From rob at colorist.org Tue Dec 1 00:04:16 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:04:16 -0200 Subject: [Tig] todd-ao in santa monica Message-ID: <711C2327-95B2-4EED-BB08-A6259E586AFA@colorist.org> http://au.sys-con.com/node/1203708 -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Dec 1 19:05:32 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:05:32 -0800 Subject: [Tig] EECO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >EECO! Electronic Engineering of Calif.. created a "time Code" based >electronic editing system. The EECO code was a Amplitude modulated >audio tone that numbered the frames of video. I worked with this >system on Ampex VR200b's as early as 1970. I saw my first time code generator in the spring of 1971 at Editel in Montreal. It was 4 RU high, weighed about 30 lbs., and the display was nixie tubes. No one at the facility knew what it was for - it had been dropped off by CDL as a prototype of some sort. We used it as a clock in the machine room. That same day, I watched Larry Brisson literally cut quad tape with the ferrous fluid and a splicer. Then we rubbed some sticks together, started a fire, and cooked the wild game we had caught for lunch. A week later, Ampex showed up to install Editel's first Editec editing system. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From DCorbitt77 at comcast.net Wed Dec 2 10:26:18 2009 From: DCorbitt77 at comcast.net (Dave Corbitt) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 05:26:18 -0500 Subject: [Tig] LUTs for Plasma Monitors In-Reply-To: <640e4b5f-0bd9-43be-bdbe-50b7f8049fcc@laserpacific.com> References: <640e4b5f-0bd9-43be-bdbe-50b7f8049fcc@laserpacific.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all for the good info on LUTs with Plasma monitors. Dave Corbitt HBO Studios NYC From jeffcee at shaw.ca Wed Dec 2 10:58:40 2009 From: jeffcee at shaw.ca (Jeff Christopherson) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:58:40 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Backlight needed. Brussels Message-ID: <26EE2EEB-DB6F-48EF-9838-A5288D8FE68F@shaw.ca> Dear TIG'ers, We are in need of a colour reference backlight for our telecine bay here in Brussels. Any source on the continent or in the UK would be welcome. I'm looking for a company to come forward, or for someone to provide a reference. Please respond offline. Many thanks in advance, Jeff Christopherson. O.B.O. Galaxy Studios, Brussels. From prberg2 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 2 06:58:38 2009 From: prberg2 at yahoo.com (Peter Berg) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 22:58:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <227511.17467.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, Hope you had a good holiday weekend. Quick question regarding lighting in a color grading suite. If you had to choose between these 2 halogen bulbs.. which ones would you use in your room? The Eiko Solux 35w 4700k, or the Ushio Whitestar 50w 6500k? I would think that the 6500k would be better for a grading atmosphere but are they good to use throught the room? I had heard that doing 6500k in the entire room does not make for the best 'client' experience. Would either of these bulbs be close enough to daylight that they would not alter the grading too much? I would like to have a nice neutral room, but also an inviting room which doesn't feel too cool. Is that even possible. I could put an Ideal-Lume behind my monitor for some 6500k backlight? Thanks for your thoughts, Peter B From rob at cinelab.com Tue Dec 1 18:33:02 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 13:33:02 -0500 Subject: [Tig] LUTs for Plasma Monitors In-Reply-To: <640e4b5f-0bd9-43be-bdbe-50b7f8049fcc@laserpacific.com> References: <640e4b5f-0bd9-43be-bdbe-50b7f8049fcc@laserpacific.com> Message-ID: > Some issues: > > 1) It may seem logical to use the DVI output of the LUT box thus negating the need for the $1400 Plasma HDSDI module. Unfortunately The Panasonic DVI input blanks an extra line. The HDSDI input is WYSIWYG. Isn't the DVI a 8-bit feed? What about the display port model? will it feed a HDMI at 10 bits? -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From carl at stopp.se Wed Dec 2 14:16:44 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:16:44 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ With CRTs impossible to get these days, I know many of us are using Plasma Monitors but how do you deal with the larger than standard color gamut of these devices? Are you using external LUT boxes of some kind to pull the color gamut in to Rec 709? If so what do you recommend that works in a dual link HD-SDI environment and does not cost a fortune? Thanks Dave Corbitt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Speaking about larger gammut in flatpanle displays... made me think about gamma aswell When I'm trying a Barco, Eizo or whatever and compare it to my old Sony CRT BMV I always has to leave the calibrated Rec709-setting and adjust the gamma. I think it is due to that the Sony CRT isn't Rec709... so when we all change over to flatpanels, what should we do? Set them to Rec709 och match it to our old CRTs? How have you Plasma-boys done? Are you Rec709 or did you match a BVM? /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 2 From simonastbury at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 14:47:41 2009 From: simonastbury at hotmail.com (simon astbury) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:47:41 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: > Speaking about larger gammut in flatpanle displays... made me think about gamma aswell > > When I'm trying a Barco, Eizo or whatever and compare it to my old Sony CRT BMV I always has to leave the calibrated Rec709-setting and adjust the gamma. > I think it is due to that the Sony CRT isn't Rec709... so when we all change over to flatpanels, what should we do? Set them to Rec709 och match it to our old CRTs? > > How have you Plasma-boys done? Are you Rec709 or did you match a BVM? > /carl I use a Cinetal Cinemage 10bit LCD panel, it has an inbuilt LUT generator which I leave on rec709 gamut controlled. That has been working well so for. As in Europe we are getting towards the majority of people watching TV on LCD or Plasma ,I guess matching to a BVM is becoming redundant ?? _________________________________________________________________ Got more than one Hotmail account? Save time by linking them together http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/ From dlt at earthlink.net Wed Dec 2 15:27:53 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:27:53 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: <227511.17467.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <227511.17467.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B168779.6040909@earthlink.net> Peter Berg wrote: > I had heard that doing 6500k in the entire room does not make for the best 'client' experience. Would either of these bulbs be close enough to daylight that they would not alter the grading too much? I would like to have a nice neutral room, but also an inviting room which doesn't feel too cool. Is that even possible. I could put an Ideal-Lume behind my monitor for some 6500k backlight? A halogen source has a wide spectrum and will feel a lot more comfortable than a fluorescent with the same nominal color temperature. Try it out. Also, it doesn't hurt to have a mixture of sources if they don't shift the overall illumination of natural objects that the eye/brain wants to perceive as neutral. David Tosh From e.chalaron at xtra.co.nz Wed Dec 2 18:45:55 2009 From: e.chalaron at xtra.co.nz (Edouard Chalaron) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:45:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] LUTs for Plasma Monitors Message-ID: <457747.52366.qm@web96012.mail.aue.yahoo.com> Hello all DVI is 8 bit only, some GPU have a 10 bits HDMI output, nvidia to name one. Not sure about other brands, most probably yes for major brands. Cheers Edouard > Isn't the DVI a 8-bit feed? What about the display port > model? will it feed a HDMI at 10 bits? > > -Rob- > > Robert Houllahan > rob at cinelab.com > Colorist-Director > www.cinelab.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From enigma at turingstudio.com Wed Dec 2 18:59:08 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:59:08 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: <227511.17467.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <227511.17467.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7AED503A-7EEA-4C01-9A30-7F0CA1730B4E@turingstudio.com> 6500k whitestars for the colorist work area (or just task lamps, keep in mind your backlight will provide some indirect illumination) I prefer 4700 (or even, gasp, 3500k) for the client area. It's horrible to sit on a couch under 6500k light. Try it. _a -- alexander black turing: web applications colorflow: digital post 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / direct root at turingstudio.com http://www.turingstudio.com http://www.colorflow.it From rob at colorist.org Wed Dec 2 19:02:02 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:02:02 -0200 Subject: [Tig] December events Message-ID: Any companies or factions with events or parties in December are welcome to post them to the TIG wiki calendar. There's a Soiree from DV on the books for Dec. 9 in LA, see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main click on the event for details, and to get a map and street view. There's also a SMPTE Hollywood Section movie screening, "The Princess and the Frog" combined with charity benefit, see the URL above for December 12th. Here's hoping there will be some extra effort this year to help the hungry and poor. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From steve at veralith.com Wed Dec 2 19:14:56 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:14:56 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Thanks for the survey responses Message-ID: <3DA0A82A-0505-4A4F-93B5-3B3B7B7D22DC@veralith.com> Thanks to everyone who responded to the survey. The names - from the people who included their name - have been passed on to Rob, so they can be credited for helping support the TIG. I would love to get more responses. The people who responded completed the survey very quickly and seemed to have enjoyed responding. The URL to respond to the survey is at the top of all emails from the TIG for the last week or so. Thanks to the following folks who responded. A donation has been made in your name to support the TIG. Michael Sandness-Splice here Prathvish hegde/ futureworks hany halim. Cinepost Jarni Susiluoto, National Audiovisual Archive John Tissavary, Hi Ground Media / Luna Cie Inc. Ken Metzker/Reliance MediaWorks Ken Robinson Clark Bierbaum, Charlotte, NC USA Primary 3 David Koubík/Universal Production Partners Prague Westwind Media Arturo Aquise Shane Dillon - Lightpress, Seattle Jose M Villavicencio / freelancer colorist Michael Bitetti Rogério Moraes David Dean Westpoint TV London Josh Petok Neal Kassner CBS News/NY Colm Forde, R.T.E Archive, Dublin. Ron Sudul. Nice shoes Grace McKay, Electric Pictures Frank Hellmann - Optical Art From jpo at prestodigital.ca Wed Dec 2 19:20:38 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:20:38 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: <7AED503A-7EEA-4C01-9A30-7F0CA1730B4E@turingstudio.com> References: <227511.17467.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7AED503A-7EEA-4C01-9A30-7F0CA1730B4E@turingstudio.com> Message-ID: <2A2132DB-B753-4017-848F-73D6120C2395@prestodigital.ca> > > I prefer 4700 (or even, gasp, 3500k) for the client area. It's > horrible to sit on a couch under 6500k light. Try it. > I accept this is a big, cheap, cheat, but... I really like the OTT series of fluoro-based illuminants. It looks good on paper, easy on the eyes, and is actually recommended for Seasonally Affected Disorder therapy, and is somewhere in the vicinity of D65, I think... and is extolled as a tool for artists, etc. http://www.ottlite.com/t-WhyOttLite.aspx I have no affilitation with OTT-Lite other than as a user. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From bobfesta at mac.com Wed Dec 2 21:30:49 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:30:49 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: <2A2132DB-B753-4017-848F-73D6120C2395@prestodigital.ca> References: <227511.17467.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7AED503A-7EEA-4C01-9A30-7F0CA1730B4E@turingstudio.com> <2A2132DB-B753-4017-848F-73D6120C2395@prestodigital.ca> Message-ID: Ok here is my contribution. I've been using these MR16 compatible LED's for a couple of years now. Very neutral, low heat. I use them with traditional tracks and fixtures. http://www.optiled.com/ProductMainPage.aspx About $60 USD ea. Best, Bob Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV From catfishwood at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 22:47:16 2009 From: catfishwood at hotmail.com (Ian Wood) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:47:16 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are there any 16mm film projectors out there with a toothless/clawless mechanism that moves the film through with no worries about broken sprockets, shrunken film, or causing damage in general? I have been told that they exist, but have not found any details/model #'s, etc. Thanks a lot. -Ian Wood (filmmaker) 504-496-7423 From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Dec 3 05:36:07 2009 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:36:07 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89CC5154-0BB6-4479-9549-6545D62DBFD9@tedlangdell.com> Hi, Ian, On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Ian Wood wrote: > Are there any 16mm film projectors out there with a > toothless/clawless mechanism that moves the film through with no > worries about broken sprockets, shrunken film, or causing damage in > general? I have been told that they exist, but have not found any > details/model #'s, etc. > > Thanks a lot. > > -Ian Wood > (filmmaker) > 504-496-7423 I don't know of any 16mm projectors (for projecting film on a screen) that have no sprockets AND no pull down claws... but modern telecines— devices used to transfer film to video, digital signals or data generally do not have pull down claws. Most use capstan drive and have only one sprocket—a free-wheeling non- driven one for timing information to the electronics. I represent such a product from Germany. That's the same approach—Capstan drive and only a free-wheeling sprocket—that you'll find on high-end telecines ranging from vintage Rank Cintel flying spot scanners and Bosch Line Array CCD FDL-60's 90's and Quadras into today's variations using flying spot, line array and newer sensor technology. If you check this Wikipedia web page, you'll get an idea of how these machines work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine This link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Telecine_hardware takes you directly to the hardware section. I represent the company mentioned in this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Pulsed_LED.2FTriggered_Three_CCD_Camera_system The new 8mm/Super8 high definition unit uses NO sprocket for timing, as a new electronic system that's laser based provides that information while providing splice detection and picture steadiness correction. My German company made projectors with polygon mechanisms instead of rotating shutters and pulldown claws at one time—Albrecht (or MWA) PB51's, if I recall correctly—for use at high speed in motion picture dubbing and mixing theaters. These were based on the MB51 magnetic film transport. A bit of Googling failed to turn up what you were looking for. It may be out there, and possibly, someone on the TIG may have some ideas. You might also ask on the Association of Moving Image Archivists list: http://www.amianet.org/participate/listserv.php Member Leo Enticknap is very knowledgeable about mainstream and obscure film items and may have suggestions. Hope this is helpful. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 ted at flashscan8.us From adelle at laserpacific.com Thu Dec 3 19:39:40 2009 From: adelle at laserpacific.com (Andy Delle) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:39:40 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? Message-ID: <5e553c43-8aac-4624-aad5-fa9a34570339@laserpacific.com> The RCA FR-16 was a late model (for RCA) Telecine class projector that used a large, 3 inch as I remember, sprocket drive wheel. It was based loosely on the FR-35. It did not use a claw. It was a miserable machine, never worked reliably. It had the servo complexity of a VTR but poorly designed. Fortunately in 1982, 16mm spots were getting very rare. Andy Delle Laser Pacific Media Corporation From grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk Thu Dec 3 20:07:14 2009 From: grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 20:07:14 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Evertz 5500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <96645BF0E1BF44CB9D918F8FF25FF539@Sprocket> Has anyone got an Evertz 5500 reader manual in pdf that they could send me. thanks Graham Collett Visible Sprockets Ltd www.visible-sprockets.co.uk Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk From rob at cinelab.com Thu Dec 3 20:03:15 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 15:03:15 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: <89CC5154-0BB6-4479-9549-6545D62DBFD9@tedlangdell.com> References: <89CC5154-0BB6-4479-9549-6545D62DBFD9@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <370357AE-2D77-40B9-83B2-F2A4CD839224@cinelab.com> Not that it is a projector but the P+S Steady-Frame 2k scanner we have does not have a sprocket and the capstan is stainless steel without rubber... They told me that the transport was made by Kinoton.. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk Thu Dec 3 22:50:31 2009 From: grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:50:31 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Evertz 5500 In-Reply-To: <96645BF0E1BF44CB9D918F8FF25FF539@Sprocket> Message-ID: Many thanks to all who answered my call for the Evertz manual . Graham Collett Visible Sprockets Ltd www.visible-sprockets.co.uk Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk From rob at cinelab.com Thu Dec 3 22:27:09 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:27:09 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: References: <89CC5154-0BB6-4479-9549-6545D62DBFD9@tedlangdell.com> <370357AE-2D77-40B9-83B2-F2A4CD839224@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <9680AC6B-F2C4-448A-85DF-4DF2778A3ACC@cinelab.com> On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Andreas Wideroe wrote: > Robert, > Just out of curiosity: How's the Steadyframe working out for you? > Happy with it? Pros/cons? The machine is till in Beta (V 0.8.2.1) and we have been torture testing in for a while now. The concept is very good and the transport is excellent. We are getting around the full speed of 4.5fps although that was just dialed back a bit due to a bug/host computer issue in 35mm. I am mostly very very happy with the pictures it makes and the perf-recognition registration system is getting better and it was not bad to begin with. I think it is a great modular machine which is very modern and produces great pictures pretty quickly I am eagerly anticipating the release version of the software and a eventual doubling or tripling of speed. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From rob at cinelab.com Fri Dec 4 00:09:37 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:09:37 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: References: <89CC5154-0BB6-4479-9549-6545D62DBFD9@tedlangdell.com> <370357AE-2D77-40B9-83B2-F2A4CD839224@cinelab.com> <9680AC6B-F2C4-448A-85DF-4DF2778A3ACC@cinelab.com> Message-ID: <2F0642F8-CDFD-40C5-9D56-3D6A79530DD9@cinelab.com> Whoops I do not have a stake a claim nor a controlling financial interest in P+S..... sorry to forget to state that, their machine just works well and works well for us... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk Fri Dec 4 14:35:32 2009 From: grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:35:32 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2505FEDB39324C1A8CC575B45EA5CDD4@Sprocket> MR16's are 5200k ..you get an automatic californian glow :) Graham Collett Visible Sprockets Ltd www.visible-sprockets.co.uk Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Bob Festa Sent: 02 December 2009 21:31 To: Joe Owens Cc: tig at colorist.org Group Subject: Re: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. Help Steve Hullfish and Support the TIG, details: http://tinyurl.com/y9sf5s6 ==== Ok here is my contribution. I've been using these MR16 compatible LED's for a couple of years now. Very neutral, low heat. I use them with traditional tracks and fixtures. http://www.optiled.com/ProductMainPage.aspx About $60 USD ea. Best, Bob Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From dcorbitt77 at comcast.net Fri Dec 4 17:50:04 2009 From: dcorbitt77 at comcast.net (dcorbitt77 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 17:50:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: <199850068.11560411259948789781.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <247440469.11561681259949004872.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Actually, MR16 is just a basing standard for low voltage lamps. If you look around, you can get all kinds of color temperature versions and different beam spread designs, with and without a built in cover glass. Until recently, all MR16's were halogen lamps, usually 20 and 50 watt versions available. Nowadays, several manufacturers are now offering LED versions, some dimmable, some with good CRI (up to 94 CRI), some not so good CRI (around 75). Also various color temperature versions are coming on line from 2800 Kelvin to 10,000 Kelvin. The LED lamps that use 7 watts are equivalent in Lumens to a 50 Watt Halogen. Happy hunting. Dave Corbitt HBO Studios NYC From bobfesta at mac.com Fri Dec 4 19:19:20 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:19:20 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite In-Reply-To: <247440469.11561681259949004872.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <247440469.11561681259949004872.JavaMail.root@sz0137a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <515A7CBC-6711-4BEC-81BA-7747C995C229@mac.com> Thanks Dave, You saved me a great deal of explaining. One last caveat, many of these lamps are not yet dimmable, In a jiffy, I've used a few layers of ND gel inside the lamp housing. Bob Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV On Dec 4, 2009, at 9:50 AM, dcorbitt77 at comcast.net wrote: > Actually, MR16 is just a basing standard for low voltage lamps. If you look around, you can get all kinds of color temperature versions and different beam spread designs, with and without a built in cover glass. Until recently, all MR16's were halogen lamps, usually 20 and 50 watt versions available. Nowadays, several manufacturers are now offering LED versions, some dimmable, some with good CRI (up to 94 CRI), some not so good CRI (around 75). Also various color temperature versions are coming on line from 2800 Kelvin to 10,000 Kelvin. The LED lamps that use 7 watts are equivalent in Lumens to a 50 Watt Halogen. Happy hunting. > > Dave Corbitt > HBO Studios > NYC > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Collett" > To: "Bob Festa" , "Joe Owens" > Cc: tig at colorist.org > Sent: Friday, December 4, 2009 9:35:32 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite > > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Help Steve Hullfish and Support the TIG, details: http://tinyurl.com/y9sf5s6 > ==== > > MR16's are 5200k ..you get an automatic californian glow :) > > Graham Collett > Visible Sprockets Ltd > www.visible-sprockets.co.uk > Sprockets(telecine) Ltd > www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On > Behalf Of Bob Festa > Sent: 02 December 2009 21:31 > To: Joe Owens > Cc: tig at colorist.org Group > Subject: Re: [Tig] Which lamps in a color suite > > > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Help Steve Hullfish and Support the TIG, details: > http://tinyurl.com/y9sf5s6 ==== > > Ok here is my contribution. > > I've been using these MR16 compatible LED's for a couple of years now. > Very neutral, low heat. I use them with traditional tracks and fixtures. > > http://www.optiled.com/ProductMainPage.aspx > > About $60 USD ea. > > Best, > > Bob > > Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 > Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit NewHat.TV > Write bob at NewHat.TV > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From dlt at earthlink.net Sat Dec 5 18:17:37 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:17:37 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: <5e553c43-8aac-4624-aad5-fa9a34570339@laserpacific.com> References: <5e553c43-8aac-4624-aad5-fa9a34570339@laserpacific.com> Message-ID: <4B1AA3C1.4090203@earthlink.net> Andy Delle wrote: > ... used a large, 3 inch as I remember, sprocket drive wheel... The servo system drove the capstan to provide the intermittent motion required to pull down the next frame and position it in the aperture as required for the camera to acquire the frame - 24 times per second! Talk about doomed to failure! No aspersions cast on my former RCA colleagues, but, what were they smoking? (besides motor drive amps!) David Tosh (RCA Tech Alert a long time ago) From mfw at musictrax.com Sat Dec 5 23:51:32 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:51:32 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: <4B1AA3C1.4090203@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 12/5/09 10:17 AM, "David Tosh" wrote on the TIG list: > No aspersions cast on my former RCA colleagues, but, what were they > smoking? (besides motor drive amps!) >------------------------------------------------------------< That, plus the infamous 16mm cartridge machine RCA demoed at NAB, I think in the early 1980s. I took one look at that and said, "oh, that's never gonna work." This was kind of a "35mm slide carousel"-type projector, only with little boxes with short rolls of 16mm film for TV spots. I hope RCA never sold any of those. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA From bobfesta at mac.com Sun Dec 6 03:27:17 2009 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:27:17 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Victorias Secret Message-ID: All, Here is a great example of a high contrast look that I'll say is reflective of the HD/SD Video look. Super strong blacks, seared whites, great saturation...one of my favorite looks. Very Lin. http://insidetv.aol.com/2009/12/04/michael-bay-victorias-secret-commercial/ My question is, in todays data centric environments, most of us work in a wider softer Log space. What tools and techniques do you all use to get this steep linear curve in Log space? I generally abuse a curve layer to straighten out the look. Michael Bay was responsible for the piece, I imagine that Stefan at CO3 has some inside knowledge on whether this was a Lin video or Log data job. Bob Festa Send 1819 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404 Call 310.401.2220 Fax 310.401.2224 Visit www.NewHat.TV Write bob at NewHat.TV From david at dcvideo.com Sun Dec 6 03:36:27 2009 From: david at dcvideo.com (David C. Crosthwait) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:36:27 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091205193627.uxkqwqp008cg0w0c@webmail.dcvideo.com> Marc, When I started at KCOP in Hollywood, they had the only 16mm cartridge machine I'd seen outside of NAB. And it was still in operation when I left in 1979. It was paired up with a TK 28. It recall that it chewed up film at times. Wasn't nearly as friendly to commercials as the ACR 25 videotape cart machine, the true "cash register" for the station. David Crosthwait DC Video Archived Media Transfer & Re-mastering Services 177 West Magnolia Blvd. Burbank, CA. 91502 818-563-1073 818-563-1177 (fax) 818-285-9942 (cell) DCFWTX at AOL.COM DAVID at DCVIDEO.COM WWW.DCVIDEO.COM Quoting Marc Wielage : > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > Help Steve Hullfish and Support the TIG, details: http://tinyurl.com/y9sf5s6 > ==== > > On 12/5/09 10:17 AM, "David Tosh" wrote on the TIG list: > >> No aspersions cast on my former RCA colleagues, but, what were they >> smoking? (besides motor drive amps!) >> ------------------------------------------------------------< > > That, plus the infamous 16mm cartridge machine RCA demoed at NAB, I think in > the early 1980s. I took one look at that and said, "oh, that's never gonna > work." > > This was kind of a "35mm slide carousel"-type projector, only with little > boxes with short rolls of 16mm film for TV spots. I hope RCA never sold any > of those. > > --Marc Wielage > Cinesound/LA > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Sun Dec 6 09:21:31 2009 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 03:21:31 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: <9680AC6B-F2C4-448A-85DF-4DF2778A3ACC@cinelab.com> References: <89CC5154-0BB6-4479-9549-6545D62DBFD9@tedlangdell.com> <370357AE-2D77-40B9-83B2-F2A4CD839224@cinelab.com> <9680AC6B-F2C4-448A-85DF-4DF2778A3ACC@cinelab.com> Message-ID: On Dec 3, 2009, at 4:27 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > We are getting around the full speed of 4.5fps Robert: Assume that is at 4K -- how fast is it at 2K? Best, Jeff From rob at colorist.org Sun Dec 6 16:22:20 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:22:20 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Historic Tracking Multifacet Prism System (Swinson) Message-ID: <49638B1F-9D52-4A55-8AA8-639074188C20@colorist.org> Peter Swinson sent us some photos and explanation of an early Cintel prism system. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Sprocketless/Clawless_Projectors Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin-founder rob at colorist.org From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Sun Dec 6 16:31:52 2009 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 16:31:52 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Historic Tracking Multifacet Prism System (Swinson) In-Reply-To: <49638B1F-9D52-4A55-8AA8-639074188C20@colorist.org> References: <49638B1F-9D52-4A55-8AA8-639074188C20@colorist.org> Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6C0D9@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> It produced some of the worst pictures known to man also. ;) On the plus side, it could run at any speed, optically blending frames. Unfortunately, it was also possible for it to run at about the right speed, but not actually frame locked. See my article here http://www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite/threedoctors.htm for a method we had to invent to get around this problem when restoring an early seventies 'Doctor Who' story for which the physical film inserts no longer exists. Steve Roberts Senior Post Production Engineer >BBC Studios and Post Production > >020 857 64556 >Room 3501 Television Centre, Wood Lane, London, W12 7RJ > www.bbcstudiosandpostproduction.com BBC Studios and Post Production Ltd, Registered Office Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ, Registered Number 3593793 England From dlt at earthlink.net Sun Dec 6 16:42:30 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 08:42:30 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B1BDEF6.2090300@earthlink.net> Marc Wielage wrote: > ...I hope RCA never sold any of those. I saw one in operation in a TV station in St. Louis. I was there converting an RCA TH-100 to do split audio editing. (Don't ask...) David Tosh From Tom at tgt.org Sun Dec 6 18:13:12 2009 From: Tom at tgt.org (Tom Tcimpidis) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:13:12 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector? In-Reply-To: <4B1BDEF6.2090300@earthlink.net> References: <4B1BDEF6.2090300@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002501ca769f$c66cd7e0$534687a0$@org> Back in the early 70s, when I was Engineering Supervisor at VCI Studios in Hollywood, we had a 16mm projector on our film chain (a Plumbicon TK28) that was clawless and variable speed. I can't for the life of me think of the make now but it was built by a company in Woodland Hills. It used some sophisticated electronics (for the time) to achieve the ability to accomplish this and also required constant tweeking else you would wind up with an image that rained either up or down. (I do remember cursing at it on more than one occasion...) But it was gentle on film and it could run at from 1/4 to 48 frames per second, both forward and backward. Tom From tvf.cvb at bluewin.ch Mon Dec 7 13:48:41 2009 From: tvf.cvb at bluewin.ch (Claude tvf) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:48:41 +0100 Subject: [Tig] [Fwd: Re: Sepmag and telecine 2007] Message-ID: <4B1D07B9.1000609@bluewin.ch> Hi Andreas We are in Switzerland and we get about 8 reel sepmag 8 mm to read. We know a machine who can do this we are going to collect it and repair it to do our job. If your customer is still waiting to do this job let him know please. Best regards Claude von Bueren www.tvf.ch From rob at colorist.org Mon Dec 7 17:09:27 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:09:27 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Wanted Engineer London Message-ID: <8A7449A8-94F6-4F31-B398-EF4CB2026974@colorist.org> new on the TIG classifieds at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Wanted, Imaging Engineer, London http://tinyurl.com/yhzj7dn -- other current ads-- Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor, Consultant, Manager. Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer Adam Halasz colourist Luciano Martins, Jr. Colorist/Assistant Colorist Drake Conrad, DI Colorist, Digital Film Supervisor Dave Larson: Telecine/Facility Engineer Telecine Room for Sale FULL SUITE (including Telecine & Da Vinci 2k Plus) For Immediate Sale Autodesk Flame v2009, Complete System For Sale 1-Year Old Aaton Keylink for Sale For sale GATES Spirit Datacine for sale. Recently taken out of service in excellent condition. Wanted, Engineer, New York City Wanted, Ursa 1 Manual Northlight One Scanner 16mm gate for Arriscan needed -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From steve at veralith.com Mon Dec 7 23:23:50 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:23:50 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Recently found this shorts site Message-ID: <53D265DD-023D-4385-97BA-A7DA48FE73B3@veralith.com> Just found this site. There are some nice shorts on here. http://shortsbay.com/category/comedy I have no affiliation with this site. Just thought y'all might enjoy some free entertainment. Steve Hullfish From lawrence.towers at nyu.edu Tue Dec 8 02:05:51 2009 From: lawrence.towers at nyu.edu (Lawrence Towers) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 21:05:51 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Clawless projector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bd0abb31b80d.4b1d6e2f@mail.nyu.edu> If someone finds anything like this I am interested. We want to build a few simple low cost txfer systems for our students to use. I have used modified projectors in conjunction with iidc cameras with very acceptable results. (We only need 960 x 720, or 1440 1080 res for B&W reversal film.) However they are projectors, not suitable for daily knocking around by students. We don't need better image quality. We just need a better transport system ( Or for someone to develop something for ~$20k that will give us the results we need.) ---Larry From paul at cinelicious.tv Tue Dec 8 23:25:28 2009 From: paul at cinelicious.tv (Paul Korver) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:25:28 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Slightly OT - Media Tracking & Labeling Message-ID: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> Hi All, This is more of a post-house (vault/mailroom) question than a colorist question but since most of you work in/for post houses I thought I'd get some good responses here. Media Labeling: Anyone have a smart way to create company logo-ed D-Beta, DVCAM, HDCAM etc. labels? Right now we're just using our printer and cutting-to- size with a paper cutter which could be greatly improved upon. Asset Tracking: Are there any asset management systems (barcode etc.) people like or could refer me to? Thanks! Paul Korver www.cinelicious.tv paul(at)cinelicious(dot)tv From cnoellert at gmail.com Wed Dec 9 05:16:24 2009 From: cnoellert at gmail.com (Christopher Noellert) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 21:16:24 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Slightly OT - Media Tracking & Labeling In-Reply-To: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> References: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: Would check out Farmers Wife, Paul. More than asset managent... but will cover your label printing and a ton more. It was writen for online and telecine houses in mind. I do not work for Farmers although I do use the products... Best, Chris From erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com Wed Dec 9 05:31:08 2009 From: erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 21:31:08 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Slightly OT - Media Tracking & Labeling In-Reply-To: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> References: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: At Modern we have preprinted labels setup on multiple dotmatrix printers. Our workorders are also printed out on carboncopy dotmatrix printers ( yeah environment!). At boutiques I've worked at in the past we usually purchased the necessary labels and had them preprinted with company branding - sometimes just using supplied templates and laser printing or digital offset printing. If you have labels whomever does any of your other print material ( cards and such) should be able to set that up. HDSR, HDCAM, digi and beta are all the same sizes- labels and jcards DVCAM and D5 are different. My wife is a DP so I had a stamp made for her so she can brand on the spot - tapes for clients, DVD reels, etc... I also use a DYMO label printer for things that we don't have the correct labels for. Asset management is/was a COBOL (seriously) system. Its pretty impressive though it can track every stop an element has made inside/ outside the facility. I'm curious on what others are using as well. Erik 323-316-3731 --- If you understand everything, you must be misinformed. - Proverb, (Japanese) From erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com Wed Dec 9 17:41:35 2009 From: erik at monkeyswithchopstix.com (Erik Hansen) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:41:35 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Slightly OT - Media Tracking & Labeling In-Reply-To: References: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: Sorry I forgot to sign this... Erik Hansen Modern VideoFilm Datalab/Data/VOD ehansen at mvfinc.com --- If you understand everything, you must be misinformed. - Proverb, (Japanese) On Dec 8, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Erik Hansen wrote: > Asset management is/was a COBOL (seriously) system. Its pretty > impressive though it can track every stop an element has made inside/ > outside the facility. I'm curious on what others are using as well. > > Erik > 323-316-3731 From rob at colorist.org Wed Dec 9 20:53:42 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:53:42 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Senior Colorist position Message-ID: <4D8C99EF-8240-459E-98B7-9549AA5BF9DB@colorist.org> Senior Colorist position at major regional post production facility. Must be familiar with daVinci, Lustre and FCP Color. Minimum 5 years experience working with feature and commercial clients. Must be comfortable with learning new software programs as well as broadcast video hardware. Knowledge of film, filmstocks and camera technology required. Looking for individual passionate about color, image and DI processes. Candidate should be comfortable with community outreach and development. Please reply with resume and reel. http://www.mandy.com/1/jobs3.cfm?v=36139298 -- other current ads-- Jeff Christopherson. Digital Film Engineer, D.I. Supervisor, Consultant, Manager. Rob Lingelbach, Colorist, Consultant Jim Mann, Freelance Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist Stuart Blake Jones - Freelance Colorist-Consultant-Instructor-Writer Adam Halasz colourist Luciano Martins, Jr. Colorist/Assistant Colorist Drake Conrad, DI Colorist, Digital Film Supervisor Dave Larson: Telecine/Facility Engineer Telecine Room for Sale FULL SUITE (including Telecine & Da Vinci 2k Plus) For Immediate Sale Autodesk Flame v2009, Complete System For Sale 1-Year Old Aaton Keylink for Sale For sale GATES Spirit Datacine for sale. Recently taken out of service in excellent condition. Wanted, Imaging Engineer, London Wanted, Engineer, New York City Wanted, Ursa 1 Manual Northlight One Scanner 16mm gate for Arriscan needed -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From panisset at gmail.com Wed Dec 9 20:54:57 2009 From: panisset at gmail.com (Jean-Francois Panisset) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:54:57 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Slightly OT - Media Tracking & Labeling In-Reply-To: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> References: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: <2d4760ac0912091254j3bad603bjd8ea370b59b98b5a@mail.gmail.com> We have pre-printed cards of various sizes for the various tape stocks with stuff like the company logo, address and such, and we print the media-specific information on a transparent label (using a Dymo LabelWriter) which we stick on top of the pre-printed card. The result looks pretty nice. JF Panisset MPC Santa Monica, CA On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Paul Korver wrote: > > Media Labeling: > Anyone have a smart way to create company logo-ed D-Beta, DVCAM, HDCAM etc. > labels?  Right now we're just using our printer and cutting-to-size with a > paper cutter which could be greatly improved upon. > From riza at silver.co.uk Wed Dec 9 22:23:04 2009 From: riza at silver.co.uk (Riza Nur Pacalioglu) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:23:04 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Digital Cinema Package job Message-ID: <1B944564D0B4C343B0C4FDC4B796E596570C238C94@MBX73.ad2.softcom.biz> Hi I will be in the market for having a 76 minute feature film converted to Digital Cinema Package as per DCI for electronic delivery to theatres. Film master is SR tape encoded as RGB 4:4:4. If anyone on this list is involved with this type of job please email me off-list with a rough quote. Thank you Riza Nur Pacalioglu Producer Silver Productions, Salisbury, England http://silver.co.uk From liao.zd at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 08:16:56 2009 From: liao.zd at gmail.com (Liao Zhuodi) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:16:56 +0800 Subject: [Tig] How to confirm tons of VFX shots in SMOKE Message-ID: <4b20ae78.9513f30a.55e8.321e@mx.google.com> Confirm tons of VFX shots We think of 2 ways, EDL and XML for conforming the VFX shots. If our smoke using EDL to conform, the problem is most CG softwares do not keep the original scanning dpx header info as the original scans dpx, we lost TC, Keycode everything. So the dpx files must keep their scanning naming conventions, when scanning the dpx are named by the frame numbers calculated from the TC (01:00:00:00=86400Frames). The headache is some VFX shots are composited by 2 or 3 elements, which one's TC should be the VFX TC. If we conform by XML, Apple FCP can not support dpx sequence well, have to use the quicktime as reference. And we have to revise XML to apply the dpx sequence. Is any better way to conform those VFX shots? Especially when the shot amount are huge. From xthrob at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 16:38:55 2009 From: xthrob at gmail.com (throb - Robert Nederhorst) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:38:55 -0800 Subject: [Tig] How to confirm tons of VFX shots in SMOKE In-Reply-To: <4b20ae78.9513f30a.55e8.321e@mx.google.com> References: <4b20ae78.9513f30a.55e8.321e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7b08c40a0912100838r5b7d62fdl49bfcc6ebd598044@mail.gmail.com> compositing software has the ability to put timecode into the dpx header. talk to the vfx or compositing supervisor and have that person figure out a solution for you. rob throb | vfx | http://throb.net On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Liao Zhuodi wrote: > using EDL to conform, the problem is most CG softwares do not keep the > original scanning dpx header info as the original scans dpx, we lost TC, > Keycode everything. So the dpx files must keep their scanning naming From mfw at musictrax.com Fri Dec 11 01:59:49 2009 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:59:49 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Slightly OT - Media Tracking & Labeling In-Reply-To: <1D2A75A5-1E46-4EF9-8A9F-4A3938D7F778@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: On 12/8/09 3:25 PM, "Paul Korver" wrote: > Anyone have a smart way to create company > logo-ed D-Beta, DVCAM, HDCAM etc. labels? Right now we're just using our > printer and cutting-to- size with a paper cutter which could be greatly > improved upon. >------------------------------------------------------------< Try these guys: http://www.professionallabel.com/ They have sizes that will fit Digibeta and HDCam, and I think some sizes can be adjusted to fit D5 and smaller tapes. You can opt to print your own logos as the new label is printed, or have them pre-printed with your logo. > Asset Tracking: Are there any asset management systems > (barcode etc.) people like or could refer me to? >------------------------------------------------------------< Scheduall is the biggest, but they're not cheap: http://www.scheduall.com/ If you have a small facility, you might be better off hiring a local database consultant -- for example, a specialist in Filemaker Pro or Access -- and have them custom-build something for you. Building in barcode scanners and printers is fairly easy these days. --Marc Wielage Cinesound/LA (818) 486-7747 From warrenl at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 02:34:59 2009 From: warrenl at gmail.com (woz) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:34:59 +0000 Subject: [Tig] iPhone 3G white point adjusted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <816d14ca0912101834y7cd9bc60i9b0022bd3472231f@mail.gmail.com> Have a look at the "first" (I'm betting someone here will dig an obscure one out from years ago!) compact camera with a built in projector, the Nikon Coolpix S1000pj They (Nikon) quote VGA equivalent resolution, 10 lumens max. brightness and up to 6ft 6" throw. May as well add that to the grading suite equipment I guess. I have no affiliation with Nikon, other than an APS SLR someone gave to me a few years back. It would appear that size of image target was years ahead of it's time judging by the current crop (excuse the pun) of digital SLR's. woz 2008/7/15 Rob Lingelbach > 1940 subscribers as of July 2008 > Sharon Adcock supports the TIG > conferencing, calendars, more at > http://www.colorist.org/forums > ==== > > > > On Jul 16, 2008, at 12:31 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > >> >> I've been asked more than once to use the clips on an iPhone as reference >> for my grading. >> > > the screen isn't going to get much bigger, but could you imagine, > eventually, having a projector in the iPhone that, if given the proper > surface, would allow clients in the suite to show (good resolution) clips ? > and then the actual grading suite output could be narrowcast to all the > iPhones of the clients in the facility, for either in-phone viewing or > projection? > > or, built-in to the obligatory client sunglasses, a pair of tiny hi-res > screens.. > that way the sunglasses wouldn't have to come off, exposing the real person > by mistake... > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emergency contact: rob (at) nccom.com > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > -- This email including any attachment(s) is private and confidential and may contain privileged information, which may be used only by the addressee. If you are not the addressee or their delivery agent, then you may not disclose, disseminate, print, copy, store or otherwise use any information therein contained. If you believe or suspect that you have received this mail in error, please be kind enough to notify the sender, and delete it from your system. The sender accepts no liability of any kind either for errors arising from transmission of this email or for any loss or damage sustained if this email and/or its attachments are communicated to any person other than the intended recipient. pleez ekskyooze pour spellin and grammer and tiepin erroz Thank you. From jamworks at earthlink.net Sun Dec 13 12:16:47 2009 From: jamworks at earthlink.net (John A. Mozzer) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 04:16:47 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? Message-ID: <4B24DB2F.7070206@earthlink.net> See http://legacydigital.net/ I don't want to pick on this company. But I may want to pick on Leo LaPorte, host of The Tech Guy radio show and podcast (if only I could.) I've been listening to LaPorte on a regular basis, and have found his advice on tech issues to be very trustworthy. On Saturday, he recommended Legacy Digital Productions to a caller on The Tech Guy on national AM radio. Beforehand, I had never heard of Legacy Digital Productions. The person calling wanted to transfer PAL tapes to NTSC. But when I went to the Legacy Digital Productions website, I discovered they also do 8mm and 16mm film transfers. Find "8mm and 16mm Film Transfer Frequent Questions" and "How does our process differ from most other services?" on their website. When rating the quality of processes other than their own, they say: "The next step up would rate at about a 5 to 6 on the scale. This process is commonly called a telecine transfer. This machine looks like a projector, but instead of having a lense, it has a video chip that captures the image from the film." When describing their own system, they say: "Frame captures are done by a 3 chip professional level optics system that will trump the telecine single chip systems every time." What!?!? From ken at flight4.org Sun Dec 13 18:08:07 2009 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 10:08:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <4B24DB2F.7070206@earthlink.net> References: <4B24DB2F.7070206@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <802325.69987.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> And other references that I have seen... Telecine: video recording of movie in cinema. (shading doesnt get rid of the moving head syndrome) Telecine: de interlace or getting rid of pull down. Ken Robinson Senior Colourist ________________________________ From: John A. Mozzer To: tig at colorist.org Sent: Sun, 13 December, 2009 9:16:47 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. Alpha Cine supports the TIG. ==== When describing their own system, they say: "Frame captures are done by a 3 chip professional level optics system that will trump the telecine single chip systems every time." What!?!? From rob at cinelab.com Sun Dec 13 19:34:20 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:34:20 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <4B24DB2F.7070206@earthlink.net> References: <4B24DB2F.7070206@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4A10E6B6-2156-4133-9EB3-3B06705844F7@cinelab.com> > "Frame captures are done by a 3 chip professional level optics system that will trump the telecine single chip systems every time." I think that the idea that any film chain style system is a "telecine" should be swiftly shown to be a defective one. Professional production has not used a projector and camera based system since the 70's and this should be pointed out as a inferior method whether there is a single chip or three. I think it is pretty clear that the idea of using a projector with older film is unnecessarily destructive. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From jamworks at earthlink.net Sun Dec 13 21:18:04 2009 From: jamworks at earthlink.net (John A. Mozzer) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:18:04 -0800 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data Message-ID: <4B255A0C.2070900@earthlink.net> Last night, I read the "S8 to 2k data" thread in the TIG November 2009 archives. Through web searching, I've come across this: "2K Data scans from . . . Super 8mm - Delivered as DPX or 2K ProRes 4444" http://www.cinelicious.tv/fresh/ John A. Mozzer Hobbyist, with an interest in telecine/datacine From flyback1 at verizon.net Mon Dec 14 03:19:49 2009 From: flyback1 at verizon.net (Cliff Benham) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:19:49 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <4B24DB2F.7070206@earthlink.net> References: <4B24DB2F.7070206@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4B25AED5.803@verizon.net> John A. Mozzer wrote: > This machine looks like a projector, but instead of having a lense, it > has a video chip that captures the image from the film." > I think the reference here is to a device once made by Eiki for schools, consumer use, etc. I'm familiar with this class of film 'conversion product' and while it does not compare in quality to the modern telecines discussed on this list, it did fill a need at the time they were being sold. I've had a longtime interest in the transfer of film to video. In the 1980s I worked for Hubbard Broadcasting in a sort of corporate model shop where I designed and built a drop-in replacement for a TK-26 film chain camera, a video cart player for commercial on-air use and a tape based video delay system. These were all built for use at KSTP in Minneapolis and were also sold at the NAB Convention for a few years by Hubbard Communications. Most recently I was for 19 years chief engineer of the QVC Shopping Channel and then became chief engineer for another QVC group building software applications for cable systems. Since retiring I now spend some of my time with the television and broadcast equipment at the Early Television Museum in Hilliard, Ohio, especially the field sequential 'CBS' color equipment. http://www.earlytelevision.org/2009_convention_photos-benham.html While I've never had the chance to work with high quality telecines I appreciate the chance to lurk here on this list and pick up information and understanding about them. Cliff Benham From andreas at smalfilm.no Mon Dec 14 08:04:43 2009 From: andreas at smalfilm.no (=?us-ascii?Q?Andreas_Wideroe?=) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:04:43 +0100 Subject: [Tig] S8 to 2k data In-Reply-To: <4B255A0C.2070900@earthlink.net> References: <4B255A0C.2070900@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2E11B6CEA99F469CB74746ED0CBA7211@kontoret> >From what I know the original Super8 gates in Spirits only uses half the CCD sensor meaning it isn't 2K. The scan is more like 1K and then it gets internally upconverted to 2K. However, the images should look pretty good anyway. /Andreas --- Norsk Smalfilm AS http://www.smalfilm.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 Fax: (+47) 38 02 33 84 From steve.simon at snellgroup.com Mon Dec 14 10:10:50 2009 From: steve.simon at snellgroup.com (Steve Simon) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:10:50 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? Message-ID: > I think that the idea that any film chain style system is a > "telecine" should be swiftly shown to be a defective one. > Professional production has not used a projector and camera > based system since the 70's and this should be pointed out > as a inferior method whether there is a single chip or three. Well... Sadly I missed the film chains being pulled out of Ch10 Brisbane by a few months in 1992. There where two projectors and two slide scanners optically multiplexed onto two cameras (I don't even know the correct terminology here). I did work on some RCA 2inch cart machines which where still in use for adverts live on air, one of which actually had a processor board for machine control - the others used discrete TTL logic control no doubt its all long gone now. -Steve From dlt at earthlink.net Mon Dec 14 17:14:12 2009 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:14:12 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B267264.5080703@earthlink.net> Steve Simon wrote: > I did work on some RCA 2inch cart machines ... one of which actually had a processor board for > machine control - the others used discrete TTL logic control The RCA TCR-100 (and the contemporary TR-70) used RTL integrated circuits (resistor-transistor logic) where a small PC card (around 3x5") had a standard logic function - 4 input AND or perhaps a 4 bit BCD latch. The cards were connected via wire wrap backplane connections to provide servo and loading logic control. A single logical path could hit dozens of cards in the frame. When automation was added to the transoprt to provide random access to carts in the belt, a large part of the load logic was replaced with a microprocessor (RCA CMOS 1802). I traveled around the country in the early 80s doing these upgrades. David Tosh ex RCA tech Alert VTR specialist From pmendelson at ascentmedia.com Mon Dec 14 17:32:02 2009 From: pmendelson at ascentmedia.com (Phil Mendelson) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:32:02 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <4B267264.5080703@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ahh.....the good ole days On 12/14/09 9:14 AM, "David Tosh" wrote: >> > machine control - the others used discrete TTL logic control > > The RCA TCR-100 (and the contemporary TR-70) used RTL integrated > circuits (resistor-transistor logic) where a small PC card (around 3x5") From adam7889 at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 14 18:43:54 2009 From: adam7889 at bellsouth.net (Gary Adams) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:43:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: References: <4B267264.5080703@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002501ca7ced$63607680$2a216380$@net> I will second that... Gary Adams Also X RCA Video Tape Specialist (and worked for Dave Tosh often). -----Original Message----- Ahh.....the good ole days On 12/14/09 9:14 AM, "David Tosh" wrote: >> > machine control - the others used discrete TTL logic control > > The RCA TCR-100 (and the contemporary TR-70) used RTL integrated > circuits (resistor-transistor logic) where a small PC card (around 3x5") _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Dec 14 21:53:55 2009 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:53:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <002501ca7ced$63607680$2a216380$@net> References: <4B267264.5080703@earthlink.net> <002501ca7ced$63607680$2a216380$@net> Message-ID: I assume that the definition of "telecine" is a machine which scans the film in the same order as would be output as video lines. So a telecine which outputs interlaced video would scan the film in an interlaced fashion? If a CCD is used, does it count as a "telecine" if the data is clocked out in video order? Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Tue Dec 15 16:16:25 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:16:25 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <4B267264.5080703@earthlink.net> References: <4B267264.5080703@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <664592B0-2559-4326-B3D4-FBE3FE9FAA8E@colorist.org> Peter Swinson sent the following for distribution: Well here is a really old telecine. January 1937 in London. One of a pair of Baird’s telecines at the BBC. [the telecine can be seen at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/BairdHistory in photos 5 and 6 down the page --Rob] The Baird company became Cinema Television, it was then purchased by The Rank Organisation and the name was shortened to Cintel. I regard any device that converts a length of physical film to a television (video) signal as a telecine. Cheers Peter From cadzinator at gmail.com Tue Dec 15 16:47:46 2009 From: cadzinator at gmail.com (Robb C) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:47:46 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Looking for used HD VTR's Message-ID: <2FC4FF5E-70B6-4E4C-B2F6-4A1B63DB7CBC@gmail.com> Looking around for a used D5 (AJ-HD3700B or H) in decent shape, anyone looking to unload one? Feel free to contact me offline if you do. PS Anyone know if the Broadcast Exchange is gone? Sent a couple of emails and they were returned? Thanks! Robb Cadzow Engineer cadzinator at gmail.com From steve at veralith.com Tue Dec 15 16:45:33 2009 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:45:33 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <664592B0-2559-4326-B3D4-FBE3FE9FAA8E@colorist.org> References: <4B267264.5080703@earthlink.net> <664592B0-2559-4326-B3D4-FBE3FE9FAA8E@colorist.org> Message-ID: <619918B2-0725-4EB7-B6AF-960CF66F67B4@veralith.com> Peter's definition interests me. (And he's certainly better informed than I am.) His definition throws a wrench into the "film chain" discussion we had during the WWII color film transfer debate, doesn't it? What is the difference in definition then, between the "projector/ multiplex/video camera" film chain and a "modern" telecine, if they're both "telecines"? There even seemed to be some argument about the term "film chain" or "multiplexer." To me it (the film chain) seems fundamentally different than a telecine, but I guess that depends on your definition of a telecine. Peters definition certainly separates telecine from a scanner, since the scanner turns the film into data, instead of a video signal. Peter's definition seems to say that the term was never that exclusive to begin with, so it hasn't really been "co-opted." Semantically, "telecine" really just implies some combination of film and television, so Peter's definition definitely works, but then, I suppose what is disturbing to people on this list is that what we really need is a more specific and exclusive definition of the "film- to-tape transfer machine" that most people have feeding their da Vinci's. Just looking for a healthy, informed discussion... Steve Hullfish On Dec 15, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > I regard any device that converts a length of physical film to a > television (video) signal as a telecine. From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Dec 15 17:24:00 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:24:00 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Looking for used HD VTR's In-Reply-To: <2FC4FF5E-70B6-4E4C-B2F6-4A1B63DB7CBC@gmail.com> References: <2FC4FF5E-70B6-4E4C-B2F6-4A1B63DB7CBC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ghfi5pddm3oobmddflp14u980r05kmi13@4ax.com> >Looking around for a used D5 (AJ-HD3700B or H) in decent shape, anyone looking to unload one? Feel free to contact me offline if you do. D5 decks show up on ebay time to time: http://tinyurl.com/y9kf5ez --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From lawrence.towers at nyu.edu Tue Dec 15 20:30:28 2009 From: lawrence.towers at nyu.edu (Lawrence Towers) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:30:28 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5f60d0cb70060.4b27ab94@mail.nyu.edu> Maybe so. I wish on the other hand someone would co-opt the concept not just the name. Why can't someone comer up with a decent unit for scanning 16mm film that is not based on a minimally rebuilt projector; That does not cost an arm and a leg? Why can't something serviceable be built with off the shelf software and sensors? Are transports that difficult to build? I've got a long Xmas break, maybe I'll be forced to ruin it by tinkering in the garage! From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Dec 16 04:55:47 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:55:47 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Looking for used HD VTR's In-Reply-To: <4ghfi5pddm3oobmddflp14u980r05kmi13@4ax.com> References: <2FC4FF5E-70B6-4E4C-B2F6-4A1B63DB7CBC@gmail.com> <4ghfi5pddm3oobmddflp14u980r05kmi13@4ax.com> Message-ID: >>Looking around for a used D5 (AJ-HD3700B or H) in decent shape, anyone looking to unload one? Feel free to contact me offline if you do. Dale at Resource Video, a used gear reseller, lists two 3700B's in her current email blast. She can be reached at sales at resourcevideo.com. I do business with Dale now and again, sometimes as buyer and sometimes as seller, and dealing with her has always been a pleasant experience. I have no other interest in her company. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From g.cooper3 at ntlworld.com Wed Dec 16 09:38:29 2009 From: g.cooper3 at ntlworld.com (Geoff Cooper) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:38:29 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? References: <5f60d0cb70060.4b27ab94@mail.nyu.edu> Message-ID: <002301ca7e33$891b4ca0$0401a8c0@raynhams> They did, but the market wasn't big enough to justify the manufacturing. I've often fancied using the excellent Nikon Super Coolscan 5000ED for a "telecine/scanner" It takes 20 secs to scan each frame, but it is at16 bit, 4000dpi and has dustbusting and scratch concealment built in. Some mods for 16mm will be required. Oh and a transport! Some meccano will do for that, do they have that outside UK? Ask for a big set for Xmas, see Ebay: http://tinyurl.com/ybl46bs Good Luck! Geoff (still looking for a job in uk) > Why can't someone comer up with a decent unit for scanning 16mm film that > is not based on a minimally rebuilt projector; That does not cost an arm > and a leg? Why can't something serviceable be built with off the shelf > software and sensors? Are transports that difficult to build? I've got a > long Xmas break, maybe I'll be forced to ruin it by tinkering in the > garage! > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Wed Dec 16 11:06:59 2009 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (peter_swinson at compuserve.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:06:59 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? Message-ID: <8CC4C57059E2648-A7C-25@angweb-usd005.sysops.aol.com> I guess the issue raised here is that of quality. Seems the perception is that "film chain" is regarded, by today's standards, as low quality and has a potentially damaging intermittent transport and therfore is not a telecine. I would suggest that, leaving modern "Film Scanners" aside, the real difference between old intermittent transport film chains and modrenish telecines is that we have a mind set that says Telecine = continuous motion film transport that does not use a conventianal video camera system, I apologise to any Vialta users out there. The era from, I guess late 1960's through to early 2000's was that of such devices and they continue to thrive. However would we regard modern intermittent transport data scanners as film chains, I think not. I am sure, out there somewhere, someone is pointing his HD consumer camera at a white wall onto which an 8mm film image is being projected. And that combination is a Telecine! cheers Peter From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Dec 16 16:25:38 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:25:38 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Looking for used HD VTR's In-Reply-To: References: <2FC4FF5E-70B6-4E4C-B2F6-4A1B63DB7CBC@gmail.com> <4ghfi5pddm3oobmddflp14u980r05kmi13@4ax.com> Message-ID: <592ii5pnm3eg57188t8c8b1779mng9q7f4@4ax.com> >Looking around for a used D5 (AJ-HD3700B or H) in decent shape, anyone looking to unload one? Feel free to contact me offline if you do. One more: Just got an email from Media Concepts in Oklahoma (a used gear broker), and they have a 3700H listed as available. 918-252-3600. I've sold a couple of things through them, but have never bought anything from them, and have no interest in the company whatsoever. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From jpo at prestodigital.ca Wed Dec 16 16:29:10 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:29:10 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <8CC4C57059E2648-A7C-25@angweb-usd005.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC4C57059E2648-A7C-25@angweb-usd005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <300E97AA-36D8-4A63-9B51-74AF95A70B4A@prestodigital.ca> This has been ringing a tiny bell in the back of my head for a week now, and its a fast google search: http://hackaday.com/2007/12/08/super8-automatic-film-scanner/ Lego/Mindstorm and some spit, twine, duct tape... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From hwthayer at cox.net Wed Dec 16 16:56:14 2009 From: hwthayer at cox.net (Howard Thayer) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:56:14 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <300E97AA-36D8-4A63-9B51-74AF95A70B4A@prestodigital.ca> References: <8CC4C57059E2648-A7C-25@angweb-usd005.sysops.aol.com> <300E97AA-36D8-4A63-9B51-74AF95A70B4A@prestodigital.ca> Message-ID: <001d01ca7e70$addab930$09902b90$@net> "Hey Steve, take a run by FAO Schwartz and pick up another box of Legos. We need to upgrade the scanner. While you're there get some Duplos, we're moving up to 35mm." Howard Note: I have no connection to FAO Schwartz, or the Lego folks. -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Joe Owens Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 8:29 AM To: tig at colorist.org Group Subject: Re: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. Alpha Cine supports the TIG. ==== This has been ringing a tiny bell in the back of my head for a week now, and its a fast google search: http://hackaday.com/2007/12/08/super8-automatic-film-scanner/ Lego/Mindstorm and some spit, twine, duct tape... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Wed Dec 16 17:23:44 2009 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (peter_swinson at compuserve.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:23:44 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? Message-ID: <8CC4C8BA750924B-CC0-177@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Geoff Coper said, >I've often fancied using the excellent Nikon Super Coolscan 5000ED for a >"telecine/scanner" >It takes 20 secs to scan each frame, but it is at16 bit, 4000dpi and has >dustbusting and scratch concealment built in. Well Geoff guess what? Several years ago when Film Scanners were only just being talked about, we (Cintel at the time) looked at just that, before even Klone !! We took apart a Nikon Coolscan and found that it could be “chopped up” to form a bracket shape and that the film could sit between the bracket “jaws”. The scan was such that it scanned horizontally across the film, but so what, it was just pixels. We abandoned the idea for 2 reasons a) Speed, b) Nervousness about supply continuance, although with hindsight if we had purchased 100 of them at the time, at around £700 each it might have been quicker to market than anything else and we could of made 100 before worrying about another design. I liked the way it worked. Line array CCD, Fast switching RGB and IR light source. As the whole light source, CCD stage and optics moved across the film the LEDS switched (cycled) color in I guess less than 1 / 4 of a pixel width, thereby exposing each CCD photosite to RGB and IR if needed. Go for it Geoff, you never know, you could be the next scanner manufacturer of note Cheers Peter From jamworks at earthlink.net Wed Dec 16 21:49:39 2009 From: jamworks at earthlink.net (John A. Mozzer) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:49:39 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? Message-ID: <4B2955F3.10909@earthlink.net> Now some of you folks have me confused about how you are using the term "film scanner" or "scanner". Steve Hullfish wrote (on this thread), "Peters definition certainly separates telecine from a scanner, since the scanner turns the film into data, instead of a video signal." Peter Swinson wrote (also on this thread), "Several years ago when Film Scanners were only just being talked about, . . .". So, for example, a flying spot scanner image system on a classic Rank Cintel (from much longer ago than "several years ago") is not a "film scanner"? John A. Mozzer Los Angeles, CA Hobbyist with an interest in telecine/datacine, who started this thread From jpo at prestodigital.ca Thu Dec 17 02:10:59 2009 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:10:59 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <4B2955F3.10909@earthlink.net> References: <4B2955F3.10909@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2097F20B-5731-4D07-90A5-482D196C3189@prestodigital.ca> On 16-Dec-09, at 2:49 PM, John A. Mozzer wrote: > So, for example, a flying spot scanner image system on a classic > Rank Cintel (from much longer ago than "several years ago") is not > a "film scanner"? Not anymore, in working parlance. Its a classic semantic evolution, since they all do a similar thing, in different ways with different movements at differing quality levels. DI caused the split, since digitizing images from film needed to be carried out at minimum 1920x1080 (cheaters to HDCamSR), but more preferably at 2048 (2K) and now characteristically 4K --- where no tape format exists, and no uncompressed pipeline can catch that data rate real-time. I started thinking about a telecine as being something that was stuck with a video output... and then there are "datacines".... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at colorist.org Thu Dec 17 02:56:21 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:56:21 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <8CC4C8BA750924B-CC0-177@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC4C8BA750924B-CC0-177@angweb-usd004.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <61838EE2-CD6B-44EA-9757-2B4254E442CE@colorist.org> I searched for telecine in the US Patent records, and found an interesting entry for a "Motion picture telecine balanced for negative scanning." http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5049984/fulltext.html The following excerpt from the patent is worthy of J. Joyce: Telecine scanning apparatus for processing color motion picture negative and print film in a scanner which interposes said film in an optical light path between a light source and a pickup stage that develops a plurality of separate color output signals corresponding to respective color light transmissions through the film, characterized in that said pickup stage provides substantially equivalent output levels in the respective colors for respective color light transmissions through the film substantially equivalent to corresponding light transmissions through the base density of a negative film, said base density further embodied in an optical filter that is selectively inserted into the optical light path for print scanning to maintain substantial equivalence of the output levels whether scanning negative or print film. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From carl at stopp.se Thu Dec 17 08:53:51 2009 From: carl at stopp.se (Carl Skaff) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:53:51 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Best Scanner - worts problem Message-ID: Hey all Here's a thread starter for you: What scanner do you think produces the best image quality? What would you say if the difference in pure picture quality between the mayor filmscanner? Specs like scanning-speed/output formats/winding-speed/price are easy to see from the specs. But the quality in terms of detail/noise/stabilety/color separation/color representation is a bit harder and usually needs to be tested. ould be nice to get some eneral comments from around the TK-globe what you all think. And please, feel free to mention some problems you might have had, like "oh with the XXX you need to clean the gate once a month with alcohol otherwise you get XXX in the image" or whatever. Its very easy t find out some good things about scanners and stuff, but the things we need to know when consedering to buy one... is the ba things :) (I as thinking mostly about the "new" pure datasanners like, ArriScan, DiTTo, Scanity, Spirit2/4K, ImagerXE & LaserGraphics. But if you have any more pleasse comment) /carl Carl Skaff _____________________ Head of Telecine Stockholm Postproduction www.stopp.se phone: +46 8 50 70 35 00 fax: +46 8 32 77 22 From grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk Thu Dec 17 09:35:11 2009 From: grahamcollett at visible-sprockets.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:35:11 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <002301ca7e33$891b4ca0$0401a8c0@raynhams> Message-ID: > Why can't someone comer up with a decent unit for scanning 16mm film > that > is not based on a minimally rebuilt projecto MWA is making one ..showed it at IBC looked nice .... Its desktop ... if you have a big desk !! Graham Collett Visible Sprockets Ltd www.visible-sprockets.co.uk Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk From nlp at dr.dk Thu Dec 17 09:23:44 2009 From: nlp at dr.dk (Nils Lind Petersen DR TES Format, Grafik og Optik) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:23:44 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Has the term "telecine" been co-opted? In-Reply-To: <8CC4C57059E2648-A7C-25@angweb-usd005.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC4C57059E2648-A7C-25@angweb-usd005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <376278478771E34281D350DD0FF2AB01A8CCE00EF4@EXCHMBXV02.net.dr.dk> I remember back in the early 80'ties we had 2 filmscanners from Bosch-Fernseh with a loud pheumatic fast pulldown transport for transmission and transfer of 16mm. It was considered safe for film handling, though it sometimes damaged the film. So intermittent transport has been combined with flying spot. - have a look at the 2 pictures here, anyone else who remember using this? http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Nlp Nils Lind Petersen telecine engineer, DR, Copenhagen www.dr.dk From rob at colorist.org Thu Dec 17 14:57:38 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:57:38 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Shadow for sale (Classifieds update) Message-ID: Along with other ads at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds *Shadow for sale 16/35mm gate Audio option NO HD with or without Pogle Platinum CC System Location Hamburg/Germany contact telecine at vcc.de -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Dec 17 16:29:08 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Tig] For sale on Classifieds Message-ID: <7A19E753-FAC0-4FDE-8B9F-48036CCA981F@colorist.org> http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds For sale GATES 1 x Original std 16mm telecine gate for Bosch/BTS/Philips FDL-60, 90 and Quadra 1 x Original std 35mm telecine gate for Bosch/BTS/Philips FDL-60, 90 and Quadra The gates are in good condition and are ready for the FDL-60, but can very easy be modified to fit the 90 and Quadra. (Change 9pin D-type connector to a 25pin). I also know someone who has modified them to do other formats. Carl Zeiss lenses on both. Asking 10K Euros for BOTH or 6K Euros if you buy one. Or place a bid! A donation to the TIG will be made if the gates get sold here. Please respond to my email address. andreas [at] smalfilm.no -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Dec 17 16:38:28 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:38:28 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Calendar: ICA in Brisbane Message-ID: <59ADE1E0-1428-4636-84AF-15039071B1E2@colorist.org> Warren Eagles added an event in Brisbane on the TIG calendar at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Calendars:TIG_main for Jan. 27-29. Rob TIG admin -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Thu Dec 17 18:10:14 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:10:14 -0500 Subject: [Tig] BRRE Message-ID: <7BBE664A-37D0-4BF7-97BA-7A0F99F09697@colorist.org> The Hon. Peter Swinson, is hereby accepting, via the TIG, nominations for the awarding of a degree, specifically the BSc, last won in 2006 by Sharon Adcock, as Mr. Swinson relates. http://tinyurl.com/yd5l85t Rob TIG admin/founder (as regards historical BRRE discussion, multiple references can be found in the TIG archives http://tig.colorist.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi -- enter 'BRRE' in the search field.) (I had nothing to do with this except for starting the whole thing a very long time ago, though it was then known as BRAAP, as I recall.) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From skiadcock at aol.com Thu Dec 17 19:42:17 2009 From: skiadcock at aol.com (skiadcock at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:42:17 EST Subject: [Tig] NAB 2010 housing prices are low Message-ID: I know - it's not even Xmas yet, but I happened to be on the NAB site today for something else & noticed the prices for housing for next year are, in some cases, incredibly low. Might be worth checking out if you're thinking of attending. You can always cancel if you decide not to go. Plus NAB is saying if rates drop they'll automatically drop your rate. Cheers. _http://event.expobook.com/Modules/Reservation/HotelList.aspx_ (http://event.expobook.com/Modules/Reservation/HotelList.aspx) On a separate note - I need to find my BREE certificate. I know I saw it when I moved locations this year. Happy holidays in advance everyone! Cheers. Sharon Adcock From NJK at cbsnews.com Tue Dec 22 20:15:54 2009 From: NJK at cbsnews.com (Kassner, Neal) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:15:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Colorist Of The Future? Message-ID: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9201B457C@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/robots.html#photo12 After reading the caption below the picture, the jokes seem to practically write themselves... Happy Holidays! Neal Kassner Colorist CBS News/NY From rob at cinelab.com Thu Dec 24 02:31:21 2009 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:31:21 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Colorist Of The Future? In-Reply-To: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9201B457C@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9201B457C@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <7C883957-8C00-455C-B6B8-C19C5856A14C@cinelab.com> > After reading the caption below the picture, the jokes seem to > practically write themselves... We have finally connected the beer with the control surface in a complete closed loop..... My god.... it's full of bubbles........ Hula Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Colorist-Director www.cinelab.com From rogerito at terra.com.br Thu Dec 24 14:00:20 2009 From: rogerito at terra.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Rog=C3=A9rio_Moraes?=) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:00:20 -0200 Subject: [Tig] RES: Colorist Of The Future? In-Reply-To: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9201B457C@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9201B457C@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <005201ca84a1$6fa3fe60$4eebfb20$@com.br> Hey! His chair is cooler than mine! > -----Mensagem original----- > De: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] Em nome > de Kassner, Neal > Enviada em: terça-feira, 22 de dezembro de 2009 18:16 > Para: Telecine Internet Group > Assunto: [Tig] Colorist Of The Future? > > Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. > 2039 subscribers in December 2009. > Arri supports the TIG. > ==== > > http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/robots.html#photo12 > > After reading the caption below the picture, the jokes seem to > practically write themselves... > > > Happy Holidays! > > Neal Kassner > Colorist > CBS News/NY > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 __________ Informação do ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versão da vacina 4713 (20091223) __________ A mensagem foi verificada pelo ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rob at colorist.org Mon Dec 28 21:48:13 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:48:13 -0500 Subject: [Tig] New on Classifieds (wanted); Micah Kirz Message-ID: The following is new on the TIG wiki classifieds at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds *Wanted: HD card for Spirit Datacine. Please contact Jim Mahoney at jim [at] filmandtapeworks.com or call 312-280-2210 Micah Kirz has two new spots in rotation on the main TIG wiki page at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 : Cointreau "Cointreaupolitan," and MTV "Buried Life." Any colorists who would like to feature their work on the TIG wiki are welcome to contact me for upload details. Season's Greetings to all. Rob TIG admin -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From rob at colorist.org Mon Dec 28 22:15:07 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:15:07 -0500 Subject: [Tig] New on Classifieds (wanted); Micah Kirz Message-ID: <63B994FA-B854-4881-A603-66873DA9D7BD@colorist.org> The following is new on the TIG wiki classifieds at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds *Wanted: HD card for Spirit Datacine. Please contact Jim Mahoney at jim [at] filmandtapeworks.com or call 312-280-2210 Micah Kirz has two new spots in rotation on the main TIG wiki page at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 : Cointreau "Cointreaupolitan," and MTV "Buried Life." Any colorists who would like to feature their work on the TIG wiki are welcome to contact me for upload details. Season's Greetings to all. Rob TIG admin -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From prberg2 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 29 00:32:41 2009 From: prberg2 at yahoo.com (Peter Berg) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:32:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts Message-ID: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, Hope everyone is having a nice holiday season. I just saw Avatar the other day and wanted to get the opinions of the experts here on this color issue that I experienced. I saw the movie in 3D at the Arclight Cinerama dome here in Los Angleles. I believe They were using 2 NEC digital projectors and the XpanD 3D system. (3D glasses that use some type of active technology) My issue is this. Not only was the movie relatively dim with the glasses on. The movie also had a green/yellow cast when viewed through the glasses. When I removed the glasses.. I lost the 3D effect, but the image was much brighter and the colors seemed to me, to be more vibrant and accurate. So my main question is, did Mr. Cameron adjust the color grade for that version of the film (and others using the XpandD system) to compensate for the color shift? I have read that 3D movies are inherently dim, because of the glasses or filters between our eyes and the light source. But the color shift really bugged me. Unless I am wrong and the movie is supposed to be green/yellow overall? It just surprised me as there were some sunset scenes where the reds, oranges, and yellows were amazing with the glasses off. Well just wanted to see what people thought of the movie, and specifically about color grading issues with 3D. I figured that in the theater and in 3D was the way to see this movie.. but maybe the blu-ray or a 2D presentation will be more vibrant and accurate. Thanks, Peter From enigma at turingstudio.com Tue Dec 29 01:52:24 2009 From: enigma at turingstudio.com (alex black) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:52:24 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4505E87A-949E-4AFB-993B-1D228BA7C76E@turingstudio.com> > So my main question is, did Mr. Cameron adjust the color grade for > that version of the film (and others using the XpandD system) to > compensate for the color shift? I have read that 3D movies are > inherently dim, because of the glasses or filters between our eyes > and the light source. But the yeah, polarization cuts light levels incoming, so you need more brightness on the screen. my guess at the answer to your question above is "no" - I saw it in 3D and noticed nothing that seemed wrong about the image (I happen to know the theatre I was in had two christie CP-2000ZXs, same as we have at colorflow) - but I don't *know* what 3D system they're using, I think dolby. In any case, assuming what you saw was because of the 3D syste, it would be *very* interesting to characterize differences between the systems with a spectro and devise LUTs that can be applied to final grades depending on the target system. best, _alex -- alexander black turing: web applications colorflow: digital post 888.603.6023 / main 510.666.0074 / direct root at turingstudio.com http://turingstudio.com http://colorflow.it From gd.tk at comcast.net Tue Dec 29 01:06:31 2009 From: gd.tk at comcast.net (Greg D.) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:06:31 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2352BAE072D2470FAE51B80D52218E78@ourRZ30> I too just got home and I too pondered the same thoughts as Peter while watching thru the glasses. Could this just be a case of relative difference and we like the relative brighter picture "better" even though thru the glasses is the way it's meant to be? Or will the glasses always affect the picture even if tweaked for them? This is my 2nd "real 3d" movie and the highlights never seem to get there while looking thru these glasses. -Greg Dildine (once a colorist always a colorist) -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Peter Berg Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:33 PM To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2039 subscribers in December 2009. Arri supports the TIG. ==== Hello all, Hope everyone is having a nice holiday season. I just saw Avatar the other day and wanted to get the opinions of the experts here on this color issue that I experienced. I saw the movie in 3D at the Arclight Cinerama dome here in Los Angleles. I believe They were using 2 NEC digital projectors and the XpanD 3D system. (3D glasses that use some type of active technology) My issue is this. Not only was the movie relatively dim with the glasses on. The movie also had a green/yellow cast when viewed through the glasses. When I removed the glasses.. I lost the 3D effect, but the image was much brighter and the colors seemed to me, to be more vibrant and accurate. So my main question is, did Mr. Cameron adjust the color grade for that version of the film (and others using the XpandD system) to compensate for the color shift? I have read that 3D movies are inherently dim, because of the glasses or filters between our eyes and the light source. But the color shift really bugged me. Unless I am wrong and the movie is supposed to be green/yellow overall? It just surprised me as there were some sunset scenes where the reds, oranges, and yellows were amazing with the glasses off. Well just wanted to see what people thought of the movie, and specifically about color grading issues with 3D. I figured that in the theater and in 3D was the way to see this movie.. but maybe the blu-ray or a 2D presentation will be more vibrant and accurate. Thanks, Peter _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Tue Dec 29 02:35:43 2009 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:35:43 -0500 Subject: [Tig] some blazing trails in color. Message-ID: http://tinyurl.com/yg2t2pv -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org From sai at efxmagic.com Tue Dec 29 02:33:21 2009 From: sai at efxmagic.com (Sai) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:33:21 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1936265267-1262054003-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1268382280-@bda059.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Hello All, I had the exact same experience. I am told the dcp was mastered for a 4.5 ftl which is way way too low. The contrast also appeared less than desirable. The screen was a Harkness , projectors by Barco , glasses by Master Image - I had no answer except tell myself this must be what it was intended to look like. ... Until I saw it again on Imax 3D (analog film based) and wow - what a difference in image quality. The colors we brilliant, contrast and brightness were awesome (in relation to the DCP) and it was a great experience. I guess somewhere in the DCI specifications (3D) there are some gaps that impact the overall end experience. Will investigate further as we will have 3D in post pretty soon and need to know what not to do. Any tips would be welcome. -sai Prasad Corp www.efxmagic.com www.prasadgroup.org. Sai Prasad Prasad Corporation 28, Arunachalam Road, Saligramam, Chennai, India - 600093, -----Original Message----- From: Peter Berg Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:32:41 To: Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts Sohonet http://www.sohonet.co.uk sponsors the TIG. 2039 subscribers in December 2009. Arri supports the TIG. ==== Hello all, Hope everyone is having a nice holiday season. I just saw Avatar the other day and wanted to get the opinions of the experts here on this color issue that I experienced. I saw the movie in 3D at the Arclight Cinerama dome here in Los Angleles. I believe They were using 2 NEC digital projectors and the XpanD 3D system. (3D glasses that use some type of active technology) My issue is this. Not only was the movie relatively dim with the glasses on. The movie also had a green/yellow cast when viewed through the glasses. When I removed the glasses.. I lost the 3D effect, but the image was much brighter and the colors seemed to me, to be more vibrant and accurate. So my main question is, did Mr. Cameron adjust the color grade for that version of the film (and others using the XpandD system) to compensate for the color shift? I have read that 3D movies are inherently dim, because of the glasses or filters between our eyes and the light source. But the color shift really bugged me. Unless I am wrong and the movie is supposed to be green/yellow overall? It just surprised me as there were some sunset scenes where the reds, oranges, and yellows were amazing with the glasses off. Well just wanted to see what people thought of the movie, and specifically about color grading issues with 3D. I figured that in the theater and in 3D was the way to see this movie.. but maybe the blu-ray or a 2D presentation will be more vibrant and accurate. Thanks, Peter _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3 From g.cooper3 at ntlworld.com Tue Dec 29 08:06:34 2009 From: g.cooper3 at ntlworld.com (Geoff Cooper) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 08:06:34 -0000 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts References: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501ca885d$d7ab6330$0401a8c0@raynhams> I saw Avatar, at Vue in Cambridge England, with "RealD" glasses. This is a circular polarised system and worked very well, even if we did all look like Elvis Costello! The glasses were probably half a stop or less and the screen plenty bright enough. As I was with my wife and three kids, I wasn't in full technical mode (I can almost switch off!). However, it all seemed "normal" in grading and illumination terms. I must say how much we all enjoyed the film and would like to congratulate everyone that worked on it The 3D greatly added to total immersion in the fantasy. I look forward to a remake of the Alien series in 3d....... Geoff Cooper UK Still looking for a job... From tiramola at hol.gr Tue Dec 29 09:11:02 2009 From: tiramola at hol.gr (Christos Gartaganis) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:11:02 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200912290911.nBT9B0Wg012064@auth-smtp.hol.gr> Hello to all, Has anyone seen Avatar in Dolby 3D? I think this is the best 3D system in terms of color fidelity. However the light loss is still an issue even with Dolby 3D. All digital 3D systems based on a single projector suffer from light losses of about 80%-85% compared to 2D digital projection. To my experience the average 3D cinema cannot deliver more than 2-3 Fl on the screen. A double projector system like the IMAX can deliver up to 6 Fl on the screen without suffering from the annoying "flashing" artifacts of single projector systems. Wish you all Happy Holidays, Christos Gartaganis From dwooldridge at mac.com Tue Dec 29 10:03:31 2009 From: dwooldridge at mac.com (darin wooldridge) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 02:03:31 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: <1936265267-1262054003-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1268382280-@bda059.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> References: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1936265267-1262054003-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1268382280-@bda059.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Happy New Year TIG. I have not had the pleasure of seeing Avatar. Yet. I'm a bit surprised by your review. I've heard great things in regards to the 3d and color, some via the dome. It is my understanding the silver screen is much more reflective thus the low ftl. We also grade 3d in 3d with the glasses in place and several versions are created to account for the different viewing environments. I wonder if this extra pass for the dcp was skipped and replaced with a single lut applied to the entire feature? Or perhaps an issue with the 3d in theater during that showing. Now who can tell me what theater I should visit to experience it properly? Darin Wooldridge Colorist Technicolor Digital Intermediates 818-653-3918-cell Darin.Wooldridge at thomson.net From avocade at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 18:06:14 2009 From: avocade at gmail.com (Oskar Lissheim-Boethius) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:06:14 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Avatar 3D - Color shifts Message-ID: > > My issue is this. Not only was the movie relatively dim with the glasses > on. The movie also had a green/yellow cast when viewed through the glasses. > When I removed the glasses.. I lost the 3D effect, but the image was much > brighter and the colors seemed to me, to be more vibrant and accurate. > > I'm still amazed that we haven't come further in this development. The best 3D theater showing I've ever seen was in an experimental theater in Norrkoping, Sweden, around 12 years ago. Their glasses were not polarizing at all, but instead had shutters for each eye (LCD I believe) that were made each eye black and the other clear, all synchronized via an IR-transmitter above the screen (around 120Hz probably). This was a _truly amazing_ experience thanks to the clarity of the image, and the total absence of flicker or any distortions whatsoever. I can't see why this technology would have been more than an order of magnitude more expensive back then than polarized glasses (which are crap, let's just put it nicely). Must have come down in price a lot by now. 3D viewing will never be good until we get those kinds of glasses. Polarizing here and polarizing there just doesn't cut it. -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Oskar Lissheim-Boethius iPhone Developer, UI/Interaction Designer, Ruby on Rails Developer & Composer OLB Productions, Gothenburg Sweden work: www.OLBproductions.com From mlbnyc at verizon.net Tue Dec 29 18:25:54 2009 From: mlbnyc at verizon.net (Michael Bittle) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:25:54 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Avatar 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8545378D-D4E2-4B67-9529-3083C3E33BAF@verizon.net> you mean these? http://www.reald.com/Content/Crystal-Eyes-3.aspx (no affiliation, just googled...) Mike On Dec 29, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Oskar Lissheim-Boethius wrote: > 3D theater showing I've ever seen was in an experimental theater in > Norrkoping, Sweden, around 12 years ago. > > Their glasses were not polarizing at all, but instead had shutters > for each > eye (LCD I believe) that were made each eye black and the other > clear, all > synchronized via an IR-transmitter above the screen (around 120Hz From avocade at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 20:13:02 2009 From: avocade at gmail.com (Oskar Lissheim-Boethius) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:13:02 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Avatar 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: References: <838713.1377.qm@web38105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Multimediac wrote: > Oskar, > > How the hell do you expect the luminance and chroma to be perfect in a 3D > environment when present technology modulates RGB to simulate 3D? > > Damn, what an attitude :) In the system I saw I don't think they "double-exposed" any images like they did when I watched Avatar in our crappy cinema here in Gothenburg (state of the art for Sweden I guess); they probably ran 120 fps and showed each other frame for the left/right eye. I.e. no distortions whatsoever. -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Oskar Lissheim-Boethius iPhone Developer, UI/Interaction Designer, Ruby on Rails Developer & Composer OLB Productions, Gothenburg Sweden work: www.OLBproductions.com From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Dec 30 01:46:15 2009 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:46:15 -0800 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D - Color shifts In-Reply-To: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <881844.72736.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8dblj5tqgom3ovrur5oasut3rir975o0vh@4ax.com> >Hope everyone is having a nice holiday season. I just saw Avatar the other day and wanted to get the opinions of the experts here on this color issue that I experienced. > >I saw the movie in 3D at the Arclight Cinerama dome here in Los Angleles. I believe They were using 2 NEC digital projectors and the XpanD 3D system. (3D glasses that use some type of active technology) > >My issue is this. Not only was the movie relatively dim with the glasses on. The movie also had a green/yellow cast when viewed through the glasses. When I removed the glasses.. I lost the 3D effect, but the image was much brighter and the colors seemed to me, to be more vibrant and accurate. I saw it at the same venue last night (Cinerama Dome), and I saw none of what you describe. Yes, the screen was brighter when I removed the glasses, but that's to be expected. The screen brightness was just fine with the glasses on, and once I got acclimated, removing the glasses made the screen look far too bright and blown out. I saw none of the yellow/green colorimetry issues you described. The whites where white, the blacks were more or less black. The blacks could have been pushed down a tad more for my taste, but it seems to me that just about everyone is gun-shy about crushing them too far, and the usual result is more like very, very dark gray. There were many live action scenes where I was astonished that I was watching video. An old, old story, and the end was obvious about five minutes in, but a remarkable tour de force visually. So many incredible images to look at, so fantastically creative, the CGI pretty much seamlessly integrating with the live stuff. The 3D was subtle and added to the experience beautifully. Jim, you magnificent bastard, I knew you could do it :-). --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From peterc at blackmagic-design.com Thu Dec 31 02:57:00 2009 From: peterc at blackmagic-design.com (Peter Chamberlain) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:57:00 +0800 Subject: [Tig] Avatar in 3D Message-ID: <3F9B4A2A-7A00-447E-851C-93D5EBF66FD0@blackmagic-design.com> I recently watched Avatar in a real-D equipped cinema in Australia and could not fault the grade or brightness. The seven others in our group also said it was the best 3D film they had ever seen and even commented on how vibrant the colors were, yet at the same time they felt real. Disclaimer.... As was graded on Resolve @ Modern so I am totally biased on the grading side but have no preference on the display systems. Peter Chamberlain DaVinci Resolve Product Manager Blackmagic Design