From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Jul 1 01:38:18 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:38:18 -0700 Subject: [Tig] NASA said to have found "missing" Apollo 11 tapes In-Reply-To: <272285.53748.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <272285.53748.qm@web42104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Googling has turned up some Twitter references from Bob Jacobs – NASA deputy assistant administrator of Public Affairs here: http://twitter.com/bnjacobs His comments to tweeters include: There is a search that is winding down. We hope to release an update publicly in the next few weeks. The UK report is fiction. We told Express that we are not in a position to discuss what has or hasn't been found. We didn't say "yes" or "no" and cannot yet. A current list of NASA-related Apollo 40th anniversary activities http://tr.im/pU5L . The list will be updated as necessary. 1:14 PM Jun 26th from web The NASA website for the 40th Anniversary is here: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/40th/index.html Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Skype: TedLangdell tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From craig at optimus.com Wed Jul 1 17:07:11 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:07:11 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Potato prints In-Reply-To: <4A4A303E.1080206@filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <4A4A303E.1080206@filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <4A4B89AF.8060501@optimus.com> Ahhhhhh Richard !!! I should've known you'd have a clue at what I was talking about - yeah, like this site - http://users.telenet.be/thomasweynants/autochromes.html I forgot they were called Autochromes, and I was trying to remember if it was the Lumière brothers or not..... Thanks for jogging my mind - truly remarkable, this technique, as it was the first reproduction of color that didn't require hand work ( drawing or painting or retouching ) by the Photographer or Artist.... or at least, that's the way I learned it. Enjoy, and thanks Richard - CL Richard Kirk wrote: > You mean this sort of thing? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/george_eastman_house/2677422353/in/set-72157606226772243/ > > (Autochromes can involve a potato) > > Cheers. > Richard Kirk > From adrian at autotv.co.uk Wed Jul 1 21:32:01 2009 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:32:01 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Onelights on Red In-Reply-To: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B4940AF65979@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B4940AF65979@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: On Jun 30, 2009, at 17:54, Jean-Clement Soret wrote: > > > Nightmare of green blacks? Over the top S curve and vignette, sorry > to say but this sounds very nineties, I don't know any colourist > here in London, and we know each others pretty well, who would dare > doing anything like this unless asked by someone with the power of > decision. Everything is so much discussed, controlled, tested, > researched, re-discussed, redone to death that anything a bit > daring has to be for a very good reason. The days we had the > liberty to play with our new toys and throw a last minute idea are > long gone, the job of colourist had gained in maturity and is all > about attention to detail, executing a pre defined idea. You > occasionally hear a director asking for 5 or 6 "looks" before he > can make a decision but that's rare. We most often stick to the way > it was shot and bring subtle details, which added up make a > difference. > As for the BT campaign you mention, interestingly I was working > last week with the director who shot it, he told me the lifted > blacks were inherited from the aesthetic of the previous campaign > which had flares and backlit scenes, the agency creative felt there > should be a continuity. Even though it looks like a colourist had a > bit of a heavy hand this was an agency request. I'm sure you're right, Jean Clement, but don't forget that looks pioneered at the top end of the market trickle down VERY slowly, so your '90's commercial or music promo 'look' is someone else's 2009 corporate... The s-curve, vignette and 'film-effect', in particular, refuse to die. -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION 35 BEDFORDBURY LONDON WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- From rob at colorist.org Thu Jul 2 00:16:32 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:16:32 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Onelights on Red In-Reply-To: References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B4940AF65979@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:32 PM, Adrian Thomas wrote: > I'm sure you're right, Jean Clement, but don't forget that looks > pioneered at the top end of the market trickle down VERY slowly, so > your '90's commercial or music promo 'look' is someone else's 2009 > corporate... > > The s-curve, vignette and 'film-effect', in particular, refuse to die. I've often wanted to offer for client consumption the reverse- vignette, where just the edges and corners are brighter; the W curve; and the 1970s moon-landing 2" quad video look. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Jul 2 01:02:31 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:02:31 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Onelights on Red In-Reply-To: References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B4940AF65979@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: <8E7D9291-7C75-445D-A160-1C6320223337@tedlangdell.com> On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:16 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > and the 1970s moon-landing 2" quad video look. Would that be the "what the world saw" version or the pre-standards conversion "Parks Telescope Slow Scan Monitor" version? Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From clark at garnetdev.com Thu Jul 2 02:51:14 2009 From: clark at garnetdev.com (Clark E. Bierbaum) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:51:14 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Onelights on Red In-Reply-To: References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B4940AF65979@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: <6EA529A3-1904-4E53-ADA3-F5B92D3165BF@garnetdev.com> > I've often wanted to offer for client consumption the reverse- > vignette, where just the edges and corners are > brighter; the W curve; and the 1970s moon-landing 2" quad video look. > > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org Is the vignette a boomer and gen-x thing based on our parents TV's we watched growing up where the brightness and focus fell off in the corners?? Clark (Freud) Bierbaum Contractor / Realtor / Recovering Colorist / Anything for a buck (almost) Charlotte, NC US of A From weagles at mac.com Thu Jul 2 03:47:09 2009 From: weagles at mac.com (warren eagles) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:47:09 +1000 Subject: [Tig] who graded Thriller musvid? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <868690CE-9806-4CC1-A45B-181CE1DAE8C3@mac.com> > One of my first grading jobs at Visions in Soho was working on the MJ "Bad" tour 1988. They shot 35mm for fun on all legs of the tour, Japan, Australia Europe and the US, directed by Patrick Kelly. We worked on the Music Video " Another part of me" which was offline/onlined in a 300 pounds an hour online suite! Jackson only came in once on a Sunday afternoon, his manager Frank Dileo was more hands on. I have just read that the "Bad" concert documentary has never been released....... maybe it will now? Warren Freelance Colorist www.icolorist.com From adrian at autotv.co.uk Thu Jul 2 10:08:55 2009 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:08:55 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Onelights on Red In-Reply-To: <6EA529A3-1904-4E53-ADA3-F5B92D3165BF@garnetdev.com> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B4940AF65979@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <6EA529A3-1904-4E53-ADA3-F5B92D3165BF@garnetdev.com> Message-ID: <55F05AD2-B5C9-4E42-A4B6-189535874B36@autotv.co.uk> On 2 Jul 2009, at 02:51, Clark E. Bierbaum wrote: > > Is the vignette a boomer and gen-x thing based on our parents TV's > we watched growing up where the brightness and focus fell off in > the corners?? > My parents' Panasonic "Quintrix" fishbowl CRT had far superior falloff and corner focus to many viewing devices I've used susequently. I spent years perfecting the levels on that thing... -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION 35 BEDFORDBURY LONDON WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- From Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se Sat Jul 4 12:31:36 2009 From: Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se (Simon Cuff) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 13:31:36 +0200 Subject: [Tig] NASA tapes - the saga continues References: <20090630070311.60bxvxcao0wocgs8@webmail.dcvideo.com> <49F3C026-E184-43C0-92EB-26B90E011DF2@uea.ac.uk> Message-ID: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC110020225D8@dvexch.digitalvision.se> We're currently working on an EU funded project called Video Start that aim's to improve preservation and digital remastering of tape based archives. This will go along side our film restoration technology that will be fairly complete by the end of the year. Certainly our motion estimator which we are continuing to improve helps extract more detail and dynamic range from the digital signal coming out of the VTR. The project however is not looking at the physical side of capturing the signal where I'm sure there could also be many improvements. Simon Cuff Digital Vision From craig at optimus.com Tue Jul 7 15:39:43 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:39:43 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Onelights on Red In-Reply-To: <6EA529A3-1904-4E53-ADA3-F5B92D3165BF@garnetdev.com> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B4940AF65979@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <6EA529A3-1904-4E53-ADA3-F5B92D3165BF@garnetdev.com> Message-ID: <4A535E2F.9070508@optimus.com> This whole thing is funny - I've done the reverse toilet bowls many times... yes, where the corners are brighter. Think vaseline plus a white promist on the edges.....or the electronic equivalent..... it's definitely not popular, and only used under duress... but also, to fix a lens with bad falloff, like a 1970's angenieux .... or the like. Hasn't a client ever commented that it would be "Great to do a spot like that" when you were in any of these modes ? ---- Highlight supervector selection matte check on defocus or alpha check overcrank the fleshtone defocus ( just to walk it in ) I used to unlock the Kilovectors on an 8:8:8 and they would spin 360 around the vector scope until the locked back up... I can't remember why I unlocked them at the moment, it was an effect of switching modes or something... but a client I was working with asked me to do an alt layoff with that effect. When I told him it was relatively random, and I couldn't control it... he said "Well, just get it going and hit the hooks on the scenes we need, wild is fine "..... Yeah, those were the days of doing ALT passes because you could. Ridiculous by today's thoughts. Actually, ridiculous at the time too... Have fun out there, I'm off to another day of bending files around to my will on my Baselight.... when will people figure this shit out?? Regards - Craig Leffel Optimus Clark E. Bierbaum wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2203 subscribers as of June 2009 > Steve Paris supports the TIG. > ==== > > >> I've often wanted to offer for client consumption the >> reverse-vignette, where just the edges and corners are >> brighter; the W curve; and the 1970s moon-landing 2" quad video look. >> >> >> -- >> Rob Lingelbach >> rob at colorist.org > > Is the vignette a boomer and gen-x thing based on our parents TV's we > watched growing up where the brightness and focus fell off in the > corners?? > > Clark (Freud) Bierbaum > > Contractor / Realtor / Recovering Colorist / Anything for a buck (almost) > Charlotte, NC US of A > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Jul 7 22:45:39 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:45:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] GraphicsMagick and ASC CDL Message-ID: GraphicsMagick is adding support for the ASC CDL transform. At the moment there is an -asc-cdl option which takes a string argument parameter of our own design rather than using an XML file to drive it. As of today's development snapshot, GraphicsMagick's ASC CDL is demonstrated to be within +/- one 10-bit count of the ASC CDL SOP reference output, as the ASC requires. Thoughts about how to improve the usability of GraphicsMagick as pertains to ASC CDL (or otherwise) are appreciated. The latest snapshot release may be retrieved from "ftp://ftp.graphicsmagick.org/pub/GraphicsMagick/snapshots/". Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Wed Jul 8 23:23:31 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 19:23:31 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Classifieds update Message-ID: <99139A4C-4A67-4C83-BF88-2D94E27FC7B3@colorist.org> These ads are showing on the TIG Classifieds. Please advise if any are not current, thank you. see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Available-- Young experienced colorist with knowladge of DI workflow, Davinci Resolve and Autodesk Lustre, etc. Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Post Production Consultant, Systems Administrator Colorist with worldwide experience in top markets and various cultures. Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Colorist with DI and HD mastering experience. I am fluent in daVinci 2K PLUS, Digital Vision Film Master... etc. Colourist Available, Worldwide Rising colourist looking for company in need of same. Experienced with daVinci 8:8:8, 2k+, Resolve, Pandora Pogle, Lustre, etc. Adam Halasz colourist Experienced with Baselight grading systems, DI workflow, Davinci 2K, Thomson telecines, Aaton keylink, several video formats, etc. Kevin Shaw: Freelance Colorist, Instructor and Consultant Kevin Shaw is available worldwide for freelance or contract work. I have over 20 years of experience as a global colorist... etc. Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer Over twenty years of experience as a Colorist. Available for colorist assignments and training courses world wide or a full time position... etc. Herbert Butler - Assistant Colourist and Conform Editor I am available worldwide, freelance or contract work with over 8 years experience in post production in DI and video work flows... etc. Jon Mendenhall - Assistant Colourist, Chicago New college graduate looking for more hands-on experience with equipment and creative guidance... etc. Celco Fury Film recorder For sale: 150k obo Shadow for sale Telecine Room for Sale 2 Cintel C-Reality; 2 URSA Diamond; HD Spirit, HDCam VTRs Da Vinci Resolve RT Available for sale Da Vinci DUI System complete + Resolve Control Panels HD Spirit Color Suite Luster 2009 with Incinerator. Loaded Davinci 2K Plus for Sale USA $155,000 USD CINTEL RASCAL & DAVINCI 2k COLOR CORRECTOR TTR 4x1 portable HD-SDI router available for sale. CINE-TAL MONITOR FOR SALE $27,000 OBO Wanted-- QC operators, L.A. Colorist, amazing, for autodesk platform, Toronto Looking for URSA DIAMOND Ampex AVR1, AVR2s needed 16mm gate for Arriscan needed -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From steve at veralith.com Thu Jul 9 01:07:50 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 19:07:50 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Homemade telecine scanner using Lego Mindstorms Message-ID: I supposed this could be considered off-topic, but I think this is really humorous and ingenious. I found in while I was using StumbleUpon, which is kind of the reverse of Google: it takes you to websites you didn't know you wanted to find. http://www.kaimio.fi/blogs/harri/entry/fun_with_mindstorms_old_8mm From rob at colorist.org Thu Jul 9 04:38:40 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 00:38:40 -0300 Subject: [Tig] admin test, please ignore. Message-ID: test please ignore -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Jul 9 04:46:27 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 00:46:27 -0300 Subject: [Tig] test for admin purposes Message-ID: testing please ignore -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Jul 9 05:25:10 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 01:25:10 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Classifieds, Lego Scanner Message-ID: The following two messages may have been lost in transmission, this is a backup posting of the 2 in case some subscribers didn't receive them. [Tig] Classifieds update Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org Wed Jul 8 23:23:31 BST 2009 Previous message: [Tig] GraphicsMagick and ASC CDL Next message: [Tig] Homemade telecine scanner using Lego Mindstorms Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] These ads are showing on the TIG Classifieds. Please advise if any are not current, thank you. see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Available-- Young experienced colorist with knowladge of DI workflow, Davinci Resolve and Autodesk Lustre, etc. Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Post Production Consultant, Systems Administrator Colorist with worldwide experience in top markets and various cultures. Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Colorist with DI and HD mastering experience. I am fluent in daVinci 2K PLUS, Digital Vision Film Master... etc. Colourist Available, Worldwide Rising colourist looking for company in need of same. Experienced with daVinci 8:8:8, 2k+, Resolve, Pandora Pogle, Lustre, etc. Adam Halasz colourist Experienced with Baselight grading systems, DI workflow, Davinci 2K, Thomson telecines, Aaton keylink, several video formats, etc. Kevin Shaw: Freelance Colorist, Instructor and Consultant Kevin Shaw is available worldwide for freelance or contract work. I have over 20 years of experience as a global colorist... etc. Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer Over twenty years of experience as a Colorist. Available for colorist assignments and training courses world wide or a full time position... etc. Herbert Butler - Assistant Colourist and Conform Editor I am available worldwide, freelance or contract work with over 8 years experience in post production in DI and video work flows... etc. Jon Mendenhall - Assistant Colourist, Chicago New college graduate looking for more hands-on experience with equipment and creative guidance... etc. Celco Fury Film recorder For sale: 150k obo Shadow for sale Telecine Room for Sale 2 Cintel C-Reality; 2 URSA Diamond; HD Spirit, HDCam VTRs Da Vinci Resolve RT Available for sale Da Vinci DUI System complete + Resolve Control Panels HD Spirit Color Suite Luster 2009 with Incinerator. Loaded Davinci 2K Plus for Sale USA $155,000 USD CINTEL RASCAL & DAVINCI 2k COLOR CORRECTOR TTR 4x1 portable HD-SDI router available for sale. CINE-TAL MONITOR FOR SALE $27,000 OBO Wanted-- QC operators, L.A. Colorist, amazing, for autodesk platform, Toronto Looking for URSA DIAMOND Ampex AVR1, AVR2s needed 16mm gate for Arriscan needed -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org --------------------- [Tig] Homemade telecine scanner using Lego Mindstorms Steve Hullfish steve at veralith.com Thu Jul 9 01:07:50 BST 2009 Previous message: [Tig] Classifieds update Next message: [Tig] admin test, please ignore. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] I supposed this could be considered off-topic, but I think this is really humorous and ingenious. I found in while I was using StumbleUpon, which is kind of the reverse of Google: it takes you to websites you didn't know you wanted to find. http://www.kaimio.fi/blogs/harri/entry/fun_with_mindstorms_old_8mm -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Fri Jul 10 03:38:11 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:38:11 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Le Silence de la Mer Message-ID: I had the wonderful experience of seeing on Eurochannel the film _Le Silence de la Mer_. extraordinary cinematography, beautiful color and treatment. The credits were cut short by the local Brazilian channel, if anyone knows the post-production information I'd be obliged. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Fri Jul 10 03:41:15 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:41:15 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Le Silence de la Mer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93BAB1A3-DB4A-4FFC-841E-0B83F8C9886E@colorist.org> On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:38 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > I had the wonderful experience of seeing on Eurochannel the film > _Le Silence de la Mer_. I should have mentioned this was the 2004 version. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From geoffc at molinare.co.uk Mon Jul 13 15:49:56 2009 From: geoffc at molinare.co.uk (Geoff Cooper) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:49:56 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Ursa Gold Message-ID: <6397C31575E44589B6DA63DC7EF0BF06@jeff> Molinare in London is scrapping it's Ursa Gold. IBC 96 show machine with factory fitted Metaspeed, S35,S16, Std16 & S8 gates Full working at switch off last month. Old but serviceable tube etc etc About to be dismantled for spares/skip (beer money!) Also some MK3 bits incl. Viton surfaced capstan, PSU's etc End of an era at Moli's No TK's!! Anyone interested? Geoff Cooper Molinare Ltd 34 Fouberts Pl. London W1F 7PX Tel: 020 7478 7255 Mob: 07768 201133 Fax: 020 7478 7299 E-mail: geoffc at molinare.co.uk From terry at finishedit.com Mon Jul 13 20:52:38 2009 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:52:38 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Apollo Moon camera article Message-ID: Here's the first in a 3-part feature series from TV Technology on the Moon Landing 40th anniversary: http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/83508 -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 I'm beginning to understand myself. But it would have been great to be able to understand myself when I was 20 rather than when I was 82." --Dave Brubeck, American jazz pianist From rob at colorist.org Mon Jul 13 22:00:56 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:00:56 -0300 Subject: [Tig] needed: color correction system for 444 Quadra Message-ID: as posted to the Classifieds at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Myron Lenenski needs a working color corrections system for a Quadra 444 telecine. myron [at] posthouse.com Myron Lenenski CinePost 2160 Kingston Ct. Ste.N Marietta, GA 30067 678-238-0800 www.posthouse.com 404-784-1771 (cell) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From steve at veralith.com Tue Jul 14 00:19:32 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:19:32 -0500 Subject: [Tig] There was a discussion about naming colors Message-ID: <74622B23-E9AC-45A9-AA5C-D8B8725D466C@veralith.com> I knew there was an index of HTML colors. Here's an easy website to find a color and know its "official name." http://chir.ag/projects/name-that-color/ I have no affiliation with this site. Steve Hullfish From pickettscharge at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 04:54:58 2009 From: pickettscharge at hotmail.com (Dave Pickett) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:54:58 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Triangular halo Message-ID: Last night looking at the moon over southern California there was a distinct cyan/blue halo with a point atop the moon. I second and triple glanced and it looked like a triangular color halo. I know a little about the Doppler effect of time shifting light but that sight was a first for me. I don't think it was good ole LA pollution as it was distinctly a reflection being diffracted. Who knew that you could gaze at the moon one night and see something new? Anybody have an idea about what caused that? Maybe a "Northern Lights" type of solar energy bend? Light is fun, Dave Dave Pickett Colorist www.davepickett.com _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From rob at colorist.org Tue Jul 14 06:05:46 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:05:46 -0300 Subject: [Tig] There was a discussion about naming colors In-Reply-To: <74622B23-E9AC-45A9-AA5C-D8B8725D466C@veralith.com> References: <74622B23-E9AC-45A9-AA5C-D8B8725D466C@veralith.com> Message-ID: <1D046D23-B6D0-4BF0-A02E-B8AF28922AE3@colorist.org> On Jul 13, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > Here's an easy website to find a color and know its "official name." > > http://chir.ag/projects/name-that-color/ This is a great find Steve. I'm going to play around with the javascript and see if I can recreate the more extensive "Color Name & Hue" tool by D. Flueck, referenced at the above URL, which is even better but apparently proprietary. I don't believe there are any 'official' names for colors, in fact that's why the study of them is so interesting. Your yellow may be different than my yellow, and then to consider color names like "harlequin," is to enter the realm of imagination. One composer's idea of a flute sound can be quite different from another's, to offer an analogy. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Tue Jul 14 06:10:00 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:10:00 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Triangular halo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40EC27FE-81AC-4D02-A106-BC4F0967108D@colorist.org> On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Dave Pickett wrote: > Last night looking at the moon over southern California there was a > distinct cyan/blue halo with a point atop the moon. I second and > triple glanced and it looked like a triangular color halo. I know a > little about the Doppler effect of time shifting light but that > sight was a first for me. I don't think it was good ole LA > pollution as it was distinctly a reflection being diffracted. Who > knew that you could gaze at the moon one night and see something new? Hi Dave, I have a definitive reference work on outdoor light phenomena, written by a Finn, but it's in storage unfortunately. In the meantime, there are these reports: http://www.haloreports.blogspot.com/ which include references to the Finnish Halo Observers Network. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org From david at dcvideo.com Tue Jul 14 06:30:38 2009 From: david at dcvideo.com (david at dcvideo.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:30:38 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Apollo Moon camera article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090713223038.1tcxzq52s8ww4g84@webmail.dcvideo.com> Here is another Apollo 11 announcement. Let's see how it compares to what has been seen recently. http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=28712%3Ehttp://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=28712 David Crosthwait DC Video www.dcvideo.com > Here's the first in a 3-part feature series from TV Technology on the > Moon Landing 40th anniversary: > http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/83508 > Terry Lockhart > Chief Engineer/IT manager > Finish Editorial From kenmetzker at hotmail.com Tue Jul 14 07:45:03 2009 From: kenmetzker at hotmail.com (Ken Metzker) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:45:03 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... Message-ID: Hi, A small discussion I had with a few colourists in our facility. I was surprised at how many of us had come close to breaking down in tears during set backs in sessions either with the machine or the dp. Let me share my experience. I was working on a Lustre, finishing a lengthy day for night scene. It was extensive tracking of windows and keys. It was a few years ago where tracking was more of a time consuming art, rather then the science it is now. The job needed to be recorded that night and I was within 20minutes of completing the job when the power goes. No worries, I only lose 20 minutes of work with autosave. As power comes back on I find the autosave setting have been disabled. Worse yet I had not saved manually for over four hours. Tears did not flow in this case but definate wetness in the eyes, as I set to redo all that work. And you know the client always feels it was better before you lost the grade, no matter what you do the second time round. Anyone else have some tear breaking sessions they would like to share? Is it that I work with a bunch of "wusses" or is it an industry wide phenomenon. ken Adlabs Mumbai _________________________________________________________________ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 From rpunger at mac.com Tue Jul 14 17:41:32 2009 From: rpunger at mac.com (richard unger) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:41:32 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I have a situation like that occur, I keep an old ADO and Kaleidoscope in the garage, where I baseball bat that biatch down, while listening to "Damn it feels good to be a gangsta" Or else I'm blubbering like a baby. Rick Unger DI/Color Ringside Creative 248-548-2500 main 313-401-1301 cell http://web.mac.com/rpunger From rob at colorist.org Tue Jul 14 18:01:19 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:01:19 -0300 Subject: [Tig] reference links Message-ID: <48BEA611-E65E-4AAC-9CAC-9D8C87D685B3@colorist.org> The reference links on the TIG wiki have been updated to include the various color nomenclature tools, inspired by Steve Hullfish's recent post. There are several other useful links for color science, tutorials, etc. at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Useful_reference_links Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org From mbitetti at aol.com Tue Jul 14 19:01:20 2009 From: mbitetti at aol.com (mbitetti at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBD2C43A1E92DA-754-54C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> I saw it happen. I was a Telecine/Maintenance Engineer at the only post house in Atlanta?who, at the time (early 80's)?had an FDL60 attached to a Wiz?color corrector (a few of you may know what that was).?I saw the colorist's eyes swell and redden as I told him why, when he went to lay down a feature length project, it looked totally and quite unacceptably different. What happened was while he was taking down the last reel and mounting the first, the "projection" lamp blew. FDL60's used two 500watt lamps mounted 180 degrees apart on a turnstile?that would automatically swap the lamps?upon detection of an open/blown filament. Even though the lamps were fed by nicely regulated power supplies, this did not address the?color temperature difference of a new versus an aged lamp.?This was also?early in the software days of the Wiz that "ripple list" aka "global correction" was not yet implemented. As I explained what had happened and he began to accept his only option, I couldn't tell if it was time for a sympathetic gesture of some sort, or?run! Mike Bitetti at the time: Maintenance Engineer, VTA Atlanta (currently unemployed) -----Original Message----- From: richard unger To: Ken Metzker Cc: tig at colorist.org Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2009 12:41 pm Subject: Re: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG.? 2210 subscribers as of July 2009? Gary Adams supports the TIG.? ====? ? When I have a situation like that occur, I keep an old ADO and Kaleidoscope in the garage, where I baseball bat that biatch down, while listening to "Damn it feels good to be a gangsta"? ? Or else I'm blubbering like a baby.? ? Rick Unger? DI/Color? Ringside Creative? 248-548-2500 main? 313-401-1301 cell? http://web.mac.com/rpunger? _______________________________________________? http://reels.colorist.org? http://www.colorist.org/wiki3? From ken at flight4.org Tue Jul 14 20:36:51 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:36:51 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529F78C69F264F51AD5B19DF629FC671@flight4> I was thinking of Russell Square when it used to dump your list completely after a quantity (that I can't remember now) of mark points. I got caught when I wasn't concentrating on the number of events in the list and I used multiple layers on a rather long job.... Client voiced his opinion in Brazilian Portuguese... I was thinking 'beam me up, Scotty'... Body went hot and cold... I would have cried if it would have helped. And there were no deeeep holes to jump in either! Ken Robinson Now in a deep hole in Patagonia From carl at stopp.se Tue Jul 14 22:10:17 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:10:17 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session Message-ID: When I hit that critical moment of a session on were you have to decide if you should kill the client or your self.... I usually go into a state of autism. Blank face, ears/brain only respond to basic commands like "warmer", "darker" etc, noticeable in the sound the button-pressing makes. I was stuck in a job with a client that was one day away from paternity leave and really needed it done. Working on a Resolve with a BUNCH of timelape/speed/dissolve cut into a uncontrolable mess. (you know, a long timelaps shot done over night, cut in a way were they use it all in mixed order) After several hours without the director having anything to eat, we noticed we my edit didn't make much sense... We editor (as the all do) messed up the EDL. I was working on V1, but that was an older version. The new shots was put on the second/third layer and exported as a separate EDL. Client went on trying to blame it on me that it was my fault that he didn't see the final edit during grading. He decided to go out for dinner and came back an hour later, we didn't talk much then. I was in my autism-state, imagining I'm far far away. Some clients should just go for dinner and never come back. That would be nice sometimes. /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Tue Jul 14 21:09:45 2009 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:09:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tig] Moon dogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20257.10.44.0.4.1247602185.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> > Send Tig mailing list submissions to Dave Pickett sez... > Last night looking at the moon over southern California there was a > distinct cyan/blue halo with a point atop the moon. I second and triple > glanced and it looked like a triangular color halo. I know a little about > the Doppler effect of time shifting light but that sight was a first for > me. I don't think it was good ole LA pollution as it was distinctly a > reflection being diffracted. Who knew that you could gaze at the moon one > night and see something new? > > Anybody have an idea about what caused that? Maybe a "Northern Lights" > type of solar energy bend? You can get little ticks on either side of the moon due to diffraction by hexagonal ice crystals very high in the atmosphere. There are called 'Moon dogs'. There are rarer cases where ice forms in different shapes and can give you bright spots in other places. Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44-(0)20-7292-0400 or -0409-224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44-(0)20-7292-0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP, UK From sklein54 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 15 00:17:16 2009 From: sklein54 at earthlink.net (sklein54 at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:17:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... Message-ID: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Not all the way to tears but definitely a huge "F!" when the record tape of an hour of color-on -the-fly with the director super 16 goes into rewind and the telltale tube dirt can now be seen sailing up and down the side. Then when you check the other tapes it's on all of them. From rob at colorist.org Wed Jul 15 00:50:18 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:50:18 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <337212B3-3E34-41A3-BD51-84084355065E@colorist.org> On Jul 14, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Carl Skaff wrote: > When I hit that critical moment of a session on were you have to > decide if you should kill the client or your self.... > I usually go into a state of autism. Blank face, ears/brain only > respond to basic commands like "warmer", "darker" etc, noticeable in > the sound the button-pressing makes. I do something similar, though what I really think of doing is whistling a happy tune. Whistling is underrated as a great client- pleaser, and puts you on a level with some of the greatest entertainers who ever lived.* We all know MJ would have preferred to whistle his hits, but his dad and Quincy wouldn't let him. So I think of whistling "Don't Stop (Til You Get Enough)" but the strings riffs are a real challenge. *apologies to Toots Thielemans -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bobfesta at mac.com Wed Jul 15 01:05:53 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:05:53 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <67D928FB-7931-48D9-8ACB-1C89587F1140@mac.com> Crying is generally perceived as weakness, however, whining is expected from any colorist of substance. ___________________ Bob Festa 1819 Colorado Avenue Santa Monica, CA 90409 310 401-2220 NewHat.TV From rogerito at terra.com.br Wed Jul 15 05:27:33 2009 From: rogerito at terra.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rog=E9rio_Moraes?=) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:27:33 -0300 Subject: [Tig] RES: Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002f01ca0504$94789920$bd69cb60$@com.br> It used to happen to me... I do have some clients that think that a session grading is a miracle fountain, and all things will be solved in there (no matter how terrible it is), and if it doesn't go well, it's the colorist's fault. But then I got prescribed with benzodiazepines... and honestly, things are much better now. :) But still, there are moments when you just wish to disappear. Like when you are told to grade a full feature film in just about 8 hours... __________ Informação do ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versão da vacina 4243 (20090714) __________ A mensagem foi verificada pelo ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From hxpro at cinesite.co.uk Wed Jul 15 09:17:34 2009 From: hxpro at cinesite.co.uk (Kevin Wheatley) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:17:34 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Moon dogs In-Reply-To: <20257.10.44.0.4.1247602185.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> References: <20257.10.44.0.4.1247602185.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <4A5D909E.7060104@cinesite.co.uk> Richard Kirk wrote: > You can get little ticks on either side of the moon due to diffraction by > hexagonal ice crystals very high in the atmosphere. There are called 'Moon > dogs'. There are rarer cases where ice forms in different shapes and can > give you bright spots in other places. The Astronomy Picture of the Day had an example recently: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090611.html Kevin -- | Kevin Wheatley, Cinesite (Europe) Ltd | Nobody thinks this | | Senior Technology | My employer for certain | | And Network Systems Architect | Not even myself | Cinesite (Europe) Ltd. Registered Office: HemelOne, Boundary Way, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP2 7YU Registered in Cardiff No. 2820389 VAT No. 630 5446 60 From owen at ywwg.com Wed Jul 15 14:12:54 2009 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:12:54 -0400 Subject: [Tig] RES: Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: <002f01ca0504$94789920$bd69cb60$@com.br> References: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002f01ca0504$94789920$bd69cb60$@com.br> Message-ID: <1247663574.1712.2.camel@ywwg> On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 01:27 -0300, Rogério Moraes wrote: > Like when you are told to grade a full feature film in > just about 8 hours... > "We just want a really basic color correct, don't do anything fancy..." Well yeah, I normally do just a basic color correct for these docs, that's why it only takes a day and a half... If I'd been doing something "fancy" it'd be taking a lot longer. owen From peter.white at uea.ac.uk Wed Jul 15 10:28:07 2009 From: peter.white at uea.ac.uk (Peter White) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:28:07 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: <8CBD2C43A1E92DA-754-54C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBD2C43A1E92DA-754-54C@WEBMAIL-MC07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: One of our FDL60s actually managed to fuse the lamp wire yesterday. Glass (over the past 20 odd years) has slowly built up in the lamp sockets. Not good. The way around the colour temperature issue is to not run the lamps into the ground. Don't use for more than 50 hours, even if they keep going. We only use one lamp at a time - we don't let it autochange because then we can't tell how long the lamps have been in for! They're also only 250W. Anyone got any old FDL lamp holders around...? To reply at least partially on topic, I haven't actually cried as such but certainly felt 'extremely dismayed' as my 6 hour Prefix/ Marconi grade crashed into the ether with no saves to work from. Peter White Head of Technical Development East Anglian Film Archive From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Jul 15 17:14:33 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:14:33 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2gvr559j3hf1vkgamrau7e0umg08c4fhqa@4ax.com> Having worked as a colorist-in-training for about 90 days during a period of temporary insanity a couple of decades ago, it became very clear to me very quickly that it is the absolutely hottest seat in the house. I was never given a chance to see if I could take the heat or not, but something told me I couldn't have taken it for very long. Suffering fools gladly is an integral part of the job description, and anyone who knows me knows that just ain't me (not for long, anyway). It seems you guys and gals are either partners in crafting some truly stunning images from some truly talented DP's, or else the last best hope of some really incompetent shooters and directors. Some of the absolute shit I saw in my limited time in the chair was jaw droppingly awful. Based on my limited experience, I can't understand why more of you haven't gone totally postal, never mind the tears. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From abrosenfeld at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 18:25:35 2009 From: abrosenfeld at gmail.com (Alan Rosenfeld) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:25:35 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: <2gvr559j3hf1vkgamrau7e0umg08c4fhqa@4ax.com> References: <2gvr559j3hf1vkgamrau7e0umg08c4fhqa@4ax.com> Message-ID: <53bac0a60907151025u53271e8csfea7e562de605f4b@mail.gmail.com> Many years ago I was tech supervising a spot transfer session with a well known producer and an account guy from the agency. The commercial involved a clarifying shampoo product that minimizes swimming pool chlorine damage to the hair. The spot featured a beautiful young lady with shining bright gold blonde hair who dives into a pool. Of course, when she emerges, her hair is soaking wet and several shades darked than bright gold shining - more copper dull. The account guy, in all seriousness asked the colorist if he could match the wet hair color to the pre-pool dive hair color. I almost cried not from frustration, but from biting my tongue so hard as to keep me from saying something politically incorrect since the producer was present. To my relief and amusement the producer looked at the account guy and said, "What are you, a f*&^%$g idiot?" Alan Rosenfeld The Studio at B&H From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Jul 15 20:09:43 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:09:43 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Auction underway in Hollywood.... telecine, DigiBeta, HD gear, film camera, grip Message-ID: <8D244C3C-E266-41A8-8BAC-C7A54D24419F@tedlangdell.com> No connection with the companies or auction house... but just ran across this auction of potentially useful stuff that started at 12:30pm Central Time at the Beverly Garland Hotel on Vineland in N. Hollywood, and online. http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/imagegallery.php?gallery=7573 Items include HD Spirits, HD/SD Cintel C-Realities and Ursa Diamonds, daVinci 2K CC's, two Northlight One 6K's, A never used Lipsner Smith CF-9200 film cleaner, Sony HDW, DigiBeta and Betacam SP decks, DVCAM, DVC Pro50 & HD decks, picture monitors up the wazoo, some waveform and/ or vector scopes, An Avid DS, terminal gear including 10x 1 routers, DA's and such, 35mm Arri BL's and tons of magazines, Hi Hats, fluid heads, Bazooka kits, a couple of surface bags for Arri film cameras, some DigiBeta camcorders, video cameras, switchers, lenses, accessories. Sources that are identifiable from the listings or pictures include Ascent Media's Riot, Level 3 and DDMC, Panavision, Plus8 and Absolute California Production Center, Burbank. Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services From rob at colorist.org Wed Jul 15 21:36:24 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:36:24 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Facility reference development Message-ID: at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable the Facility Table can include: --the URL of the company --a locator map using GoogleMaps, with a pointer to the exact location and address --links to the colorists' reels, if provided on http://reels.colorist.org --a photo, with clickable thumbnail, of a (or the) grading suite. See the entry for Shooters (2nd in the table) for a good example. I'll be happy to do the same for other facilities, upon request. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Jul 16 05:39:20 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:39:20 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Like looking at a theatre screen (1959) Message-ID: in August 1959, The New Yorker magazine ran an ad for a revolutionary Philco solid-state, 21 transistor portable TV. It was the first of its kind. ---ad copy--- "You've never seen TV like Safari! Weighing a scant 15.5 lbs., less than 17" tall, Safari is the world's first TV you can take wherever you go, including places electricity can't go... on picnics, to the beach, on boats, in trains, truly everywhere! Safari plays on its own built-in rechargeable battery, and the recharger is built in, too! (Or save the battery, operate Safari on AC house current!) And wait till you see the picture...it's like looking at a theatre screen! Exclusive Philco design lets you enjoy perfect viewing even in the brightest sunlight. Safari is the world's first transistor TV mass-produced for sale today! Reserve yours now at your Philco dealer's. $250 Rechargeable Battery, $5.25 extra Specifications: 21-transistor chassis, 4 IF stages, 3-transistor high- gain tuner, 12 diodes, 2 rectifiers, easy-to-service Perma-Circuit chassis design. Pivot- Tenna, "jack" for optional ear speaker. Natural or black genuine leather with ... stitching, durable styrene top. .... Not available in UHF." ---end ad copy--- Did they know what they were starting? a "jack" for ear speaker. the ad is viewable at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/File:PortableTV.jpg Additionally, the Swivel-Screen Consolette model, officially named the Siesta, is pictured. "The picture tube swivels a full circle, and has automatic clock controls; turns on your favorite programs, and turns them off at night." According to Philco experts, the Sierra was a modification of the Predicta Princess model. A present-day Sierra in perfect condition is owned by Sara, see article at http://retrorenovation.com/2009/02/13/saras-1960-philco-siesta-television/ -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jpo at prestodigital.ca Thu Jul 16 16:12:33 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:12:33 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Like looking at a theatre screen (1959) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > the ad is viewable at > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/File:PortableTV.jpg We had one of the later models... in a white plastic shell as I recall that was great even up until the mid-80s for watching B&W BlueJays baseball out on the front deck on hot summer evenings... like a radio with an awful picture. The relic in question harks back to the days of the hand-crank wood-case telephones of antiquity in comparison to, say, an iTouch... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From ken at flight4.org Thu Jul 16 18:36:11 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:36:11 -0300 Subject: [Tig] RES: Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: <002f01ca0504$94789920$bd69cb60$@com.br> References: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002f01ca0504$94789920$bd69cb60$@com.br> Message-ID: <3D64AE31E5FD42478D8D77D34C986DBF@flight4> 8 hrs to grade a full feature? You were lucky, Obadiah... In Hungary they gave me 1.5 hrs to grade a complete movie.... I think in that time it is actually possible to make it worse than if you just transfer it with one setting! Ken Robinson > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf > Of Rogério Moraes ==== > > But still, there are moments when you just > wish to disappear. Like when you are told to grade a full feature film in > just about 8 hours... From jpo at prestodigital.ca Thu Jul 16 19:47:46 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:47:46 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor Message-ID: A new-ish player in the budget class is touting their new offering: http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/LM2430W as a "Grade-1" grade-capable monitoring solution, complete with a "Neutral Density" option to improve contrast and reduce ambient glare. Thoughts? For starters, I haven't seen it, preliminary casual reports are moderately surprised with performance... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at cinelab.com Thu Jul 16 21:05:50 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:05:50 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <552FC97A-7C10-4CB1-B5A0-FC91DAC9323C@cinelab.com> > For starters, I haven't seen it, preliminary casual reports are > moderately surprised with performance... 8bit fluorescent backlight lcd panel isn't a RGB led panel with a Aja or Decklink SDi converter the same thing or better for 1/3 the price? How about a Pioneer Kuro 50" with a SDI converter? Isn't that better for $5K? -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Thu Jul 16 21:37:07 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:37:07 -0300 Subject: [Tig] New in the Classified Section Message-ID: <7896F442-11A3-4B2A-AF7C-43CA44A9245B@colorist.org> New at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds *'''Position available in Cairo, Egypt''' for experienced Baselight Colorist for 3-6 months contract (could be extended) The requested colorist will be the senior colorist , doing commercials and feature work in client attended sessions. English speaking is a must. Please contact cairodijob at gmail.com -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From adrian at autotv.co.uk Fri Jul 17 09:48:38 2009 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:48:38 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16 Jul 2009, at 19:47, Joe Owens wrote: > > A new-ish player in the budget class is touting their new offering: > http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/LM2430W > as a "Grade-1" grade-capable monitoring solution, complete with a > "Neutral Density" option to improve contrast and reduce ambient glare. > It looks like a rebadged JVC, and the specs claim it's 8 bit grade 2, so I'm not sure what's going on here. -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION 35 BEDFORDBURY LONDON WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- From jpo at prestodigital.ca Fri Jul 17 16:39:48 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:39:48 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My bad, I've been corrected to change the URL to http:// www.flandersscientific.com/index/LM2450W . Which is their "Grade 1" offering. On 17-Jul-09, at 2:48 AM, Adrian Thomas wrote: >> http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/LM2430W >> as a "Grade-1" grade-capable monitoring solution, complete with a >> "Neutral Density" option to improve contrast and reduce ambient >> glare. >> > > It looks like a rebadged JVC, and the specs claim it's 8 bit grade > 2, so I'm not sure what's going on here Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From owen at ywwg.com Fri Jul 17 05:50:34 2009 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:50:34 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: <552FC97A-7C10-4CB1-B5A0-FC91DAC9323C@cinelab.com> References: <552FC97A-7C10-4CB1-B5A0-FC91DAC9323C@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <1247806234.5855.348.camel@ywwg> On Thu, 2009-07-16 at 16:05 -0400, Robert Houllahan wrote: > > > > For starters, I haven't seen it, preliminary casual reports are > > moderately surprised with performance... > > 8bit fluorescent backlight lcd panel isn't a RGB led panel with a Aja > or Decklink SDi converter the same thing or better for 1/3 the price? > How about a Pioneer Kuro 50" with a SDI converter? Isn't that better > for $5K? Having used a few of the "budget" panels now, including a panasonic 24", Dreamcolor+HDLink Pro (in my own suite), jvc 24", and briefly a small sony LCD, I've come to the conclusion that a Dreamcolor + Gefen converter is the combination to beat. With most of those monitors at the <5K$ level you get horrible off-axis performance, meh edge-to-edge brightness, and foggy blacklevels. The HP is significantly better than any of the others. I had early problems not understanding the limitations of the panel and had been considering replacing it with a monitor meant for video, but based on my experience with those other monitors, I'm trading in my hdlink and buying a gefen tomorrow (which will unlock full 10-bit support). The price on the HP has come down enough that even after tacking on the grand for the gefen it's still a steal. (not associated with hp / gefen / etc) Owen Williams -- Online Editor / Colorist Rockhopper Post Production 304 Pleasant St Watertown, MA 02472 www.rockhopperpost.com 617.669.3020 From bill at asylumfx.com Fri Jul 17 17:18:50 2009 From: bill at asylumfx.com (bill laverty) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:18:50 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor Message-ID: <1247847530.2912.228.camel@debbie.asylumfx.com> On Thu, 2009-07-16 at 16:05 -0400, Robert Houllahan wrote: > How about a Pioneer Kuro 50" with a SDI converter? Isn't that better > for $5K? Been using the Pioneer Elite glass in my bays for some time now. They are a decent client monitor. You always hate running more than 1 color monitor in a suite but... You'll want to keep your eye on them. They will drift. Also be careful in your choice of converters. Set up my first Elite with a Black Magic HDLink. Great box, excellent price point, just no Psf support. That's a death blow when you are supporting a lot of the Discreet product. Would up purchasing a Gefen scaler converter. Only thing available at the time. Not crazy about Gefen. Their reliability and product support rival that of Iomega and the Zip drive for those of us who still remember. -Bill Bill Laverty Chief Engineer Asylum Visual Effects 310 395 4975 From rob at cinelab.com Fri Jul 17 18:04:49 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:04:49 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <609A0BA5-D3EE-4668-AFDF-F24FAB57646E@cinelab.com> > My bad, I've been corrected to change the URL to http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/LM2450W > . Which is their "Grade 1" offering. Also Fluorescent lit and 8-bit according to the specs. I like the Kuro plasma's I have seen and as owen said the dreamcolor with proper 10- bit in might be a choice. Is the dreamcolor RGB-Led it? and is it IPS? I think LG has a RGB-Led lit 10bit IPS panel on the market too... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at cinelab.com Fri Jul 17 18:14:13 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:14:13 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: <1247806234.5855.348.camel@ywwg> References: <552FC97A-7C10-4CB1-B5A0-FC91DAC9323C@cinelab.com> <1247806234.5855.348.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: > I'm trading in my hdlink and buying a gefen tomorrow (which will > unlock full 10-bit > support). The price on the HP has come down enough that even after > tacking on the grand for the gefen it's still a steal. I should have read the specs on the Dreamcolor it is RGB-LED and IPS the AJA Hi5 SDI to Hdmi also suppoerts 10-bit BTW.... I still think the Kuro 50" Plasma is better.....but you can pick up a Dreamcolor and a Aja or Gefen for less than $2500 if you are stingy -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Fri Jul 17 18:40:49 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:40:49 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels Message-ID: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> As we've had some discussion over the years of control panels and their usability, and as we're approaching (or have we passed) the anniversary of Apollo 11 moon arrival, I found the original drawing for the Control Panel (I think this is the command module CP) and a photo of it. I was unable to find the secondaries, but did find the Lamp Test switch. I challenge anyone else to find it, or to find appropriate controls for use in a grading suite. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Apollo_11 -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Fri Jul 17 20:12:30 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:12:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: <1247847530.2912.228.camel@debbie.asylumfx.com> References: <1247847530.2912.228.camel@debbie.asylumfx.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009, bill laverty wrote: > Been using the Pioneer Elite glass in my bays for some time now. They > are a decent client monitor. You always hate running more than 1 color monitor > in a suite but... Unfortunately, Pioneer Kuro, Elite, and its entire HDTV lineup are now gone. They put the equipment from their manufacturing plant up for public auction so it is all gone now and the manufacturing facility was not sold to a former competitor. Pioneer is out of the HD display business. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From terry at finishedit.com Fri Jul 17 19:01:55 2009 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:01:55 -0400 Subject: [Tig] LCD monitors and rebranding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At least the LM2450W looks pretty identical to the Ikegami HLM-2450, right down to the model number. The 2430 may not have been marketed by Ike in the USA. I goty a look at an Ike branded 2450 and I was very impressed. Especially at the price point, which at the time was a half-price promotion for $2600. Unbelievable. Also Ike has a 32" model with the same features for a similarly low price around $6000 list. However I did not get to see that one. No affiliation, yada yada, just wish I could afford some new gear. Always looking. -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 I'm beginning to understand myself. But it would have been great to be able to understand myself when I was 20 rather than when I was 82." --Dave Brubeck, American jazz pianist On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:43 PM, tig-request at colorist.org wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:47:46 -0600 > From: Joe Owens > To: "tig at colorist.org Group" > Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > A new-ish player in the budget class is touting their new offering: > http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/LM2430W > as a "Grade-1" grade-capable monitoring solution, complete with a > "Neutral Density" option to improve contrast and reduce ambient glare. > > Thoughts? > > For starters, I haven't seen it, preliminary casual reports are > moderately surprised with performance... > > Joe Owens > Presto!Digital Colourgrade > 302-9664 106 Avenue > Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 > +1 780 421-9980 > jpo at prestodigital.ca > > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:48:38 +0100 > From: Adrian Thomas > To: Joe Owens > Cc: "tig at colorist.org Group" > Subject: Re: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > On 16 Jul 2009, at 19:47, Joe Owens wrote: >> >> A new-ish player in the budget class is touting their new offering: >> http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/LM2430W >> as a "Grade-1" grade-capable monitoring solution, complete with a >> "Neutral Density" option to improve contrast and reduce ambient >> glare. >> > > It looks like a rebadged JVC, and the specs claim it's 8 bit grade 2, > so I'm not sure what's going on here. > > -- > Adrian Thomas > AUTOMATIC TELEVISION > 35 BEDFORDBURY > LONDON WC2N 4DU > www.autotv.co.uk > +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 > -- From owen at ywwg.com Fri Jul 17 20:39:16 2009 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:39:16 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Flanders Scientific "Grade" monitor In-Reply-To: <1247847530.2912.228.camel@debbie.asylumfx.com> References: <1247847530.2912.228.camel@debbie.asylumfx.com> Message-ID: <1247859556.5855.751.camel@ywwg> On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 09:18 -0700, bill laverty wrote: > Also be careful in > your choice of converters. Set up my first Elite with a Black Magic HDLink. > Great box, excellent price point, just no Psf support. That's a death blow when > you are supporting a lot of the Discreet product. Would up purchasing a Gefen > scaler converter. Only thing available at the time. Not crazy about Gefen. Their > reliability and product support rival that of Iomega and the Zip drive for those > of us who still remember. The HDLink Pro is a big improvement over the HDLINK, but of course it's still only 8-bit DVI output. AJA is coming out with a new converter that does 10-bit HDMI 1.3 over a DVI connection (an ugly hack to avoid an HDMI licensing fee, perhaps?), so that's another option. The new AJA LHi card also has two hdmi outputs, but I don't know if it supports deinterlacing / YCrCb->RGB conversion. owen From bram at dandesmet.com Fri Jul 17 20:53:52 2009 From: bram at dandesmet.com (Bram Desmet) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:53:52 -0400 Subject: [Tig] LCD monitors and rebranding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01ca0718$4fefb700$efcf2500$@com> To clear this up, FSI monitors are NOT rebranded Ikegami or JVC monitors. None of the hardware (not even the LCD panel, which of course can only be sourced from a handful of companies) is the same between FSI and either of those two other brands. We also don't use a generic video processing chip (like Genesis or Gennum VXP), it is essentially a giant FPGA that is programmed from the ground up for lack of a better way to phrase it. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find something even remotely similar in terms of hardware used (and design philosophy implemented) on the market, much less a carbon copy. We absolutely do not market this as monitor for us in a true telecine application. When we walk into a post production facility we actually tell people right away that we feel the monitor is well suited for most applications short of a telecine environment. My humble opinion is that even some of the $15,000 to $30,000 LCD solutions on the market won't get the job done for these highly color critical applications. However, for other broadcast or post production applications there is a need for a broadcast monitor, with broadcast features, to replace aging CRTs...that is the role we try to fill. Hope this reads as little as possible like a sales pitch, just want to clear up some misconceptions. Feel free to contact me off-list if preferred. Bram Desmet Bram at FlandersScientific.com 404.610.1940 From rob at colorist.org Fri Jul 17 20:53:46 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:53:46 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> aha. found the Primary/Secondary switch, the colornaut is working with Secondaries in the photo. the Helium controls have protective covers on the switches. In the photo, the Tunnel Lights are switched on. The colornaut is entering a command into the computer, which is running version 34 of software. The Gimbal Lock lamp is illuminated. Hard to see where the Manual Attitude controls are set, but as we know, most colorists have a negative attitude toward manuals. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at cinelab.com Fri Jul 17 21:07:56 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:07:56 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> Message-ID: <24EDBA98-F5EC-45D4-A0E4-5C291536F793@cinelab.com> > aha. found the Primary/Secondary switch, the colornaut is working > with Secondaries in the photo. Did you see that the secondaries are on the right panel and are of the Dubner slider variety? -Rob "last Dubner driver in the US and probably the youngest but that won't last forever" Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Fri Jul 17 21:29:05 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:29:05 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <24EDBA98-F5EC-45D4-A0E4-5C291536F793@cinelab.com> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> <24EDBA98-F5EC-45D4-A0E4-5C291536F793@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <32B6F5C5-7AC3-463B-8F32-4D439C1BDB45@colorist.org> On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > Did you see that the secondaries are on the right panel and are of > the Dubner slider variety? huh, no, missed that Rob. But it's clear that the engineers who made the drawing assumed the colornaut would be working in Primaries (the switch is in PRI in the drawing) but in practice, as shown in the reality of the photo, the switch is in SEC. If anyone can figure out what panel 13 is meant for... the main rotary control says "Alt Set" but goes only up to 300, so not sure if it can be an altimeter control. There's a switch to the left of it "Earth / Lunar" which just might be a very important switch to have set correctly. Finally, colorists who have always wanted the capability, finally have with this design of 40+ years ago, a THRUST switch, to go along with the Float Bag. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at cinelab.com Fri Jul 17 21:51:26 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:51:26 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <32B6F5C5-7AC3-463B-8F32-4D439C1BDB45@colorist.org> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> <24EDBA98-F5EC-45D4-A0E4-5C291536F793@cinelab.com> <32B6F5C5-7AC3-463B-8F32-4D439C1BDB45@colorist.org> Message-ID: <3E65BC91-309C-4431-96EB-29BF37AE1AB8@cinelab.com> > There's a switch to the left of it "Earth / Lunar" which just > might be a very important switch to > have set correctly. That is the truth! last time I did a grade in lunar orbit I had the thing in Earth mode and had to redo the whole job! -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From bobfesta at mac.com Fri Jul 17 22:08:40 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:08:40 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <3E65BC91-309C-4431-96EB-29BF37AE1AB8@cinelab.com> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> <24EDBA98-F5EC-45D4-A0E4-5C291536F793@cinelab.com> <32B6F5C5-7AC3-463B-8F32-4D439C1BDB45@colorist.org> <3E65BC91-309C-4431-96EB-29BF37AE1AB8@cinelab.com> Message-ID: On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > >> There's a switch to the left of it "Earth / Lunar" which just >> might be a very important switch to >> have set correctly. > > That is the truth! last time I did a grade in lunar orbit I had the > thing in Earth mode and had to redo the whole job! No need to redo the whole job when a global ripple would have worked :) ___________________ Bob Festa From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Jul 17 22:57:57 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:57:57 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> <1F7699DA-91F5-4463-84B9-D0B4AAC33C07@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1EA9BC3D-C027-4228-9AC1-067C7F45D7F0@tedlangdell.com> On Jul 17, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > but as we know, most colorists have a negative attitude toward > manuals. And a manual attitude towards negatives! Ted Langdell tedlangdell.com and flashscan8.us From shukkra at yahoo.in Sun Jul 19 08:30:33 2009 From: shukkra at yahoo.in (Mr Shukkra) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:00:33 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Tig] freelance service engineer for URSA telecines from Chennai - INDIA Message-ID: <315797.53205.qm@web95303.mail.in2.yahoo.com>  Hi      More than 10 years service experiences in hand and presently maintaining three of URSA GOLD telecines in Chennai city, INDIA.    Anybody interested in repairing, installing and servicing your telecines let me know, i can give good quality of service and have some spares in my hand.   Thanks   Shukkran See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From screenwarmer at cox.net Mon Jul 20 16:46:37 2009 From: screenwarmer at cox.net (Rich Montez) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:46:37 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> Message-ID: <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> They can send a man to the moon, where the heck is the "auto-color" button? 20 some years ago I had an actress/producer make reference to man on the moon and why couldn't we lay down her feature to 3/4'' faster than realtime? Of course she also wanted scene to scene color correction of her high-con print as this was her master. Rich ---- Rob Lingelbach wrote: > As we've had some discussion over the years of control panels and > their usability, > and as we're approaching (or have we passed) the anniversary of Apollo > 11 moon From BTopazio at company3.com Mon Jul 20 17:19:11 2009 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:19:11 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Control Pan In-Reply-To: <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> Message-ID: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63402A0AC34@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> I suspect getting a man to the moon is the easy part. Getting him back is another matter Bill Topazio Engineering -----Original Message----- They can send a man to the moon, where the heck is the "auto-color" button? Rich From rob at colorist.org Mon Jul 20 17:23:26 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:23:26 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Control Pan In-Reply-To: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63402A0AC34@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63402A0AC34@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: <3974E0D4-113F-4044-9017-A8B2945F417E@colorist.org> On Jul 20, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Bill Topazio wrote: > I suspect getting a man to the moon is the easy part. Getting him > back > is another matter matter has a lot to do with it. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From jpo at prestodigital.ca Mon Jul 20 18:11:35 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:11:35 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> References: <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> Message-ID: > > They can send a man to the moon, where the heck is the "auto-color" > button? > > 20 some years ago I had an actress/producer make reference to man > on the moon and why couldn't we lay down her feature to 3/4'' > faster than realtime? Of course she also wanted scene to scene > color correction of her high-con print as this was her master. Jerry Seinfeld had the best take on this: Monologue We never should have landed a man on the moon. It's a mistake. Now everything is compared to that one accomplishment. I can't believe they could land a man on the moon . . . and taste my coffee! I think we all would have been a lot happier if they hadn't landed a man on the moon. Then we'd go, They can't make a prescription bottle top that's easy to open? I'm not surprised they couldn't land a man on the moon. Things make perfect sense to me now. Neil Armstrong should have said, "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for every, complaining, s.o.b. on the face of the earth. " Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From jpo at prestodigital.ca Mon Jul 20 18:16:42 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:16:42 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels on the moon In-Reply-To: <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> References: <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> Message-ID: With the correct emphasis: http://www.livevideo.com/video/8A2DD55DC26D47249E5CFC4FCAF93BE3/ seinfeld-the-dinner-party.aspx Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at colorist.org Mon Jul 20 20:49:07 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:49:07 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: References: <20090720114638.A79JJ.281677.imail@fed1rmwml38> Message-ID: On Jul 20, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Joe Owens wrote: > We never should have landed a man on the moon. It's a mistake. Now > everything is compared to that one accomplishment. I can't believe > they could land a man on the moon . . . and taste my coffee! Taking nothing away from Seinfeld, nor the excellent NY humor, I think if you talk to some engineers of the enlightened variety, they might tell you that the theoretical science to land a man on the moon was done in the early 1700s. How do those restored videos of moonwalking look? (I'm having trouble streaming them due to 2 teenagers at home and a slow connection.) I saw a few seconds of Armstrong descending the ladder, and there were disturbing artifacts that looked like someone overdid the digital equivalent of clamping, but don't know if I was getting the signal, so to speak. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From carl at stopp.se Mon Jul 20 21:36:08 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:36:08 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Telecine vs DI grading Message-ID: I wanted to ask you guys something... 1) How many of you prefer grading of a traditional Telecine compared to grade in a NonLinearSuite (Resovle/BaseLight/Nucoda/Luster/Color/IQ etc) from flat/best/2K-log scans? 2) Why do you prefer one over the other? 3) Are you finding yourself more and more booked in the "DI-suite" nowadays compared to the Telecine? /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From ctenney at photosonics.com Mon Jul 20 23:41:48 2009 From: ctenney at photosonics.com (Chris) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:41:48 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Scanner Accuracy Message-ID: <003401ca098b$4583a540$d08aefc0$@com> Hello, Can I get some suggestions and/or history lessons on what the industry determines the best method for determining accuracy (sharpness) of a film scanning system? I have spoke to some that have suggested a D.E.L. chart. I have managed to get a few frames of the film, but need some advice on scoring my results. I have found that this film is no longer available are there others to replace the D.E.L.? Best Regards, Chris Tenney IMC / Photosonics (517) 688-4322 Office (517) 414-3082 Cell ctenney at photosonics.com www.photosonics.com From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Jul 21 02:03:19 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:03:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Scanner Accuracy In-Reply-To: <003401ca098b$4583a540$d08aefc0$@com> References: <003401ca098b$4583a540$d08aefc0$@com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Chris wrote: > > Can I get some suggestions and/or history lessons on what the industry > determines the best method for determining accuracy (sharpness) of a film > scanning system? I have spoke to some that have suggested a D.E.L. chart. > I have managed to get a few frames of the film, but need some advice on > scoring my results. While the resolution chart is useful (and someone should be in the business of selling one), it is best not to confuse sharpness with accuracy. While sharpness is often a component of accuracy, sometimes apparent sharpness could actually be a defect. Within the past year there was a discussion on this list of sharpness charts and at that time we found a number of freely available resolution test charts (images) which could be printed on a computer printer. If you have access to a high-grade camera, or film printer, you could make your own test film from one of these. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Tue Jul 21 02:44:16 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:44:16 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Scanner Accuracy In-Reply-To: References: <003401ca098b$4583a540$d08aefc0$@com> Message-ID: <0D1B69C3-C60D-4EBB-8A08-1DD07E77AFD3@colorist.org> On Jul 20, 2009, at 10:03 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > Within the past year there was a discussion on this list of > sharpness charts and at that time we found a number of freely > available resolution test charts (images) which could be printed on > a computer printer. If you have access to a high-grade camera, or > film printer, you could make your own test film from one of these. http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2009-February/015455.html http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2009-March/015734.html -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From ken at flight4.org Tue Jul 21 02:50:36 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:50:36 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Scanner Accuracy In-Reply-To: References: <003401ca098b$4583a540$d08aefc0$@com> Message-ID: I would like to 'chuck' in my 2 centavos de peso (de Argentina).... One should also remember to add signal to noise in the tests... Maybe a bit of software that allows accurate comparison... Ken Robinson (In Patagonia, wondering how the Arg Government can raise natural Gas prices by 400% in the middle of winter in one hit) (oops, sorry... too much noise to signal) From jorgeyus at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 13:13:35 2009 From: jorgeyus at gmail.com (Jorge Ortiz Yus) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:13:35 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Kuro TV Message-ID: Hi Rob, I don't know if this question as been done before, but now I have this issue. Normally we work with an hd 1080 crt Sony monitor and we callibrate it with DK-Audio PM5639 colour analyser. Recently I bought a Kuro 50" plasma for mi home cinema, and thats my question: is there an easy way to do the analysing on the kuro? Im not so sure if the DK-Audio is the correct analyser for plasma, maybe I can do it with Eye One Display 2? Neither? Perhaps is a chimera to have a optimum colour balance? I'm going crazy with this tv!!! The quality is so good but the colour allways makes me feel it's not rigth, Thanks a lot in advance, Jorge From simonastbury at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 09:57:46 2009 From: simonastbury at hotmail.com (simon astbury) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:57:46 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Telecine vs DI grading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > 1) > How many of you prefer grading of a traditional Telecine compared to grade in a NonLinearSuite > (Resovle/BaseLight/Nucoda/Luster/Color/IQ etc) from flat/best/2K-log scans? I have not touched film in over 3 years now. Those of us working in the broadcast world in Europe see less and less film. In fact film for factual TV now is all but extinct in the UK. So unfortunately I don't get a choice..... I do miss working on film (scanned or not) though. _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From dcorbitt77 at comcast.net Tue Jul 21 17:42:27 2009 From: dcorbitt77 at comcast.net (dcorbitt77 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:42:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Kuro TV In-Reply-To: <285786883.3978291248194422474.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1115599131.3979631248194547847.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Jorge, You can either use a good Photospectro-radiometer to get accurate readings of the primaries (RGB) and white point for calibration, or a good tri-stimulus color analyzer like the Klein K-10 colorimeter for the same thing. You need to have access to adjustments such as Gamma (set to around 2.4 to 2.5 if it is available), RGB low lights and highlights settings, and overall contrast and brightness. You can get a BluRay disc for calibration for test signals such as Joe Kane's Digital Video Essentials. There may be others on the market at this point, don't know. I suspect the DK PM5639 CRT Analyzer will not give you accurate results for the spectrum emitted by the RGB primaries of the Kuro. Dave Corbitt Summit, NJ 07901 From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Tue Jul 21 18:04:32 2009 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (peter_swinson at compuserve.com) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:04:32 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Scanner Accuracy Message-ID: <8CBD83C736FD19B-A04-24BC@angweb-usd020.sysops.aol.com> Chris wrote regarding DEL test film ? I have found that this film is no longer available are there others to replace the D.E.L.? ? I understand that this film is no longer available although, no doubt the method of production could still be had, should someone take up the mantle. ? I understand that Stan Dickenson, the guy that made D.E.L., used very high resolution black & white stock that was not exposed by a film camera and lens, but was exposed using the same method that computer components are etched. Stan had contacts in the IC fabrication plant industry. ? The process was obviously very expensive and slow, but did produce film, B&W, with incredible resolution. While at Cintel we got Stan to make some very, very high resolution test film, from charts we designed to check out the design stages of several 4K scanners. Looking at DEL and the film he had made for Cintel, I think, 4K modulation bars, the modulation was still 100% well beyond 4K. This proved very useful material as we did not have to calculate which losses were film and which were optics etc. ? Alas, Stan ceased making material long ago, else some of the Cintel film may have been available for sale. ? Cheers ? Peter ________________________________________________________________________ Don't let your email address define you - Define yourself at http://www.tunome.com today! From waliashamsher at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 17:47:59 2009 From: waliashamsher at gmail.com (shamsher walia) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:17:59 +0530 Subject: [Tig] Telecine vs DI grading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do prefer Non Linear .... -- Sam Walia Mobile Num : +91-9819980499 From dcorbitt77 at comcast.net Tue Jul 21 18:56:17 2009 From: dcorbitt77 at comcast.net (dcorbitt77 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:56:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Scanner Accuracy In-Reply-To: <1674202121.4013871248198920887.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2696809.4014361248198977285.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Hi Peter, Let me clear up a couple of things. I visited Stan before he moved from Connecticut to Florida maybe 6 years ago or so and he showed me his rig for making test films. He did shoot them with a pin registered camera on a custom built and custom lit animation stand, not some kind of photo etching rig. He used fine grain black and white stock, not too sure what the stock was. But his expertise created an extremely flat lit test pattern. His hard copy pattern plate was printed on a very fine resolution printer from a computer generated pattern. He has since semi retired in Florida and withdrawn from the test film business. Too bad, since the DEL chart and other charts he created were of the finest quality and consistency. Dave Corbitt Summit, NJ 07901 From jdhouston at earthlink.net Wed Jul 22 14:34:04 2009 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:34:04 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Control Panels In-Reply-To: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> References: <34C987BC-4EE1-4402-8B62-2EBC1CC09F5D@colorist.org> Message-ID: <2218465A-DA04-4D05-A702-468A350FFEB9@earthlink.net> On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:40 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > As we've had some discussion over the years of control panels and > their usability, Not to make it hard or anything, but the panel the astronaut is touching is the main computer entry. In order to color correct, you would first have to enter the hexadecimal location of the program for changing the red color, and then punch in the hexadecimal value of the new color. Note that three of the five running computers would have to agree with you before the color would be changed. Jim Houston From liao.zd at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 15:58:30 2009 From: liao.zd at gmail.com (Liao Zhuodi) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:58:30 +0800 Subject: [Tig] Negative developing and ARRILaser Message-ID: We got a local Cinelab that they want to change the speed for the negative going through the soup. Because there is a DI facility complains that their 4 ArriLasers can not achieve the maximum density on red layer for the 5242 Kodak stock developing, the maximum red density we talk about is around 1.96, and they can only achieve 1.91, the ARRI engineer does not know why. So they negotiate with the Cinelab, the lab slows down the speed by 6 feet (per second? not sure), so the negative stays longer in the soup than before, and the overall density goes up. But, at the same time, our arrilaser is fine, and can achieve the maximum red density on developed film, which means the Cinelab developing is fine, and our ArriLaser is fine too. My doubts are: 1) Does Cinelab have a standard for developing? If so, why our local Cinelab change the speed according to some clients demand. 2) If the overall density goes up, and i should change the calibration LUT in my arrilaser to make the 21 step Kodak sweep according to standards, less laser power can achieve more density, does it mean we can get less grains or noise on the negative? 3) If the negative stay longer in the soup, other than density changes, is there any other aftermath brought to the negative? From carl at stopp.se Wed Jul 22 19:34:20 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:34:20 +0200 Subject: [Tig] daVinci 3D-Colorist Message-ID: Hi boys and girls. Is there a daVinci-Colorist out there that done any 3D-stereoscopic job that could email me off list? /carl carl at stopp.se From craig at optimus.com Wed Jul 22 19:22:05 2009 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:22:05 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Homemade telecine scanner using Lego Mindstorms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6758CD.6080607@optimus.com> Thanks Steve - That's the best thing I've seen in ages. I want to make one.... I have some ideas - Great find. CL Steve Hullfish wrote: > > > I supposed this could be considered off-topic, but I think this is > really humorous and ingenious. I found in while I was using > StumbleUpon, which is kind of the reverse of Google: it takes you to > websites you didn't know you wanted to find. > > http://www.kaimio.fi/blogs/harri/entry/fun_with_mindstorms_old_8mm > From carl at stopp.se Fri Jul 24 02:07:49 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:07:49 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Crying in a Session Message-ID: Just spent a hole evening+night (19-03) doing zooms on a feature. And thats after already spent a good 18hrs doing zooms to match the offline. I'm not kidding, they zoomed/tilted at least 90% of the movie! Beat that if you can /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From Adrian.Seery at rushes.co.uk Fri Jul 24 12:00:24 2009 From: Adrian.Seery at rushes.co.uk (Adrian Seery) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:00:24 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Crying in a Session References: Message-ID: Once had to do 16 telecine moves on every pass of a motion control set up. Every other shot had up to 8 tk moves, all of it shot on motion 'control'. Adrian ________________________________ From: tig-bounces at colorist.org on behalf of Carl Skaff Sent: Fri 24/07/2009 02:07 To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Crying in a Session Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. July 2009: 2210 subscribers. Carl Skaff supports the TIG. http://reels.colorist.org Colorist Reels http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Facility_Table ==== Just spent a hole evening+night (19-03) doing zooms on a feature. And thats after already spent a good 18hrs doing zooms to match the offline. I'm not kidding, they zoomed/tilted at least 90% of the movie! Beat that if you can /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 Rushes Postproduction Limited, 66 Old Compton Street, London W1D 4UH tel: +44 (0)20 7437 8676 web: http://www.rushes.co.uk The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose the e-mail or any part of its contents or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail. Rushes Postproduction Limited cannot accept responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or attachments and recommend that you subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to use. From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Sat Jul 25 22:52:39 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:52:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Announcing GraphicsMagick 1.3.6 Message-ID: GraphicsMagick 1.3.6 (free open source) is now available. Visit the GraphicsMagick web site at "http://www.graphicsmagick.org/". GraphicsMagick may be downloaded from SourceForge at "http://sourceforge.net/projects/graphicsmagick/files/" or from the GraphicsMagick ftp site at "ftp://ftp.graphicsmagick.org/pub/GraphicsMagick/1.3". Of particular interest to people on the TIG, this release provides support for Hald CLUT and the ASC-CDL. While perfecting the ASC-CDL (+/- 1 count on SOP tests as per ASC requirement) I discovered that the scaling in the DPX coder was not quite right. DPX files were round-tripping ok, but image processing could result in improperly rounding some values down. The 'mogrify' subcommand can now easily deal with hundreds of thousands of files in one whack by supplying the list of file names to process via a "@filenames.txt" file containing all of the file names. Simple wildcards (protected by quotes) work too. If you have been using GraphicsMagick then you should update to this release. Thanks, Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Sat Jul 25 22:58:22 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:58:22 -0300 Subject: [Tig] further back in time Message-ID: Edison showed his Kinetoscope films in 1891 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetoscope ): In the first Kinetograph application, Edison stated, "I have been able to take with a single camera and a tape-film as many as forty-six photographs per second...but I do not wish to limit the scope of my invention to this high rate of speed...since with some subjects a speed as low as thirty pictures per second or even lower is sufficient." I believe these were films printed on paper. The U.S. Library of Congress allows download of many of these films on the web: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/awlhtml/workleistitlindex1.html in addition to other films made from 1894 to 1915. The _Charleston Chain Gang_ is one of my favorites, along with _A Rube at a County Fair_. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org From abrosenfeld at gmail.com Sat Jul 25 23:25:09 2009 From: abrosenfeld at gmail.com (Alan Rosenfeld) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:25:09 -0400 Subject: [Tig] further back in time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53bac0a60907251525q27c2c3c5n338e314060080c10@mail.gmail.com> As a point of fact, in order to copyright films with The Library of Congress in the early days of motion pictures the negative was printed to long rolls of photographic paper and kept in cabinets at the LoC with the earlier years kept on the lower shelves, later on higher. Many of these prints were destroyed by rats and such that infested the lower shelves. I took a course in film school on DW Griffith's first year as director for Biograph - 1908. The prints they showed us were resurrected by shooting optical negs from the then recently discovered paper prints - luckily they were on a high shelf. Alan Rosenfeld The Studio at B&H On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: I believe these were > films printed on paper. > > The U.S. Library of Congress allows download of many of these films on the > web: From edgarlebron at hotmail.com Sun Jul 26 03:08:58 2009 From: edgarlebron at hotmail.com (Edgardo Lebron diaz) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 02:08:58 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Telecine vs DI grading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi: I think the traditional is more faster to get the look,but in a nonlinear world (Baselight) you have more tools to make your client more happy. ( in a world with no traditionals DP ). > > How many of you prefer grading of a traditional Telecine compared to grade in a NonLinearSuite > > (Resovle/BaseLight/Nucoda/Luster/Color/IQ etc) from flat/best/2K-log scans? > From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Mon Jul 27 12:11:26 2009 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:11:26 -0500 Subject: [Tig] further back in time - Paper Prints In-Reply-To: <53bac0a60907251525q27c2c3c5n338e314060080c10@mail.gmail.com> References: <53bac0a60907251525q27c2c3c5n338e314060080c10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jul 25, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Alan Rosenfeld wrote: > As a point of fact, in order to copyright films with The Library of > Congress in the early days of motion pictures the negative was printed > to long rolls of photographic paper and kept in cabinets at the LoC > with the earlier years kept on the lower shelves, later on higher. > Many of these prints were destroyed by rats and such that infested the > lower shelves. I took a course in film school on DW Griffith's first > year as director for Biograph - 1908. The prints they showed us were > resurrected by shooting optical negs from the then recently discovered > paper prints - luckily they were on a high shelf. > We built a new digital scanner for the paper print project a few years ago, and just delivered a brand new scanner for film and paper prints to the LOC. There's some dated information in a piece I wrote that you can download as a PDF from homepage.mac.com/kinetta, and scroll down to PaperPrint2009LowRes. (The high res version is too big --38MB.) The original film negs shot off the paper prints were pretty bad -- lots of registration problems, and plenty of printed-in dirt, dust, and scratches. This was a perfect thing to do digitally. Jeff "archival only, really, and just for information, honest" Kreines Kinetta From simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk Mon Jul 27 07:45:43 2009 From: simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk (Simon Burley) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:45:43 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Vistavision Message-ID: <1214203645-1248677103-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1069021322-@bxe1002.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Hi everyone, Are there any machines in goode olde London town that can transfer vistavision? Just for standard def video rushes, no hd required. Somehow I feel that I should know the answer to this question, but don't. Thanks, Simon Simon Burley RPS Film Imaging Ltd ** Please note new telephone number below ** T: +44 (0) 208 661 9900 M: +44 (0) 7702 732 655 e: simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk From rob at colorist.org Mon Jul 27 18:17:23 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:17:23 -0300 Subject: [Tig] beautiful suite Message-ID: <900AE500-442D-4D9B-87A1-C9653F80AF48@colorist.org> Got an image upload today of a suite at Milagro Post. Look down toward the bottom of the Facility Table http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable and click on the thumbnail. Work on the Facility Table continues, with Maps for various suite locations, photos, colorist reels. Just send me the information and I'll edit the table, or edit it yourself. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org From carl at stopp.se Tue Jul 28 19:39:55 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:39:55 +0200 Subject: [Tig] ArriLaser vs Cinavator Message-ID: Hi Does anyone have a comment about ArriLaser vs Cinevator? (If you work for a company that owns one, please say so if you comment, so we know:) I´m working on a feature, shot on Red. Post completely done in HD linear. Will have a master on HDSR422. We might not have time to do a ArriLaser-shootout + prints. So we are thinking about using the Cinevator. Either for just making one first "filmfestival"print. Or to make a Cinevator-NEG and then to Prints from that. I know some will say, doing direct to Print is OK due to less generation if I'm only doing ONE print. But to do one print with Cinevator and THEN do a "propper" ArriLaser-neg and do multiple prints from that, would just be to much money for the single first print. Then it would be smarter to do all the prints from the Arri-neg, if we have time. So if anyone has some honest opinions about the quality on Cinevator compared to ArriLaser, I'm very interested. /carl From frank at opticalart.de Tue Jul 28 16:55:54 2009 From: frank at opticalart.de (Frank Hellmann) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:55:54 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Negative developing and ARRILaser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6F1F8A.9080200@opticalart.de> Hi Liao, Liao Zhuodi schrieb: > We got a local Cinelab that they want to change the speed for the negative > going through the soup. Because there is a DI facility complains that their > 4 ArriLasers can not achieve the maximum density on red layer for the 5242 > Kodak stock developing, the maximum red density we talk about is around > 1.96, and they can only achieve 1.91, the ARRI engineer does not know why. > So they negotiate with the Cinelab, the lab slows down the speed by 6 feet > (per second? not sure), so the negative stays longer in the soup than > before, and the overall density goes up. But, at the same time, our > arrilaser is fine, and can achieve the maximum red density on developed > film, which means the Cinelab developing is fine, and our ArriLaser is fine > too. > > My doubts are: > > 1) Does Cinelab have a standard for developing? If so, why our local Cinelab > change the speed according to some clients demand. > Usually Labs try to stick to the "Kodak Norm". The speedchange could also be related to a completely different problem: Color Management. If they do use a CMS setting that is not right for their setup, or none at all, a way to compensate is to tinker with the developing time and temperature. We did this round 2000 to get better results out of the arrilaser when we had no CMS for the recorder. > 2) If the overall density goes up, and i should change the calibration LUT > in my arrilaser to make the 21 step Kodak sweep according to standards, less > laser power can achieve more density, does it mean we can get less grains or > noise on the negative? > Sort of (not being a lab technician), but this will be probably countered by the longer development time and the resulting longer time grains can grow and the increased contrast. So, for a slight difference in time, I would not expect to see a big difference. Be aware that this processing is increasing contrast as well, as opposed to just overall density. > 3) If the negative stay longer in the soup, other than density changes, is > there any other aftermath brought to the negative? > Not that I am aware of, but you might want to check that with the Kodak/Fuji/Agfa... Technicians. Best, Frank... -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- OPTICAL ART Film & Special-Effects GmbH Waterloohain 6-8 Frank Hellmann DI Supervisor 22769 Hamburg frank at opticalart.de http://www.opticalart.de Tel: +49 40 5111051 Fax: +49 40 43169499 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg, Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 384 70 Geschäftsführer: Christian Burgdorff, Harald Lehmann ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Niederlassung Berlin Skalitzer Straße 104 10997 Berlin Niederlassung Frankfurt Hanauer Landstraße 163-171 60314 Frankfurt Niederlassung Halle Mansfelderstrasse 56 06108 Halle ----------------------------------------------------------------------- OPTICAL ART Digital & Film GmbH Graf Adolf Str. 22 Frank Hellmann DI Supervisor 40212 Düsseldorf frank at opticalart.de http://www.opticalart.de Tel: +49 211 828590 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Düsseldorf, Amtsgericht Düsseldorf HRB 38 132 Geschäftsführer: Christian Burgdorff, Harald Lehmann ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From tig at bosti.nl Wed Jul 29 00:09:49 2009 From: tig at bosti.nl (Florentijn Bos|bosti.nl) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:09:49 +0200 Subject: [Tig] ArriLaser vs Cinavator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6F853D.6010903@bosti.nl> Hi Carl, I got quite a bit of experience on recording to both Arrilaser and the Cinevator. I can tell you a bit of my experience, but I will tell you in advance, I never did an butterfly test or any other form of side by side comparison. Companies usually don't feel urged to do so and production usually chooses the cheapest/best option for the production the post-house can offer. Not necessarily evolving from evaluating options closely. However, I do remember seeing a first direct to print (with audio) made by the Cinevator a few years ago and being stunned by the amount of sharpness and colour. This does make sense, since we skip the whole IN - > POS optical steps in the lab. Like you already mentioned though, this is only interesting when doing a festival print, or low quantities. A few years ago when I worked on an animated short there where some issues with the colour management system, resulting in strange (digital) artifacts in some high saturated areas. However this did got resolved by the technicians and I never seen it since. Stuff I'd never seen on the Arrilaser though, the Arri CMS has of course a very long and reliable history. Now, concerning creating negative on the Cinevator vs Arrilaser. On one project I've graded (with Truelight) for the Arrilaser - > AGFA CP30 (common in these areas, and I like it :-) we created a successful Kodak IN and AGFA CP. During duplication however one reel got ripped to pieces and there was no time to wait ~30 hours to create a new IN on the Arrilaser, and then ship it to the duplication facility too! Thus based on my satisfactory results in the past I recommended production to create a IN on the Cinevator. I forwared the AIM details to the facility operating the Cinevator, it took them almost a day to get the AIM identical. But the resulting IN/Print fitted flawless in between the other Arrilaser reels. Now this movie was sourced on 35mm, scanned 4k and recorded 2k (2.35 anamorph). It was colourful comedy high in contrast and saturation. So some of the little details you might have on a more 'traditionally' looking movie might where not there to compare. For my background, I am a freelance colourist doing some DI supervision on occasion. I do regularly freelance for companies who own a Arrilaser but also a company who outsources to the Cinevator. Oh also, the REC709 - > IN/PRINT CMS works good in my experience. Grading in HD space and then from tape to Print gives very nice results on the Cinevator. Hope this helps you, Cheers, Floor Carl Skaff wrote: > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > July 2009: 2210 subscribers. Carl Skaff supports the TIG. > http://reels.colorist.org Colorist Reels > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Facility_Table > ==== > > > Hi > > Does anyone have a comment about ArriLaser vs Cinevator? > (If you work for a company that owns one, please say so if you comment, so we know:) > > I´m working on a feature, shot on Red. Post completely done in HD linear. Will have a master on HDSR422. > We might not have time to do a ArriLaser-shootout + prints. So we are thinking about using the Cinevator. > Either for just making one first "filmfestival"print. Or to make a Cinevator-NEG and then to Prints from that. > > I know some will say, doing direct to Print is OK due to less generation if I'm only doing ONE print. > But to do one print with Cinevator and THEN do a "propper" ArriLaser-neg and do multiple prints from that, would just be to much money for the single first print. Then it would be smarter to do all the prints from the Arri-neg, if we have time. > > So if anyone has some honest opinions about the quality on Cinevator compared to ArriLaser, I'm very interested. > > > > /carl > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > From carl at stopp.se Wed Jul 29 07:55:55 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:55:55 +0200 Subject: [Tig] ArriLaser vs Cinavator In-Reply-To: <4A6F853D.6010903@bosti.nl> References: , <4A6F853D.6010903@bosti.nl> Message-ID: Hi Florentin Thanks for the feedback. As you say with your 35mm film my feature is also not the most "nuanced" look. Being shot on Red with a limited budget/time for lighting, and then graded in HD. It would be nice though to see a butterfly projection of a "Arri Neg>Pos" compared to "Cinevator Neg>Pos" And alos see a direct Print. I'm sure that if mesured the Arri woul be superior, but I wonder what the differences really are when viewed with a box of popcorn in my lap. /carl From james.fancher at ca.rr.com Wed Jul 29 17:37:55 2009 From: james.fancher at ca.rr.com (James Fancher) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:37:55 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Cinevator vs ARRI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have seen the butterfly test with excellant color science and the prints were indistinguishable. Your results will depend more on who's driving than the gear. Fancher mobile From wim at filmmore.nl Wed Jul 29 17:24:58 2009 From: wim at filmmore.nl (Wim van Slooten) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:24:58 +0200 Subject: [Tig] ArriLaser vs Cinavator Message-ID: Hi Carl, The Cinevator is perfect for either direct prints or IMneg. Especially when you need a few prints, the direct print option is very sensible. We have done a lot of film out with Nordisk Copenhagen's Cinevator. Direct print and IMneg. The quality is very good especially since Nordisk is able to give you a print that is very close to your HDCAM- SR tape. Don't know how many copies you need, so it's best to get in touch with them. Filmmore doesn't have a Cinevator or an ArriLaser, so we're unbiased. cheers, wim Filmmore Amsterdam Entrepôtdok 66, 1018 AD Amsterdam, The Netherlands t: +31(0)205309696, f: +31(0)205309697 wim at filmmore.nl http://www.filmmore.nl From kabanbenedek at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 13:45:59 2009 From: kabanbenedek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Benedek_Kab=E1n?=) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:45:59 +0200 Subject: [Tig] RES: Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: <3D64AE31E5FD42478D8D77D34C986DBF@flight4> References: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002f01ca0504$94789920$bd69cb60$@com.br> <3D64AE31E5FD42478D8D77D34C986DBF@flight4> Message-ID: I had an almost-cried story from Hungary. Two years ago I was finishing a feature film with my clients (dp and director). It was a very intense week's end, the grading was 6 days 12 hour a day and we were sitting there on christmas eve, because the project had to be finished that night and that day I was grading for 16 hours that feature. And in the last two hours the dp (who was sleeping all week) suddenly woken up and wanted to change the whole concept what I was working for a week! I asked for apology, went out to the bathroom, hit the wall, almost cried and tried to get myself together. It was only 3 minutes, went back with a smile and finished the project in two hours. But in that 3 minutes I was the most lonely person on the planet. Ken, could I ask which feature was that 1.5 hour session? 2009/7/16 Ken Robinson > 8 hrs to grade a full feature? You were lucky, Obadiah... In Hungary they > gave me 1.5 hrs to grade a complete movie.... I think in that time it is > actually possible to make it worse than if you just transfer it with one > setting! > > Ken Robinson > > But still, there are moments when you just > > wish to disappear. Like when you are told to grade a full feature film in > > just about 8 hours... -- Benedek Kabán digital film colorist mail at kabanbenedek.com www.kabanbenedek.com From jamworks at earthlink.net Fri Jul 31 19:57:21 2009 From: jamworks at earthlink.net (John A. Mozzer) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:57:21 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Subscriber Request/About Myself Message-ID: <4A733E91.5020604@earthlink.net> I discovered The TIG upon searching for information about the Cineglyph HD telecine. I am not a professional in this field. Recently, I had over eight hours of my dad's silent regular 8mm films transferred to DV via Rank Cintel, using a service in Northridge. I am receiving one-to-one training in Final Cut Pro at the Apple Store. And I'm uploading clips of the transfers to YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/mozzermemories I want to educate myself about scanning technologies that have replaced Rank Cintel, and may be interested in having some of the footage scanned again using the newer technology. That is why I have requested a subscription to TIG. Thank you, John A. Mozzer Los Angeles, CA From rob at colorist.org Fri Jul 31 22:17:14 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:17:14 -0300 Subject: [Tig] RES: Have you ever cried during a session... In-Reply-To: References: <19799579.1247613436795.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002f01ca0504$94789920$bd69cb60$@com.br> <3D64AE31E5FD42478D8D77D34C986DBF@flight4> Message-ID: <6CCBB511-A0DF-44AC-BBF5-65AC94A3352E@colorist.org> On Jul 31, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Benedek Kabán wrote: > It was only 3 minutes, went back with a smile and finished the > project in two hours. But in that 3 minutes I was the most lonely > person on > the planet. The story is perfect, even to the point of not disclosing what would come in its sequel: how did you manage to appease the DP and Director both? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org