30FD491142A@mac.com> Message-ID: <70934588-7EAB-4076-B8DE-A930E452E713@cinelab.com> > > I have a client requesting S8 to 2k data. Any takers? If Phil Vidget at Pro-8 got the option the Millenium Scanner should do data from S8... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Thu Nov 5 01:08:42 2009 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:08:42 -0600 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FF3A5DF-3E51-4D8E-8BFF-D9DA1793808C@mindspring.com> On Nov 4, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Stipantim wrote: > I don't think there is a machine out there that can do S8 to 2K. There is a machine that can do S8 (or 8, 9.5, 17.5 and other formats) to 2.4K (2400 x 1800, full frame or overscanned as desired) or anything smaller than that. It can handle damaged and shrunken film. Contact Buck Bito in SF -- he has one. Buck Bito - VTC Jeff "being very careful to not be commercial" Kreines From peter at kaurus.com Thu Nov 5 01:22:55 2009 From: peter at kaurus.com (Peter Sutton) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 01:22:55 +0000 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, way back when I was with ITK, we had a S8 gate on a Millennium 4k (big grains!). I don't know if Cintel still offer a S8 option to new or existing Millennium users but it might be worth looking up who still runs Millenniums out there. Cheers, Peter Sutton Kaurus Ltd +44(0)7779 242790 Peter at Kaurus.com www.Kaurus.com From craig at optimus.com Thu Nov 5 05:42:03 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:42:03 -0600 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There were some S8 gates made for Spirit classics allegedly. Those could do 2k in theory, although slowly... There are some folks with custom scanners that can also do this. There's a guy in Chicago who may be able to as well on a custom scan rig. Pm me if that sounds interesting Mr. Festa, oh great Oz..... ;) CL On Nov 4, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Stipantim wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Cintel supports TIG see new site: http://usedtelecine.com > **Participate in the Colorist Directory at > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist > ==== > > Bob, > > I don't think there is a machine out there that can do S8 to 2K. At > Technicolor New York we X-fer S8 to Hdcam SR and up Rez it to fit > into the shows resolution ie 2048X1234. Surely Tech would take on > the job if your client wants to ship it out here? > > Tim Stipan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 4, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Bob Festa wrote: > > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Cintel supports TIG see new site: http://usedtelecine.com > **Participate in the Colorist Directory at > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist > ==== > > Hey All, > > I have a client requesting S8 to 2k data. Any takers? > > Workflow and price. > > Bob > > Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 > Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit NewHat.TV > Write bob at NewHat.TV > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com Thu Nov 5 04:34:21 2009 From: mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com (Mark Randal) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:34:21 -0800 Subject: [Tig] DPX or TGA to H264 for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate. Message-ID: <156cdb200911042034q7f668be4re5f2f9053806245b@mail.gmail.com> Please suggest any software's to convert DPX and TGA images to H264 and vice versa. Hope there is no quality loss or compression when i convert. Other than FCP. Mark. On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 12:21 AM, Dan Tatut wrote: > Hi Mark, > > when it comes to indy films, I've seen people sending H264 compressed > quicktimes for print. It's often a question of low-cost editing on FCP and > no money to conform the project on a higher cost station to deliver DPX > files. > > I hope that helps > > Dan > > Dan Tatut > > VP Business Strategy & Development > > **MARQUISE TECHNOLOGIES SA** > > Rue des Avouillons 4 > > 1196 Gland - Switzerland > > Tel +41 22 364 54 71 > > www.marquise-tech.com > > Mark Randal wrote: > >> Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >> Cintel supports TIG see new site: http://usedtelecine.com >> **Participate in the Colorist Directory at >> http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist >> ==== >> >> >> Hello, >> >> Can anybody suggest the best file format for filmouts without quality loss >> and takes less file size. >> As we know 2K DPX or Cineon are good for filmouts, but its size is aprox >> 12MB taking more time to FTP. >> >> We offer filmout / filmrecording services for independent film makers >> world >> wide. Most of our clients ship us dpx files on drives from different >> countries, but few of our trailer filmout clients send us DPX or CIN Files >> via FTP which takes more time to upload & download. >> >> One of our client wants to send JPEG2000 files for filmout, we haven't >> tried >> this format, did anybody try it for filmouts or digital intermediate. Is >> there any quality loss. >> >> Also can you suggest any software's which can convert JPEG2000 to DPX >> files >> without quality loss. >> >> >> Mark >> mark at indyfilmout.com >> www.indyfilmout.com >> _______________________________________________ >> http://reels.colorist.org >> http:/tig.colorist.org/wiki3 >> > > From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Thu Nov 5 10:52:17 2009 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:52:17 -0000 (GMT) Subject: [Tig] color nomenclature tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8564.10.44.0.4.1257418337.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> Rob Lingelbach writes... > To: "tig at colorist.org Group" > Subject: [Tig] color nomenclature tool > Message-ID: <576F119E-69A5-4D25-8575-99A4601BF37A at colorist.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I wanted to incorporate on the TIG wiki one of the better tools for > color nomenclature, > which includes a color picker with RGB or HSB selection and readout > and web hex color, but most importantly, one with a very large color > dictionary. One of the best ones is Daniel Flück's > work which he graciously gave me permission to use in the TIG wiki. > > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Color_Picker > > I find the color naming conventions as interesting as the actual > variations; who determined that a color of R=0 G=88 B=96 should be > called Mosque? or that G=76 B=79 should be Sherpa Blue? Which I > wouldn't mind in a Ferrari Dino. No Cambridge Blue? Bah. > There are no explicit or implied warranties regarding the accuracy of > the colors, considering all the possible variables between the > original coding and the eventual display device and eye of beholder. True. We don't know the display or the tone curve or the viewing conditions. However, things are not necessarily that bad. If the display is self-luminous then the user can look at it in reduced lighting if they want to be accurate. Dark is the same everywhere, so that ought to work. We are then looking at the color on a self-luminous screen with other stuff that gives us the sense of display white. That is not a bad criterion for viewing conditions. We do not know the monitor white, but most monitor whites are about D65 these days. There is no simple test for D65. The monitor gamma is not specified. However, there are a set of gamma tools at the bottom of... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction I have an image which can be used to estimate monitor gamma at highlights, mid-tones and shadows (I will post it if I can find it). If we agreed a gamma, then this would determine the red, green, and blue brightness ratios for the higher values. Down in the low values, display gammas are not constant (they can increase sharply or flatten off to zero) so very dim colors can probably not be trusted. We do not know the monitor RGB primaries. However, if R=G=B looks neutral and the monitor can display other images correctly, then they are probably close to the standard ITU or EBU phosphor sets. If we increase the monitor brightness, our sense of color increases (the Hunt effect). If we increase the saturation, our sense of brightness can increase (the Stevens effect). In practical terms, we are probably ranging our sense of color to fit what we see, and we will not spot the difference between a video display and a video+10% display unless they are put next to each other. I vividly remember seeing the same video signal going to a Sony BVM and a Barco DP90P, and the red on the Sony looking red until the Barco turned on, when it promptly turned orange. In this case, the worded description of a color is probably a fair match to our internal sense of that color if we do not have any color stimuli coming from outside the display. Of course, that is an easy thing to say as we have no way of measuring our internal sense of color. I suspect the tool would work well enough. But, is it useful? Cheers. Richard Kirk From rob at cinelab.com Thu Nov 5 01:43:37 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:43:37 -0500 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: References: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0503B778-4EBF-40E7-9780-228977D8F4DB@cinelab.com> > way back when I was with ITK, we had a S8 gate on a Millennium 4k > (big grains!). I don't know if Cintel still offer a S8 option to new > or existing Millennium users but it might be worth looking up who > still runs Millenniums out there. > > Cheers, > Peter Sutton Phil Vidget has one (MM2) with a S8 gate at Pro8mm in LA.....Dont know if he is setup for Data... it is a fairly recent setup. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From ken at flight4.org Thu Nov 5 15:00:16 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:00:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: References: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <142022.10736.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Actually Mike Waldie, Vıdeo Engıneerıng has just (first installation going in now) built a multiformat Spirit gate. Ken Robinson Senior Freelance Colourist ________________________________ From: Craig Leffel To: Stipantim Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. Cintel supports TIG see new site: http://usedtelecine.com **Participate in the Colorist Directory at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist ==== There were some S8 gates made for Spirit classics allegedly. Those could do 2k in theory, although slowly... From bobfesta at mac.com Thu Nov 5 16:34:05 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:34:05 -0800 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: References: <408556.413.qm@web56207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks for the 20 or so responses that I received on this topic. As you can imagine, the responses were varied in the approaches. Hopefully, Mike Waldie will ride in on the white horse with his S8 V3S data gate soon. Bob Festa Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit www.NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV From bobfesta at mac.com Thu Nov 5 16:58:21 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:58:21 -0800 Subject: [Tig] 35mm cinema film projector wanted Message-ID: <99F25845-8E61-4A3C-9F22-20CBB68236B6@mac.com> Hi All, New Hat is in the market for a used 35mm film projector for cinema use in a DI theatre. This will primarily be used for side by side film out color evaluation and testing in a butterfly configuration. I've got some favorites in mind, but I'll consider all opportunities. Please contact Richard at newhat.tv Naturally, the TIG will receive a donation upon completion of a sale. Thanks again, Bob Bob Festa Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit www.NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV From agustingoya at wancamp.com.ar Thu Nov 5 19:52:42 2009 From: agustingoya at wancamp.com.ar (Agustin Goya | Wancamp) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 16:52:42 -0300 Subject: [Tig] DPX or TGA to H264 for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate. In-Reply-To: <156cdb200911042034q7f668be4re5f2f9053806245b@mail.gmail.com> References: <156cdb200911042034q7f668be4re5f2f9053806245b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46f4bf60911051152j39b9a8fdl596954360b12608a@mail.gmail.com> Silver Stack also seems to do the job http://pomfort.com/silverstack/ I don't have any connection to this company Agustin Goya WANCAMP | POST +54-11-6545-2427 http://www.wancamp.com.ar/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2339496/ From cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net Thu Nov 5 18:19:56 2009 From: cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net (=?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYyBMZWpldW5l?=) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:19:56 +0100 Subject: [Tig] DPX or TGA to H264 for Filmout Transfer & Digital Intermediate. In-Reply-To: <156cdb200911042034q7f668be4re5f2f9053806245b@mail.gmail.com> References: <156cdb200911042034q7f668be4re5f2f9053806245b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF3174C.2090103@free.fr> Hi Mark, if it's H264 it is compressed and there is loss. More specifically if you start from 10bit DPX and go to H264 you loose 2bit of info, and since the algorithm is usually implemented in a quite destructive fashion even with high settings you would have things that look OK on a video or computer monitor, but would suffer quite a tad when going thru the process of film recording because of the various curve correction. What is your concern in carrying the best quality? The time of transfer are usually not a problem when compared to film recording (until you work with a Cinevator of course :) and drives are ridiculously cheap. Cedric Lejeune www.workflowers.net pipelines&workflows > H264 and vice > versa. > Hope there is no quality loss or compression when i convert. > From dlt at earthlink.net Sat Nov 7 03:13:09 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:13:09 -0800 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <8D828D8F-75CD-4B2B-A42D-B30FD491142A@mac.com> References: <6A8A352D-AD18-443B-9F76-15EDFABBCB97@colorist.org> <8D828D8F-75CD-4B2B-A42D-B30FD491142A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4AF4E5C5.4040501@earthlink.net> Bob Festa wrote: > I have a client requesting S8 to 2k data. Any takers? With all the fine suggestions as to gates and telecine combinations that may or not exist, has anyone asked "why?" Who (besides Mr Swinson) would claim there was any information in S8mm film that could not be extracted by a 625 real time (4:4:4 if you insist) transfer? Then up-rez to "2K" if that is what pipes into your workflow. David Tosh From enigma at turingstudio.com Sat Nov 7 21:09:43 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 13:09:43 -0800 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <4AF4E5C5.4040501@earthlink.net> References: <6A8A352D-AD18-443B-9F76-15EDFABBCB97@colorist.org> <8D828D8F-75CD-4B2B-A42D-B30FD491142A@mac.com> <4AF4E5C5.4040501@earthlink.net> Message-ID: While there certainly is not 2k of "real picture" on S8, a 2k scan (or, haha, better, a 4k scan downsampled to 2k) would doubtless be of far higher perceived quality than upres'd SD. You get noise, but you get nice pretty "organic" noise, not artifacts from scaling. _a -- alexander black turing & colorflow 888 603 6023 / main 510 666 0074 / direct root at turingstudio.com --typed with thumbs-- On Nov 6, 2009, at 7:13 PM, David Tosh wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Cintel supports TIG see new site: http://usedtelecine.com > **Participate in the Colorist Directory at > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist > ==== > > Bob Festa wrote: >> I have a client requesting S8 to 2k data. Any takers? > > With all the fine suggestions as to gates and telecine combinations > that may or not exist, has anyone asked "why?" > > Who (besides Mr Swinson) would claim there was any information in > S8mm film that could not be extracted by a 625 real time (4:4:4 if > you insist) transfer? Then up-rez to "2K" if that is what pipes into > your workflow. > > David Tosh > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From mfw at musictrax.com Sun Nov 8 03:43:06 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:43:06 -0800 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <4AF4E5C5.4040501@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 11/6/09 7:13 PM, "David Tosh" wrote: > Who (besides Mr Swinson) would claim there was any > information in S8mm film that could not be extracted by a 625 real time > (4:4:4 if you insist) transfer? Then up-rez to "2K" if that is what pipes > into your workflow. >------------------------------------------------------------< I would argue, rather than go to 2K data, just transfer it to 24PsF HDCam (or SR 4:4:4), and then transfer the tape as 2K DPX files for the final workflow. I bet that would look better than PAL. I'm not convinced there's a drastic difference for 16mm going to HDCam vs. scanning as data, either. Even with 35mm, there's plenty of DI projects that have gone through SR as an interim scanning medium, and they came out fine. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From ken at flight4.org Sun Nov 8 07:48:52 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 23:48:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Hogi Message-ID: <572150.49013.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Thoughts for the family, colleagues and friends of Hogi. Ken Robinson Senior Colourist From rob at colorist.org Sun Nov 8 19:42:57 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:42:57 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Jim Hogan References: <8CC2E24BD0939F3-5F4-B59@angweb-usd008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1308EE1C-EA70-4AE9-A47A-7379E1CF165B@colorist.org> Begin forwarded message: > From: videoengineering at compuserve.com > Date: November 7, 2009 10:51:27 PM GMT-02:00 > To: rob at colorist.org > Subject: Jim Hogan > > Dear All, > > Please pass on to the TIG: > > Earlier today we heard the sad news that colorist Jim Hogan, known > to most of us as Hogi, died last (Friday) evening. He had been > unwell for some time, but had just been let out of hospital and so > we hoped he was improving - but this was not to be. No more details > known at this time. In the words of his own email signature tag: > "one small step ,,,, ONE GIANT MAN". > > Teresa Firlit > Video Engineering > tel: +44-1787-461434 > fax: +44-1787-461672 > FILM4EVER -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Sun Nov 8 19:45:34 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 17:45:34 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Video Engineering help Message-ID: <19D1CB1C-35EC-4FF9-BA63-5F9F801BE5A5@colorist.org> I'm in need of the address and phone for Video Engineering in England. If anyone can help, please advise. (T of VE must not be receiving my mail nor that of a few others I've asked to contact her) thank you very much. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Sun Nov 8 20:48:48 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 18:48:48 -0200 Subject: [Tig] new on TIG classifieds Message-ID: at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds • Luciano Martins, Jr. Colorist/Assistant Colorist I've 4 years experience as Jr. Colorist. I'm fluent in daVinci 2K and daVinci 8:8:8, Apple Color, keylink/indaw and HD VTR. I'm looking for a temporary or permanent position as Jr. Colorist or Assistant Colorist in all Canada. Reel and references available under request. lucianomartins [at] live.com [20091108] • Wanted, Ursa 1 Manual I'm looking for a manual - technical and/or user for my Ursa 1. I recently bought 1 to set up my own independent studio and need help getting it going. Thank you in advance. Sanj sanj.sharma [at] sympatico.com [20091108] -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From colourblonde at hotmail.com Mon Nov 9 10:58:57 2009 From: colourblonde at hotmail.com (martin wells) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:58:57 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Jim Hogan In-Reply-To: <1308EE1C-EA70-4AE9-A47A-7379E1CF165B@colorist.org> References: <8CC2E24BD0939F3-5F4-B59@angweb-usd008.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I had the pleasure of meeting Hogi when we were both working in Amsterdam. I had just moved to Europe and although we didn't work together, he really took me under his wing. He was always up for a night out, a good meal, a bottle or two of wine and a lot of laughs. He taught me what it is to be a proper colourist as well as always keeping a professional attitude. He was a truly great man. My heart goes out to all of his family. He will be greatly missed. Martin Wells colourblonde at hotmail.com www.colourblonde.com From frank at opticalart.de Mon Nov 9 13:27:05 2009 From: frank at opticalart.de (Frank Hellmann) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:27:05 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Jim Hogan In-Reply-To: <1308EE1C-EA70-4AE9-A47A-7379E1CF165B@colorist.org> References: <8CC2E24BD0939F3-5F4-B59@angweb-usd008.sysops.aol.com> <1308EE1C-EA70-4AE9-A47A-7379E1CF165B@colorist.org> Message-ID: <4AF818A9.8020703@opticalart.de> Dear All, I had the pleasure to work with Hogi during his time here in Germany and considered him a close friend ever since. I won't forget the fun we had here and all the little stories that happened. I had a chance to visit him in hospital a few weeks ago and beside his health issues and weakness he was as charming as we all knew him to be. Jim 'Hogi' Hogan will be sadly missed. Kind regards, Frank Hellmann... From mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com Mon Nov 9 10:33:04 2009 From: mark.indyfilmout at gmail.com (Mark Randal) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 02:33:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Looking for Editing, Color Grading facilites with FCP and Digital Intermediate facilities. Message-ID: <156cdb200911090233v10995b3ay70c407c4e9649bc3@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Few of our clients are looking for post production facilities who can offer editing services with FCP or other industry standard editing software's. Also looking for Digital Intermediate post production facilities. Most of our clients are independent film makers, located world wide. Very often they ask us to recommend good editing or DI facilities in their country or close by countries. We do filmouts or transfer digital to 35mm film with sound, sub-titles (multiple languages) make release prints and distribute prints for all film festivals world wide. If your are interested to offer editing, color grading services or DI services for our clients, please email me off the list. It will be great help to our clients. Mark mark at indyfilmout.com www.indyfilmout.com From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 9 15:49:57 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:49:57 -0200 Subject: [Tig] color nomenclature tool In-Reply-To: <8564.10.44.0.4.1257418337.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <8564.10.44.0.4.1257418337.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Richard Kirk wrote: > No Cambridge Blue? Bah. That is the default color for an Oxford shirt, so it should be there, have to do a little recoding. > True. We don't know the display or the tone curve or the viewing > conditions. However, things are not necessarily that bad. If the > display > is self-luminous then the user can look at it in reduced lighting if > they > want to be accurate. Dark is the same everywhere, so that ought to > work. Dark is the same everywhere. That seems to be a true statement, but there might need to be a lexical proof was well as a physical one. > We are then looking at the color on a self-luminous screen with other > stuff that gives us the sense of display white. That is not a bad > criterion for viewing conditions. For fresh eyes it is, but as outlined in various papers on monitoring conditions from the standards organizations, the eye eventually needs focus relief: something with a texture several feet behind the plane of the monitor, illuminated to a color reference. > If we increase the monitor > brightness, our sense of color increases (the Hunt effect). If we > increase > the saturation, our sense of brightness can increase (the Stevens > effect). Hunt and Stevens, two more effects to add. (one thinks of the Swinsonian Bent-Elbow Theory, and the Topazio-Robinson Effect, each of them in the TIG archives). > In practical terms, we are probably ranging our sense of color to > fit what > we see, and we will not spot the difference between a video display > and a > video+10% display unless they are put next to each other. I vividly > remember seeing the same video signal going to a Sony BVM and a Barco > DP90P, and the red on the Sony looking red until the Barco turned > on, when > it promptly turned orange. There are so many effects like this, and I think a colorist who has been looking at monitors and projections for years and years knows how to recalibrate. In non-ideal conditions, I've had to exit the room, look at something else (daylight; another monitor) then, consciously making an effort to memorize the color, close my eyes and find my way back to the suite and open the eyes in front of the display. This depends on getting there quickly, which can be tricky. > In this case, the worded description of a color is probably a fair > match > to our internal sense of that color if we do not have any color > stimuli > coming from outside the display. The names that come up from someone's ideas of what they should be seem serendipitous. What hue/saturation would you guess the following colors to be? Cutty Sark William Fedora Finn Loulou ..and there are many more. > Of course, that is an easy thing to say > as we have no way of measuring our internal sense of color. I > suspect the > tool would work well enough. > > But, is it useful? The original tool was developed, based on other work, for those who are color-blind, in helping to find the web-based hex-value for colors that otherwise may not be named. It helps to fill in the blanks where names aren't assigned. The intent in having it available as a tool on the TIG is experimental but might serve to help a colorist or client use a particular term of description, or return to an exact value (for only the display used in the Color Picker). Anyway, it was fun to port it to the wiki. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Mon Nov 9 16:32:34 2009 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:32:34 +0000 Subject: [Tig] color nomenclature tool In-Reply-To: References: <8564.10.44.0.4.1257418337.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <4AF84422.1030005@filmlight.ltd.uk> Rob Lingelbach wrote: > The names that come up from someone's ideas of what they should be > seem serendipitous. What hue/saturation would you guess the following > colors to be? > > Cutty Sark > William > Fedora > Finn > Loulou These are all pretty random. I would like to have a set of colours that related to something I would know: if I saw the particular color in an image, I might know whether it was right ot how it might be corrected. A reflectance color would have to be referred to a perfect matte white at L*a*b*=100,0,0 and we might want several sets for D65, incandescent, and so on. In fact, we probably want a reflectance spectrum. The sort of things we could use might include... - The Macbeth chart patches - Flesh tones (pink brown, sunburnt, dark) - Food colours (red tomato, yellow pepper, oranges, apple and salad greens) - Artist's pigments. - Flowers (sunflower, fuschia, cornflower) - Transport colours (school bus yellow, bus red, traffic sign colours) - Trademark colours. We might also include self-luminous objects (traffic lights, car indicators, sodium lamps, sky colours) though we could not sensibly mix them with the reflectance colors. What might this be used for? I sometimes have to correct an unknown set of digital camera pictures. I can correct the parts of the image that I recognize. However, I cannot necessarily correct the appearance of tropical foliage or the color of sodium light or a car's indicators from memory. Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 or 0409 224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 9 16:44:57 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:44:57 -0200 Subject: [Tig] The latest test film Message-ID: <3082730E-5361-424F-9103-EE32C471C58A@colorist.org> There had been requests lately for some color test films, and I found this one on the web, obviously done for a series of 1960s sci-fi background plates. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN9qIEhJR8Y *(just what carcass is on that tray? why does the hand move across the dresses as if it were disembodied? what is that man smiling at) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 9 20:36:41 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:36:41 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Jim Hogan Message-ID: <32901C81-42DA-4CF7-8745-1AC161584290@colorist.org> Homage to Jim Hogan have been collected on this page, http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Jim_Hogan which can be edited by any TIG wiki user, and is linked to from the main page. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From hxpro at cinesite.co.uk Tue Nov 10 10:20:10 2009 From: hxpro at cinesite.co.uk (Kevin Wheatley) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:20:10 +0000 Subject: [Tig] color nomenclature tool In-Reply-To: <4AF84422.1030005@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <8564.10.44.0.4.1257418337.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> <4AF84422.1030005@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <4AF93E5A.90700@cinesite.co.uk> Richard Kirk wrote: > We might also include self-luminous objects (traffic lights, car > indicators, sodium lamps, sky colours) though we could not sensibly mix > them with the reflectance colors. The ultimate colour must be 'Cosmic latte' kind of spoils the grey world assumption in some ways... although it is a moving target of course. http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~kgb/cosspec/ Kevin -- | Kevin Wheatley, Cinesite (Europe) Ltd | Nobody thinks this | | Senior Technology | My employer for certain | | And Network Systems Architect | Not even myself | Cinesite (Europe) Ltd. Registered Office: HemelOne, Boundary Way, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP2 7YU Registered in Cardiff No. 2820389 VAT No. 630 5446 60 From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 10 12:42:03 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:42:03 -0200 Subject: [Tig] color nomenclature tool In-Reply-To: <4AF93E5A.90700@cinesite.co.uk> References: <8564.10.44.0.4.1257418337.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> <4AF84422.1030005@filmlight.ltd.uk> <4AF93E5A.90700@cinesite.co.uk> Message-ID: <0EE8912A-2BAB-4416-8BA6-461496FFD8F0@colorist.org> On Nov 10, 2009, at 8:20 AM, Kevin Wheatley wrote: > The ultimate colour must be 'Cosmic latte' kind of spoils the grey > world assumption in some ways... although it is a moving target of > course. > > http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~kgb/cosspec/ An extremely interesting topic and paper that I'd read about a few years ago. However, the author seems not to know English grammar, which is suprising as it comes from Johns Hopkins U. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From mark.r.knights at btinternet.com Tue Nov 10 18:48:52 2009 From: mark.r.knights at btinternet.com (Mark) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:48:52 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Jim Hogan In-Reply-To: <1308EE1C-EA70-4AE9-A47A-7379E1CF165B@colorist.org> Message-ID: Absolutely stunned. Definitely a giant in the industry, he will be sorely missed. His memory will live on, especially over a few pints. My thoughts are with his family. Mark Knights From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 10 22:07:20 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:07:20 -0200 Subject: [Tig] colorist clips and reels Message-ID: <4128FFF0-3D65-4F9E-8409-DCDC8D826CB1@colorist.org> In addition to the lately added Adriano Mestroni material, the TIG wiki main page is featuring, in rotation, Warren Eagles' TVC reel. His reel is also part of http://reels.colorist.org which will shortly undergo a redesign to unify it with the wiki, and allow for rotation of the precedence of the various entries. New colorist material is always welcome on the TIG. The Colorist Directory at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist has grown to 21 entries. Your reel can also be streamed here; photos, twitter feeds; [soon: map entries to include GPS interaction, wearable streamcam data] with the already powerful Semantic Wiki features of the TIG. Manufacturers can enjoy the unique, discreet 5-second click-through dissolving logos and green text blurb with click-through on the main page. A full-page twitter feed for any TIGers who would like to use it is highlighted on the main page and in the navbar, along with the 1640- name Color Picker. The real research area for visitors is at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Useful_reference_links and see the navbar for the Classifieds, the Facilities Table, the user- editable Events Calendar, and other useful items. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From fmushel at earthlink.net Wed Nov 11 19:17:12 2009 From: fmushel at earthlink.net (Fred Mushel) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:17:12 -0500 Subject: [Tig] DTV switchover In-Reply-To: <4128FFF0-3D65-4F9E-8409-DCDC8D826CB1@colorist.org> References: <4128FFF0-3D65-4F9E-8409-DCDC8D826CB1@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1EA2F4DA-019D-4DD4-AE92-0B6A19B2F43C@earthlink.net> I thought all analog TV stations, when switching to DTV would change their broadcast frequency in to the UHF range and the government was going to auction off that spectrum (except for FM radio frequencies). WABC in NYC is transmitting its DTV on VHF channel 7, (or so says my Sony 34" Wega CRT HDTV). I live within 12 miles line of sight to Empire State building, but my new DTV UHF indoor antennas don't pick up ABC because they still are broadcasting on VHF channel 7. Does anyone know why VHF channels are still used for over the air HDTV transmissions even though I recall reading that the DTV changeover would be to all UHF frequencies? Thanks in advance. Fred From adelle at laserpacific.com Wed Nov 11 21:03:26 2009 From: adelle at laserpacific.com (Andy Delle) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:03:26 -0800 Subject: [Tig] DTV switchover Message-ID: Some stations stayed on their VHF assignments. I don't recall all the politics and technical reasons behind it. Is Mark Schubin on the TIG? He is one expert on this subject. Andy Delle Laser Pacific Media Corporation From flyback1 at verizon.net Wed Nov 11 20:46:10 2009 From: flyback1 at verizon.net (Cliff Benham) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:46:10 -0500 Subject: [Tig] DTV switchover In-Reply-To: <1EA2F4DA-019D-4DD4-AE92-0B6A19B2F43C@earthlink.net> References: <4128FFF0-3D65-4F9E-8409-DCDC8D826CB1@colorist.org> <1EA2F4DA-019D-4DD4-AE92-0B6A19B2F43C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4AFB2292.5080401@verizon.net> Fred Mushel wrote: > Does anyone know why VHF channels are still used for over the air HDTV > transmissions even though I recall reading that the DTV changeover would > be to all UHF frequencies? Many O&Os kept their VHF assignment when they switched to digital to maintain their local DMA 'identity' like 7ABC, NYC and 6ABC in Philadelphia. Some had operated on those channels since the dawn of television, just after WWII. Some digital viewers had to install huge outdoor antennas to receive those Lo-V stations. The ten element 'bird perch' above my roof measures 7 X 16 feet! This is for WPVI, 6ABC in Phildelphia, 39 miles distant. Heres an FCC list of all DTV station assignment with both their old and new RF channel assignments. http://www.dtv.gov/stationlist.htm Cliff From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 11 22:38:22 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:38:22 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Classifieds update Message-ID: The following ads on the TIG classifieds are up-to-date through contact with the advertiser. see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds for more details. Available: Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor, Consultant, Manager. Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer Adam Halasz colourist Luciano Martins, Jr. Colorist/Assistant Colorist Drake Conrad, DI Colorist, Digital Film Supervisor Dave Larson: Telecine/Facility Engineer Telecine Room for Sale (Portugal) FULL SUITE (including Telecine & Da Vinci 2k Plus) For Immediate Sale (SE US) Autodesk Flame v2009, Complete System For Sale 1-Year Old Aaton Keylink for Sale Spirit Datacine for sale. Recently taken out of service in excellent condition. Wanted: Wanted, Engineer, New York City Wanted, Ursa 1 Manual Northlight One Scanner 16mm gate for Arriscan needed -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 11 23:29:56 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:29:56 -0200 Subject: [Tig] SMPTE-NY Section Meeting Message-ID: <810604FA-3598-4428-B5F9-337FD07C6A6C@colorist.org> Jim Mann has announced the November 2009 SMPTE-NY Section Meeting, "TOUR OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL NETWORK” in a special TIG Calendar entry at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main/Public/11-18-2009_-Event_1 if the above wraps badly in your email client, use http://tinyurl.com/smpte-ny-nov He used maps coding and street-view features to excellent effect. The TIG user-editable Calendar is available for your use at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From chili.styles at gmail.com Thu Nov 12 01:00:50 2009 From: chili.styles at gmail.com (Bojan Mastilovic) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:00:50 +0100 Subject: [Tig] cc or restoration-what goes first Message-ID: <198fc9800911111700l245fd914t92a05512d0950037@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have a question: when doing restoration of an old movie, what do you do first - cc or movie restoration. Logically thinking, we should do all the restoration work first (remove dust and scratches, and other anomalies on film), and then proceed with color grading. We do it looking at some general Kodak LUT. But when we go to actual color grading of restored movie, usually new dust and scratches appear, on the dark parts of the picture, and highlights respectively. I do not mean new as new, but one that we did not see before. So we usually do one more restoration pass after the coloring. What are your thoughts about this? kind regards, -- Bojan Mastilovic Producer Restart Production www.restart.si From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Nov 12 02:34:44 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:34:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] cc or restoration-what goes first In-Reply-To: <198fc9800911111700l245fd914t92a05512d0950037@mail.gmail.com> References: <198fc9800911111700l245fd914t92a05512d0950037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, Bojan Mastilovic wrote: > But when we go to actual color grading of restored movie, usually > new dust and scratches appear, on the dark parts of the picture, and > highlights respectively. I do not mean new as new, but one that we > did not see before. So we usually do one more restoration pass after > the coloring. > > What are your thoughts about this? It seems similar to the issue of adjusting the 'brightness' and 'contrast' on your TV set. Once you adjust one, you usually need to adjust the other. Fixing major glitches prior to color grading makes sense since those glitches (brighter or darker than rest of image) will throw other things off. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Nov 12 04:41:22 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:41:22 -0500 Subject: [Tig] OT-DTV switchover In-Reply-To: <4AFB2292.5080401@verizon.net> References: <4128FFF0-3D65-4F9E-8409-DCDC8D826CB1@colorist.org> <1EA2F4DA-019D-4DD4-AE92-0B6A19B2F43C@earthlink.net> <4AFB2292.5080401@verizon.net> Message-ID: Stations had the option to make their assigned analog VHF channel their post-transition DTV channel, and economics factored into the decision for many stations. They thought that since analog signals on VHF—particularly low-band VHF (2-6)—can cover a geographic area on less radiated power than UHF needs to cover the same area, they'd save money on transmitter facilities and electricity by jumping back to VHF at the transition. Things didn't work that way, and now a number of Digital VHF licensees are petitioning for more power on the VHF channel assignments, for a return to their pre-transition temporary UHF channel as the permanent assignment, or for a new slot in the UHF band if the transition channel's not available, now. Since the DTV scheme includes a channel mapping protocol, what slice of spectrum the station actually uses doesn't really matter, since the system makes it appear as though the channels are on their original analog assignments... so KCRA (DT) Sacramento, which is actually on UHF 35, appears on your channel indicator as "3." Watching post-transition call letter applications has been interesting. A number of stations have applied for call-letter changes, since the transition took place. Some want their analog calls (-TV) to be assigned to their digital signals, which used to all have -DT. Others, which may not have needed a -TV suffix—due to the television station being the only instance of the calls—have applied for a -DT suffix. Ted On Nov 11, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Cliff Benham wrote: Fred Mushel wrote: >> Does anyone know why VHF channels are still used for over the air >> HDTV transmissions even though I recall reading that the DTV >> changeover would be to all UHF frequencies? > > Many O&Os kept their VHF assignment when they switched to digital > to maintain their local DMA 'identity' like 7ABC, NYC and 6ABC in > Philadelphia. Some had operated on those channels since the dawn of > television, just after WWII. > > Some digital viewers had to install huge outdoor antennas to > receive those Lo-V stations. The ten element 'bird perch' above my > roof measures 7 X 16 feet! This is for WPVI, 6ABC in Phildelphia, > 39 miles distant. > > Heres an FCC list of all DTV station assignment with both their old > and new RF channel assignments. > > http://www.dtv.gov/stationlist.htm > > Cliff > > Ted Langdell flashscan8.us 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us See you at AMIA 2009 in St. Louis flashscan8.us From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Thu Nov 12 17:54:27 2009 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:54:27 -0800 Subject: [Tig] cc or restoration-what goes first In-Reply-To: <198fc9800911111700l245fd914t92a05512d0950037@mail.gmail.com> References: <198fc9800911111700l245fd914t92a05512d0950037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA662A3@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> > when doing restoration of an old movie, what do you do first > - cc or movie restoration. > We do it looking at some general Kodak LUT. > But when we go to actual color grading of restored movie, > usually new dust and scratches appear, on the dark parts of > the picture, and highlights respectively. It may be better to do the fixes on un-LUTed material. The typical "Kodak LUT" clips code values and compresses the lower code values to make the full log range fit into and look correctly on an 8 bit monitor. If you do your fixes while looking at the full range of code values you will find things that are hidden by the LUT. This is especially true in the dark areas which are more spread out in the log version and the highlights which are clipped by the "Kodak LUT". Bob Micheletti, Engineer, Universal Pictures From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 12 18:00:30 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:00:30 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Selectable Output Control (U.S.) Message-ID: The MPAA is asking again for the FCC to allow them to block the analog ports of TVs, which the FCC banned in 2003. The story is at http://tinyurl.com/yjczmtf -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Nov 12 21:41:40 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:41:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] cc or restoration-what goes first In-Reply-To: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA662A3@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> References: <198fc9800911111700l245fd914t92a05512d0950037@mail.gmail.com> <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA662A3@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal) wrote: > > It may be better to do the fixes on un-LUTed material. The typical > "Kodak LUT" clips code values and compresses the lower code values to > make the full log range fit into and look correctly on an 8 bit monitor. If this is the case, then it would be useful to convert the colors into a new colorspace which is optimized to show the defects while also (secretly) preserving the original color quality, even if the image looks awful while fixing the defects. Once the defects are corrected, then the image can be converted back into Cineon Log. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Fri Nov 13 00:26:22 2009 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:26:22 -0800 Subject: [Tig] cc or restoration-what goes first In-Reply-To: References: <198fc9800911111700l245fd914t92a05512d0950037@mail.gmail.com> <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA662A3@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA662A8@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> > If this is the case, then it would be useful to convert the > colors into a new colorspace which is optimized to show the > defects while also (secretly) preserving the original color > quality, even if the image looks awful while fixing the > defects. Once the defects are corrected, then the image can > be converted back into Cineon Log. It's no problem working in log space for dirt and scratch so there is no reason to convert. There sometimes is an advantage to working on individual channels especially on scratches as they seldom penetrate all layers. Bob Micheletti From Peter.White at uea.ac.uk Fri Nov 13 14:39:51 2009 From: Peter.White at uea.ac.uk (White Peter Mr (EAFA)) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:39:51 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Grading monitor choice... Message-ID: <3CF63477FC276D4FACCBCF18ED3A3ACC0FFB6DA21B@UEAEXCHMBX.UEA.AC.UK> Ok, I could do with a little help if anyone has 5 mins to impart wisdom and knowledge. We have a budget coming through with a little money in it for equipment, and as were short on video monitors for our telecines (we're currently building another 2 Marconi SD systems) then maybe we could have a small attempt at standardisation and order a few monitors in one go. All of our telecine is in standard definition, and the monitors are of varying make and quality. One is a Barco, two are Sony PVMs and the last is a 15" JVC. All are 'professional', only about 10-15yrs old... The only CRT monitors I can see about at the moment which could be good here in PAL land is the JVC DT-V1710CG, but I haven't seen one in the metal, and I haven't heard anything about them. If anyone has an opinion before I ask for a test drive, that would be grand. The maximum spend per monitor should be on the lower side of £2000. It's asking a lot, but I don't think it's totally unrealistic... Any ideas? Cheers, Pete Peter White Head of Technical Development East Anglian Film Archive From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 13 21:03:59 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:03:59 -0200 Subject: [Tig] from Paul Chapman SMPTE Chair Hollywood Message-ID: <2F43FD0B-193B-4C67-8E67-DE8519815295@colorist.org> From: Paul Chapman Date: November 13, 2009 6:57:58 PM GMT-02:00 To: "tig-bounces at colorist.org" Subject: FW: SMPTE Hollywood Section meeting On Tuesday November 17th we are holding a meeting to discuss the workflow behind the ASC/PGA Digital Camera Assessment series. The meeting is at 7:30pm, pre show reception at 6:30pm. Location is the Linwood Dunn Theater, 1313 N. Vine St, Hollywood, CA. Free parking in the lot at the rear of the building. map and street view here: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main/ Full meeting notice and information is at www.hsmpte.org Paul Chapman Chair, Hollywood Section. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From sksprocket at gmail.com Sat Nov 14 16:56:25 2009 From: sksprocket at gmail.com (Sinisa Kukic) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:56:25 -0800 Subject: [Tig] projection screen Message-ID: <4852587a0911140856t2605f44hd5755d7099dc49a@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone. I'm at the point in my humble studio to add a projection system. I've been researching for while now but can't seem find enough information on projection screens. Does anyone have any relevant links or literature? Reviews, tests, or data that is focused on post production... Also it would be great to hear what other facilities are using, projection screen wise. Currently I'm working with a HD CRT but most of my clients are filmmakers finishing their films for the festival circuit. Many are asking for a projection set up. Thanks for your help. Sinisa Kukic From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Sat Nov 14 18:34:01 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:34:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] projection screen In-Reply-To: <4852587a0911140856t2605f44hd5755d7099dc49a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4852587a0911140856t2605f44hd5755d7099dc49a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Nov 2009, Sinisa Kukic wrote: > I'm at the point in my humble studio to add a projection system. I've been > researching for while now but can't seem find enough information on > projection screens. Does anyone have any relevant links or literature? > Reviews, tests, or data that is focused on post production... Also it would > be great to hear what other facilities are using, projection screen wise. While the magazine "Widescreen Review" is not targeted to the postproduction market, two recent issues did include detailed review and analysis of high-end screens from various respected vendors. Older issues also studied various screen materials and how they behave. Bob (longtime Widescreen Review subscriber) -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From sksprocket at gmail.com Sun Nov 15 00:30:36 2009 From: sksprocket at gmail.com (Sinisa Kukic) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:30:36 -0800 Subject: [Tig] projection screen In-Reply-To: References: <4852587a0911140856t2605f44hd5755d7099dc49a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4852587a0911141630i6dbdd1c8wae438beddbcaab76@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Bob, If anyone is interested I also found some reviews at the following link. http://www.projectorreviews.com/projectorscreens/index.php Best, Sinisa On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Bob Friesenhahn < bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote: > While the magazine "Widescreen Review" is not targeted to the From mfw at musictrax.com Sun Nov 15 05:37:17 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:37:17 -0800 Subject: [Tig] projection screen In-Reply-To: <4852587a0911140856t2605f44hd5755d7099dc49a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/14/09 8:56 AM, "Sinisa Kukic" wrote: > I'm at the point in my humble studio to add a projection system. > I've been researching for while now but can't seem find enough information > on projection screens. Does anyone have any relevant links or > literature? >------------------------------------------------------------< The E.J. Stewart Filmscreens are top-notch for front projection. I've used them at three different facilities (Cinesite, Technicolor, and IL+M), and they've always been beyond reproach. A lot depends on projector type and room size (as well as D-Cinema vs. film, 2D vs. 3D), but Stewart has some fairly good guides at their website: http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/ The Studiotek 130's are my pick, and I have two of them in my house. Very good, consistent brightness, and very accurate color. Not cheap, however. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From rob at colorist.org Sun Nov 15 17:15:53 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:15:53 -0200 Subject: [Tig] stamina Message-ID: I recently watched an excerpt of the chess legend Bobby Fischer's appearance, as preserved by YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ0YPXightc on the Dick Cavett show, just before he became World Champion by defeating Boris Spassky. Beyond this glimpse of a genius at the height of his career, who seems much more human than an impression built only on accounts in print would lead one to believe, there is a point in the excerpt about 5 minutes in, where Fischer talks about the concentration and stamina needed when sitting for many hours in extreme concentration. He mentions physical exercise like swimming and tennis as ways he keeps in shape to be able to sit for long periods at the chessboard in tournaments. Color grading sessions with clients in the suite can require long periods of concentration and sitting, and there's an advantage to being in good physical shape, as an ingredient of the stamina required for very long sessions, day after day. Notwithstanding Fischer's later dementia and absurd racial opinions, I was surprised that at the age of 30 or so he appreciated the components of stamina while seated for very long periods, working at peak concentration. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jpo at prestodigital.ca Mon Nov 16 16:58:41 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:58:41 -0700 Subject: [Tig] projection screen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18352651-E407-4901-B68F-01C67EABA6D1@prestodigital.ca> I use a Christie DW-30 with the short-throw zoom lens projecting onto a 16x9 11' diagonal "Screen Goo" screen painted onto a wall with a tacked-on black frame which matches the Heritage decor of the building I'm in. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From steve4lists at veralith.com Mon Nov 16 22:04:33 2009 From: steve4lists at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:04:33 -0600 Subject: [Tig] color suite room set up white paper Message-ID: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com> Can anyone direct me to white papers or other specs on color suite room set-up? Lighting/wall color/monitor specs/etc. Thanks. Steve Hullfish From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 16 22:49:48 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:49:48 -0200 Subject: [Tig] color suite room set up white paper In-Reply-To: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com> References: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com> Message-ID: <6A22905E-5CEA-4B4B-BB73-3DE354C158DA@colorist.org> On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:04 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > Can anyone direct me to white papers or other specs on color suite > room set-up? Lighting/wall color/monitor specs/etc. Hi Steve, you might peruse the TIG archives a bit, using the swish-e search engine on the wiki at http://tig.colorist.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi using such terms as "room setup" or "suite lighting" and you'll most likely find a wealth of material, be sure to select the proper ordering mechanism for the results in the Sort by: box. Also can limit date ranges, could be very useful- for suite specs I would think the date range could be rather wide. for specific gear you might narrow it down to the last 2 years or so. Using "room setup" as my search string, and doing a (default) reverse date sort, I came up with June 2009 comments on Console Design, Plasma Displays, Digital Black, natural light, Tcube FIG, the great monitor debate of 2008 ("what are we going to do (monitors)") .... etc. regards Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From enigma at turingstudio.com Mon Nov 16 23:00:23 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:00:23 -0800 Subject: [Tig] color suite room set up white paper In-Reply-To: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com> References: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com> Message-ID: > Can anyone direct me to white papers or other specs on color suite > room set-up? Lighting/wall color/monitor specs/etc. SMPTE RP166 (you can buy it, $25 or so) For projection RP431 if I remember correctly. Room: * White or grey wall behind reference monitor lit to max 12 cd/m2 (10% of monitor white) with 6500k light - you can buy fixtures for this (ideal-lume etc) or build your own from ultra-sun 6500k aquarium lights with 98CRI) * Gradation of light intensity * Nonuniform surface (I used a fancy curtain, but texture of some kind reduces eye strain) * 8x monitor area * Monitor 2.5-5 screen *heights* from wall * Check for and adjust environment to get lowest possible reflections on grading monitor when off * Monitor 100IRE D65 120 cd/m2 (35 FL) * 0-5deg viewing angle ideal, 15deg max * Walls matte surface max 10% reflectance * Colorist desk max 15% reflectance * Colorist area lit 6500k 30-40lx diffuse * Colorist viewing position 4-6 screen heights * Pref. low static environment (avoid carpet in working area - client area is fine) Clients * Minimum 20 seconds to adjust to new viewing environment when entering room * 10 footcandles/100lux * ideally 6500k lighting * comfy couch * silent fridge * duck hunt and a nintendo :P * etch-a-sketch * empty crackpipe you can point to when they ask for something insane. -------- In reality I lit the colorist area with high CRI 6500k Ushio whitestar halogens and the rest with ushio 3500k "normal" halogens because after 8 hours if I was a client I'd effing kill myself under 6500k. Different if you're working, so it's fine that the colorist is in 6500k, and will probably end up with a few 6500k desk lamps also. I also chose *specifically* to forego a big client plasma because we like clients involved and looking at the same stuff. Cross-calibrating a plasma to an LCD in the same room is a pain and defeats the "cultural" purpose - to have them involved and making decisions. Nice fancy 10bit panel with good processing. I'll be testing the FSI LM-2450W and the 2470W shortly in the new facility. Totally different monitoring requirements if you're doing DI work than if you're doing 709. ;) _a -- alexander black turing: web applications colorflow: digital post 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / direct root at turingstudio.com http://turingstudio.com http://colorflow.it > Thanks. > > Steve Hullfish > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 17 01:23:47 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:23:47 -0200 Subject: [Tig] color suite room set up white paper In-Reply-To: References: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com> Message-ID: <269D6ECE-95CE-4AFF-B015-83D51586C964@colorist.org> On Nov 16, 2009, at 9:00 PM, alex black wrote: > * Nonuniform surface (I used a fancy curtain, but texture of some > kind reduces eye strain) a curtain is somehow puppetesque under the circumstances, so what Mike Orton, Thom Ferman and I did circa 1997 for us in Los Angeles was the best I've ever seen, with: --vertically curved cyc behind the monitor, --80% (under full illumination) off-white, neutral, vertically corduroy texture to the fabric covering this cyc --under normal (adjustable, via cold-cathode fluorescents) conditions, this background became about 18% grey -- monitor height excessive, causing neck strain for colorist; today this suite would instead have monitor flush on desk and not exhibit this problem. be careful, on the specs listed for screen heights for colorist, that they instead be more deferential to a straight-on neck angle. This is the greatest, source of strain among colorists or other post professionals who look at monitors. The silent fridge requirement is important in my view, though I would prefer a vegetable crisping natural light included. I thought the other requirements in Alex Black's list quite funny. It took me a long time to accept it, but in a certain suite, I came gradually to accept over time a JVC plasma monitor for the clients that was on the back wall (a LARGE plasma) after I had calibrated it the best I could to the main color monitor. I found, after time had gone by and I got used to the differences, that this wall-flat monitor actually helped the clients and wasn't far enough off in color space to warrant not having it. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 17 03:21:47 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:21:47 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <269D6ECE-95CE-4AFF-B015-83D51586C964@colorist.org> References: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com> <269D6ECE-95CE-4AFF-B015-83D51586C964@colorist.org> Message-ID: <0CC89BE4-1203-476D-9B9C-4D68D5612DBE@cinelab.com> Saw this on the archivists list: http://www.shakefire.com/interviews/movie/frederic-lumiere-wwii-in-hd I added: So some F**King incompetent Idiot named Frederic Lumiere destroyed a bunch of perfectly good historic 35mm color footage by "transfering" it with a crappy projector and filming it off the wall with a red. I don't know if this act was just pure hubris or absolute incompetence. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From steve at veralith.com Tue Nov 17 03:02:45 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:02:45 -0600 Subject: [Tig] color suite room set up white paper Message-ID: I did a video for a company that built custom (or pre-built factory) desks with the monitors UNDER the desk surface. Obviously this wouldn't work for a colorist, but the science behind the positioning was that by lowering the monitor position you ease eyestrain because your lids cover more of your eyes, keeping them moister. They also showed that there is a difference in the way your eyes focus at close distances when you are looking down compared to when you are looking up. They showed that it's easier to focus on a close object when you are looking low instead of up. Obviously there's also the neck strain issues. I've been in many color suites and a lot of the walls are covered in some kind of cloth instead of simple paint. Corduroy is an interesting twist. Steve Hullfish From simonastbury at hotmail.com Tue Nov 17 09:53:39 2009 From: simonastbury at hotmail.com (simon astbury) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:53:39 +0000 Subject: [Tig] color suite room set up white paper In-Reply-To: References: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com>, Message-ID: > In reality I lit the colorist area with high CRI 6500k Ushio whitestar > halogens and the rest with ushio 3500k "normal" halogens because after > 8 hours if I was a client I'd effing kill myself under 6500k. > Different if you're working, so it's fine that the colorist is in > 6500k, and will probably end up with a few 6500k desk lamps also. > > I also chose *specifically* to forego a big client plasma because we > like clients involved and looking at the same stuff. Cross-calibrating > a plasma to an LCD in the same room is a pain and defeats the > "cultural" purpose - to have them involved and making decisions. > > Nice fancy 10bit panel with good processing. I'll be testing the FSI > LM-2450W and the 2470W shortly in the new facility. Totally different > monitoring requirements if you're doing DI work than if you're doing > 709. I would second that post, I have just been involved on setting up a new room. Instead of a curtain I have a concave back panel with 6500k flouros in the pelmet. I can recommend the Cinetal 10bit panel, when set up correctly it is a really good piece of kit. Simon _________________________________________________________________ Got more than one Hotmail account? Save time by linking them together http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/ From liao.zd at gmail.com Tue Nov 17 14:55:30 2009 From: liao.zd at gmail.com (Liao Zhuodi) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:55:30 +0800 Subject: [Tig] Underexpoure noise Message-ID: If the light is not enough when shooting, at the end, when they come to color grading, colorist have to push up a lot to make it looks brighter, but the noise goes up as well. How can we avoid this kind of noise? Liao Beijing China From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 17 13:43:32 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:43:32 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:54 AM, Graham Collett wrote: > And you get the opportunity to comment at the bottom !!! Oh and believe that I did but no comments seem to have shown up yet... Here is video of them "telecine-ing" by filming off a wall with a projector and a red in parallax error... http://www.history.com/content/wwii-in-hd/videos/preserving-history Hacks -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Tue Nov 17 14:06:15 2009 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:06:15 -0000 Subject: [Tig] color suite room set up white paper In-Reply-To: References: <94935B60-8704-4ACB-9B1C-EAC73339EF50@veralith.com>, Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6C086@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of simon astbury >> I would second that post, I have just been involved on setting up a new room. Instead of a curtain I have a concave back panel with 6500k flouros in the pelmet.<< We did something similar, two vertical fluorescents concealed behind pelmets at the side of a curved screen and another horizontally from a concealed lighting bar in the ceiling. Found tubes from a supplier of daylight lighting for people suffering from SAD. Electronically dimmable ballasts to allow the colourist to tune the background to their personal preference. Steve Roberts Senior Post Production Engineer >BBC Studios and Post Production > >020 857 64556 >Room 3501 Television Centre, Wood Lane, London, W12 7RJ > www.bbcstudiosandpostproduction.com BBC Studios and Post Production Ltd, Registered Office Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ, Registered Number 3593793 England http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From avocade at gmail.com Tue Nov 17 17:57:47 2009 From: avocade at gmail.com (Oskar Lissheim-Boethius) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:57:47 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A Message-ID: Just bought my first plasma, the above mentioned Kuro. Sad to say, Pioneer got totally out of plasmas and TVs of any kind this spring, but what a bang they went out with! I dare say, from a quick look after unpacking (before heading out to some intl travels), that this is the finest TV ever produced. The colors are simply breathtaking, and the blacks are black. But, I of course want the thoughts of the esteemed eyes in this forum. Anyone has any experience with the Kuro? And is there anything out there right now that matches this complete package (I'm including size, so as to not allow broadcast monitors :))? Regards, -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Oskar Lissheim-Boethius iPhone Developer, UI/Interaction Designer, Ruby on Rails Developer & Composer OLB Productions, Gothenburg Sweden work: www.OLBproductions.com From DCorbitt77 at comcast.net Tue Nov 17 15:59:29 2009 From: DCorbitt77 at comcast.net (Dave Corbitt) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:59:29 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: OMG!!!!! I wrote them and told them what they have done is criminal. How could they not know about modern telecines and film scanners? Dave Corbitt On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:54 AM, Graham Collett wrote: > >> And you get the opportunity to comment at the bottom !!! > > Oh and believe that I did but no comments seem to have shown up yet... > > Here is video of them "telecine-ing" by filming off a wall with a > projector and a red in parallax error... > > http://www.history.com/content/wwii-in-hd/videos/preserving-history > > Hacks > > -Rob- > > Robert Houllahan > > Dave Corbitt Summit, NJ From gshaw8 at shaw.ca Tue Nov 17 16:13:33 2009 From: gshaw8 at shaw.ca (GARY SHAW) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:13:33 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: I read this as well, given how many scanners  sitting around the world under utilized, you might think that someone might have enough brain function to avoid this kind of catastrophe. From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Nov 17 16:23:51 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:23:51 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: A pretty much perfect example of how "a little bit of knowledge" is a dangerous thing. "Everything on the film is perfectly preserved forever on 4K" ?????? The mind reels. This is a crime against humanity. I expect they shot in 29.97... or they shot in 23.98 while projecting at 18 fps, since most of it is 8mm? Pretty obvious they are totally oblivious to the harm they are doing (the old folded cloth film cleaner method????) never mind the pull- down frame blending. Who funded this? On 17-Nov-09, at 6:43 AM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > Here is video of them "telecine-ing" by filming off a wall with a > projector and a red in parallax error... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com Tue Nov 17 15:54:31 2009 From: peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com (peter stansfield) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:54:31 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: As a general grumble, I'm fed up with getting emails with links in that I can't access due to geographical restrictions (generally not being in the USA...) I can't blame Robert here - how's he supposed to know that I won't be able to see it in the good old UK? Regards Peter Stansfield Wavecrest Systems Ltd From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 17 16:04:55 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:04:55 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: > I can't blame Robert here - how's he supposed to know that I won't be able to see it in the good old UK? I did not know that, sorry ... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From xthrob at gmail.com Tue Nov 17 16:13:09 2009 From: xthrob at gmail.com (throb - Robert Nederhorst) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:13:09 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <7b08c40a0911170813i5ea49d4vf6df12cb0c15a406@mail.gmail.com> pardon some ignorance here but could they not just do a proper scan of the film? it seems to be if the producers of this project came to a place like Lowry and asked them to scan and clean the film they would be cut some kind of a deal because it's all historical footage. People would help to preserve those moments that were thought to be lost. rob throb | vfx | http://throb.net On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:43 AM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > Here is video of them "telecine-ing" by filming off a wall with a projector and a red in parallax error... > > http://www.history.com/content/wwii-in-hd/videos/preserving-history From abrosenfeld at gmail.com Tue Nov 17 18:12:34 2009 From: abrosenfeld at gmail.com (Alan Rosenfeld) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:12:34 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53bac0a60911171012x6f975088kb3090f03e8aeb6f@mail.gmail.com> The Panasonic PF11's and just released 12's plasmas have become the defacto replacement. Alan Rosenfeld The Studio at B&H On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Oskar Lissheim-Boethius wrote: > > And is there anything out > there right now that matches this complete package (I'm including > size, so as to not allow broadcast monitors :))? > > From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 17 18:18:00 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:18:00 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <5B984CAF-C560-4635-89ED-56884FB9DF8A@cinelab.com> > Who funded this? Evidently the Crap History channel did... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 17 18:19:35 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:19:35 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <2EC6C35B-3C48-4969-9D9F-33D96382878E@colorist.org> On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: >> I can't blame Robert here - how's he supposed to know that I won't >> be able to see it in the good old UK? > > I did not know that, sorry ... nor in Brasil is it possible for me to watch it. But there are ways around this GeoIP silliness (which is something that was quite unforeseen by those involved in the earlier days of the net). -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Nov 17 18:30:55 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:30:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Underexpoure noise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Liao Zhuodi wrote: > > If the light is not enough when shooting, at the end, when they come to > color grading, colorist have to push up a lot to make it looks brighter, but > the noise goes up as well. How can we avoid this kind of noise? The noise is there regardless. About all you can do is to apply a noise filter. The filter needs to be tuned to deal with the kind of noise you have. Noise from film is grain and needs to be treated differently than noise from a digital camera. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From jeff.booth at ntlworld.com Tue Nov 17 19:03:37 2009 From: jeff.booth at ntlworld.com (Jeff Booth) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:03:37 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: Err beg to differ, I am in the UK and I read it. What a complete f*ckw*t (Frederic Lumiere, not you!) Presumably someone paid him lots of $$$ to do it that way. I can't think who! J From ken at flight4.org Tue Nov 17 19:16:58 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:16:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <465743.12873.qm@web65714.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> This is worth question Jim Jannard as well I think... He listens in on the CML... Ken Robinson Senior Colourist _______ From terry at finishedit.com Tue Nov 17 18:24:55 2009 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:24:55 -0500 Subject: [Tig] WW2 HDTV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Insane. "FL: Yes! at times, after taking a film out of the canister for the first time 60 years after it was shot, Tom Schinstine (our engineer and projectionist extraordinaire) would tell us that he thought we could only project the film once. So we did and made sure all the settings were correct on the RED! Most of the time, we were able to preserve it as the film basically self destructed by the end of the reel. Sometimes, the film was not recoverable." not recoverable - Just insane. Thank goodness the National Archives apparently made these airheads scan at least some film properly. But attempting to project that other film EVEN ONCE is criminal. Did these guys even look for alternatives like the Kinetta scanner? Or did they just decide they could not afford to do it outside of their own space? What a loss. Sure 3000 hours of footage is a lot. And I am sure that there was not a sufficient budget to do it right. But to say "No corners were cut in accomplishing this colossal feat and mainly it is because Lou and Scott Reda both have a deep passion and respect for the subject matter." just flies in the face of reason. What really gets me is in the videos "Preserving the Film", most of what they show is 8mm. And "cleaning" by manually wiping with a white cloth. And projecting on a consumer projector (undoubtedly tearing the film apart). All the while talking about 4K and the Red "telecine configuration". As if the 8mm even has 4K of image. What Bulls***. "So much incredible footage was never used… " Makes one wonder if the reason was that they could not use it due to irreversible damage, or because whoever owned the footage said (I hope) "You are gonna do WHAT?" Disclaimer- Never had the pleasure of seeing one of those Kinettas... - Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 From ken at flight4.org Tue Nov 17 19:15:15 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:15:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <359577.20057.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> If you use a VPN, such as Hotspot Shield... You can!!! Ken Robinson Senior Colourist ________________________________ From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 17 19:49:22 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:49:22 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Jeff Booth wrote: > Err beg to differ, I am in the UK and I read it. this happens because Geo targeting (finding your location by virture of your IP address) can't be perfect in its current incarnation, nor was assigning IP addresses ever meant to be completely contained within specific borders, yet has come to be, almost. It depends how fast the various commercial services (GeoIP is one) can keep up with 4 billion possible IP addresses. Geolocation is essentially a marketing tool and goes against the grain of virtual space...* There are various ways to deal with this- a proxy server; X11 from a host in the proper country; 'destreaming' the video on a remote host and then encoding it and sending it to yourself. *does space have grain (it does have particles, so essentially yes) and so, it can be noise-reduced, - another product opportunity! -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 17 19:56:10 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:56:10 -0500 Subject: [Tig] WW2 HDTV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88870590-03AA-4FAF-AF8F-C75C900DDF03@cinelab.com> > Sure 3000 hours of footage is a lot. And I am sure that there was not a sufficient budget to do it right. But to say "No corners were cut in accomplishing this colossal feat and mainly it is because Lou and Scott Reda both have a deep passion and respect for the subject matter." just flies in the face of reason. Yeah I am sure no corners were cut putting money in this hack lumiere's pocket did he legally change his name to lumiere from joe shitburger or is it a nom de plume? hacks suck -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From owen-cml at ywwg.com Tue Nov 17 21:47:52 2009 From: owen-cml at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:47:52 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Pioneer Kuro KRP-500A In-Reply-To: <53bac0a60911171012x6f975088kb3090f03e8aeb6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <53bac0a60911171012x6f975088kb3090f03e8aeb6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1258494472.4760.22.camel@ywwg> defacto replacement, but are they as good? Or, is it worth trying to find a used Kuro around somewhere instead? owen On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 13:12 -0500, Alan Rosenfeld wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Video Engineering (M. Waldie) supports the TIG > **Participate in the Colorist Directory at > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist > ==== > > The Panasonic PF11's and just released 12's plasmas have become the defacto > replacement. From stuart.fyvie at mac.com Tue Nov 17 21:10:01 2009 From: stuart.fyvie at mac.com (Stuart Fyvie) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:10:01 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: This is yet another reason that I don't like the RED camera that much... Stuart Fyvie Lipsync post London On 17 Nov 2009, at 16:23, Joe Owens wrote: > > ==== > > A pretty much perfect example of how "a little bit of knowledge" is > a dangerous thing. > "Everything on the film is perfectly preserved forever on > 4K" ?????? The mind reels. > > This is a crime against humanity. I expect they shot in 29.97... > or they shot in 23.98 while projecting at 18 fps, since most of it > is 8mm? > Pretty obvious they are totally oblivious to the harm they are > doing (the old folded cloth film cleaner method????) never mind the > pull-down frame blending. > Who funded this? > > On 17-Nov-09, at 6:43 AM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > >> Here is video of them "telecine-ing" by filming off a wall with a >> projector and a red in parallax error... > From rob at colorist.org Tue Nov 17 21:57:34 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:57:34 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: <41CE9CB7-8EB3-42F2-BA4C-BDF89AC2A883@cinelab.com> Message-ID: On Nov 17, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Stuart Fyvie wrote: > This is yet another reason that I don't like the RED camera that > much... On 17 Nov 2009, at 16:23, Joe Owens wrote: > >> >> Pretty obvious they are totally oblivious to the harm they are >> doing (the old folded cloth film cleaner method????) never mind the >> pull-down frame blending. >> Who funded this? Even once we find out who funded it, the salient details are forever known, as the perpetrators were caught RED-handed. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From ramona at spectsoft.com Tue Nov 17 22:03:38 2009 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:03:38 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200911171403.38313.ramona@spectsoft.com> On Tuesday 17 November 2009 1:10:01 pm Stuart Fyvie wrote: > This is yet another reason that I don't like the RED camera that much... I am sure had the RED not been around it would have been done with something else. Sometimes we just account for stupidity....damn what a shame. The kicker is they will make money on this and tons of people will watch it because of the history. I will keep my choice words private :) Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard Oakdale, Ca 95361 209 753-4000 www.spectsoft.com Co-founder of SpectSoft, makers of the Rave product line. From lucas at assimilateinc.com Tue Nov 17 22:32:00 2009 From: lucas at assimilateinc.com (lucas wilson) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:32:00 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <200911171403.38313.ramona@spectsoft.com> References: <200911171403.38313.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <8e6e88530911171432p344954f9rb126bee78f6e7dc7@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps if some just asked Frederic, they would receive some clarification, as we know online articles are always 100% accurate in every way? ; ) I've known Frederic for a few years, and know him as a smart and very competent professional. I privately asked him for some clarification. His response: "Most of the film we digitized was done with a C-REALITY in the US and Cintel in Europe. At times, we would get home movies in 16mm or 8mm and films from the Marines and Navy which we transferred with the RED in a telecine config. The results were stunning." He did *not* project an image and then just film the wall. Geez people. Lucas Wilson ------------------- Director, Business Development ASSIMILATE, inc. LA, CA, USA From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Tue Nov 17 23:05:18 2009 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:05:18 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <8e6e88530911171432p344954f9rb126bee78f6e7dc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <200911171403.38313.ramona@spectsoft.com> <8e6e88530911171432p344954f9rb126bee78f6e7dc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68FA0D2D-BA39-4427-AC1C-C96D35FDAACA@mindspring.com> On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:32 PM, lucas wilson wrote, quoting Mr. Lumiere: > "Most of the film we digitized was done with a C-REALITY in the US and > Cintel in Europe. > > At times, we would get home movies in 16mm or 8mm and films from the > Marines and Navy which we transferred with the RED in a telecine > config. The results were stunning." > > He did *not* project an image and then just film the wall. Geez people. Well, there are artifacts that indicate that the film was projected onto a surface and captured -- fixed dirt spots (roughly upper center of the image) that change in location on shots from different pieces of film. These lead one to the conclusion that the projector and camera may have moved in relation to the dirt spot on the projection surface, whatever it was, indicating an impermanent transfer system that changed in alignment often. It's obvious when a clip was properly transferred in this series, but a large percentage of them were not. I have seen better transfers from Costco. These were abysmal. Horrible dynamic range, really strange colors, dirt and scratches that would have been minimized had the transfers been done properly. If you watch the online "Preservation" video, you see an 8mm projector, a Red camera, and a wall or wall-like surface being used. The results were indeed "stunning." I was stunned... shocked... appalled. Jeff "deals with a lot of archival film these days and knows what it can look like" Kreines From rob at cinelab.com Tue Nov 17 23:09:42 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:09:42 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Idiot destroys priceless WW2 color film In-Reply-To: <8e6e88530911171432p344954f9rb126bee78f6e7dc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <200911171403.38313.ramona@spectsoft.com> <8e6e88530911171432p344954f9rb126bee78f6e7dc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2536DDD6-178E-46BB-96A6-73D6E98CCEB9@cinelab.com> > "Most of the film we digitized was done with a C-REALITY in the US and > Cintel in Europe. Well then what are the two yoyo's with a set of projectors and a red filming off a screen on the productions website? Is that just for make believe? Boy the bullshit is thick on this one.... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From steve4lists at veralith.com Wed Nov 18 01:05:53 2009 From: steve4lists at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:05:53 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Steve Hullfish interviews Mr. Lumiere Message-ID: <5AC22706-07AC-493A-B577-B89A0D7C1CDE@veralith.com> I just interviewed Mr. Lumiere on the telephone for about an hour. The guy is not an idiot. The story about how the film was destroyed as it was projected was taken out of context. It DID happen that on a single reel of someone's 8mm footage, there was some small - but recoverable - damage to the sprockets. The footage of someone shooting stuff off a wall was some 8mm footage. And they DID actually use low-cost home video cameras at the National Archives to shoot the projection screen so that they could know what they needed to come back and have professionally transferred. All of the National Archives footage was transferred professionally on a C-Reality telecine direct to ProResHD 4:2:2 or in some cases uncompressed HD. All of the stuff from Europe was transferred on a Cinetel telecine to HD QTs. Between these two companies, that was the majority of the footage used. So most of the work was done by companies who are essentially "licensed" to do these archival film transfers, not by Mr. Lumiere or his production company. The footage from the Navy and Marines was transferred using what Mr. Lumiere describes as a "telecine where they replaced the old camera" (which he thinks was an Ikegami) with a RED. My guess is that this probably wasn't a real telecine, but a film chain, which is similar. He also described the way the footage was searched for using an elaborate FileMaker database and that one of the benefits of his project is that now, large amounts of the National Archives footage that had never been well cataloged before is now very precisely and accurately cataloged. He also described the goal of the editing of the program, which seems very unique in documentary editing. Basically the thought process was to create the film with a modern view towards creating an experience by editing as if the footage was actually "directed and shot" for the purpose of telling the story instead of "covering narration with b- roll" as so much archival footage is used for in documentary storytelling. I will transcribe the entire interview as quickly as possible and put it up on www.provideocoalition.com. I'll respond again when it is ready. It was a very enlightening interview. It should be up in the morning. Steve Hullfish From steve4lists at veralith.com Wed Nov 18 09:20:10 2009 From: steve4lists at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:20:10 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Steve Hullfish interviews Mr. Lumiere In-Reply-To: <4F018FEC-2FC6-4ADF-9343-ADBEB438415E@mindspring.com> References: <5AC22706-07AC-493A-B577-B89A0D7C1CDE@veralith.com> <318001FE-9419-4D39-9AE3-5C4CE5F23B8E@mindspring.com> <4F018FEC-2FC6-4ADF-9343-ADBEB438415E@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <5096D049-7797-41C4-93B5-6DEDD1BCB5DD@veralith.com> Jeff - I respect you tremendously and I agree about many of your points. I also know that in this discussion I am definitely the one at the disadvantage in terms of expertise and detailed knowledge. I cede to you on all points, other than the fact that just because you have an image of a RED shooting something off a wall does NOT mean that the film was transferred that way for the broadcast itself. You can read my story on PVC about this now. It may have been a test. It may have been for real. It may have been for a publicity shot. Publicists don't know how things SHOULD be done. PVC ARTICLE ABOUT THE TRANSFERS: http://tinyurl.com/y93xgtz He did claim that they projected 8mm footage against a wall and shot it with a RED, which is pretty crazy for a project that has HD in the title. I have great old 8mm home movies that I tried to transfer to the best of my ability but I know I screwed up (The film is still fine.) I wish I could afford a better transfer. Obviously this series for the History Channel SHOULD be able to afford a better transfer than was done in some cases. And my own experience with the value of my family's footage almost led me to create a stock footage company based solely on old family film footage. It's great stuff. Steve Hullfish On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:51 AM, Jeff Kreines wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:42 AM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > >> He did say that he shot the 8mm footage off a wall using a RED. I >> obviously do not think this is wise, but it doesn't mean I'm >> getting "hyped." > > As well as 16mm footage not from archives, it appears. >> >> The truth is very simple. You CAN NOT TRANSFER materials from the >> National Archives like this. They won't let you. It's impossible. > > I know that -- and it's a good rule. Note that I make scanners for > archives including the Library of Congress, so am very familiar with > this world. > > I have a strong sense that Lumiere doesn't really know what he is > doing, from my brief correspondence with him -- he thought a "film > recorder" was something used to transfer film to HD or digital > formats, not the other way around. Fine mistake for someone who > doesn't claim expertise, but it would be a bit like a so-called > editor calling an Avid a Moviola (if it weren't so late I'd come up > with a better analogy). > > These people should know better, or hire someone who does! > > Looking forward to your piece and making snarky comments! ;-) > > Best, > > Jeff > > > > From Ian.Redmond at technicolor.com Wed Nov 18 09:50:07 2009 From: Ian.Redmond at technicolor.com (Redmond Ian) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:50:07 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 156, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91843B8865C05E45A8E6D685D12F3BDE106ED3@lndwsmail01.eu.thmulti.com> BEHOLD - RED 'telecine' ! http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33068&page=2 As one 'REDUSER' puts it, 'iphone or not, that is an instant classic photo. It looks like a history of movie making in one room. Love it!' Hhmmm.. Ian Redmond, Chief Engineer, Technicolor Creative Services, UK. +44(0)207 319 4900 +44(0)207 319 4999 +44(0)79 69 49 69 34 From steve4lists at veralith.com Wed Nov 18 09:26:36 2009 From: steve4lists at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:26:36 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Steve Hullfish interviews Mr. Lumiere In-Reply-To: <20091117192546.0twhtwwjk40g0wsc@webmail.dcvideo.com> References: <5AC22706-07AC-493A-B577-B89A0D7C1CDE@veralith.com> <20091117192546.0twhtwwjk40g0wsc@webmail.dcvideo.com> Message-ID: Here's the link to the story about the film transfers. I doubt it will make many on this list happy. Some of the transfers were done very respectably and respectfully. Others, not so much. The 8mm footage was transferred the way it was described that caused the controversy in the first place. And - you may be interested to know - the entire series was color corrected "in-house" on Apple Color. I asked for a colorist's name, but all I got was "in-house." http://tinyurl.com/y93xgtz Steve Hullfish On Nov 17, 2009, at 9:25 PM, david at dcvideo.com wrote: >> >> I just interviewed Mr. Lumiere on the telephone for about an hour. From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 18 13:29:12 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:29:12 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Escaping the flames (please read) Message-ID: A respected TIG subscriber wrote to me today to convey her dismay at recent name-calling (idiot) on the TIG. Her point was that we should at least have the decency just to state the case and not resort to name-calling. I think she makes a very good point, and I don't know how this discussion has, so far, not descended into a flame war; perhaps it's because there is so much agreement on one side. In any case, please avoid inflammatory language. By repetition in replies as well, it makes the thread look like a lynching instead of a fair assessment. (all that's missing are the white hoods and torches) There's another very important (perhaps more so) point to make: don't post to any mailing list- thereby making very public - any message not originally sent to the list, without obtaining permission from the author to do so. Then state the fact in the posting to the list. Not obtaining permission is a really serious breach of trust: consider the analogue from years ago: posting a letter from your [wife, significant other, attorney] on the bulletin board at the Town Hall, without asking nicely first. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 18 15:05:29 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:05:29 -0200 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (was: WW II footage) Message-ID: On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:32 PM, lucas wilson wrote: > He did *not* project an image and then just film the wall. Geez > people. > > Lucas Wilson > ------------------- > Director, Business Development > ASSIMILATE, inc. > LA, CA, USA Hi Lucas, this is from Steve Hullfish's interview of Frederic Lumiere, at http://tinyurl.com/y93xgtz ---------quoting: PVC: And how did you transfer the 8mm stuff? FL: Through an 8mm projector right onto the wall. And it looked great. A lot of it was in Episode One when we do Pearl Harbor and you see all the home movies. That’s from that. --------unquote Has anyone been able to determine in more detail, the configuration of the equipment referred to in this question and answer: ---------quoting: PVC: Can you describe the RED used in telecine configuration a little better? FL: We had a telecine machine that has been used for many, many years and the RED camera is mounted in place of the original camera. I think we had an Ikegami there before. In a virtual, dark environment the RED shoots the film. Now, all of that film, first looks fantastic, because the RED captures every little detail of the film, probably not as good as a scanner, but this way we were able to capture every little piece of film from the Marines and the Navy. ---------unquote I'm curious if the "telecine machine" was a Vialta (the many many years might not qualify a Vialta) ... but that doesn't quite fit the "been used for many many years" description. As Steve Hullfish pointed out, it could have been a film chain of some kind, which gives pause: these are sprocket-driven devices and have extreme capacity for damaging film. This machine cannot be the C-Reality, nor the "Cinetel telecine" used for the "stuff from Europe." So my rough count puts it as 4 transfer systems that were used: *C-Reality for "National Archives material" *"Cinetel machine" for "stuff from Europe" (?) *Film chain of some kind modified for use with RED (?) *Projection to a wall, shot with RED (this is the system which has been the main subject of the discussion on the TIG). -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From preservation at tedlangdell.com Wed Nov 18 15:03:05 2009 From: preservation at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:03:05 -0500 Subject: [Tig] [AMIA-L] Scary interview re WWII in HD and destroying archival film In-Reply-To: <20091118061922.92vm5dufgys8g0g0@webmail.dcvideo.com> References: <8994A8C1-006B-48BE-8451-D09A8E6CA1F6@mindspring.com> <254FBC21-28D6-4D38-8F37-A0073B39145D@mindspring.com> <6130c6d417936.4b02b8af@mail.nyu.edu> <20091118061922.92vm5dufgys8g0g0@webmail.dcvideo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Steven and David, On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:19 AM, david at DCVIDEO.COM wrote: > Steve Hullfish has given me the OK to post this from the TIG > (Telecine Internet Group). My apologies if this has already been > done here. > > > From Steve Hullfish: > > I just interviewed Mr. Lumiere on the telephone for about an hour. > Thanks for taking the time to do the the interview and letting David post it to the AMIA list. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us See you at NAB 2010 in Vegas and AMIA 2010 in Philly flashscan8.us From rob at cinelab.com Wed Nov 18 15:13:03 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:13:03 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Escaping the flames (please read) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <378BA630-D8B9-4F16-8903-8049816AAA8F@cinelab.com> > A respected TIG subscriber wrote to me today to convey her dismay at recent name-calling (idiot) on the TIG. Her point was that we should at least have the decency just to state the case and not resort to name-calling. I started that and I apologize but it burned me that some "producer" had apparently been destroying a cache of ww2 vintage film possibly including 16 and 35 in color so I got angry about it. I will endeavor to be more civil in my criticism from now on... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From gold at duplicorp.com Wed Nov 18 16:20:27 2009 From: gold at duplicorp.com (gold at duplicorp.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:20:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (was: WW II footage) Message-ID: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> ---------quoting: FL: We had a telecine machine that has been used for many, many years and the RED camera is mounted in place of the original camera. I think we had an Ikegami there before. ---------unquote It sounds like an RCA film chain. I used a TK-27 for many years. It had a five blade shutter and a slide proyector for titles and certainly we used an Ikegami camera. They were quite good for the time but seemed to amplify scratches. Daniel Goldschlager DRG New Media Caracas, Venezuela -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From Stn3 at aol.com Wed Nov 18 19:56:55 2009 From: Stn3 at aol.com (S. T. Nottingham III) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:56:55 -0800 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) In-Reply-To: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I have been following, with a high degree of interest, the threads regarding the 16mm and 8mm footage from WW II. These postings were on both the TIG and the CML. I have also watched many hours this week on the History Channel of the end result of the project. After reading the complete interview posted on the ProVideo Coalition web site, it would appear that much misinformation was posted here and elsewhere without the benefit of factual information. Some postings did not, in my view, represent what I was seeing while watching the footage in HD on the History Channel. Of course, the footage in question had to be heavily edited since it was reportedly culled from thousands of hours of available archival material. Still, the amount of damage such as scratches and shrinkage was fairly average for film of the age and source. It was reported by some that the film in question was transferred by projecting the image onto a wall, and captured by a live video camera. From what I have learned, only a small amount of 8mm film (home movies from Hawaii) was captured this way. The rest was captured using professional methods in film houses approved for handling archival material. More distressing was the report that large quantities of film (thousands of hours by some reports) was damaged in handling. Fortunately, this does not seem to be the case. My research has determined that the archival footage in question was handled properly by professionals. Over the 35 years I spent working in this industry, I have handled a large amount of archival material - both 16mm and 35mm. Most of that material went through a Rank Flying Spot Scanner, Ursa, or spirit. In archiving Pathe Newsreels, a RCA film chain with a RCA TP-66 projector was used. Since I have spent many thousands of hours on each of the instruments mentioned, I can state professionally that I would not recommend passing archival material through a projector based film chain. If you set aside the obvious video defects such as lag and lack of dynamic range, a projector based system is just too hard on delicate material. Despite the fact that the video camera was swapped out with a newer modern solid state unit, the image still passes through a very primitive beam splitter that badly degrades the image quality. That is not to say that I don't have a problem with the presentation of this important and historical material by the History Channel. The biggest complaint I have is that the material in question was not presented in its original aspect ratio. All this material was shot using the original Academy Aperture which is 1.33. Why the decision was made to air this footage in a 16X9 frame - which further degrades the frame quality, and also cuts off the tops and bottoms of the frame - is beyond me and is inexcusable. How much clearer and sharper the material would have been in its original form. I wonder if the producers of these programs realize that they gained no advantage from the expense of producing in HD. I hope the producers had the common sense to scan this archival footage in full frame mode so at lease the original ratio may be restored some day. I do not have any problem with the quality of the editing. The approach used here to facilitate Documentary Style Editing used is excellent. However, I find that the quality of the color correction is another matter. The correction is very uneven - even considering the age and condition of the material. A much better result could have been achieved in the post production process. I have been informed that most of the post production (editing and color correction) was performed on Apple base system using such tools as Final Cut Pro and Apple Color. Very good results are possible on PC based systems, however color correction is best performed in the traditional environment where the tools exist to handle problem scenes, and the colorist may be chosen based on experience. The chore of smoothing out archival footage from many different sources is amongst the most difficult challenges a colorist may experience - the process of which is very slow and tedious. The transition to digital formats and HD presentation was supposed to eliminate the need to pan and scan and instead present film based programs in the original format determined by the film makers. Sadly this does not seem to be the case. Sadly, The History Channel, TBS, USA, TNT and HBO all seem to be determined to cram the image into a full 16X9 format. Scope films are still being panned and scanned, but the worst offence is the stretching of SD programs and commercials to fit 16X9 - making the actors fat, and generally distorting the image. It is difficult for caring professionals to watch their hard work distorted this way through the insensitive decisions made by others down the pipeline. Tom Nottingham Retired Colorist From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 18 20:54:00 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:54:00 -0200 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) In-Reply-To: References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <9585BD05-3260-466C-AAD4-C61BF3581074@colorist.org> Hi Tom, This has been a kind of misinformation spree that could not have happened had the facts been checked more carefully with the element of time on the side of the researcher or reporter. The internet is in this case all too rapid a means of misinformation. There is a practice of citing sources when research is done, either as footnotes (academic method) or within the story (journalistic method) that can allay the doubts that might still remain, among the readership, that conclusions are drawn without proper resources. My own reading of the interview(s), story, etc., finds that there is a certain lack of clarity and unfamiliarity with the standard technical terms, processes, and systems, such that doubt can be cast on much of the information so presented. Much obliged for your assessment. Rob On Nov 18, 2009, at 5:56 PM, S. T. Nottingham III wrote: > More > distressing was the report that large quantities of film (thousands > of hours > by some reports) was damaged in handling. Fortunately, this does not > seem to > be the case. My research has determined that the archival footage in > question was handled properly by professionals. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From lucas at assimilateinc.com Wed Nov 18 22:24:22 2009 From: lucas at assimilateinc.com (lucas wilson) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:24:22 -0800 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (was: WW II footage) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8e6e88530911181424k4089d327gdd5175214818248c@mail.gmail.com> I had asked him point blank if he shot stuff off a wall, and he said no. Apologies. Lucas On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 7:05 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:32 PM, lucas wilson wrote: > >> He did *not* project an image and then just film the wall. Geez people. >> >> Lucas Wilson >> ------------------- >> Director, Business Development >> ASSIMILATE, inc. >> LA, CA, USA > > > Hi Lucas, this is from Steve Hullfish's interview of Frederic Lumiere, at > http://tinyurl.com/y93xgtz > > ---------quoting: > PVC: And how did you transfer the 8mm stuff? > > FL: Through an 8mm projector right onto the wall. And it looked great. A lot > of it was in Episode One when we do Pearl Harbor and you see all the home > movies. That’s from that. From myron at posthouse.com Wed Nov 18 21:32:32 2009 From: myron at posthouse.com (Myron@posthouse.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:32:32 -0500 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (was: WW II footage) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is not surprising that people would react to the "film the wall" quote. If any of you have been watching the series, that is what it looks like. Many of us do 16mm and 8mm transfers on a regular basis without such poor results. Bad shading, bad focus, bad grading....I am sure that Rob H. was reacting to this as much as anything. How could this happen on such a significant project? It is obvious that corners were cut on this project. People can claim anything they want, but it looks like Costco. We use Apple ProResHD everyday. ProRes doesn't degrade the image at all. These transfers are inferior for a reason, and we simply would like to know why. Myron Lenenski CinePost 2160 Kingston Ct. Ste.N Marietta, GA 30067 678-238-0800 www.posthouse.com 404-784-1771 (cell) From steve at veralith.com Wed Nov 18 22:38:01 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:38:01 -0600 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) In-Reply-To: <9585BD05-3260-466C-AAD4-C61BF3581074@colorist.org> References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> <9585BD05-3260-466C-AAD4-C61BF3581074@colorist.org> Message-ID: <42B0E79D-3EF6-49D2-BF99-BB7B7DC11907@veralith.com> I obviously tried to turn the story around very quickly using just the information in the interview itself. I have since clarified and re- confirmed some elements of the story. I do know the standard technical terms, processes and systems. Mr Lumiere has since clarified some of the statements he made about the processes, systems and companies involved. My original post mentioned that he used the term telecine when I believed that was not what was actually meant. What doubts do you have? Granted, my only access to the "truth" is simply that which was presented by Mr. Lumiere, but this is far superior to something created by a publicist that has even less of an understanding of the processes and techniques and is basically just trying to get eyeballs on a TV show. I assure you that my only motivation for presenting this information was to try to add some kind of intelligent, reasoned thinking behind all the vitriol. When I first heard this debate I knew that most of it HAD to be misinformation and conjecture simply because the National Archives do not allow you to simply transfer footage on your own against a wall or to destroy their precious historical documents. The majority of the story on its face had to be false and it was. My story is based on Lumiere's own statements. Some of the original article had errors because I basically ambushed the guy at his house and started asking questions about companies and processes that he - as the director - did not actually have to be intimately involved with. Choosing post houses and post production procedures are rarely the job of the director. They belong to the producer and post-sup. After he read the article, he emailed me with clarifications. Remember, I interviewed the DIRECTOR. Many directors are not intimately familiar with the technology of their camera gear or post processes. He stands by his choice to show the footage in 16:9. I understand both sides of this argument. Certainly many of the colorists on this list have cropped or changed the aspect ratio (at someone's insistence) to something else. I know the arguments against this, but what the man was creating was essentially ENTERTAINMENT, not an archival historical document. It's creative license. Creativity is subjective. The cameramen on these originals were more documenting events than carefully framing footage for 4:3 projection. A lot of the arguments about changing aspect ratios involve the fact that a director of photography consciously made an artistic choice to frame the subject in a specific way for a dramatic reason. No offense to the brave men who shot these films, but they were given no choice of their aspect ratio and were probably much more concerned with not getting killed and holding the camera steady than they were about the aspect ratio of the footage. Please feel free to revisit the article to see Lumiere's clarifications and new photos. He also sent me full res stills of some of the transfers. Steve Hullfish author, "The Art and Technique of Color Correction" On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Video Engineering (M. Waldie) supports the TIG > *Colorist Directory at > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist > ==== > > Hi Tom, > > This has been a kind of misinformation spree that could not have > happened had > the facts been checked more carefully with the element of time on > the side of the > researcher or reporter. The internet is in this case all too rapid a > means of misinformation. > > There is a practice of citing sources when research is done, either > as footnotes > (academic method) or within the story (journalistic method) that can > allay the > doubts that might still remain, among the readership, that > conclusions are drawn > without proper resources. > > My own reading of the interview(s), story, etc., finds that there is > a certain lack of > clarity and unfamiliarity with the standard technical terms, > processes, and systems, > such that doubt can be cast on much of the information so presented. > > Much obliged for your assessment. > Rob > > On Nov 18, 2009, at 5:56 PM, S. T. Nottingham III wrote: > >> More >> distressing was the report that large quantities of film (thousands >> of hours >> by some reports) was damaged in handling. Fortunately, this does >> not seem to >> be the case. My research has determined that the archival footage in >> question was handled properly by professionals. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder > rob at colorist.org > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 18 23:04:49 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:04:49 -0200 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) In-Reply-To: <0C7DB845-57DA-4F29-8639-8CEA46DB7051@veralith.com> References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> <9585BD05-3260-466C-AAD4-C61BF3581074@colorist.org> <0C7DB845-57DA-4F29-8639-8CEA46DB7051@veralith.com> Message-ID: <225BC476-7C70-4A1F-B5AD-53491A98D479@colorist.org> On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:34 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > I obviously tried to turn the story around very quickly using just > the information in the interview itself. I have since clarified and > re-confirmed some elements of the story. > > I do know the standard technical terms, processes and systems. Mr > Lumiere has since clarified some of the statements he made about the > processes, systems and companies involved. apologies now from my end Steve, that I wasn't clearer in my comments: they were directed at the terms, processes and systems as stated by Mr. Lumiere. You were transcribing the interview as a conversation and sometimes it's best to give the benefit of the doubt when dealing with dialog rather than written comments. Anyway here are a few of the terms, processes and systems statements- my comments are designated with the 'a' or 'b' subscript: 1. "C-Reality Hi-res scanner (CORRECTION - HENNIGER used a Spirit)" 1a. source of correction should be noted; also I believe if we're talking about the post facility, it should be "Henninger." 2. "Cinetel scanner, I believe which does similar things as the C- Reality." 2a. "Cinetel" could be "Cintel;" or does "Cine-tal" have a machine now. 2b. "does similar things as C-Reality" extremely vague and shows a certain unfamiliarity with film, scanning, telecine. 3. Speaking of the "older telecine machine," it is noted as being "a really good one." 3a. vague and extremely oversimplified; additionally, if this really is a film chain using a projector, that's just the kind of device that you might not want to use in an archival situation, though we are spared the details of why that important selection of system was made. 4. "We just kind of have to patch it back together." 4a. perhaps suitable for comments made by someone who's never been involved in any aspect of film post-production, or, suitable for someone who knows the audience is at a very low level of education. One gets the feeling that there might have been a more knowledgeable person to speak about the project, to an audience of film and video post-production professionals. Combine that with the photo of RED shooting the wall projection, and a level of unease is natural among professionals who know film post-production. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From steve at veralith.com Thu Nov 19 00:14:39 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:14:39 -0600 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) In-Reply-To: <225BC476-7C70-4A1F-B5AD-53491A98D479@colorist.org> References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> <9585BD05-3260-466C-AAD4-C61BF3581074@colorist.org> <0C7DB845-57DA-4F29-8639-8CEA46DB7051@veralith.com> <225BC476-7C70-4A1F-B5AD-53491A98D479@colorist.org> Message-ID: <7731F9AB-D009-4ADA-A9CC-A93DC0A8483D@veralith.com> Yes. I completely agree with your concerns. I reached out to the first person I could make contact with. He was also the same person referenced in the interview that caused all the controversy in the first place. I sometimes write for American Cinematographer, and when I write for them I usually have multiple follow-ups, access to multiple levels of personnel at the production company and a deadline that's two months away, instead of four hours. Thanks for the Henninger correction. I had friends that worked there. I should have known better. (Bob Sliga, among others, as a matter of fact, right Bob?) I wasn't really sure whether he said Cintel or Cinetel or Cinetal. I knew Cinetal was an HD LCD monitor. I thought Cintel was the same company that made the C-Reality, that didn't make any sense and I didn't think he'd know for sure, so I didn't ask. Plus, the end result was that his company didn't do the work anyway, just hired out a service, which proved the most important fact to me, which was that he didn't project the footage on the wall or destroy historical documents. I was confused by the "telecine" and RED reference from the beginning because I couldn't see how you could put a RED in a telecine. Then I thought of the old film chain at one of my first places of employment and figured that that must be what he meant. I realize that this does not provide the same quality of transfer as a telecine, no matter how good your receiving camera is. "Patching it back together" certainly would be distressing for the owner of the film to hear. This could have meant that a home-edited film splice was broken, the sprockets shredded or any number of things. None of them good. I agree that this was one of those things that don't look good in his argument that the film was transferred in a quality way. It's also possible that no matter how good of a film archivist you were, you would have damaged the film in trying to transfer it. The use of Color with "in-house" personnel is certainly nothing anyone on this list wants to hear. The footage in the promo looked like it had a heavy hand in color correction. Too much saturation, but judging from a web-compressed promo is not the ideal way to judge what the real production looks like, since I have color corrected promo material differently than the production material myself. The thing to consider here is what could the budget for this project possibly be. 22 editors. Multiple producers. A DP on each coast. A researcher living for months at the National Archives. So now consider transferring 3 THOUSAND hours of footage on top of all of that. You all know what it costs to transfer footage at your facility. Even if you had given this guy a huge volume discount, what would have have charged to transfer 3,000 hours of footage - not including color correction? Some corners were definitely cut. They had to be. We all have to deal with budgets and Lumiere and his colleagues are no exceptions. That is not an excuse. It's just a statement for consideration. I appreciate you cutting me a little slack on the reporting. I did the interview with absolutely no notice and then transcribed it myself and posted it to the web in under four hours with pictures. Usually I take the time to write carefully and with consideration, but on this, I knew I needed to strike while the iron was hot. I can't argue with anyone who doesn't like the way it looks. I haven't seen the broadcast myself and several people here and on the CML that I respect did not have complimentary things to say about it. Thanks, Steve Hullfish On Nov 18, 2009, at 5:04 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Video Engineering (M. Waldie) supports the TIG > *Colorist Directory at > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist > ==== > > > On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:34 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > >> I obviously tried to turn the story around very quickly using just >> the information in the interview itself. I have since clarified and >> re-confirmed some elements of the story. >> >> I do know the standard technical terms, processes and systems. Mr >> Lumiere has since clarified some of the statements he made about >> the processes, systems and companies involved. > > apologies now from my end Steve, that I wasn't clearer in my > comments: they were directed at the terms, processes and systems as > stated by Mr. Lumiere. You were transcribing the interview as a > conversation and sometimes it's best to give the benefit of the > doubt when dealing with dialog rather than written comments. > Anyway here are a few of the > terms, processes and systems statements- my comments are > designatedwith the 'a' or 'b' subscript: > > 1. "C-Reality Hi-res scanner (CORRECTION - HENNIGER used a Spirit)" > 1a. source of correction should be noted; also I believe if > we'retalking about the post facility, it should be "Henninger." > > 2. "Cinetel scanner, I believe which does similar things as the C- > Reality." > 2a. "Cinetel" could be "Cintel;" or does "Cine-tal" have a machine > now. > 2b. "does similar things as C-Reality" extremely vague and shows a > certain unfamiliarity with film, scanning, telecine. > 3. Speaking of the "older telecine machine," it is noted as being "a > really good one." > 3a. vague and extremely oversimplified; additionally, if this > reallyis a film chain using a projector, that's just the kind of > device thatyou might not want to use in an archival situation, > though we are sparedthe details of why that important selection of > system was made. > > 4. "We just kind of have to patch it back together." > 4a. perhaps suitable for comments made by someone who's never been > involved in any aspect of film post-production, or, suitable for > someone > who knows the audience is at a very low level of education. > > One gets the feeling that there might have been a more > knowledgeableperson to speak about the project, to an audience of > film and videopost-production professionals. Combine that with the > photo ofRED shooting the wall projection, and a level of unease is > naturalamong professionals who know film post-production. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Thu Nov 19 00:24:10 2009 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:24:10 -0600 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) In-Reply-To: References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:56 PM, S. T. Nottingham III wrote: > It was reported by some that the film in question was transferred by > projecting the image onto a wall, and captured by a live video camera. From > what I have learned, only a small amount of 8mm film (home movies from > Hawaii) was captured this way. The rest was captured using professional > methods in film houses approved for handling archival material. It appears that all of the 8mm footage was "transferred" this way. > > Over the 35 years I spent working in this industry, I have handled a large > amount of archival material - both 16mm and 35mm. Most of that material went > through a Rank Flying Spot Scanner, Ursa, or spirit. In archiving Pathe > Newsreels, a RCA film chain with a RCA TP-66 projector was used. Since I > have spent many thousands of hours on each of the instruments mentioned, I > can state professionally that I would not recommend passing archival > material through a projector based film chain. If you set aside the obvious > video defects such as lag and lack of dynamic range, a projector based > system is just too hard on delicate material. Despite the fact that the > video camera was swapped out with a newer modern solid state unit, the image > still passes through a very primitive beam splitter that badly degrades the > image quality. Material not from archives that insisted on using approved facilities appears to have been transferred using an RCA TP-66, a multiplexer, and a RED camera There are photos of this setup here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33068&page=2 So there is a lot of contradictory information out there -- to me it seems like there is an effort to spin things that started once there was a negative reaction from the archivist community. But the photos and quotes were already out there, and aren't easily retracted. I agree with you completely about the TP-66 or any projector-based system -- not something one should use with original materials, or irreplaceable materials. To claim these transfers are "preservation" is like claiming a 5th generation audio cassette is a preservation element of a 30 ips 1/2-inch master tape. I agree with most of what Tom says, so won't bother to repost the rest. Jeff "it's not sprocket science (TM)" Kreines From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 19 00:54:55 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:54:55 -0200 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) In-Reply-To: <7731F9AB-D009-4ADA-A9CC-A93DC0A8483D@veralith.com> References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com> <9585BD05-3260-466C-AAD4-C61BF3581074@colorist.org> <0C7DB845-57DA-4F29-8639-8CEA46DB7051@veralith.com> <225BC476-7C70-4A1F-B5AD-53491A98D479@colorist.org> <7731F9AB-D009-4ADA-A9CC-A93DC0A8483D@veralith.com> Message-ID: <8E68A8D0-31A6-41AD-913D-CBFA1BA0EDD6@colorist.org> On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > Yes. I completely agree with your concerns. I reached out to the > first person I could make contact with. I really do feel you did us a great service by getting the info out to the TIG fast like that, in this case, where there was some billowing umbrance. > > Thanks for the Henninger correction. I had friends that worked > there. I should have known better. (Bob Sliga, among others, as a > matter of fact, right Bob?) I shouldn't have corrected what could have been a typo; same with Cinetel. > I realize that this does not provide the same quality of transfer > as a telecine, no matter how good your receiving camera is. However, putting a RED in a Vialta is a possibility. I'm not sure if it would be worth it; the Sony camera could be a match for RED. > Too much saturation, but judging from a web-compressed promo is not > the ideal way to judge what the real production looks like, since I > have color corrected promo material differently than the production > material myself. The banalization of color grading. It's well on its way to being automated for many projects. > The thing to consider here is what could the budget for this project > possibly be. 22 editors. Multiple producers. A DP on each coast. True, but that's a workflow that is proven through countless long-form projects: do one-lights and use the screener tapes, do the cut, and then scan film for the final grade and ideally, it would all be on a SAN ready for a complete single-pass in-continuity session. The 16x9 vs. 4x3 issue is probably at the top of a list of major questions for the archivists. > I appreciate you cutting me a little slack on the reporting. I did > the interview with absolutely no notice and then transcribed it > myself and posted it to the web in under four hours with pictures. > Usually I take the time to write carefully and with consideration, > but on this, I knew I needed to strike while the iron was hot. I think your approach was pretty good, and fair. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From james at oldtvgear.com Thu Nov 19 01:03:12 2009 From: james at oldtvgear.com (James Paterson) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:03:12 +1100 Subject: [Tig] How not to transfer film (WW II footage) References: <380-2200911318162027323@M2W137.mail2web.com><9585BD05-3260-466C-AAD4-C61BF3581074@colorist.org><0C7DB845-57DA-4F29-8639-8CEA46DB7051@veralith.com><225BC476-7C70-4A1F-B5AD-53491A98D479@colorist.org> <7731F9AB-D009-4ADA-A9CC-A93DC0A8483D@veralith.com> Message-ID: I transfer historic and irreplacable material on a TP-66 configured with a domestic HD camera. Whilst i totally understand all the againsts and risks of doing it this way, the problem is all to do with budget! - Basically to put it bluntly, in my case there is none! I get in all sorts of historic news footage and programs, and whilst it scares me to death the risk of damage and the fact i am transfering using a method which is very crude, and not to mention very time consuming. I do dream every night of transfering it all on a high end system to preserve the original quality etc, and rack my brains trying to work out how i can solve the problem and achieve better transfers. The hard fact of the matter is that most of the material that comes my way is usually saved from being thrown to the dump because the original broadcaster or owner either didnt care about what happened to it or couldnt or didnt want to spend ANYTHING toward its preservation. (and many cases dont even know whats on it) So, i figure any copy is better than nothing, I do it all for the love of it and meet all costs myself, which can be hard when your not working and get your electricity bills for all the equipment! I've contacted many service providers or manufacturers etc about the possibility of them helping out in some way with equipment or telecine time for some of the rarer material, but understandably, they are there to make money and without it they arent interested. So what i am saying is that there is actually an awful lot of "historic" and "rare" irreplacable material out there but as much as we'd like to think its all going to be preserved, the bulk of it gets thrown away due to costs involved to do so. Some people like me who are fairly experienced in this and happy to work for nothing to preserve footage just dont have the money or access to high end equipment and this means they have to resort to whatevers available to them. Perhaps when a telecine system is going to be retired places should be looking to donate to people such as myself? Problem is that in australia, i guess these facilitys are fewer and far in between than in the states? James Paterson Australian Television Archive http://austv.hostforweb.com From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Nov 19 12:27:22 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:27:22 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Seeking Sam Alexander, formerly of Cintel, Innovation TK Message-ID: <9F8055FA-A317-4FEE-A9A7-224FF74907A7@tedlangdell.com> Good Morning from Culpeper, VA. A client has a Rank Mark III w/daVinci 8:8:8 and TLC(II, I believe) that they need to get into operation after a purchase and move. Sam Alexander has been recommended as the man who can do it (and may have done it on this machine before.) Would appreciate an e-mail off list from Sam if he's still reading the TIG, or current phone/e-mail info from someone who's had recent contact. Thanks much, and hope you're Friday has Fun and Joy included in large quantities. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us See you at NAB 2010 in Vegas and AMIA 2010 in Philadelphia flashscan8.us From rob at colorist.org Thu Nov 19 13:51:14 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:51:14 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Seeking Sam Alexander, formerly of Cintel, Innovation TK In-Reply-To: <9F8055FA-A317-4FEE-A9A7-224FF74907A7@tedlangdell.com> References: <9F8055FA-A317-4FEE-A9A7-224FF74907A7@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <6B155DCF-5A3E-41BC-AEAE-9FD22B2FBD4B@colorist.org> On Nov 19, 2009, at 10:27 AM, Ted Langdell wrote: > A client has a Rank Mark III w/daVinci 8:8:8 and TLC(II, I believe) > that they need to get into operation after a purchase and move. > > Sam Alexander has been recommended as the man who can do it (and may > have done it on this machine before.) two other possibilities: Graham Collett and Mike Waldie. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From chrisgen at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 19 15:04:03 2009 From: chrisgen at sbcglobal.net (Chris Genereaux) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:04:03 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Seeking Sam Alexander, formerly of Cintel, Innovation TK In-Reply-To: <6B155DCF-5A3E-41BC-AEAE-9FD22B2FBD4B@colorist.org> References: <9F8055FA-A317-4FEE-A9A7-224FF74907A7@tedlangdell.com> <6B155DCF-5A3E-41BC-AEAE-9FD22B2FBD4B@colorist.org> Message-ID: This was the last email I had for Sam sam.alexander at telecine.com On Nov 19, 2009, at 5:51 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Video Engineering (M. Waldie) supports the TIG > *Colorist Directory at > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist > ==== > > > On Nov 19, 2009, at 10:27 AM, Ted Langdell wrote: > >> A client has a Rank Mark III w/daVinci 8:8:8 and TLC(II, I believe) that they need to get into operation after a purchase and move. >> >> Sam Alexander has been recommended as the man who can do it (and may have done it on this machine before.) > > two other possibilities: Graham Collett and Mike Waldie. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From andreas at smalfilm.no Thu Nov 19 20:02:19 2009 From: andreas at smalfilm.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Andreas_Wideroe?=) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:02:19 +0100 Subject: [Tig] For sale: Telecine gates Message-ID: <0478C39224F94B34ADCE0609A705888E@kontoret> For sale: 1 x Original std 16mm telecine gate for Bosch/BTS/Philips FDL-60, 90 and Quadra 1 x Original std 35mm telecine gate for Bosch/BTS/Philips FDL-60, 90 and Quadra The gates are in good condition and are ready for the FDL-60, but can very easy be modified to fit the 90 and Quadra. (Change 9pin D-type connector to a 25pin). I also know someone who has modified them to do other formats. Carl Zeiss lenses on both. Asking 10K Euros for BOTH or 6K Euros if you buy one. Or place a bid! A donation to the TIG will be made if the gates get sold here. Please respond to my email address. Thanks and best regards, Andreas Wideroe --- Norsk Smalfilm AS http://www.smalfilm.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 Fax: (+47) 38 02 33 84 From peter at kaurus.com Fri Nov 20 01:41:30 2009 From: peter at kaurus.com (Peter Sutton) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:41:30 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Seeking Sam Alexander, formerly of Cintel, Innovation TK In-Reply-To: References: <9F8055FA-A317-4FEE-A9A7-224FF74907A7@tedlangdell.com> <6B155DCF-5A3E-41BC-AEAE-9FD22B2FBD4B@colorist.org> Message-ID: <00c001ca6982$95a8c0d0$c0fa4270$@com> Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. Video Engineering (M. Waldie) supports the TIG *Colorist Directory at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist ==== Hi Chris, I used to work with Sam many Cintel and ITK moons ago and although this may be a little dated, you could try SalAlxndr at cs.com Peter Sutton TD Kaurus® Limited Mob: +44 (0) 7779 242 790 Email: peter at kaurus.com Web: www.kaurus.com Skype: petertk1 -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Chris Genereaux Sent: 19 November 2009 15:04 To: Rob Lingelbach Cc: Group Internet Telecine Subject: Re: [Tig] Seeking Sam Alexander, formerly of Cintel, Innovation TK Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. Video Engineering (M. Waldie) supports the TIG *Colorist Directory at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist ==== This was the last email I had for Sam sam.alexander at telecine.com From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Nov 20 04:50:33 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:50:33 -0500 Subject: [Tig] FOUND! Seeking Sam Alexander, formerly of Cintel, Innovation TK In-Reply-To: <00c001ca6982$95a8c0d0$c0fa4270$@com> References: <9F8055FA-A317-4FEE-A9A7-224FF74907A7@tedlangdell.com> <6B155DCF-5A3E-41BC-AEAE-9FD22B2FBD4B@colorist.org> <00c001ca6982$95a8c0d0$c0fa4270$@com> Message-ID: <14B81FCA-E689-4D9E-924E-8B4971FC4614@tedlangdell.com> Howdy from north of Pittsburgh, PA after a quick drive to Raleigh, NC and back, via Culpeper, VA. Thanks for all the contact information from everyone. When I finally got a chance to look at my e-mails several hours ago, I had one from Sam, who is the CTO/Founding Partner at Film+Data Technologies in Santa Clarita. http://www.filmdatatech.com/team.php?id_member=2 Shows how well the TIG works. Which is quite well and da-- quick! I'll pass on the information—and suggestions regarding Graham and Mike and Myron's interest—to the client and let him take it from there. Again, thanks, and hope you're all having a fine Friday Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us See you on the road with the flashtransfer/flashscanHD tour, at NAB 2010, AMIA 2010 in Philly. http://www.flashscan8.us From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 20 05:06:50 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:06:50 -0200 Subject: [Tig] FOUND! Seeking Sam Alexander, formerly of Cintel, Innovation TK In-Reply-To: <14B81FCA-E689-4D9E-924E-8B4971FC4614@tedlangdell.com> References: <9F8055FA-A317-4FEE-A9A7-224FF74907A7@tedlangdell.com> <6B155DCF-5A3E-41BC-AEAE-9FD22B2FBD4B@colorist.org> <00c001ca6982$95a8c0d0$c0fa4270$@com> <14B81FCA-E689-4D9E-924E-8B4971FC4614@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: On Nov 20, 2009, at 2:50 AM, Ted Langdell wrote: > > Howdy from north of Pittsburgh, PA after a quick drive to Raleigh, > NC and back, via Culpeper, VA. Ted, do you have GPS in the car? and internet via your celphone or other? we can track you on the TIG wiki quite easily, with this information, and even provide street views, though they'll be from another time, at the same place. let me know if you have the ability to feed your coordinates into any lat/long basket that I can access. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/ founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 20 17:32:00 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:32:00 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Historical Cintel Photos Message-ID: <87AD3C22-8FEE-4F9D-BD29-0823F5A99131@colorist.org> Paul Chapman submitted these photos today: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Cintel_Photos_2 Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From abrosenfeld at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 17:42:27 2009 From: abrosenfeld at gmail.com (Alan Rosenfeld) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:42:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Historical Cintel Photos In-Reply-To: <87AD3C22-8FEE-4F9D-BD29-0823F5A99131@colorist.org> References: <87AD3C22-8FEE-4F9D-BD29-0823F5A99131@colorist.org> Message-ID: <53bac0a60911200942n556044f9u97d1af0be84e12e3@mail.gmail.com> Will you look at Neil Kempt! What show was that picture taken at? Alan Rosenfeld The Studio at B&H From hombresur at gmail.com Fri Nov 20 19:16:12 2009 From: hombresur at gmail.com (Jim Lindelien) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:16:12 -0600 Subject: [Tig] What? Have they changed? Message-ID: <4af3dc920911201116p1e492f96xae8631faa7b177a4@mail.gmail.com> >>>Paul Chapman submitted these photos today: >>> http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Cintel_Photos_2 Seems like yesterday! In fact, the last time I saw Paul and Neil this is how they looked, and I guess I've been assuming all this time it's still how they look. Hello old friends! Regards, Jim Lindelien -- If you wrote to me via my old hotmail address, henceforth please use: hombresur at gmail.com From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 20 19:22:08 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:22:08 -0200 Subject: [Tig] What? Have they changed? In-Reply-To: <4af3dc920911201116p1e492f96xae8631faa7b177a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <4af3dc920911201116p1e492f96xae8631faa7b177a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Nov 20, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Jim Lindelien wrote: > Seems like yesterday! In fact, the last time I saw Paul and Neil > this is > how they looked, and I guess I've been assuming all this time it's > still how > they look. There's another, preceding volume at: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Old_Cintel_Photo%27s And we used to have some that I believe Peter Swinson provided, but they seem to have gone missing a few years ago in a server changeover. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin rob at colorist.org From dcorbitt77 at comcast.net Fri Nov 20 19:29:20 2009 From: dcorbitt77 at comcast.net (dcorbitt77 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:29:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Historical Cintel Photos In-Reply-To: <53bac0a60911200942n556044f9u97d1af0be84e12e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <269338859.6295431258745360801.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> By the way, That's me (Dave Corbitt) in the far right back corner of the picture where Neil is happily viewing the scene. Dave Corbitt Summit, NJ Will you look at Neil Kempt! What show was that picture taken at? Alan Rosenfeld The Studio at B&H From sklein54 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 20 20:15:17 2009 From: sklein54 at earthlink.net (sklein54 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:15:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Tig] What? Have they changed? Message-ID: <14969996.1258748117566.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I am not sure if I'm looking at Neil Kempt or the Bass Player for the Yardbirds -----Original Message----- >From: Rob Lingelbach >Sent: Nov 20, 2009 2:22 PM >To: Telecine Internet Group >Subject: Re: [Tig] What? Have they changed? > >Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. >Video Engineering (M. Waldie) supports the TIG >*Colorist Directory at >http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Category:Colorist >==== > > >On Nov 20, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Jim Lindelien wrote: > >> Seems like yesterday! In fact, the last time I saw Paul and Neil >> this is >> how they looked, and I guess I've been assuming all this time it's >> still how >> they look. > >There's another, preceding volume at: > >http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Old_Cintel_Photo%27s > >And we used to have some that I believe Peter Swinson >provided, but they seem to have gone missing a few years ago >in a server changeover. > >-- >Rob Lingelbach TIG admin >rob at colorist.org > > >_______________________________________________ >http://reels.colorist.org >http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From pchapman at fotokem.com Fri Nov 20 21:40:01 2009 From: pchapman at fotokem.com (Paul Chapman) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:40:01 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Historical Cintel Photos In-Reply-To: <269338859.6295431258745360801.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I updated the photos a couple of hours ago with some "Descriptive Metadata" Paul From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 20 22:00:31 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:00:31 -0200 Subject: [Tig] More photos, Ampex Museum Message-ID: <4147D18F-5C67-4A68-A14A-E338C0F25E9A@colorist.org> Fred Mushel has sent along an extensive photographic record of the Ampex Museum, which he visited in the early 1990s. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Ampex_Museum_v.1 The text on the page is from Fred; he states the photos are Polaroids scanned on a Canon LIDE 100 at 300 dpi. They have a very interesting quality that seems to include halation, striation, an almost Vidicon- like black-bloom reminiscent of Kinescopes. Note that the full resolution of these scans is about 5 MP, which should give some pretty good detail. They appear have been compressed as JPGs to about 1 MB each. Many thanks to Fred for making them available to us. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 20 22:45:35 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:45:35 -0200 Subject: [Tig] More photos, Ampex Museum In-Reply-To: <4147D18F-5C67-4A68-A14A-E338C0F25E9A@colorist.org> References: <4147D18F-5C67-4A68-A14A-E338C0F25E9A@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Nov 20, 2009, at 8:00 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Fred Mushel has sent along an extensive photographic record of the > Ampex Museum, which he visited in the early 1990s. > > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Ampex_Museum_v.1 There's enough detail and nostalgia here for those of us who were around in those days to keep the rocking chairs going for a long time. Notice that Ampex includes a Sony Umatic or two; including the model with the lever-eject (did this one have an RF tuner in it? looks like a channel changer on the lower right) .. predates perhaps by just one iteration the first one I worked with. The radio display, that's enough to keep any vintage enthusiast happy for months. See the Ampex-Nagra VPR-5 (1982). what a piece of art (as they say themselves in the plaque). Modify it for data and you have a perfect companion for what appears to be an early RED camera, in http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/File:Ampex_Museum_0005.jpg at lower right. There's a one-inch helical Sony videocorder from 1964, I think that's about the same model I used in about 1969 to screen some footage from Woodstock, the EV-210. Complete with decaying Dymo label "DO NOT PRESS HERE STRONGLY" over the head stack. A "TYPE A" helical VR-7000, note the flopping tape wind, somewhat like the Type B. Note the mummified ENG cameraman with body-mounted harness, and utilitarian sharop-cornered aluminum box containing camera electronics. No extra thought given to useless style considerations here. And in the photo to the left of the one of the ENG cold-war worker in denim capitalist outfit, I see the controller (note the larger clock-timer face) for either an HS200 or 100 slo-mo disk. That's something I used every day for a couple of years and haven't seen in decades. Just in frame to the right is the corner of an actual disk, with the lucite cover, and no doubt the 100 CFM vacuum- filter combo that tried to keep the disk free of dust shedded by skin of ENG-EFP men in cold-war denim capitalist outfits. I hope this museum's contents or better yet the museum itself, still exists. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 20 22:51:37 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:51:37 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Historical Cintel Photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F7527B5-6258-4584-8CD8-37DEA2D53433@colorist.org> On Nov 20, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Paul Chapman wrote: > I updated the photos a couple of hours ago with some "Descriptive > Metadata" Is that a ROM programmer or debugger with the ribbon cables to your left in the Amigo shot? And what is the item in your left hand that looks vaguely like a ferret with large webbed feet? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 20 23:07:33 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:07:33 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Polaroids of Ampex Museum References: <4442D3A1-9943-4BF8-B142-81209BE920B6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <79E49A80-5EAD-4475-98EB-2652B504FD89@colorist.org> comments from Fred Mushel about Polaroid film. Begin forwarded message: > From: Fred Mushel > Date: November 20, 2009 8:06:12 PM GMT-02:00 > To: Rob Lingelbach > Subject: Re: Tig post from fmushel at earthlink.net requires approval > > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > >> there's something about the Polaroids that is really nice, from a >> colorist's perspective. > > The best Polaroid SX-70 film was manufactured from the time the > first SX-70 went on sale, in I believe, 1973, up till maybe 1977. > Then Polaroid changed the formulation and the picture quality and > the physical pictures themselves started to deteriorate, with the > backside starting to un-peel and the image would fog or crack. > > The very first pictures I took were clearer, sharper and had a 3-D > quality about them. The pictures themselves have physically held up > over time as well. I bought my chrome and brown leather SX-70 in > December 1975. > For sure, by summer 1977, the film formulation and packaging had > changed for the worse. I think, some of the original chemicals used > in the first batch of film was not eco friendly and Polaroid changed > the formula for that reason. > > Fred -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From david at dcvideo.com Fri Nov 20 23:44:52 2009 From: david at dcvideo.com (david at dcvideo.com) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:44:52 -0800 Subject: [Tig] More photos, Ampex Museum In-Reply-To: References: <4147D18F-5C67-4A68-A14A-E338C0F25E9A@colorist.org> Message-ID: <20091120154452.k6fj663tic0cgcww@webmail.dcvideo.com> Rob, I happen to have a fully loaded HS 100 with the controller. I am waiting for the day to fire it up. Type A? We have a 7800, 7900, and several VPR-1's in original A format configuration. Sony EV? We have an EV 320 and two UV 340's. Never had a VPR 5. Do have a VPR-20. The museum is gone into deep storage or has been dismantled as far as I know. David Crosthwait DC Video Archived Media Transfer and Re-mastering Services 177 West Magnolia Blvd. Burbank, CA. 91502 818-563-1073 818-563-1177 (fax) 818-285-9942 (cell) DCFWTX at AOL.COM DAVID at DCVIDEO.COM WWW.DCVIDEO.COM From mfw at musictrax.com Fri Nov 20 23:57:05 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:57:05 -0800 Subject: [Tig] More photos, Ampex Museum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/20/09 2:45 PM, "Rob Lingelbach" wrote: > I hope this museum's contents or better yet the museum > itself, still exists. >------------------------------------------------------------< That was exactly my question. Does anybody know where the contents of the Ampex Museum ever wound up? It's a shame that somebody doesn't preserve this kind of thing, especially in a big city like NY, LA, Chicago, or San Francisco. In the words of Indiana Jones: "This belongs in a museum!" --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From graham.collett at btconnect.com Sat Nov 21 03:24:25 2009 From: graham.collett at btconnect.com (Graham Collett) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:24:25 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Historical Cintel Photos References: <87AD3C22-8FEE-4F9D-BD29-0823F5A99131@colorist.org> Message-ID: <392CAAEA0167B94B82E316188447C948BAB688@HEMV1BUKER.he.local> yes indeed Dave Corbitt with dark hair, me enjoying a healthy lunch, age 7 .... Rita and rip David Fenton :) From g.cooper3 at ntlworld.com Sat Nov 21 10:59:20 2009 From: g.cooper3 at ntlworld.com (Geoff Cooper) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:59:20 -0000 Subject: [Tig] More photos, Ampex Museum References: Message-ID: <004601ca6a99$af74ac00$0401a8c0@raynhams> Hi everybody, from wet 'n' windy UK Great to see those Ampex (and Cintel) photo's. I never made it to Redwood City (but did several times to Ware). In 2003 the AES stated "The collection is now a part of the Silicon Valley Archives at Stanford University" see: http://www.aes.org/aeshc/museums/apx.stanford/ampex_museum_status_report_2003-10-01.html I used to for Ampex in Reading UK.. It was also a "bonded warehouse" for Africa, Europe and Middle East spares. I mainly did VPR1 & 2/2B acceptance tests and field service. The video dept was much smaller than the instrumentation side. They did core memories and data recording for aviation and "Scotland Yard" (MI5?). I can always remember the look on my co-workers faces as unwanted spared were smashed and skipped to save paying import duty. Including brand spanking new 2" head drum assemblies!! Unwanted in the new 1" days. Geoff Cooper ex Molinare London (still looking for work) England > That was exactly my question. Does anybody know where the contents of the > Ampex Museum ever wound up? > > It's a shame that somebody doesn't preserve this kind of thing, especially > in a big city like NY, LA, Chicago, or San Francisco. From rob at colorist.org Sat Nov 21 19:41:08 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:41:08 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Swinson, Chapman, Swinson: the 3-volume Set Message-ID: The full 3-Volume set of Historical Cintel Photos can be yours, if you access the following URLs: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Old_Cintel_Photo%27s http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Cintel_Photos_2 http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Cintel_Photos_3 Hours of remembering, captioning, uploading, downloading, reuploading, thumbnailing, page formatting/coding, and marveling at hair, have gone into these compilations. Note in the photo of the late D. Fenton, J. Dowdell, D. Corbitt and gunslinger, how that long-barrel .44 Magnum provokes Dave's request for privacy, as he reaches for his own piece. Volume 1 source: Peter Swinson Vol. 2: Paul Chapman Vol. 3: Peter Swinson (added today) Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From Stn3 at aol.com Sun Nov 22 16:57:58 2009 From: Stn3 at aol.com (S. T. Nottingham III) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:57:58 -0800 Subject: [Tig] More photos, Ampex Museum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the curators' might appeal to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan if they need a new home for the display. In addition to one of the best car collections in the world, they are a museum of technology, and display various collections of appliances from various eras. The Motion Picture Museum in Hollywood might be another possibility... Tom Nottingham -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Marc Wielage Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 3:57 PM To: Rob Lingelbach; tig at tig.colorist.org. Subject: Re: [Tig] More photos, Ampex Museum That was exactly my question. Does anybody know where the contents of the Ampex Museum ever wound up? It's a shame that somebody doesn't preserve this kind of thing, especially in a big city like NY, LA, Chicago, or San Francisco. In the words of Indiana Jones: "This belongs in a museum!" --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Mon Nov 23 22:36:01 2009 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:36:01 -0600 Subject: [Tig] PTR Roller Availability? In-Reply-To: <4AF3174C.2090103@free.fr> References: <156cdb200911042034q7f668be4re5f2f9053806245b@mail.gmail.com> <4AF3174C.2090103@free.fr> Message-ID: <6E94895D-0513-4DB9-BAD6-9C025B166C89@mindspring.com> Hi, everyone: Kodak has been out of stock on 3" Matte 35mm PTR rollers for a long time. They appear to be in a typical Kodak downward spiral -- all of their efforts seem to be focused on producing cheap ink-jet printer ink, as if that will save the company. Anyway, does anyone have a source, preferably in the US, for 6 of these suckers? I know where to go for 100+, but right now just need six, and don't want those hyper-sticky shiny ones. Thanks. Jeff Kreines From carl at stopp.se Mon Nov 23 23:28:23 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:28:23 +0100 Subject: [Tig] EIZO grading monitor Message-ID: Hi all Just had a demo of Eizo's grding monitor... looks alright compared to others I've seen latly. A nice "cunsumer-function" I haven't seen on a grading monitor is that if fed a 4:3 SD image that has 16/9 letterbox... I can fill the screen by zooming away the letterbox. wow! Anyone has any comment on this monitor? What "bad sides" should I keep an eye out for? Seems to have fairly good viewing angle, matches ok to a BVM Ony downside I've noticed is it has something I usualy call "an RGB flicker" or "rainbow effect". I see it a lot on single chip DLP projectors were the "slow" colorwheel makes you see a rainbow of Red Green Blue if you move your eyes fast from one side to the other. I've seen it on a 42" JVC aswell, don't know what it is or where it come from. /carl Ps I have no relationshp with Eizo or JVC, just trying them out to find something to buy, writing to get reasons "not" to buy it :) Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From rob at cinelab.com Mon Nov 23 23:28:23 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:28:23 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Digi-4 WVD adjustment? Message-ID: <5963D811-62F3-4731-BA02-70DADCEF4B88@cinelab.com> Hi Is there an adjustment for the WVD signal phase on a Digi-4 framestore? -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From graham.collett at btconnect.com Tue Nov 24 01:35:39 2009 From: graham.collett at btconnect.com (Graham Collett) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:35:39 -0000 Subject: [Tig] PTR Roller Availability? References: <156cdb200911042034q7f668be4re5f2f9053806245b@mail.gmail.com><4AF3174C.2090103@free.fr> <6E94895D-0513-4DB9-BAD6-9C025B166C89@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <392CAAEA0167B94B82E316188447C948BAB690@HEMV1BUKER.he.local> Hi Jeff, San Lab make them, and will sell you 6 ... email attached. good luck Graham Collett, euro rep for SLS www.visible-sprockets.co.uk From steve4lists at veralith.com Fri Nov 20 15:31:02 2009 From: steve4lists at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:31:02 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Participate in Survey and Help the TIG Message-ID: <915B534E-ADFE-46B3-A785-BB0866FE7065@veralith.com> I have a client that has asked me to create a short survey of colorists and compile the results. This client is not in the post- production business and will not compete with your businesses or offer competitive products. For each survey completed my client will make a $10 donation to the TIG, up to $300. So here's your chance to support the TIG with nothing more than about 2 to 5 minutes of your time. The survey is 13 questions. It is anonymous and confidential. Please follow the link to the survey. Thank you. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=bX2e6_2fkC7wLl1_2fEH_2fwZKyA_3d_3d if that line wraps badly go to http://tinyurl.com/yjbo2pa From Steve at hullfish.com Tue Nov 24 15:47:58 2009 From: Steve at hullfish.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:47:58 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Clarification Re: Survey. In-Reply-To: <7939C89C-2A84-4B10-9F79-549395D87E1B@colorist.org> References: <299EECB2-BC25-44DC-B99E-0601D9D0CA6B@hullfish.com> <7939C89C-2A84-4B10-9F79-549395D87E1B@colorist.org> Message-ID: Clarification: Fellow colorists - I have been asked by a client - who is not in the post-production business and who will not offer competing services or products to your own - if I could administer a brief survey for them. The survey has 13 questions and should take between 2-5 minutes. The survey can be completely anonymous and will be confidential. The only reason to identify yourself is that $10 will be donated to the TIG in your name for each person who completes the survey (up to $300 - and I will donate another $100 personally, as a thank you to all of you who participate.) Please go to the link below and take a few minutes to help the TIG. If you've always meant to make a donation, here's an easy way to do it. http://tinyurl.com/yjbo2pa Thank you for your valuable time. Steve Hullfish From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Nov 24 16:54:59 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:54:59 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDL import Message-ID: Fielding a question on behalf of a third party: What type of EDLs can Resolve accept (i.e. CMX 3600, GVG 4, etc.)? Any restrictions on file name in terms of characters or length? Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From craig at optimus.com Tue Nov 24 23:53:55 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:53:55 -0600 Subject: [Tig] That internet is a valuable resource, I'll tell ya In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B0C7213.1000909@optimus.com> I was following some discussions on the Color and CML lists, and Fxguide TV came up.....as well as a discussion about Davinci. I work a few doors down from John Montgomery here in Chicago, and while I hung out with him in Amsterdam, I never saw this video from the show - they have lots more stuff, and I find the guys from Fx ( FxGuide, FxPhd, etc ) amazing men, providing an incredible service, and great knowledge base. Spend some time with their stuff if you haven't already. For many of you, this is old news. I just find checking in with them every so often to be incredibly refreshing, usually happens when I'm contemplating "Plumber, or Fast Food manager??" I am not involved with them in any way, just an admirer - I thought many on this list might find this video from Amsetrdam interesting as it covers a number of topics of interest... http://media.fxguide.com/fxguidetv/fxguidetv-ep068.m4v all videos - http://www.fxguide.com/fxguidetv.html Enjoy - and may your knobs be twiddled nicely for Thanksgiving. Craig Leffel Senior Colorist Optimus / Chicago From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 25 19:58:08 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:58:08 -0200 Subject: [Tig] upcoming events, December Message-ID: <9A30FF5E-02CD-44A1-A062-B7356FF62759@colorist.org> Any companies factions with events or parties in December are welcome to post them to the TIG wiki calendar. There's a Soiree from DV on the books for Dec. 9, see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main click on the event for details, and to get a map and street view. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Wed Nov 25 22:57:48 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:57:48 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Current TIG wiki Classifieds Message-ID: for details on the following verified current classified ads, please see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds • Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor, Consultant, Manager. • Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant • Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist • Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer • Adam Halasz colourist • Luciano Martins, Jr. Colorist/Assistant Colorist • Drake Conrad, DI Colorist, Digital Film Supervisor • Dave Larson: Telecine/Facility Engineer • Telecine Room for Sale • FULL SUITE (including Telecine & Da Vinci 2k Plus) For Immediate Sale • For sale GATES • Wanted, Engineer, New York City • Wanted, Ursa 1 Manual • Northlight One Scanner • 16mm gate for Arriscan needed -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Fri Nov 27 18:05:24 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:05:24 -0200 Subject: [Tig] the ITS and other venerable organizations Message-ID: While cleaning out some old files, I found a near-original version of the TIG webpage, circa 1994-1997. One measure of the time those years represent is that there are 3 or 4 links, among the 30 or 40 presented, that still exist. One of those links is The Bluescreen Page. Another, though in a surprising new form, is the ITS page. http://www.colorist.org/telecinehome.html Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin/founder rob at colorist.org From shukkra at yahoo.in Sat Nov 28 09:30:15 2009 From: shukkra at yahoo.in (Mr Shukkra) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:00:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Tig] DVNR 1000 4x4 GOB output board and ANR YU & V boards switch & jumper settings Message-ID: <418509.78919.qm@web95315.mail.in2.yahoo.com>    Hello everyone    Anyone can help me that for setting the dip switches and jumper settings in my DVNR 1000 4x4 ? I have ANR YU & V boards and the serial numbers are 555 for YU & 573 for U.    I have dvwin software and controlling from system. The ANR not performing.    Waiting for good news.   Thanks & regards   Shukkra The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/ From carl at stopp.se Sat Nov 28 15:59:06 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:59:06 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs Message-ID: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Fielding a question on behalf of a third party: --What type of EDLs can Resolve accept (i.e. CMX 3600, GVG 4, etc.)? --Any restrictions on file name in terms of characters or length? -- --Joe Owens ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm running a Resolve RT (3 years old hardware, latest software) and it takes normal CMX3600-EDL without any problems. If you are editing Red on Avid and need to use the Red16-edl-template in EDL-Manager... that works fine aswel. It can take FinalCut EDL's were you have the full Red-reel in the comment and the reel-info is trunkated, it will use the "From clip name"-info and put that as "reel" Speed/slowmo/reverse/dissolves works fine (if its all on the same videotrack). There is also some AAF-support but I've never tryed it, don't know how it works or what it does. If you have a Pre-Conform that you will grade and a matching EDL, then you can split it up as you would exspect, but after that... you are able to sort the Pre-Conform in C-mode, witch is nice. Who, or what system outputs anything other then a CMX3600? I know Avid and FCP CAN do it... but why? Isn't CMX3600 some sort of standard no? Or is there a system that CAN'T read a CMX3600 and needs somethin other then that? /carl Ps. Don't work for Blackmagic, but I am using their products in my work... Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From jack at surrealroad.com Sat Nov 28 20:12:24 2009 From: jack at surrealroad.com (Jack James) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:12:24 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: CMX3600 is a Sony format, going back to the early 90s, when edits were almost always done tape to tape. There are many, many others. CMX3600, for whatever reason, is used almost exclusively throughout the post-production community, and in a sense it is a standard, but it has been reinterpreted a great deal by the likes of Avid and Apple. As such, while everything will read it correctly to some degree, the more "advanced" options in an EDL (such as effect layers) will often not be correctly interpreted. On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Carl Skaff wrote: > > Who, or what system outputs anything other then a CMX3600? > I know Avid and FCP CAN do it... but why? Isn't CMX3600 some sort of > standard no? Or is there a system that CAN'T read a CMX3600 and needs > somethin other then that? > > > /carl > Ps. Don't work for Blackmagic, but I am using their products in my work... > > > > Carl Skaff > _____________________ > Head of Telecine > Stockholm Postproduction > www.stopp.se > phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 > fax: +46 8 32 77 22 > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 -- Surreal Road Emmunicate Insatiably... www.surrealroad.com Please recycle this email to prevent excess bytes clogging up the internet From colourist at gmail.com Sun Nov 29 22:18:09 2009 From: colourist at gmail.com (Peter Lynch) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:18:09 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A66269D-4B09-4291-8264-C06C32C62C30@hotmail.com> CMX goes back a bit farther then that Jack... Sent from my iPhone From rob at colorist.org Sun Nov 29 22:42:24 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:42:24 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs In-Reply-To: <5A66269D-4B09-4291-8264-C06C32C62C30@hotmail.com> References: <5A66269D-4B09-4291-8264-C06C32C62C30@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Nov 29, 2009, at 8:18 PM, Peter Lynch wrote: > CMX goes back a bit farther then that Jack... > > Sent from my iPhone http://www.smpte-ne.org/articles/eulogy.html Sent from my 1982 DEC VT100 Terminal -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From carl at stopp.se Mon Nov 30 08:23:01 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:23:01 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs In-Reply-To: <5A66269D-4B09-4291-8264-C06C32C62C30@hotmail.com> References: , <5A66269D-4B09-4291-8264-C06C32C62C30@hotmail.com> Message-ID: Whats the ancestor ov CMX? Pen & Paper? /carl ________________________________________ From: Peter Lynch [colourist at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 23:18 To: Jack James Cc: Carl Skaff; tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] Resolve EDLs CMX goes back a bit farther then that Jack... From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 30 13:34:51 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:34:51 -0200 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs In-Reply-To: References: , <5A66269D-4B09-4291-8264-C06C32C62C30@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <280C094F-4024-4576-8E3E-79C6007B3589@colorist.org> On Nov 30, 2009, at 6:23 AM, Carl Skaff wrote: > > Whats the ancestor ov CMX? > Pen & Paper? Editec is one ancestor, mentioned in that eulogy to CMX I posted: http://www.smpte-ne.org/articles/eulogy.html it used cue beeps on the cue track - if a master had time code on the cue track you had to erase it before editing. There was no list, the edit was all in the editor's mind, and to re-edit a cut you had to record a new beep (the beeps triggered the edit) in real time, and use a Frame Adjust control to compensate for your reaction time, to line up the beep with the cut. Dissolves and keys/mattes were somewhat manual, but you could even do traveling mattes by syncing an animation stand with GPI control. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From David.Corbitt at hbo.com Mon Nov 30 19:22:54 2009 From: David.Corbitt at hbo.com (Corbitt, David (HBO)) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:22:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] LUTs for Plasma Monitors Message-ID: With CRTs impossible to get these days, I know many of us are using Plasma Monitors but how do you deal with the larger than standard color gamut of these devices? Are you using external LUT boxes of some kind to pull the color gamut in to Rec 709? If so what do you recommend that works in a dual link HD-SDI environment and does not cost a fortune? Thanks Dave Corbitt HBO Studios Project Engineer 120A E 23 St New York, NY 10010 --------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail is intended only for the use of the addressees. Any copying, forwarding, printing or other use of this e-mail by persons other than the addressees is not authorized. This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by return e-mail (including the original message in your reply) and then delete and discard all copies of the e-mail. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From mwalker at encorehollywood.com Mon Nov 30 19:58:05 2009 From: mwalker at encorehollywood.com (Michael Walker) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:58:05 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A razor blade, a microscope, some iron filings and adhesive tape. -Mike Walker Encore Hollywood > From: Carl Skaff > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:23:01 +0100 > To: Peter Lynch , Jack James > Cc: "tig at colorist.org" > Subject: Re: [Tig] Resolve EDLs > > Whats the ancestor of CMX? > Pen Paper? > > /carl From cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net Mon Nov 30 21:14:39 2009 From: cedric.lejeune at workflowers.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E9dric_Lejeune?=) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:14:39 +0100 Subject: [Tig] LUTs for Plasma Monitors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1facf6310911301314l6d3c7d3cucc670aa8e4983973@mail.gmail.com> Hi Dave, for LUT processing stuff you generally get what you pay for. The DAVIO from Cinetal can do pretty good interpolation and LUT resolution and it can drive the calibration process (generation of the patches). Cedric -- Cédric Lejeune cedric at workflowers.net Tel: +33 970 467 327 Fax: +33 821 463 416 www.workflowers.net From ken at flight4.org Mon Nov 30 20:12:12 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:12:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Resolve EDLs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <254758.92484.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Dont forget the chinagraf marker.... Well, thats what i used on the b&w open reel video recorder circa 1977 Ken Robinson Senior Colourist ________________________________ From: Michael Walker To: "tig at colorist.org" Sent: Mon, 30 November, 2009 16:58:05 Subject: Re: [Tig] Resolve EDLs A razor blade, a microscope, some iron filings and adhesive tape. -Mike Walker Encore Hollywood From rob at colorist.org Mon Nov 30 21:32:59 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:32:59 -0200 Subject: [Tig] EECO Message-ID: This is from Stan Chayka, was sent to the tig-bounces at colorist.org address, I'm resending it to tig at colorist.org . EECO! Electronic Engineering of Calif.. created a "time Code" based electronic editing system. The EECO code was a Amplitude modulated audio tone that numbered the frames of video. I worked with this system on Ampex VR200b's as early as 1970. Stan Chayka From adelle at laserpacific.com Mon Nov 30 22:30:26 2009 From: adelle at laserpacific.com (Andy Delle) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:30:26 -0800 Subject: [Tig] LUTs for Plasma Monitors Message-ID: <640e4b5f-0bd9-43be-bdbe-50b7f8049fcc@laserpacific.com> Well we are using the BlackMagic pro box which costs about $800 retail. They are good enough for edit rooms and even dailies telecine. We still use CRTs in final TV timing but those days are numbered! Some issues: 1) It may seem logical to use the DVI output of the LUT box thus negating the need for the $1400 Plasma HDSDI module. Unfortunately The Panasonic DVI input blanks an extra line. The HDSDI input is WYSIWYG. 2) The LUT boxes have a poor HDSDI input circuit. They don't like being at the end of long cables, like 100 feet. So we typically keep them at the rack which has another benefit, there is usually a computer close by to run the LUT software on. It uses USB so cable length is an issue. Andy Delle Laser Pacific Media Corporation