From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 1 07:16:22 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 09:16:22 +0300 Subject: [Tig] IBC info sheet Message-ID: <59D26FE1-00B5-4E80-8BEA-7DCD107AFF92@colorist.org> The TIG IBC information sheet is in need of data from presenting manufacturers and vendors. Time is getting short.. please send me your entry in the format you can find at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From dlt at earthlink.net Mon Sep 1 17:41:25 2008 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:41:25 -0700 Subject: [Tig] wow + flutter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BC1B35.7000401@earthlink.net> Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Once long ago I think it was Dave Tosh who told me there really is no > complete guarantee that the speed is constant. This just sounds so, "cosmic"! Scan Track on flying spot machines is always pulling the audio slightly faster or slower than the nominal (average) rate. I always worried about detectable pitch shift at the peaks and valleys where the the direction changed. Depending on the model of telecine and state of local modifications, Scan Track would restart or not after pressing play so audio sync issues could be "interesting" if you attempt an edit into just-recorded material. David Tosh Recovering Telecine Engineer From dlt at earthlink.net Mon Sep 1 18:03:48 2008 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:03:48 -0700 Subject: [Tig] wow + flutter In-Reply-To: <000101c90638$746ebf40$4001a8c0@Sprocket> References: <000101c90638$746ebf40$4001a8c0@Sprocket> Message-ID: <48BC2074.3040107@earthlink.net> Graham Collett wrote: > For the same reason that a film can run on a telecine and still be > unstable ... Multiplied by 2 for the same problems on the sound follower > ..and then combined with synchronsining slackness/errors and hey presto. > I believe the Magnotech has the tightest sync .. Cintel ferrit even > though was very good down to a 1/4 frame sync was only driven by 1ppf The basic Magnatech follower architecture still makes me wonder how it could work at all: Ten pulses per frame from a lightweight toothed sprocket in the Rank (think: picking) directly drives a stepper motor to pull full-coat on the follower. The stepper was driven from squared-up TTL pulses at nowhere near resonance so the audio was jerked forwards 240 times per second. The film motion was then smoothed by a combination of: - spring loaded swinging rollers on either side of the head stack. - air dampeners on the spring rollers (the seals could cause leaks and stickiness) - a large inertial disc coupled by friction to the film - the drag of the head stack(s) themselves. 'Twas a highly empirical design with plenty of opportunity for assault on the senses. I think the stiffness and mass of 35mm fullcoat were integral to any success in this system. The FeRRIT, iirc, had a rate multiplier to translate 24pps up to some high number that was frequency locked to a tach wheel on a DC driven capstan. But it had other problems to offset this.... Extra points to those who can decode the Ferrit acronym. David Tosh Standing in awe that we got away with it at all... From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 1 19:25:36 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 21:25:36 +0300 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use Message-ID: so, I'm watching, here in Kiev, the Russian feed of the Eurosport Live broadcast of the Rafael Nadal vs. Querrey match at the US Open. The audio is advanced at least 4 frames, and I would hazard an former editor's guess at 5 frames, in relation to the video. It's disturbing to say the least, though I feel fortunate in being able to see the match. Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the audio vs. video? Rob -- Rob Lingelbach Tig admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ramona at spectsoft.com Mon Sep 1 19:33:30 2008 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:33:30 -0700 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200809011133.30723.ramona@spectsoft.com> Rob, > Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the audio > vs. video? Are you using an HDMI connection? I have noticed on my very large screen at home that via this connection I encounter these issues, other standard connections do not. I will add it is not on all broadcasts either. Seems to be more apparent on certain broadcasters(stations). Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard CEO/Founder SpectSoft, Inc. 375 Johnson Ave Oakdale, CA 95361 Phone: 209.847.7812 extension 104 Fax: 209.847.7859 http://www.spectsoft.com From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 1 19:41:40 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 21:41:40 +0300 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <200809011133.30723.ramona@spectsoft.com> References: <200809011133.30723.ramona@spectsoft.com> Message-ID: <3B4B35E8-856B-43E1-90F7-72F9C0FD5CCB@colorist.org> On Sep 1, 2008, at 9:33 PM, Ramona Howard wrote: > >> Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the >> audio >> vs. video? > > Are you using an HDMI connection? I have noticed on my very large > screen at > home that via this connection I encounter these issues, other standard > connections do not. gee i have no idea. but this is not the first time I've seen absurdly advanced audio in relation to video. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 1 19:51:11 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:51:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2008, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the audio vs. > video? Yes. This is a common feature of good quality receivers. My Yamaha receiver is capable of delaying the audio up to something like 100ms. The real pain is that the amount of correction required is not constant and may depend on the channel or even the programming. It is good that usually the audio precedes the video since it is much easier to delay the audio than the video. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From panisset at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 20:38:19 2008 From: panisset at gmail.com (Jean-Francois Panisset) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:38:19 -0700 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d4760ac0809011238i5ee57953x4bd64a9a6d3bd22e@mail.gmail.com> Delaying audio is of course a lot cheaper than delaying video, which fortunately seems to be your case. I've used the Behringer DEQ2496 audio processor as an audio delay to compensate for the built-in video delay of the Panasonic TH50 pro plasmas (you need to do that if you are running separate audio rather than connecting the factory speakers to the display): http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG The DEQ2496 can do a lot more than audio delay, so it is a bit of overkill, but it is not that expensive: www.musiciansfriend.com shows factory B stock available for $229. JF Panisset Chief Engineer MPC LA > > The audio is advanced at least 4 frames, and I would hazard an former > editor's guess at 5 frames, in relation to the video. It's disturbing to > say the least, though I feel fortunate in being able to see the match. > > Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the audio vs. > video? > > Rob From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 1 20:40:53 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 22:40:53 +0300 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <2d4760ac0809011238i5ee57953x4bd64a9a6d3bd22e@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d4760ac0809011238i5ee57953x4bd64a9a6d3bd22e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A92ACA6-F827-48F8-841D-4E1A24248059@colorist.org> sorry i wasn't clear, I need to delay video, but am not passionate about doing so, as it would involve a lot of processing. On Sep 1, 2008, at 10:38 PM, Jean-Francois Panisset wrote: > Delaying audio is of course a lot cheaper than delaying video, which > fortunately seems to be your case. I've used the Behringer DEQ2496 > audio processor as an audio delay to compensate for the built-in video -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Mon Sep 1 22:24:33 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 22:24:33 +0100 Subject: [Tig] wow + flutter In-Reply-To: <48BC2074.3040107@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001901c90c79$21194490$4001a8c0@Sprocket> "Fe"rrous "R"ecord "R"eplay "I"nterlocking "T"ransport Had a bit of an advantage :) Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk From mfw at musictrax.com Tue Sep 2 00:07:41 2008 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:07:41 -0700 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/1/08 11:25 AM, "Rob Lingelbach" wrote: > Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the audio > vs. video? >------------------------------------------------------------< I know some location sound mixers who routinely use the Behringer DSP110 Shark to delay audio for SD feeds of HD shoots. I believe it can delay up to 2.5 seconds, which is more than you'll ever need for off-air broadcasts. These little boxes are only about $80 on eBay, but they're strictly analog and can run off batteries or an AC adapter. A digital S/PDIF equivalent will cost you quite a bit more, unless you use a surround receiver or preamp with this feature built-in. I typically encounter broadcast sound about 2 frames ahead, especially on LCD TVs or Plasma TVs. Drives me crazy, too. --Marc Wielage/Senior Colorist Technicolor Creative Services Hollywood, USA NOTE: The comments above are strictly mine, and may not necessarily represent those of my employers. From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Sep 2 15:34:51 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 07:34:51 -0700 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I know some location sound mixers who routinely use the Behringer DSP110 >Shark to delay audio for SD feeds of HD shoots. I believe it can delay up >to 2.5 seconds, which is more than you'll ever need for off-air broadcasts. >These little boxes are only about $80 on eBay, but they're strictly analog >and can run off batteries or an AC adapter. A very cool little box. Just keep in mind that it's mono, and you need one for each analog audio channel you want to delay. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From owilliams at powderhouse.net Tue Sep 2 16:38:40 2008 From: owilliams at powderhouse.net (Owen Williams) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:38:40 -0400 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1220369920.14991.13.camel@ywwg> On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 21:25 +0300, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the audio > vs. video? > > Rob I use a Felston box for exactly this purpose: http://www.felston.com/ It's a little pricy, but probably not as much as getting a new A/V receiver. owen From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 2 16:44:36 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 18:44:36 +0300 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <1220369920.14991.13.camel@ywwg> References: <1220369920.14991.13.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: <05DFB107-E070-43FD-B724-0719EF73C44C@colorist.org> On Sep 2, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Owen Williams wrote: >> Is there some kind of consumer box that can delay, variably, the >> audio >> vs. video? >> >> Rob > > I use a Felston box for exactly this purpose: http://www.felston.com/ I just realized that if I could get my Lexicon programmable guitar phase/delay/chorus/reverb out of storage, I'd be set, for analog mono anyway. be great to hear flanging effects on Rush Limbaugh, no? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From IvorW at videolab.co.za Tue Sep 2 17:17:04 2008 From: IvorW at videolab.co.za (Ivor Westpfahl) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 18:17:04 +0200 Subject: [Tig] 6635 YUV levels Message-ID: Can anyone help with documentation to align levels on the 6635 SDI to YUV cards made by Techniche and used in Probel frames? Ivor Westpfahl Senior Engineer The Video Lab Tel: 27 11 293 3000 Fax: 086 688 5499 Mobile: 27 82 5548016 http://www.videolab.co.za ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This message may contain information which is confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not peruse, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by email, facsimile or telephone and destroy the original message This e-mail was checked by the e-Sweeper Service. For more information visit our website, Clearswift Corporation e-Sweeper : http://www.mimesweeper.com/products/esweeper/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 2 18:08:51 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:08:51 +0300 Subject: [Tig] gmail misfortune Message-ID: well, gmail has taken the unfortunate step of blocking mail from the tig, which is kind of irritating. I don't personally accept the methods used by some email providers in the blocking process. Anyway, of course gmail users won't get this message, so there's not much I can do, without a couple of hours of work setting up a gmail- only TIG mailinglist on an alternate host. could be the only solution, at least temporarily. 2008-09-02 17:58:35 1KaY0o-0002UV-Of == zair at gmail.com R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection: host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [74.125.79.27]: 421-4.7.0 [89.16.227.18] Our system has detected an unusual amount of \n421-4.7.0 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect\n421-4.7.0 our users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been\n421-4.7.0 temporarily blocked. Please visit http://www.google.com/mail/help/bul \n421 4.7.0 k_mail.html to review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines. 5si10397055eyf.8 -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob at bluescreen.com Tue Sep 2 17:25:00 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:25:00 -0700 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <1220369920.14991.13.camel@ywwg> References: <1220369920.14991.13.camel@ywwg> Message-ID: >I use a Felston box for exactly this purpose: http://www.felston.com/ > >It's a little pricy, but probably not as much as getting a new A/V >receiver. Neat little box, and not a bad price for what it does. Interesting that their page looks like crap in Firefox 3 (I've dropped them an email mentioning it), especially since Firefox penetration on the machines of "technically savvy" people who would actually be interested in something like this is approaching something like 40-50%... --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From terry at finishedit.com Tue Sep 2 18:32:05 2008 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:32:05 -0400 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Bob: Be wary of trying to use two mono delays for a stereo feed. You will encounter serious phasing issues since there is absolutely no way to ensure delays are matched. It's hard enough to do with digital units. Clocks must be synchronized. On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:41 AM, tig-request at tig.colorist.org wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 07:34:51 -0700 > From: Bob Kertesz > Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use > To: tig at tig.colorist.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> I know some location sound mixers who routinely use the Behringer >> DSP110 >> Shark to delay audio for SD feeds of HD shoots. I believe it can >> delay up >> to 2.5 seconds, which is more than you'll ever need for off-air >> broadcasts. >> These little boxes are only about $80 on eBay, but they're >> strictly analog >> and can run off batteries or an AC adapter. > > A very cool little box. Just keep in mind that it's mono, and you > need one for > each analog audio channel you want to delay. > > --Bob > > Bob Kertesz > BlueScreen LLC > Hollywood, California > bob at bluescreen.com > > The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE? compositing. > For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com > > > ------------------------------ -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 "What this country needs are more unemployed politicians." -- Edward Langley From rob at lingelbach.us Tue Sep 2 18:59:36 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:59:36 +0300 Subject: [Tig] test for gmail users. Message-ID: <7B821CB9-5BAA-4244-9C10-373B14C6FB8B@lingelbach.us> well, gmail has taken the unfortunate step of blocking mail from the tig, which is kind of irritating. I don't personally accept the methods used by some email providers in the blocking process. Anyway, of course gmail users won't get this message, so there's not much I can do, without a couple of hours of work setting up a gmail- only TIG mailinglist on an alternate host. could be the only solution, at least temporarily. ----- 2008-09-02 17:58:35 1KaY0o-0002UV-Of == zair at gmail.com R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection: host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [74.125.79.27]: 421-4.7.0 [89.16.227.18] Our system has detected an unusual amount of \n421-4.7.0 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect\n421-4.7.0 our users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been\n421-4.7.0 temporarily blocked. Please visit http://www.google.com/mail/help/bul \n421 4.7.0 k_mail.html to review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines. 5si10397055eyf.8 ----- well this is what I've done, as a very temporary workaround, until I can fathom how gmail has blacklisted colorist.org for all gmail account holders. This mail will go out to the main TIG subscribership, one of whose subscribers is another mailinglist called tig_gmail_temp at tele.com , which is actually an alias to a mailinglist having as subscribers all TIG subscribers who have gmail accounts (134, currently). this is a crazy way to do it but fairly inventive. All gmail users take note: do not reply to the messages passing through the tig and then through tig_gmail_temp by using the tig_gmail_temp at tele.com address, that will only succeed in sending your message to 133 other gmail subscribers. Always use tig at colorist.org and all will work fine. thanks everyone for your indulgence. Rob From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 2 19:03:50 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:03:50 +0300 Subject: [Tig] more gmail advice Message-ID: <2678EDD1-4D19-4D18-8591-BD03B18AE5DA@colorist.org> those on the TIG with gmail accounts may have missed some TIG mail due to the blocking, please refer to the TIG archives on the wiki. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 2 19:31:58 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:31:58 +0300 Subject: [Tig] more clarification. Message-ID: <05D5E77C-7030-4B43-8040-ED14CCC577A1@colorist.org> a gmail user just sent me a mail that he had received both TIG emails (well there were really many) in his gmail account. I pointed out that he was receiving them via the new tig_gmail_temp at tele.com route, which is the auxiliary list to which the TIG forwards, in order for gmail users to receive TIG mail. So as of 30 minutes ago and maybe 3 postings, gmail account holders who are subscribed to the TIG (134 people) will get TIG posts, but they'll get them with a return address of tig_gmail_temp at tele.com . IT is ImpOrTanT not to use this address if you want to post to the TIG, but there is no easy way for me to force your received TIG messages - by mangling the header - to make replies go to the TIG instead of the tig_gmail_temp at tele.com address. SO, gmail users who want to post must manually change, when using Reply, the address to tig at colorist.org I hope that makes things clearer. it's a pretty insane workaround, and I shouldn't have to be doing it, but gmail is writing their own rules for blacklisting, instead of using RBLs or spamassassin- connected scoring. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From lucas at assimilateinc.com Tue Sep 2 19:42:59 2008 From: lucas at assimilateinc.com (Lucas Wilson) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:42:59 -0700 Subject: [Tig] more clarification. In-Reply-To: <05D5E77C-7030-4B43-8040-ED14CCC577A1@colorist.org> References: <05D5E77C-7030-4B43-8040-ED14CCC577A1@colorist.org> Message-ID: <00c701c90d2b$b95f5fc0$2c1e1f40$@com> Rob, What is the TiG doing that is triggering this? I subscribe to probably a dozen or so mailing lists via Gmail, and most of them have far more traffic than the TiG, with attachments, HTML, rich content, etc. I haven't had a problem with any of those lists... Best, Lucas ----- ASSIMILATE, inc. LA, CA, USA From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 2 19:46:28 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:46:28 +0300 Subject: [Tig] more clarification. In-Reply-To: <00c701c90d2b$b95f5fc0$2c1e1f40$@com> References: <05D5E77C-7030-4B43-8040-ED14CCC577A1@colorist.org> <00c701c90d2b$b95f5fc0$2c1e1f40$@com> Message-ID: yes, it will clear up eventually, it's because colorist.org is on a new server with a new IP and gmail does reverse mapping and saw the IP change and doesn't believe the DNS. On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Lucas Wilson wrote: > Rob, > > What is the TiG doing that is triggering this? I subscribe to > probably a > dozen or so mailing lists via Gmail, and most of them have far more > traffic > than the TiG, with attachments, HTML, rich content, etc. I haven't > had a > problem with any of those lists... > > Best, > > Lucas > ----- > ASSIMILATE, inc. > LA, CA, USA > > -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From njohnson at sc.rr.com Tue Sep 2 19:41:21 2008 From: njohnson at sc.rr.com (Nick Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:41:21 -0400 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <018001c90d2b$7f169130$7d43b390$@rr.com> I used two DSP 110's to correct lip-sync error a few years ago when LCD TV's were expensive and I had installed an NEC 2010x LCD monitor in our kitchen using a Viewsonic VB50HRTV low cost tuner/scan converter. The lip-sync was terrible (up to 175 ms) and I thought largely due to the multiple format conversions done both in the VB50HRTV tuner/scan converter and also in the NEC2010x since it had a native resolution higher than the VB50HRTV would output. I thought it would be a simple one-time fixed audio delay adjustment to offset the fixed video processing delays and LCD latency in my equipment and then I could push all the extra boxes and wires behind the TV to satisfy my wife's decor requirements but boy was I wrong! I discovered that the added audio delay I needed to maintain lip-sync varied by nearly 75 ms from program to program and it was quite different when switching networks. This not only made push button adjustment at the TV intolerable but meant I couldn't hide the little boxes so needless to say when Felston came out with their first model, a single coax input and output remote controlled audio delay in 2004, the DD340, I had to have it. Unfortunately for my analog application I needed an ADC and DAC to use the s/pdif DD340 so I considered a new receiver with lip-sync delay before investing in all that equipment but all receivers I found imbedded the delay adjustment in an obscure set-up menu making it impossible to adjust without disturbing the image. I had already learned from my Behringer set-up that wasn't adequate and that to really correct lip-sync I needed to be able to watch the talking heads while fine tuning the delay and it often changed with every program. Also most of the receivers back then offered too little delay with some having only 80 ms which I had already discovered wasn't enough. Perhaps some newer receivers have done a better job since then but even HDMI 1.3's claim of "automatic lip-sync correction" is very misleading. I have discovered all it does it "automatically" set the same "fixed delay" an ordinary a/v receiver offers "manually". It does the same thing I did with my two DSP110's years ago and does nothing to correct the variable lip-sync error already in the broadcasts and DVD's. Interestingly a large number of DVD's are encoded with the audio already delayed for some strange reason and in such cases you need to be able to lower the added audio delay below what's needed to offset the display's video delay and let the display's video delay cancel the arriving audio delay. I cases like HDMI 1.3's "automatic lip-sync correction" can actually make lip-sync worse. Here's a review of the three products I mentioned that allow remote controlled variable lip-sync correction: http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=3011 Nick -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kertesz Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:35 AM To: tig at tig.colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG Dan Mitre supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info ==== >I know some location sound mixers who routinely use the Behringer DSP110 >Shark to delay audio for SD feeds of HD shoots. I believe it can delay up >to 2.5 seconds, which is more than you'll ever need for off-air broadcasts. >These little boxes are only about $80 on eBay, but they're strictly analog >and can run off batteries or an AC adapter. A very cool little box. Just keep in mind that it's mono, and you need one for each analog audio channel you want to delay. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTER compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 2 19:51:31 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:51:31 +0300 Subject: [Tig] more clarification. In-Reply-To: References: <05D5E77C-7030-4B43-8040-ED14CCC577A1@colorist.org> <00c701c90d2b$b95f5fc0$2c1e1f40$@com> Message-ID: yes, it will clear up eventually, it's because colorist.org is on a new server with a new IP and gmail does reverse mapping and saw the IP change and doesn't believe the DNS. On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:46 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Lucas Wilson wrote: > >> Rob, >> >> What is the TiG doing that is triggering this? I subscribe to >> probably a >> dozen or so mailing lists via Gmail, and most of them have far more >> traffic -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at lingelbach.us Tue Sep 2 21:35:48 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 23:35:48 +0300 Subject: [Tig] a gmail test. Message-ID: <8660B689-0758-4ADB-B9E3-8D19A8368310@lingelbach.us> changed domain name, let's see if gmail likes this one better. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 3 08:31:49 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:31:49 +0300 Subject: [Tig] gmail accepting Message-ID: <6A37B08F-45FC-4677-9A55-F18E0E42AC4E@colorist.org> looks like the tig problem with gmail has cleared, probably many gmail subscribers got multiple copies of messages due to the delayed delivery caused by the blocking. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From Rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 3 09:10:35 2008 From: Rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:10:35 +0300 Subject: [Tig] IBC info sheet. Message-ID: the following vendor/manufacturers have placed information about their IBC presence at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 Cintel MTI Digital Vision XDT Celco other manufacturer/vendors are welcome to send me their IBC information using the above page as a guide for formatting, thank you. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 3 15:02:19 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 17:02:19 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Wilmington, NC to be first all-digital market Message-ID: <9F670711-710C-4AF8-B569-69A3D55EDAFE@colorist.org> All-digital broadcast TV will be showcased in a complete changeover in Wilmington NC- the story is at http://tinyurl.com/5okgn6 with (what is to me anyway) a very funny picture of a hapless man being explained the benefits. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From clark at garnetdev.com Wed Sep 3 15:15:12 2008 From: clark at garnetdev.com (Clark E. Bierbaum) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:15:12 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wilmington, NC to be first all-digital market In-Reply-To: <9F670711-710C-4AF8-B569-69A3D55EDAFE@colorist.org> References: <9F670711-710C-4AF8-B569-69A3D55EDAFE@colorist.org> Message-ID: <13FCD214-245E-45BB-AE88-F990C11E1E57@garnetdev.com> Let's hope a hurricane (one of which is looming) doesn't hit and poor / older people are not informed because their "old" TV no longer works. Bad timing for a southeast US coastal area!!! Clark Bierbaum Colorist / Contractor / Bon Vivant Charlotte, NC USA On Sep 3, 2008, at 10:02 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG > Dan Mitre supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > ==== > > > All-digital broadcast TV will be showcased in a complete changeover > in Wilmington NC- > the story is at > http://tinyurl.com/5okgn6 > > with (what is to me anyway) a very funny picture of a hapless man > being explained > the benefits. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 3 15:25:04 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 17:25:04 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Wilmington, NC to be first all-digital market In-Reply-To: <13FCD214-245E-45BB-AE88-F990C11E1E57@garnetdev.com> References: <9F670711-710C-4AF8-B569-69A3D55EDAFE@colorist.org> <13FCD214-245E-45BB-AE88-F990C11E1E57@garnetdev.com> Message-ID: On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Clark E. Bierbaum wrote: > Let's hope a hurricane (one of which is looming) doesn't hit and > poor / older people are not informed From what I understand, the latest hurricane is a digital storm, and only the least significant bits will affect North Carolina. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From clark at garnetdev.com Wed Sep 3 15:38:01 2008 From: clark at garnetdev.com (Clark E. Bierbaum) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:38:01 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wilmington, NC to be first all-digital market In-Reply-To: References: <9F670711-710C-4AF8-B569-69A3D55EDAFE@colorist.org> <13FCD214-245E-45BB-AE88-F990C11E1E57@garnetdev.com> Message-ID: <41EA1479-65FB-4C28-BF68-06182A111FED@garnetdev.com> I hope the "dynamic rounding" doesn't wipe away any homes - or create banding. Ouch! Clark (old enough to get it) Bierbaum On Sep 3, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Clark E. Bierbaum wrote: > >> Let's hope a hurricane (one of which is looming) doesn't hit and >> poor / older people are not informed > > From what I understand, the latest hurricane is a digital storm, > and only the least significant bits will affect North Carolina. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > From BTopazio at company3.com Wed Sep 3 15:49:41 2008 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:49:41 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Wilmington, NC to be first all-digital market In-Reply-To: <41EA1479-65FB-4C28-BF68-06182A111FED@garnetdev.com> References: <9F670711-710C-4AF8-B569-69A3D55EDAFE@colorist.org><13FCD214-245E-45BB-AE88-F990C11E1E57@garnetdev.com> <41EA1479-65FB-4C28-BF68-06182A111FED@garnetdev.com> Message-ID: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC6340117A3D1@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Can you still use the WFM601 to check out the eye pattern? -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Clark E. Bierbaum Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:38 AM To: Rob Lingelbach Cc: Group Internet Telecine Subject: Re: [Tig] Wilmington, NC to be first all-digital market 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG Dan Mitre supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info ==== I hope the "dynamic rounding" doesn't wipe away any homes - or create banding. Ouch! Clark (old enough to get it) Bierbaum On Sep 3, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Clark E. Bierbaum wrote: > >> Let's hope a hurricane (one of which is looming) doesn't hit and >> poor / older people are not informed > > From what I understand, the latest hurricane is a digital storm, > and only the least significant bits will affect North Carolina. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 3 17:21:12 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:21:12 +0300 Subject: [Tig] new classifieds, new IBC sheet. Message-ID: the subject says it all, see the TIG wiki. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From jack at surrealroad.com Wed Sep 3 21:23:58 2008 From: jack at surrealroad.com (Jack James) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 21:23:58 +0100 Subject: [Tig] line-up chart image Message-ID: Does anyone have an image of a line-up chart I can publish? Thanks Jack -- Surreal Road Emmunicate Insatiably... www.surrealroad.com Please recycle this email to prevent excess bytes clogging up the internet From rob at lingelbach.us Thu Sep 4 00:24:39 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 02:24:39 +0300 Subject: [Tig] line-up chart image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Test_Image_Generator_Program > > Does anyone have an image of a line-up chart I can publish? > Thanks From jfmann at optimum.net Thu Sep 4 02:45:14 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:45:14 -0400 Subject: [Tig] line-up chart image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201c90e2f$e04bde10$a0e39a30$@net> Jack Wrote: >Does anyone have an image of a line-up chart I can publish? Hi Jack, Do you mean a framing leader or sometimes called the 'racking leader" for a feature?...or an official framing chart like SMPTE or Dell? Jim Jim Mann Colorist PostWorks, New York 100 Avenue of the Americas New York, NY 10013 10th Floor Ph: 212.894.4000 or 212.894.4050 Fax: 212.941.0439 Handy: 516-250-0909 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann From jack at surrealroad.com Thu Sep 4 13:22:31 2008 From: jack at surrealroad.com (Jack James) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 13:22:31 +0100 Subject: [Tig] line-up chart image In-Reply-To: <001201c90e2f$e04bde10$a0e39a30$@net> References: <001201c90e2f$e04bde10$a0e39a30$@net> Message-ID: I meant the framing/racking leader. Cheers Jack On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:45 AM, Jim Mann wrote: > > Jack Wrote: > >Does anyone have an image of a line-up chart I can publish? > > Hi Jack, Do you mean a framing leader or sometimes called the > 'racking leader" for a feature?...or an official framing chart like SMPTE > or > Dell? > Jim > > > > Jim Mann > Colorist > PostWorks, New York > 100 Avenue of the Americas > New York, NY 10013 > 10th Floor > Ph: 212.894.4000 or 212.894.4050 > Fax: 212.941.0439 > Handy: 516-250-0909 > http://www.postworks.com > http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann > > > > > > -- Surreal Road Emmunicate Insatiably... www.surrealroad.com Please recycle this email to prevent excess bytes clogging up the internet From Rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 4 19:01:47 2008 From: Rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 21:01:47 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Sony probe question Message-ID: <35DB5721-5382-4324-B3C9-75B8BCC8858F@colorist.org> I'm using the BKM-14L to auto-analyze color temp on a Sony BVM A20F1M color monitor. The cursor comes up center screen and I place the probe on it and the analysis starts. 15 minutes later the X and Y coordinates are still changing, and ANALYZE D65 is indicated. The question is, how long will this take, or could perhaps there be a failure of the process in this case? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at lingelbach.us Thu Sep 4 19:27:05 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 21:27:05 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Sony probe question In-Reply-To: <35DB5721-5382-4324-B3C9-75B8BCC8858F@colorist.org> References: <35DB5721-5382-4324-B3C9-75B8BCC8858F@colorist.org> Message-ID: I solved the problem, no advice needed, thanks anyway all :] > I'm using the BKM-14L to auto-analyze color temp on a Sony BVM > A20F1M color -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From jfmann at optimum.net Thu Sep 4 22:49:29 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:49:29 -0400 Subject: [Tig] line-up chart image In-Reply-To: References: <001201c90e2f$e04bde10$a0e39a30$@net> Message-ID: <005c01c90ed8$1bab5d70$53021850$@net> Hi Jack, Yes... I have a slew of them in my gallery, that I could export as a jpeg or whatever, but all I can think of have the name of the feature as part of it. I would think we would have to seek permission first. You want 1920x1080? 3 perf or 4 perf...4 perf may be hard to locate. Jim Jim Mann Colorist PostWorks, New York 100 Avenue of the Americas New York, NY 10013 10th Floor Ph: 212.894.4000 or 212.894.4050 Fax: 212.941.0439 Handy: 516-250-0909 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann From mfw at musictrax.com Fri Sep 5 09:38:38 2008 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 01:38:38 -0700 Subject: [Tig] line-up chart image In-Reply-To: <005c01c90ed8$1bab5d70$53021850$@net> Message-ID: On 9/4/08 2:49 PM, "Jim Mann" wrote: > I have a slew of them in my gallery, that I could export as a jpeg or > whatever, but all I can think of have the name of the feature as part of > it. >------------------------------------------------------------< Panavision, Camera House, Clairmont Camera, and most of the other rental houses make up line-up charts for all their customers, usually free of charge. I would think that if you grabbed one frame and removed the name of the production (digitally erased or with a power window) and just left the reticle, nobody would sue you. This is basically SMPTE information, not protected by copyright or patent. (Keep in mind I'm not a lawyer, though I play one on TV.) --Marc Wielage/Senior Colorist Technicolor Creative Services Hollywood, USA NOTE: The comments above are strictly mine, and may not necessarily represent those of my employers. From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 5 15:49:10 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 17:49:10 +0300 Subject: [Tig] poll of subscribers, about the TIG's future. Message-ID: <881262F7-DF6B-4FF4-BADD-5DEC6B0F5F6E@colorist.org> As a TIG subscriber, your opinion is sought at http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Poll_TIG_future in answering a few questions about a possible wholesale shift in the TIG web presence, thank you. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 5 17:21:14 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 19:21:14 +0300 Subject: [Tig] poll slightly revised with comments. Message-ID: <7361F986-3169-41D3-8C1D-77897EFFDB0E@colorist.org> there is a comment feature you can use on the TIG-future poll, please feel free to leave some acerbic wisdom. the preface at the top of the page explains how to use. and a question has been added, just to make it all more interesting. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Sat Sep 6 16:44:34 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 10:44:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] flash frames Message-ID: Fellow TIGgers, Today I learned that there is a common problem known as a 'flash frame' in which a frame is ok but is balanced substantially different than its (roughly similar) neighbors. A GraphicsMagick user is looking for automated correction support in GraphicsMagick for this. How are these flash frames normally handled by commericial software? Do you manually adjust the flash frames by eye, or do automatic correctors do an acceptable job, or do you use automatic correction followed up by necessary manual fine tuning? Thanks, Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From glennchan at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 04:02:02 2008 From: glennchan at gmail.com (glenn chan) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 23:02:02 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Field Emission Technologies to purchase plant to produce "master" monitors Message-ID: http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUST26287020080702 An old article (July 1), but it indicates that FET is planning to purchase a plant to produce master monitors (that's what they call em).... i.e. broadcast monitors for professional use. It seems from the article that they didn't actually buy the plant and were still negotiating over price. Still, it seems that they might actually make it into production by the end of 2009 (though of course that date might be overly optimistic). >From what I saw at NAB, it looked promising. It doesn't flare like a CRT does so the blacks are better on almost all material. A full frame of black is noticeably brighter on FED than the CRT... I'm not sure what the issue there way (could be something to do with their prototype?). Otherwise it's like a CRT with LCD resolution, geometry. I saw a FED side by side with a CRT in Ikegami's booth and was told that Ikegami didn't bother matching the colors. We'll see how these monitors fare when they actually ship (e.g. their prototypes shown may be worse or better than what actually ships). I have no affiliation with FET. Glenn Chan Colormancer.com Toronto, Canada From njohnson at sc.rr.com Mon Sep 8 07:02:00 2008 From: njohnson at sc.rr.com (Nick Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 02:02:00 -0400 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <5A92ACA6-F827-48F8-841D-4E1A24248059@colorist.org> References: <2d4760ac0809011238i5ee57953x4bd64a9a6d3bd22e@mail.gmail.com> <5A92ACA6-F827-48F8-841D-4E1A24248059@colorist.org> Message-ID: <04c201c91178$68ef22e0$3acd68a0$@rr.com> A variable audio delay such as the Alchemy², Felston, or Primare delay boxes when used with modern flat screen displays actually give you "effectively" an adjustable video delay. For example, if the screen's video delay is 120 ms you set the audio delay to 120ms to cancel it which is perfect for material arriving in sync but if the material arrives with audio already delayed you back off on your audio delay using your screen's video delay to cancel the audio delay in the arriving signal. In this example if you lowered the audio delay to zero you are effectively delaying the video 120 ms. It is amazing how many DVD's are encoded with audio delayed. I am beginning to wonder if it is a deliberate attempt to address lip-sync error since most modern flat screen displays delay video. -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:41 PM To: Jean-Francois Panisset Cc: Group Internet Telecine Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG Dan Mitre supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info ==== sorry i wasn't clear, I need to delay video, but am not passionate about doing so, as it would involve a lot of processing. On Sep 1, 2008, at 10:38 PM, Jean-Francois Panisset wrote: > Delaying audio is of course a lot cheaper than delaying video, which > fortunately seems to be your case. I've used the Behringer DEQ2496 > audio processor as an audio delay to compensate for the built-in video -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Mon Sep 8 15:42:21 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:42:21 +0100 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <04c201c91178$68ef22e0$3acd68a0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <005601c911c1$1da4a6e0$4001a8c0@Sprocket> A video delay ? Crickey, the video is delayed enough without giving the consumer another delay ... I haven't followed this thread, just picked up here but having adjustable delay at home is a bit like secondguessing the transmission/postproduction route ... Even those who do the transmission cant seem to get the video/audio in sync from one clip to the next ...put a satelitte in the mix and you might as well listen to the audio afterwards. Hopefully "a" single DVD should have a fixed delay but I wouldn't count on it. If you spend time trying to get it right then you'll miss the whole movie. On a lighter front, I used to watch football (soccer) on satelitte from some strange country and as a result have to listen to english soundtrack on the radio ... Amazing how the commentator knows if the ball is going in then net or if it gets saved before a shot has been made. Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Nick Johnson Sent: 08 September 2008 07:02 To: 'Rob Lingelbach'; 'Jean-Francois Panisset' Cc: 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG Craig Leffel supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info ==== A variable audio delay such as the Alchemy², Felston, or Primare delay boxes when used with modern flat screen displays actually give you "effectively" an adjustable video delay. For example, if the screen's video delay is 120 ms you set the audio delay to 120ms to cancel it which is perfect for material arriving in sync but if the material arrives with audio already delayed you back off on your audio delay using your screen's video delay to cancel the audio delay in the arriving signal. In this example if you lowered the audio delay to zero you are effectively delaying the video 120 ms. It is amazing how many DVD's are encoded with audio delayed. I am beginning to wonder if it is a deliberate attempt to address lip-sync error since most modern flat screen displays delay video. -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:41 PM To: Jean-Francois Panisset Cc: Group Internet Telecine Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG Dan Mitre supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info ==== sorry i wasn't clear, I need to delay video, but am not passionate about doing so, as it would involve a lot of processing. On Sep 1, 2008, at 10:38 PM, Jean-Francois Panisset wrote: > Delaying audio is of course a lot cheaper than delaying video, which > fortunately seems to be your case. I've used the Behringer DEQ2496 > audio processor as an audio delay to compensate for the built-in video -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From martin-p at moving-picture.com Mon Sep 8 14:21:57 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:21:57 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Field Emission Technologies to purchase plant to produce"master" monitors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53C4@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> For those of you attending IBC, I've noticed that there will be an FED monitor on display on the AstroDesign stand. http://www.astrodesign.co.jp/english/astro/News/IBC2008.asp See item 3 (I'm not associated with AstroDesign or F.E.D. technology in any way) Martin Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London. www.moving-picture.com From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 8 15:54:32 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:54:32 +0300 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <005601c911c1$1da4a6e0$4001a8c0@Sprocket> References: <005601c911c1$1da4a6e0$4001a8c0@Sprocket> Message-ID: On Sep 8, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Graham Collett wrote: > > If you spend time trying to get it right then you'll miss the whole > movie. I could get it right within 5 seconds :] -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Mon Sep 8 16:07:51 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 16:07:51 +0100 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c911c4$ac329c70$4001a8c0@Sprocket> you must have missed several movies practising :) Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Rob Lingelbach [mailto:rob at colorist.org] Sent: 08 September 2008 15:55 To: Graham Collett Cc: 'Nick Johnson'; 'Jean-Francois Panisset'; 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use On Sep 8, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Graham Collett wrote: If you spend time trying to get it right then you'll miss the whole movie. I could get it right within 5 seconds :] -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 8 16:53:14 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:53:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <04c201c91178$68ef22e0$3acd68a0$@rr.com> References: <2d4760ac0809011238i5ee57953x4bd64a9a6d3bd22e@mail.gmail.com> <5A92ACA6-F827-48F8-841D-4E1A24248059@colorist.org> <04c201c91178$68ef22e0$3acd68a0$@rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Nick Johnson wrote: > > In this example if you lowered the audio delay to zero you are effectively > delaying the video 120 ms. > > It is amazing how many DVD's are encoded with audio delayed. I am beginning > to wonder if it is a deliberate attempt to address lip-sync error since most > modern flat screen displays delay video. This probably has more to do with studio CRTs being replaced with "studio" LCDs while failing to account for the processing delay built into the LCD. In other words, it is an artifact rather than due to intention or design. It used to be that all DVDs provided similar timing and were like a "reference standard" but now I am seeing DVDs with varying amounts of offset between audio and video. This is really discouraging. The quality of DVD mastering has suffered quite a lot in the past couple of years. DVD is no longer considered "special" so the special features and menus are essentially gone, and mastering is often done by the lowest bidder. Sometimes even basic video and audio quality suffers. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 8 17:10:31 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:10:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: <005601c911c1$1da4a6e0$4001a8c0@Sprocket> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > On Sep 8, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Graham Collett wrote: >> >> If you spend time trying to get it right then you'll miss the whole >> movie. > > I could get it right within 5 seconds :] I watched the film "The Good the Bad and the Ugly" and was having a heck of a time getting the audio delay right. In fact, I think I must have spent half an hour on it to no avail. After considerable frustration my wife provided the technical reason for my continuing dismay. Then I felt kind of foolish. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From ken at flight4.org Mon Sep 8 17:10:33 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 00:10:33 +0800 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <006101c911c4$ac329c70$4001a8c0@Sprocket> References: <006101c911c4$ac329c70$4001a8c0@Sprocket> Message-ID: <000601c911cd$6d9c7db0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Graham... I think this sorts the engineers from the knob twiddlers...... Maybe you should miss several movies practicing your knob twiddling!!!! Just wondering if you have any issues putting the sprocket in the hole? ;-) ken robinson >you must have missed several movies practising :) >Graham Collett >Sprockets(telecine) Ltd > www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 8 17:23:00 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:23:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad> References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Philip Mendelson wrote: > Actually, if a layback were done (or soundtrack synced) using a flat > panel with delay and that delay was not compensated for, this in itself > would precomensate for a monitor on the viewng side, that had the same > video delay You are right. My bad. It seems that some displays have much more delay than others so perhaps the change to DVD mastering is to try to assure that the consumer still has the ability to correct the problem locally. I understand that HDMI now includes some "built in" support for audio delay correction, but it seems doubtful that this is effective in anything but the most simple set-up. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From pmendelson at ascentmedia.com Mon Sep 8 17:17:55 2008 From: pmendelson at ascentmedia.com (Philip Mendelson) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:17:55 -0700 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Actually, if a layback were done (or soundtrack synced) using a flat panel with delay and that delay was not compensated for, this in itself would precomensate for a monitor on the viewng side, that had the same video delay -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Bob Friesenhahn Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 8:53 AM To: Nick Johnson Cc: 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG Craig Leffel supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info ==== On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Nick Johnson wrote: > > In this example if you lowered the audio delay to zero you are > effectively delaying the video 120 ms. > > It is amazing how many DVD's are encoded with audio delayed. I am > beginning to wonder if it is a deliberate attempt to address lip-sync > error since most modern flat screen displays delay video. This probably has more to do with studio CRTs being replaced with "studio" LCDs while failing to account for the processing delay built into the LCD. In other words, it is an artifact rather than due to intention or design. It used to be that all DVDs provided similar timing and were like a "reference standard" but now I am seeing DVDs with varying amounts of offset between audio and video. This is really discouraging. The quality of DVD mastering has suffered quite a lot in the past couple of years. DVD is no longer considered "special" so the special features and menus are essentially gone, and mastering is often done by the lowest bidder. Sometimes even basic video and audio quality suffers. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From frank at opticalart.de Mon Sep 8 17:43:52 2008 From: frank at opticalart.de (Frank Hellmann) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:43:52 +0200 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Message-ID: <48C55648.9010108@opticalart.de> Bob Friesenhahn schrieb: > > > On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Philip Mendelson wrote: > >> Actually, if a layback were done (or soundtrack synced) using a flat >> panel with delay and that delay was not compensated for, this in itself >> would precomensate for a monitor on the viewng side, that had the same >> video delay > > You are right. My bad. It seems that some displays have much more > delay than others so perhaps the change to DVD mastering is to try to > assure that the consumer still has the ability to correct the problem > locally. > > I understand that HDMI now includes some "built in" support for audio > delay correction, but it seems doubtful that this is effective in > anything but the most simple set-up. > As far as I know (I am not an DVD author myself) the AC-3 audio needs to start 80ms in advance to compensate for the Dolby decoder delay within the DVD Players. So if there are extra delays put within the audio stream this IMHO would be really bad practice. Has anybody an example, as I have not seen/heard this? Audio within the HDMI connector works sort of like embedded audio does with SDI. If you run it through a standalone unit (scaler, noise reducer...) it will stay in sync as it is delayed at exactly the same amount as the video is, but this only works if you keep the signal together, eg. use the internal speakers of your TV Set and not an external amplifier. Best, Frank... -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- OPTICAL ART Film & Special-Effects GmbH Waterloohain 6-8 Frank Hellmann DI Supervisor 22769 Hamburg frank at opticalart.de http://www.opticalart.de Tel: ++49 40 5111051 Fax: ++49 40 43169199 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg, Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 384 70 Geschäftsführer: Christian Burgdorff, Harald Lehmann From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 8 17:54:34 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:54:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: <48C55648.9010108@opticalart.de> References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad> <48C55648.9010108@opticalart.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Frank Hellmann wrote: > > Audio within the HDMI connector works sort of like embedded audio does with > SDI. If you run it through a standalone unit (scaler, noise reducer...) it > will stay in sync as it is delayed at exactly the same amount as the video > is, but this only works if you keep the signal together, eg. use the internal > speakers of your TV Set and not an external amplifier. I get the impression that the HDMI display has a way to indicate its video processing delay so that an outboard audio decoder (set top box, DVD player, receiver) can try to account for it. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From jeff.booth at ntlworld.com Mon Sep 8 21:21:32 2008 From: jeff.booth at ntlworld.com (Jeff Booth) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:21:32 +0100 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad><48C55648.9010108@opticalart.de> Message-ID: Hi, At a HDMI standards meeting in the UK about a year ago, I suggested that the display device sends back to the STB or whatever (through HDMI) its 'latency' so the audio can be adjusted accordingly. This has been fed back to the EBU etc. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Bob Friesenhahn Sent: 08 September 2008 17:55 To: Frank Hellmann Cc: Group Internet Telecine Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use 1980 subscribers as of August 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) supports the TIG Craig Leffel supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info ==== On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Frank Hellmann wrote: > > Audio within the HDMI connector works sort of like embedded audio does > with SDI. If you run it through a standalone unit (scaler, noise > reducer...) it will stay in sync as it is delayed at exactly the same > amount as the video is, but this only works if you keep the signal > together, eg. use the internal speakers of your TV Set and not an external amplifier. I get the impression that the HDMI display has a way to indicate its video processing delay so that an outboard audio decoder (set top box, DVD player, receiver) can try to account for it. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk Mon Sep 8 22:49:47 2008 From: simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk (Simon Burley) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:49:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tig] flash frames In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49995.195.149.48.251.1220910587.squirrel@mx.rpsfilmimaging.co.uk> > Today I learned that there is a common problem known as a 'flash > frame' in which a frame is ok but is balanced substantially different > than its (roughly similar) neighbors. A GraphicsMagick user is > looking for automated correction support in GraphicsMagick for this. > How are these flash frames normally handled by commericial software? Bob, I have no idea how commercial software handles flash frames, but we (well, mainly me) have implemented multiple methods of grade matching in our enhancement and restoration process. Start by looking at histogram matching. It is capable of quite remarkable things, but isn't perfect (smooth gradients on skies can be problematic in time lapse footage). This is why we implemented several methods. For examples of our work, watch either the BBC Earth movie or the Planet Earth series. Simon -- Simon Burley RPS Film Imaging Ltd T: +44 (0) 208 652 5220 F: +44 (0) 208 770 7152 M: +44 (0) 7702 732 655 e: simon at rpsfilmimaging.co.uk From mfw at musictrax.com Tue Sep 9 05:20:14 2008 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:20:14 -0700 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/8/08 9:10 AM, "Bob Friesenhahn" wrote: > I watched the film "The Good the Bad and the Ugly" and was having a > heck of a time getting the audio delay right. In fact, I think I must > have spent half an hour on it to no avail. After considerable > frustration my wife provided the technical reason for my continuing > dismay. Then I felt kind of foolish. >------------------------------------------------------------< There's a ton of bad ADR in the film. I don't think they used any sync-sound in the entire film, since I think all of Clint Eastwood's and Eli Wallach's lines are dubbed as well. That was the style for a lot of Italian productions in that era; the location tracks were just references for ADR. If the hard effects (gunshots, face punches, etc.) are in sync, then that's as good as you're gonna get. Anything else is just rubbery sync that's probably been in the film for forty years. --Marc Wielage/Senior Colorist Technicolor Creative Services Hollywood, USA NOTE: The comments above are strictly mine, and may not necessarily represent those of my employers. From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Tue Sep 9 07:46:12 2008 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts - Post Production) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 07:46:12 +0100 Subject: [Tig] video delay box for home use In-Reply-To: References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad><48C55648.9010108@opticalart.de> Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BB80@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Automatic audio syncing already exists - it was part of the HDMI 1.3 spec introduced in 2006. It allows a display device to signal its video delay back to the source (eg an A/V amplifier) and adjust the audio delay automatically. Being the owner of a non-HDMI amp and a modern 40" LCD, I can see how much of a boon this would be! Engaging various modes on my display (ie film mode, 3:2 pulldown removal, motion enhancer) significantly changes the vision delay. At present I have to have my amp set up with a 'best compromise' delay for each source... Steve (waiting for £700 of Denon amp to die so he has an excuse to buy a new one!) Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 http://www.bbcresources.com BBC Resources Limited Registered Number 3593793 England Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Booth Sent: 08 September 2008 21:22 To: 'Bob Friesenhahn'; 'Frank Hellmann' Cc: 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] video delay box for home use 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG Aaton supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== Hi, At a HDMI standards meeting in the UK about a year ago, I suggested that the display device sends back to the STB or whatever (through HDMI) its 'latency' so the audio can be adjusted accordingly. This has been fed back to the EBU etc. Jeff http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Tue Sep 9 08:02:01 2008 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts - Post Production) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:02:01 +0100 Subject: [Tig] BBC Pride and Prejudice Blu-ray Release In-Reply-To: References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad><48C55648.9010108@opticalart.de> Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BB81@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> This was in this month's Televisual: "2entertain brought in Rocket's Vince Narduzzo for the re-release of the 1995 BBC version of Pride and Prejudice on Blu-Ray DVD, which goes out in October. The HD makeover brought colours back to life and uncovered previously unseen details from 16mm negatives, such as lace and fabric texture. The sound quality was enhanced by creating a 5.1 audio mix from the original sound tracks. The original 16mm A&B roll negatives were given an ultrasonic clean, then there was a FAB Tech HD log scan of the negatives, then an HD mastergrade on Digital Vision Nucoda Film Master; frame-by-frame despotting and restoration of the picture." Having worked on the previous DVD release of this show from print (all of which had lost their highlight detail in just six years sitting in the film library and one episode of which was so warped after being cleaned for projection a few years earlier that it turned a full 180 degrees and back again between the rollers on the Spirit!) I'm very interested in the results they'll achieve. Anyone know anything about the "FAB Tech HD" scanning part of this process? Is it real-time and how does it cope with splices? I've done a lot of work rebuilding archive 'Doctor Who' film sequences from AB roll negs scanned directly on a Spirit (see comparisons at http://www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite/NewBeginnings.htm or other articles on my site http://www.restoration-team.co.uk ) but we always have to digitally repair junmping joins afterwards. In fact the last job I did using this technique was so big that it was far cheaper to have an interpos struck and telecine that - the original neg was so old that the extra photochemical generation loss was negligible in this instance. Steve Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 http://www.bbcresources.com BBC Resources Limited Registered Number 3593793 England Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 9 13:29:56 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:29:56 -0300 Subject: [Tig] BBC Pride and Prejudice Blu-ray Release In-Reply-To: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BB81@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D17B@broadway520ex.corp.ad><48C55648.9010108@opticalart.de> <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BB81@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <2D7A1410-C5A9-4AF9-B13A-0E60D372DFE7@colorist.org> On Sep 9, 2008, at 4:02 AM, Steve Roberts - Post Production wrote: > we > always have to digitally repair junmping joins afterwards. jumping joins (London) = splice bumps (Los Angeles) have to revise the glossary some day (or submit some revisions to the Kevin Shaw edition) Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.flounder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 9 13:51:34 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:51:34 -0300 Subject: [Tig] resources on the TIG Message-ID: this is a list of the resources available on the TIG that you, the subscribers, can help keep up-to-date and use for promotional purposes. Streaming of colorist reels on a dedicated subdomain- http://reels.colorist.org (flash) IBC information- see info from Aaton, daVinci, MTI, Cintel, Digital Vision, FilmLight, CELCO, XDT, Quantel, Film Systems. Streaming of flash video on the wiki (see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Flash_Extension ) RSS feed to advise you of changes to the TIG site as they happen (see wiki main page for details) Classified Ads - see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds Advice on becoming a colorist: see the FAQ http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FAQ Training options for colorists: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Training_Options_for_Colorists History of TV/telecine: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/History_of_TV/Telecine Compilations of TIG discussions from the archives: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Technical_discussions Archive search for 17 years of TIG material (over 100k messages) http://www.colorist.org/htdig/sample/search.html Useful reference links, including links to tutorials, "how to talk to a colorist," Color Space tutorials, etc. http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Useful_reference_links Photo Album (feel free to upload something and display it here, or on your personal TIG wiki page) http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Photo_albums Jim Mann provides a good example of how to use the TIG wiki personal page to effect: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Commercial Announcements: manufacturer/vendors can use this to announce their upgrades or products or demos http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Commercial_announcements and much, much more at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 9 15:30:54 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:30:54 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > Hi Rob, > > I wonder if there's a place on the wiki for this: > > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > Neal Kassner sent the above and I'm doing the test now. It's not as easy as you may think.. if i'm not too embarrassed will post my score. Will also create a link to it on the wiki. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 9 15:42:07 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:42:07 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <804FB00E-817A-4BDD-9CEC-2F62C74EAD59@colorist.org> On Sep 9, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: >> http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 >> > > Neal Kassner sent the above and I'm doing the test now. It's not > as easy as you may think.. if i'm not too embarrassed will post my > score. Will also create a link to it on the wiki. In the interests of not appearing to be self-interested, nor pretentious or autoimmune, I withhold my score. I must admit that I think there should be some qualifying remarks about the range of hues chosen, as to their qualities of lightness, chroma, and hue, because it appears the lightness of the chips does vary. it's the best of its kind I've seen however. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From DCorbitt77 at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 23:10:39 2008 From: DCorbitt77 at comcast.net (Dave Corbitt) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:10:39 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: Hi Rob, I took the test on my uncalibrated vintage eMac with CRT monitor at home. I got an 8. Can I get a job as a colorist? :-) Dave Corbitt On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > Begin forwarded message: >> Hi Rob, >> >> I wonder if there's a place on the wiki for this: >> >> http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 >> > > Neal Kassner sent the above and I'm doing the test now. It's not as > easy as you may think.. if i'm not too embarrassed will post my > score. Will also create a link to it on the wiki. > > Rob > Dave Corbitt Summit, NJ 07901 From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 9 23:19:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:19:42 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Dave Corbitt wrote: > Hi Rob, > > I took the test on my uncalibrated vintage eMac with CRT monitor at > home. I got an 8. Can I get a job as a colorist? :-) I think you're in the upper echelons of the results. So far I've heard of one score of 4, another 8, one of 12, and one of 19. But as Bob Kertesz pointed out, it could depend a lot on what display you're using, bit-depth wise. and, I wonder about the chips and how they were arrived at; I perceive not only hue changes but lightness changes, and in a 3D representation of the charts, the vectors would be what shape? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From tyler at dslextreme.com Tue Sep 9 23:31:53 2008 From: tyler at dslextreme.com (Tyler Hawes) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:31:53 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I got a 4. I don't this DELL LCD screen can even differentiate some of those midtones. From pmendelson at ascentmedia.com Tue Sep 9 23:45:29 2008 From: pmendelson at ascentmedia.com (Philip Mendelson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:45:29 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D232@broadway520ex.corp.ad> I got a 4 Yay Engineers! -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:20 PM To: Dave Corbitt Cc: Group Internet Telecine Subject: Re: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG Aaton supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Dave Corbitt wrote: > Hi Rob, > > I took the test on my uncalibrated vintage eMac with CRT monitor at > home. I got an 8. Can I get a job as a colorist? :-) I think you're in the upper echelons of the results. So far I've heard of one score of 4, another 8, one of 12, and one of 19. But as Bob Kertesz pointed out, it could depend a lot on what display you're using, bit-depth wise. and, I wonder about the chips and how they were arrived at; I perceive not only hue changes but lightness changes, and in a 3D representation of the charts, the vectors would be what shape? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From jpo at prestodigital.ca Tue Sep 9 23:50:26 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 16:50:26 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6729DB30-5E11-4774-AAAD-79F1FD9172F3@prestodigital.ca> We're both 4's then (my error was one contiguous group of 4, in the middle of the bottom row), and I'm betting that it would be easier (somewhat) on a better than 6-bit iMac in broad daylight. But on second thought, maybe some of these LCD's aren't really so horrible, just not so accurate across colourspaces. I wonder if that woman with quadrochromatic vision would think we're all a bunch of punters for even considering it to be challenge. > > I got a 4. I don't this DELL LCD screen can even differentiate some > of those > midtones. > Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From psbalfour at netspace.net.au Tue Sep 9 23:51:16 2008 From: psbalfour at netspace.net.au (P&S Balfour) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:51:16 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <804FB00E-817A-4BDD-9CEC-2F62C74EAD59@colorist.org> References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> <804FB00E-817A-4BDD-9CEC-2F62C74EAD59@colorist.org> Message-ID: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster> > In the interests of not appearing to be self-interested, nor > pretentious or autoimmune, I withhold my score. I must admit that I > think there should be some qualifying remarks about the range of hues > chosen, as to their qualities of lightness, chroma, and hue, because > it appears the lightness of the chips does vary. > it's the best of its kind I've seen however. > Rob Whacko!! A perfect score for me on my first try! I agree, some of the lightness does vary, but I feel there might be a phenomenon at work similar to viewing white intersections and seeing grey dots. Just goes to prove my doggedness at keeping my Viewsonic Graphics CRT at home for photoshop work etc has merit. I wonder what success I would have had doing this on my crappy LCD. I keep the Viewsonic calibrated by the simple Adobe tool. I have not done any grading work for close on 3.5 years now due to a forced midlife career change, but I do find the skills are like riding a bike. I now do Building Design and teach a 3D Building modelling package and I took to the rendering component, with its materials and lighting, like a duck to water. Cheers. Peter Balfour No affiliation whatsoever with anybody anywhere anymore. From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 9 23:52:15 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:52:15 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D232@broadway520ex.corp.ad> References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D232@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Message-ID: <68426C99-68B1-4F35-A87B-8B348342387C@colorist.org> On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Philip Mendelson wrote: > I got a 4 so now that this has become a contest, try the test with the following additional factors: a client on either side, gesturing and shouting that no, this should go there, that here. A client standing directly behind you, intermittently talking on celphone and talking to you, such that you can't tell which is which, and end up answering the client's comments made into the celphone. The door opens and the post supervisor/ coordinator looks at her watch and then at you, with raised eyebrows and slight alarm. Then, the crowning touch: the master grading suite engineer enters and admits he realigned the monitor's response just before the session and forgot to tell you. > Yay Engineers! Yay Colorists! :] -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rcadzow at rioting.com Wed Sep 10 00:05:34 2008 From: rcadzow at rioting.com (Robb Cadzow) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:05:34 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster> Message-ID: ....and I was feeling good with my 16... On 9/9/08 3:51 PM, "P&S Balfour" wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > >> In the interests of not appearing to be self-interested, nor >> pretentious or autoimmune, I withhold my score. I must admit that I >> think there should be some qualifying remarks about the range of hues >> chosen, as to their qualities of lightness, chroma, and hue, because >> it appears the lightness of the chips does vary. > >> it's the best of its kind I've seen however. > >> Rob > > Whacko!! A perfect score for me on my first try! > I agree, some of the lightness does vary, but I feel there might be a > phenomenon at work similar to viewing white intersections and seeing grey > dots. Just goes to prove my doggedness at keeping my Viewsonic Graphics CRT > at home for photoshop work etc has merit. I wonder what success I would have > had doing this on my crappy LCD. I keep the Viewsonic calibrated by the > simple Adobe tool. > I have not done any grading work for close on 3.5 years now due to a forced > midlife career change, but I do find the skills are like riding a bike. I > now do Building Design and teach a 3D Building modelling package and I took > to the rendering component, with its materials and lighting, like a duck to > water. > Cheers. > Peter Balfour > No affiliation whatsoever with anybody anywhere anymore. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From pmendelson at ascentmedia.com Tue Sep 9 23:56:32 2008 From: pmendelson at ascentmedia.com (Philip Mendelson) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:56:32 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <68426C99-68B1-4F35-A87B-8B348342387C@colorist.org> Message-ID: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D236@broadway520ex.corp.ad> No contest, Rob. I fully appreiciate all that you point out. I'll take the back room any day. Phil ________________________________ From: Rob Lingelbach [mailto:rob at colorist.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:52 PM To: Philip Mendelson Cc: Dave Corbitt; Group Internet Telecine Subject: Re: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Philip Mendelson wrote: I got a 4 so now that this has become a contest, try the test with the following additional factors: a client on either side, gesturing and shouting that no, this should go there, that here. A client standing directly behind you, intermittently talking on celphone and talking to you, such that you can't tell which is which, and end up answering the client's comments made into the celphone. The door opens and the post supervisor/coordinator looks at her watch and then at you, with raised eyebrows and slight alarm. Then, the crowning touch: the master grading suite engineer enters and admits he realigned the monitor's response just before the session and forgot to tell you. Yay Engineers! Yay Colorists! :] -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 10 00:31:04 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 20:31:04 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D236@broadway520ex.corp.ad> References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D236@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Message-ID: <27A18064-87D7-486D-BE25-17FA190CA67D@colorist.org> On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:56 PM, Philip Mendelson wrote: > No contest, Rob. I fully appreiciate all that you point out. I'll > take the back room any day. sometimes the back room is a nice place for a colorist to hang out with the brainiacs and shed the pressure. and I didn't mean to take you too seriously :] incidentally, I got a twelve, but I'm in South America with a lot of distractions and spent the day in scorching sun swimming and playing tennis, so I'm sure with a different mindset could have done better (and it was on a MacBook Pro). -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Wed Sep 10 01:24:08 2008 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:24:08 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65B5F@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> Add another 0 for the engineers! As much as I am trying to move away from CRT's there may be something to be learned from this...I am on a POS Dell 15" CRT. Now I need to do it on my nice new LCD at home... Bob Micheletti Engineer Universal Pictures > > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 From hxpro at cinesite.co.uk Wed Sep 10 10:33:09 2008 From: hxpro at cinesite.co.uk (Kevin Wheatley) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:33:09 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <48C79455.2010101@cinesite.co.uk> Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Begin forwarded message: >> Hi Rob, >> >> I wonder if there's a place on the wiki for this: >> >> http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 Tried this 2 times, once on my DELL 30" LCD, once on an EIZO CG241 / HP DreamColor. These devices have both CCFL (DELL and EIZO) and RGB LEDs (HP) backlights, I'm happy that it made no difference to me which I used... you can guess my score :-) It was interesting to note the perceived brightness for some of the patches made me think some were in the wrong place, but I could not find a better fit. Kevin -- | Kevin Wheatley, Cinesite (Europe) Ltd | Nobody thinks this | | Senior Technology | My employer for certain | | And Network Systems Architect | Not even myself | _________________________________________________________________________ Cinesite (Europe) Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 2820389. VAT Registration: 630 5446 60 Registered Office: HemelOne, Boundary Way, Hemel Hempstead, Herts HP2 7YU From mfw at musictrax.com Wed Sep 10 04:33:00 2008 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:33:00 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <68426C99-68B1-4F35-A87B-8B348342387C@colorist.org> Message-ID: On 9/9/08 3:52 PM, "Rob Lingelbach" wrote: > a client on either side, gesturing and shouting that no, this should > go there, that here. A client standing directly behind you, > intermittently talking on celphone and talking to you, such that you > can't tell which is which, and end up answering the client's comments > made into the celphone. The door opens and the post supervisor/ > coordinator looks at her watch and then at you, with raised eyebrows > and slight alarm. >------------------------------------------------------------< That's an easy session. It gets rougher when the executive producer strolls in just as you're going to lay down the final, and he says it's all too dark. We look up and notice that he's wearing dark glasses. The director points that out, and the producer answers, "so? I watch all my television like this." Surviving days like that is tougher than any color test. --Marc Wielage/Senior Colorist Technicolor Creative Services Hollywood, USA NOTE: The comments above are strictly mine, and may not necessarily represent those of my employers. From pdgdavin at ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 10 00:55:11 2008 From: pdgdavin at ix.netcom.com (Peter Glassberg) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:55:11 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster> Message-ID: <00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com> Out of curiosity I took the test and won't reveal my score, but I always appreciated the colorists especially in client supervised sessions. But after the test I now appreciate the colorists even more! Peter Glassberg Cell: 954-232-8676 -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Robb Cadzow Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:06 PM To: 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG Aaton supports the TIG see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 for IBC info Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== ....and I was feeling good with my 16... On 9/9/08 3:51 PM, "P&S Balfour" wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > >> In the interests of not appearing to be self-interested, nor >> pretentious or autoimmune, I withhold my score. I must admit that I >> think there should be some qualifying remarks about the range of hues >> chosen, as to their qualities of lightness, chroma, and hue, because >> it appears the lightness of the chips does vary. > >> it's the best of its kind I've seen however. > >> Rob > > Whacko!! A perfect score for me on my first try! > I agree, some of the lightness does vary, but I feel there might be a > phenomenon at work similar to viewing white intersections and seeing grey > dots. Just goes to prove my doggedness at keeping my Viewsonic Graphics CRT > at home for photoshop work etc has merit. I wonder what success I would have > had doing this on my crappy LCD. I keep the Viewsonic calibrated by the > simple Adobe tool. > I have not done any grading work for close on 3.5 years now due to a forced > midlife career change, but I do find the skills are like riding a bike. I > now do Building Design and teach a 3D Building modelling package and I took > to the rendering component, with its materials and lighting, like a duck to > water. > Cheers. > Peter Balfour > No affiliation whatsoever with anybody anywhere anymore. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From adrian at autotv.co.uk Wed Sep 10 10:48:59 2008 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:48:59 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <722EDAB4-37F5-442C-9378-90B2E769A47A@autotv.co.uk> Hmmm, I scored 4. I aced this same test when I did it at university, so I'm going to blame my monitor... :-] -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION LONDON UK WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- From martin-p at moving-picture.com Wed Sep 10 12:36:31 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:36:31 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com> Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> In order to keep the whole community from their day jobs, I have found this interesting (and quicker) test on the FilmLight page. http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/truelight/vision_test (I don't work for FilmLight) Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London www.moving-picture.com From mikko.kuutti at kava.fi Wed Sep 10 11:15:06 2008 From: mikko.kuutti at kava.fi (Mikko Kuutti) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:15:06 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <296101FC-56E4-4232-B41D-A8E10C833C25@kava.fi> I'm one more 4, quickly (maybe they should add a timer!) on MacBook Pro 6-bit wonder. Mikko Kuutti Deputy Director National Audiovisual Archive Pursimiehenkatu 29-31 A / P.O. Box 177, FI-00151 Helsinki, Finland tel. +358 9 6154 0254, mobile +358 40 900 0455 On 10.9.2008, at 1.19, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Dave Corbitt wrote: > >> Hi Rob, >> >> I took the test on my uncalibrated vintage eMac with CRT monitor at >> home. I got an 8. Can I get a job as a colorist? :-) > > I think you're in the upper echelons of the results. So far I've > heard of one score of 4, another 8, one of 12, and one of 19. But > as Bob Kertesz pointed out, it could depend a lot on what display > you're using, bit-depth wise. > > and, I wonder about the chips and how they were arrived at; I > perceive not only hue changes but lightness changes, and in a 3D > representation of the charts, the vectors would be what shape? > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 10 13:16:47 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:16:47 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> On Sep 10, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Martin Parsons wrote: > In order to keep the whole community from their day jobs, I have found > this interesting (and quicker) test on the FilmLight page. > > http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/truelight/vision_test I already suffer from paronomasia, and now there's a slim chance I'll need to find a support group for protanopia, and will have to purchase an anomaloscope. We now have sufficient tools and tests at our disposal to certify colorists, such that they won't be able to pull the wool over the clients' eyes with prestidigitation or references of distraction in order to divert attention from their own genetic deficiencies. Proposal: a small booth at next NAB (too late for IBC) with a curtain, a stool, a proper display/cpu with anomaloscope, where a colorist can emerge with ICC certification (International Colorist Composium), as having proved to the lab-coated examiner (Peter Swinson volunteering) zero deficiencies, on the Parsons-Munsell-Swinson scale of abnormality. Certificate suitable for wall mounting, assistant suitable for mounting anywhere, and wallet card with shiny seal or matte-finish walrus included, for examination cost yet to be determined. All under the aegis of the TIG and its sponsors. Could be a much sought-after certification. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From mlbnyc at verizon.net Wed Sep 10 15:19:44 2008 From: mlbnyc at verizon.net (Michael Bittle) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:19:44 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <9865A8F5-69AC-4741-A293-B70D8CCCCB04@verizon.net> Score: 16 Excuses: 1) MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.33 un-calibrated 2) Audio Guy 3) A.D.D. Cheers, Mike On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > > Begin forwarded message: >> Hi Rob, >> >> I wonder if there's a place on the wiki for this: >> >> http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 >> > > Neal Kassner sent the above and I'm doing the test now. It's not > as easy as you may think.. if i'm not too embarrassed will post my > score. Will also create a link to it on the wiki. > > Rob > -- > Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From pickettscharge at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 16:56:44 2008 From: pickettscharge at hotmail.com (Dave Pickett) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:56:44 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: <00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com> References: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster> <00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com> Message-ID: I enjoyed that test and scored a 0 in daylight on a powerbook set to Adobe 1998 RGB. Much more interesting to me was that my girlfriend, an investment banker with no color/imagery background scored a twenty. She just put the tiles quickly in order further underscoring the scientific evidence that, on average, women have better color perception than men. Now if I could only invest like her without any formal training I would be on to something. And agreeing with Rob, those tones were a little weird. Dave Dave Pickett Colorist Colorbay - Atlanta > From: pdgdavin at ix.netcom.com > To: tig at colorist.org > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:55:11 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Out of curiosity I took the test and won't reveal my score, but I always > appreciated the colorists especially in client supervised sessions. But > after the test I now appreciate the colorists even more! > > Peter Glassberg > Cell: 954-232-8676 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf > Of Robb Cadzow > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:06 PM > To: 'Group Internet Telecine' > Subject: Re: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > ....and I was feeling good with my 16... > > > > > On 9/9/08 3:51 PM, "P&S Balfour" wrote: > > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > > Aaton supports the TIG > > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > > for IBC info > > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > > ==== > > > > > >> In the interests of not appearing to be self-interested, nor > >> pretentious or autoimmune, I withhold my score. I must admit that I > >> think there should be some qualifying remarks about the range of hues > >> chosen, as to their qualities of lightness, chroma, and hue, because > >> it appears the lightness of the chips does vary. > > > >> it's the best of its kind I've seen however. > > > >> Rob > > > > Whacko!! A perfect score for me on my first try! > > I agree, some of the lightness does vary, but I feel there might be a > > phenomenon at work similar to viewing white intersections and seeing grey > > dots. Just goes to prove my doggedness at keeping my Viewsonic Graphics > CRT > > at home for photoshop work etc has merit. I wonder what success I would > have > > had doing this on my crappy LCD. I keep the Viewsonic calibrated by the > > simple Adobe tool. > > I have not done any grading work for close on 3.5 years now due to a > forced > > midlife career change, but I do find the skills are like riding a bike. I > > now do Building Design and teach a 3D Building modelling package and I > took > > to the rendering component, with its materials and lighting, like a duck > to > > water. > > Cheers. > > Peter Balfour > > No affiliation whatsoever with anybody anywhere anymore. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://reels.colorist.org > > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Wed Sep 10 18:58:09 2008 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:58:09 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65B5F@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65B5F@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65B68@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> Got a 4 at home and it was a little harder on the LCD but no conclusions about LCD vs CRT yet. > > Add another 0 for the engineers! As much as I am trying to > move away from CRT's there may be something to be learned > from this...I am on a POS Dell 15" CRT. Now I need to do it > on my nice new LCD at home... > > Bob Micheletti > Engineer Universal Pictures > > > > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > From paul at cinelicious.tv Wed Sep 10 16:18:01 2008 From: paul at cinelicious.tv (Paul Korver) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:18:01 -0700 Subject: [Tig] IBC Monitor/Projector shootouts? Message-ID: <52F15753-4B3B-4ACD-9AA2-BA095D877B26@cinelicious.tv> Still investigating 2K/4K monitoring solutions. Does anyone know if there's any interesting monitor/D-cinema projector shootouts I should be checking out IBC? Are we going to see 4K projectors from Christie & Barco or just Sony? And did I read something last week about FED on display? Thoughts on this topic are welcome. Very much looking forward to IBC. Paul Korver Principal Cinelicious From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 10 20:09:50 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:09:50 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: References: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster> <00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com> Message-ID: <25C9E1DD-1FC1-4320-A8AB-0F4B20A154F2@colorist.org> On Sep 10, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Dave Pickett wrote: > I enjoyed that test and scored a 0 in daylight on a powerbook set to > Adobe 1998 RGB. Much more interesting to me was that my girlfriend, > an investment banker with no color/imagery background scored a > twenty. the question that comes to mind is, how would you score on a test that evaluated your perception of stock market trends? if you were in the upper percentiles (as she is with our color test) then you two are perfectly matched, or else can switch can impersonate each other (pending wardrobe changes for size). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ramona at spectsoft.com Wed Sep 10 20:13:52 2008 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:13:52 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> Message-ID: <200809101213.52476.ramona@spectsoft.com> 24 :) All those years in art class paid off..... Did this in natural daylight with a bit of shade on my laptop. Cheers, Ramona -- Ramona Howard CEO/Founder SpectSoft, Inc. 375 Johnson Ave Oakdale, CA 95361 Phone: 209.847.7812 extension 104 Fax: 209.847.7859 http://www.spectsoft.com Rave - Changing the way you think about uncompressed The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose the e-mail or any part of its contents or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail. SpectSoft cannot accept responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or attachments and recommend that you subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to use. From pmendelson at ascentmedia.com Wed Sep 10 20:43:56 2008 From: pmendelson at ascentmedia.com (Philip Mendelson) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:43:56 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: <25C9E1DD-1FC1-4320-A8AB-0F4B20A154F2@colorist.org> References: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster><00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com> <25C9E1DD-1FC1-4320-A8AB-0F4B20A154F2@colorist.org> Message-ID: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D27A@broadway520ex.corp.ad> One option I would offer on that test if I had written it is to allow a box to be moved only once. -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:10 PM To: Dave Pickett Cc: 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Aaton supports the TIG Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== On Sep 10, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Dave Pickett wrote: > I enjoyed that test and scored a 0 in daylight on a powerbook set to > Adobe 1998 RGB. Much more interesting to me was that my girlfriend, > an investment banker with no color/imagery background scored a > twenty. the question that comes to mind is, how would you score on a test that evaluated your perception of stock market trends? if you were in the upper percentiles (as she is with our color test) then you two are perfectly matched, or else can switch can impersonate each other (pending wardrobe changes for size). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From mellissa at caromvideo.com Wed Sep 10 20:58:37 2008 From: mellissa at caromvideo.com (CaromVideo) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:58:37 -0400 Subject: [Tig] colorist IQ test Message-ID: Hi, Another 4 here. My off colors were the salmon type tones only. Just curious to know where others had troubles and if females err in different places from the males. I'll put the blame on the salmon sushi from last night. Mac Pro with 23" widescreen monitor so no excuse there. (former colorist...recovering colorist?) Mellissa -------------------------------- Mellissa Manzagol Carom Video Owner - Creative - Tech Director Big Rapids Michigan USA www.caromvideo.com 231-580-6148 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 10 20:50:08 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:50:08 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D27A@broadway520ex.corp.ad> References: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster><00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com> <25C9E1DD-1FC1-4320-A8AB-0F4B20A154F2@colorist.org> <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D27A@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Message-ID: On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:43 PM, Philip Mendelson wrote: > One option I would offer on that test if I had written it is to > allow a > box to be moved only once. yes, that would be nefarious. and extremely advanced, cut the chaff from the wheat, or the weed from the grass, or the ... excellent idea. let's see if we can contact the programmer for mods. it was Neal Kassner who first mentioned the test to me; perhaps he has a contact for the programmer? or we can modify the code ourselves, if he gives us license. It could be something more useful and grow to be even more important with a few modifications, even approaching a commercial product, though that depends on the initial impetus behind the project. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 10 21:03:49 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:03:49 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <9865A8F5-69AC-4741-A293-B70D8CCCCB04@verizon.net> References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> <9865A8F5-69AC-4741-A293-B70D8CCCCB04@verizon.net> Message-ID: <597F6398-2599-4102-8348-AEA097AF1DE3@colorist.org> I feel better with my 12. done in bright sunlight at Charles De Gaulle Airport. Incidentally, this is a beautiful airport architecturally (makes me want to get out my carabiners, friends-cams and ropes) but, makes little sense on the inside. a more people-unfriendly airport is hard to find. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Wed Sep 10 21:32:14 2008 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:32:14 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D27A@broadway520ex.corp.ad> References: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster><00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com><25C9E1DD-1FC1-4320-A8AB-0F4B20A154F2@colorist.org> <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D27A@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65B6A@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> Hi Phil, (Off list reply) I thought the same thing. That would make it much harder. After I roughed them in I sorted them several times moving a chip back and forth to check the fit. I'm sure a "one shot" score of 30 would be good. One of the problems of the one move version would be that you could put a single chip in the wrong spot and push a long group that is lined up correctly out of position by 1 and loose a point for each. Scoring would have to take that into account. Later, Bob Micheletti > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org > [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Philip Mendelson > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:44 PM > To: Rob Lingelbach; Dave Pickett > Cc: Group Internet Telecine > Subject: Re: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Aaton supports the TIG > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== > > > One option I would offer on that test if I had written it is > to allow a box to be moved only once. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org > [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:10 PM > To: Dave Pickett > Cc: 'Group Internet Telecine' > Subject: Re: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Aaton supports the TIG > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== > > > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Dave Pickett wrote: > > > I enjoyed that test and scored a 0 in daylight on a > powerbook set to > > Adobe 1998 RGB. Much more interesting to me was that my > girlfriend, > > an investment banker with no color/imagery background scored a > > twenty. > > the question that comes to mind is, how would you score on a > test that evaluated your perception of stock market trends? > if you were in the upper percentiles (as she is with our > color test) then you two are perfectly matched, or else can > switch can impersonate each other (pending wardrobe changes for size). > > Rob > > > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From gd.tk at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 22:16:56 2008 From: gd.tk at comcast.net (Greg D.) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:16:56 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Like I've always believed. It's the people and not the gear. I managed a zero (2nd try) on my 4+ yr old NEC LCD 1850E in sRGB mode (6500K). (I will admit to getting an 8 late last night when I first tried) However, relieved to still have "perfect color vision" at least according to these mysterious X-Rite folks. Still happily on the Colorist sidelines as a stay-at-home Dad. Now back to painting the hallway trim and trying to pick a new color for the walls. Hope everyone is having fun with this and more importantly having fun working with their clients! -Greg Dildine last "official" colorist job done in Aug. '04 From NJK at cbsnews.com Wed Sep 10 21:38:43 2008 From: NJK at cbsnews.com (Kassner, Neal) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:38:43 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: References: <545C64C7C326438082143EAEEF0C3C9C@coolermaster><00ba01c912d7$7fd8c0f0$7f8a42d0$@netcom.com><25C9E1DD-1FC1-4320-A8AB-0F4B20A154F2@colorist.org><33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D27A@broadway520ex.corp.ad> Message-ID: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C7@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org > [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 3:50 PM > To: Philip Mendelson > Cc: Group Internet Telecine > Subject: Re: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies > it was Neal Kassner who first mentioned the test to me; > perhaps he has a contact for the programmer? As I mentioned off-list to Rob when I first sent him the link, I got it from the CML-chat sub list where it was posted by Chan Chi Ying, a Hong Kong DP. I don't know the guy, but I'd be happy to contact him and ask where he got it from... Neal Kassner Colorist CBS News/NY From rogerito at terra.com.br Wed Sep 10 21:24:45 2008 From: rogerito at terra.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rog=E9rio_Moraes?=) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:24:45 -0300 Subject: [Tig] RES: Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <27A18064-87D7-486D-BE25-17FA190CA67D@colorist.org> References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D236@broadway520ex.corp.ad> <27A18064-87D7-486D-BE25-17FA190CA67D@colorist.org> Message-ID: <003d01c91383$452c6270$cf852750$@com.br> Got a perfect score on first try! First time I liked getting a zero score. But what about the monitor where the test is done? Mine is a Samsung LCD... not a pro monitor. Should in a crt perform differently? Hey guys, to be honest, that was the only best part of day... you can imagine the crappy day I´m having... > -----Orginal > De: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] Em nome > de Rob Lingelbach > Enviada em: terça-feira, 9 de setembro de 2008 20:31 > Para: Philip Mendelson > Cc: Dave Corbitt; Group Internet Telecine > Assunto: Re: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:56 PM, Philip Mendelson wrote: > > > No contest, Rob. I fully appreiciate all that you point out. I'll > > take the back room any day. > > sometimes the back room is a nice place for a colorist to hang out > with the brainiacs and shed the pressure. and I didn't mean to take > you too > seriously :] > > incidentally, I got a twelve, but I'm in South America with a lot of > distractions and > spent the day in scorching sun swimming and playing tennis, so I'm > sure with a > different mindset could have done better (and it was on a MacBook Pro). > > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > __________ Informagco do ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versco da vacina 3432 > (20080910) __________ > > A mensagem foi verificada pelo ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com __________ Informação do ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versão da vacina 3432 (20080910) __________ A mensagem foi verificada pelo ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Sep 10 22:07:42 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:07:42 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Data Cine, Spirit, Bones and LUTher lines sold by Thompson to German investment co. Message-ID: <7C23B04C-84D0-4D2E-9B67-C7777F859778@tedlangdell.com> News of the sale if just beginning to circulate on various TV and post-related websites. The most complete version of what appears to be a company press release I've found so far was here: http://www.postproductionbuyersguide.com/grassvalley_09_10_08.php ------- Thomson Sells Thomson Grass Valley Digital Film Transfer Equipment Business to Private Investors September 10, 2008 Source: Grass Valley Thomson Thomson today announced that it is selling the Thomson Grass Valley™ digital film transfer equipment business to private investors led by PARTER Capital Group, a German private equity advisory firm. The sale includes the market-leading Spirit film scanning family, together with the Bones digital intermediate workflow tools and LUTher, a colour space management product. Financial terms of the sale are not being made public. Thomson also reiterated its commitment to the film and post production markets across all its operations, including its Technicolor Content Services operations, a global leader in the post production services industry and a major user of the Spirit, Bones and LUTher products. Thomson also remains committed to the continued development and innovation in the application-critical areas of digital cinematography acquisition and nonlinear editing, including its award-winning Viper Filmstream camera and EDIUS® software. “This is a very positive move for Thomson and for the digital film transfer equipment business,” said Jeff Rosica, Senior Vice President of Broadcast & Professional Solutions business unit within Thomson. “It enables us to better focus our efforts to bring to all markets – including the very important post production sector – innovative products and solutions that deliver creativity and efficiency. And at the same time, PARTER Capital Group, with its experienced and dedicated management team, will focus its attention on the digital film transfer equipment business with renewed vigor.” “We are making this investment because we know these products are valued and respected in the market, and that they have a strong future ahead of them,” said Dr Rüdiger Terhorst of PARTER Capital Group. “In particular, we know that the development teams are highly regarded within the industry, and we want to assure the market that we will be keeping those teams together to continue their impressive work. The ongoing development of uncompromised digital film scanning tools such as the Spirit line is extremely important, and we are committed to keeping these products at the leading edge of technological advancement.” Through the transaction, which is expected to close in late October 2008 and subject to local labor requirements, all Thomson Grass Valley digital film transfer hardware and related high-end post production software solutions – including the market-leading Spirit family of film scanners and DataCine® systems, Bones workflow tools, and LUTher color space management solution will be spun off into a new international company with operational headquarters in Germany. “The Spirit family has been the industry standard for digital film scanning in the high-end post production process for more than a decade, and we have built a set of very powerful software tools around it to complete the digital intermediate workflow,” concluded Jeff Rosica. “The new company structure, combined with the dynamic and entrepreneurial management, is an ideal match for the demands of this niche post production business, and we are confident that the products will continue to thrive under their new ownership.” The 100th second-generation Spirit system has just been delivered, adding to the 250-plus Spirit classic systems still in use. A temporary forum site has been established at www.thomsongrassvalley.com/forum for customers and others seeking information about this transaction and/or service and support questions. ---------- The forum was not working just before I posted this to the TIG. Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 10 23:25:06 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:25:06 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Data Cine, Spirit, Bones and LUTher lines sold by Thompson to German investment co. In-Reply-To: <7C23B04C-84D0-4D2E-9B67-C7777F859778@tedlangdell.com> References: <7C23B04C-84D0-4D2E-9B67-C7777F859778@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <923C7ED0-5368-42D1-A8B0-DBFD040BB0EE@colorist.org> On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Ted Langdell wrote: > > http://www.postproductionbuyersguide.com/grassvalley_09_10_08.php > > ------- > > Thomson Sells Thomson Grass Valley Digital Film Transfer Equipment > Business to Private Investors this is quite a change. what does it mean, in reality? I could have written the press release myself, from a standard form: "This accession and progression into the future can only mean ________ for Thomson and for Parter Capital, in that it combines the _________ with the _________ to continue to provide the kinds of technological advances and services for which Thomson/GV are justly famous." (Anybody remember the game played in the car, called "Mad Libs?" ) but what does it really mean? 2 years from now we'll know, but in the meantime, the predictions, based on previous transfers of this kind, could indicate a very interesting opening for someone willing to decentralize (or, to coin a term, en-boutique) the business of providing all- solution scanners. Not that there aren't others perhaps poised to fill this vacuum. discussion encouraged, as this is big news for all of us here. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From nunofduarte at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 23:35:34 2008 From: nunofduarte at gmail.com (Nuno Duarte) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:35:34 +0100 Subject: [Tig] RES: Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: <003d01c91383$452c6270$cf852750$@com.br> References: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B37220160D236@broadway520ex.corp.ad> <27A18064-87D7-486D-BE25-17FA190CA67D@colorist.org> <003d01c91383$452c6270$cf852750$@com.br> Message-ID: Here goes nothing: 12 on my first time (LG LCD monitor uncalibrated) Cheers all. 2008/9/10 Rogério Moraes > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Aaton supports the TIG > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Got a perfect score on first try! First time I liked getting a zero score. > But what about the monitor where the test is done? Mine is a Samsung LCD... > not a pro monitor. Should in a crt perform differently? Hey guys, to be > honest, that was the only best part of day... you can imagine the crappy > day > I´m having... > > > > -----Orginal > > De: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] Em nome > > de Rob Lingelbach > > Enviada em: terça-feira, 9 de setembro de 2008 20:31 > > Para: Philip Mendelson > > Cc: Dave Corbitt; Group Internet Telecine > > Assunto: Re: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test > > > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > > Aaton supports the TIG > > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > > for IBC info > > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > > ==== > > > > > > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 7:56 PM, Philip Mendelson wrote: > > > > > No contest, Rob. I fully appreiciate all that you point out. I'll > > > take the back room any day. > > > > sometimes the back room is a nice place for a colorist to hang out > > with the brainiacs and shed the pressure. and I didn't mean to take > > you too > > seriously :] > > > > incidentally, I got a twelve, but I'm in South America with a lot of > > distractions and > > spent the day in scorching sun swimming and playing tennis, so I'm > > sure with a > > different mindset could have done better (and it was on a MacBook Pro). > > > > > > -- > > Rob Lingelbach > > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://reels.colorist.org > > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > > > > __________ Informagco do ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versco da vacina 3432 > > (20080910) __________ > > > > A mensagem foi verificada pelo ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Informação do ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versão da vacina 3432 > (20080910) __________ > > A mensagem foi verificada pelo ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > -- Eddie Izzard - "Never put a sock in a toaster." From ken at flight4.org Thu Sep 11 02:02:07 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:02:07 +0800 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test at NAB In-Reply-To: <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> Message-ID: <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Rob... would this certificate be available on the internet, a la 'degrees'? (visa, mastercard)... Could there be a 'bribe' pot near the beer barrel / printer...? (I will send the complete thread to Ying now...) ken robinson Hong Kong GSM: +852 972 67996 >Proposal: a small booth at next NAB (too late for IBC) with a curtain, >a stool, a proper display/cpu with anomaloscope, where a colorist can >emerge with ICC certification (International Colorist Composium), From sklein54 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 11 04:55:29 2008 From: sklein54 at earthlink.net (sklein54 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:55:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Tig] m-i-g? Message-ID: <1038897.1221105329652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> My cousin is working in the sound business and hopes to have a career as a mixer. Does anyone know of an equivalent forum such as the tig for sound mixers? Thanks in advance. scott klein R!OT Santa Monica From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Sep 11 04:58:08 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:58:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Data Cine, Spirit, Bones and LUTher lines sold by Thompson to German investment co. In-Reply-To: <923C7ED0-5368-42D1-A8B0-DBFD040BB0EE@colorist.org> References: <7C23B04C-84D0-4D2E-9B67-C7777F859778@tedlangdell.com> <923C7ED0-5368-42D1-A8B0-DBFD040BB0EE@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Rob Lingelbach wrote: >> >> Thomson Sells Thomson Grass Valley Digital Film Transfer Equipment Business >> to Private Investors > > this is quite a change. what does it mean, in reality? I understand that there is plenty of sun for all in the special technology compound in the United Arab Emirates. Dubai is supposed to be a good place to live. Enjoy! Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From ed at superdailies.com Thu Sep 11 07:44:08 2008 From: ed at superdailies.com (Ed Colman) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:44:08 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Color IQ test Message-ID: Tried it the first time late at night after the better part of a bottle of good Cabernet, scored a 16. Took the test the next day minus the Cabernet and scored a 4. Perhaps the Cabernet builds in a red bias. Cheap Acer LCD somewhat calibrated with the Photoshop tool, but not real engineering support. Old Mac G4 desktop computer, I miss my CRT. Sincerely, Ed Colman, President SuperDailies, Inc. Cinematographer Supervised Video Dailies www.superdailies.com From adrian at autotv.co.uk Thu Sep 11 10:40:28 2008 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:40:28 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 10 Sep 2008, at 22:16, Greg D. wrote: > Like I've always believed. It's the people and not the gear. > I managed a zero (2nd try) on my 4+ yr old NEC LCD 1850E in sRGB mode > (6500K). > (I will admit to getting an 8 late last night when I first tried) > However, > relieved to still have "perfect color vision" at least according to > these > mysterious X-Rite folks. > Re-taking the test isn't fair. Anyone can trial and error their way to a perfect score! -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION LONDON UK WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 11 14:26:26 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:26:26 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test at NAB In-Reply-To: <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: <1C278817-0B46-480C-97B7-A77EB850E98E@colorist.org> On Sep 10, 2008, at 10:02 PM, Ken Robinson wrote: > > Rob... would this certificate be available on the internet, a la > 'degrees'? > (visa, mastercard)... Could there be a 'bribe' pot near the beer > barrel / > printer...? an interesting idea, a little too late to do at IBC this year, but let's think about it for NAB next year, albeit with a different test so that people won't have time to practice. I was thinking not long ago of having some kind of professional imprimatur to add to colorist titles, (who doesn't love another title) like Ken Robinson, I.C.C. where I.C.C. means something like: at least 5 years of grading experience; currently working as a colorist; able to pass a test for color acuity; nomination by one's peers, a certain number of one's peers perhaps. However, it may reek a little of elitism, instead perhaps we should just make TIG tshirts available, which were a real hit about 10 years ago. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG flounder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 11 14:53:15 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:53:15 -0300 Subject: [Tig] TIG t-shirts In-Reply-To: <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: about 10 years ago, we made available TIG t-shirts for subscribers who had made a contribution to the TIG. I mailed out perhaps 100 t-shirts and I think one of the last surviving examples may still be owned by Dave Corbitt. (Dave if you have a photo of it, can you send?) Mine have disintegrated long ago, though they were of the highest quality, Hanes heavy cotton. I'm examining a similar offer to subscribers that may be ready in a month or so, and may, instead of being silk-screened, have the TIG logo embroidered tastefully on the front of the shirt and on the back the words Telecine Internet Group with the URL. I think there will be interest in this, and I believe in order to keep the process simple, I'll offer the shirts in black only (we did a white version and a black version the first time) and in order to keep costs down, need to ask what size would be most popular, this is what I'd propose: 2 sizes: Large and Xtra Large. The question is, would there be a need for X-X-Large? or a need for Medium? ideas welcome. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From mlbnyc at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 15:12:38 2008 From: mlbnyc at verizon.net (Michael Bittle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:12:38 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Color IQ test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2619DF58-81D2-41F2-83FA-F6E480D8D7E4@verizon.net> Coleman drunk = Bittle sober Mike From jp at aaton.com Thu Sep 11 16:14:04 2008 From: jp at aaton.com (jp aaton) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:14:04 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 10/09/08 17:56 Dave Pickett > my girlfriend, \..\ just put the tiles quickly in order further > underscoring the scientific evidence that, on average, women have > better color perception than men. Right, 50% women (10% men) are quadrichromic (two diff red sensors) which gives them a better color separation power e.g. subtle diff between magenta and indian rose, or between shades of orange/red (no more excuse for traffic lights). --jp From jpo at prestodigital.ca Thu Sep 11 15:40:58 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:40:58 -0600 Subject: [Tig] Color IQ test In-Reply-To: <2619DF58-81D2-41F2-83FA-F6E480D8D7E4@verizon.net> References: <2619DF58-81D2-41F2-83FA-F6E480D8D7E4@verizon.net> Message-ID: Sure, this is fun and everything, but .... moving swatches around to achieve a nice smooth continuum from arbitrary hue A to arbitrary hue B.... is this what we do for a living? With Rob's observation about the testing conditions, ie shouting, swearing, cel-phone talking, hiding-crack-bloodshot-eyes-behind- sunglasses clients and an assortment of other court acolytes playing "I drink your milkshake' with each other.... is it an honest question to ask if that is all that these folks expect (and pay for.... sometimes....) of us? Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 11 17:15:07 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:15:07 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 11, 2008, at 12:14 PM, jp aaton wrote: >> my girlfriend, \..\ just put the tiles quickly in order further >> underscoring the scientific evidence that, on average, women have >> better color perception than men. > > Right, 50% women (10% men) are quadrichromic (two diff red sensors) > which gives them a better color separation power e.g. > subtle diff between magenta and indian rose, or between > shades of orange/red (no more excuse for traffic lights). I'd always read and repeated that women have an extra X chromosome, which is at the heart of it all, perhaps that's what gives them the quadrichromic attribute? and then there are Tetrachromats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromat -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 11 17:25:13 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:25:13 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 11, 2008, at 12:14 PM, jp aaton wrote: > Right, 50% women (10% men) are quadrichromic (two diff red sensors) > which gives them a better color separation power e.g. > subtle diff between magenta and indian rose, or between > shades of orange/red (no more excuse for traffic lights). JP, can you provide a reference for this information? the best I could do was here: http://lumiere.ens.fr/~alphapsy/blog/?2006/10/30/96-sex-differences which is a bit vague. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Thu Sep 11 18:04:03 2008 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:04:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tig] Color IQ test Message-ID: <4668.10.44.0.4.1221152643.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> Hi. I tried the colour test myself yesterday (CRT close to window, and rushed the test somewhat so I could claim I didn't give it 100% if I got a bum score. I got 7 - all the errors were pairs out of order in the blue-greens and yellow greens. This test is a computer version of a classic sorting test. I nearly ought a set once. The computer dragging and dropping works very well. Anyway, you can see how the test is supposed to work on this site.. http://www.lea-test.fi/en/vistests/instruct/pv16/testingp.html You will expect to get errors in chroma and luminance when looking at a poorly-calibrated monitor. However, if your monitor can make a passable grey wedge in the mid-tones, then the bet is the gamma in all three channels is roughly the same. If your test is made of near-neutrals then the color differences are probably reproduced pretty accurately, even if the exact grey isn't. The only way to cheat would be to try the test on a Barco DP90P with very different primaries. Then, if you can distinguish the color contrasts in the presence of greater luminance shifts, then you are definitely seeing the colours and not using the luminance or some other display artifact. This is what I tried to do with the FilmLight test... http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/truelight/vision_test I can normally manage two of the last column, and sometimes I can get the third. However, this requires a good, dark room and lots of squinting and moving the head. The bottom row needs to be viewed larger than the others (presumably it uses the S receptor which are not found in the fovea). At the moment, I am using a small Mac laptop, and I can't see the last row at all. As the deltaE should be 1 for the last row, then this should be borderline visible. Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44-(0)20-7292-0400 or -0409-224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44-(0)20-7292-0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP, UK From BTopazio at company3.com Thu Sep 11 18:08:55 2008 From: BTopazio at company3.com (Bill Topazio) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:08:55 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401294FDA@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Scientific American ran an article a year or so ago about birds and insects being quadrichromic (and maybe even more?) and I think it may have referenced human populations too. I'll try to find the reference but I bet one of you out there can do it faster. -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 12:15 PM To: jp aaton Cc: 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Aaton supports the TIG Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== On Sep 11, 2008, at 12:14 PM, jp aaton wrote: >> my girlfriend, \..\ just put the tiles quickly in order further >> underscoring the scientific evidence that, on average, women have >> better color perception than men. > > Right, 50% women (10% men) are quadrichromic (two diff red sensors) > which gives them a better color separation power e.g. > subtle diff between magenta and indian rose, or between > shades of orange/red (no more excuse for traffic lights). I'd always read and repeated that women have an extra X chromosome, which is at the heart of it all, perhaps that's what gives them the quadrichromic attribute? and then there are Tetrachromats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromat -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 11 18:24:44 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:24:44 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401294FDA@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401294FDA@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: On Sep 11, 2008, at 2:08 PM, Bill Topazio wrote: > Scientific American ran an article a year or so ago about birds and > insects being quadrichromic (and maybe even more?) and I think it may > have referenced human populations too. I'll try to find the reference > but I bet one of you out there can do it faster. i guess it's not like having an Alpha channel, which is what I've always wanted. be able to selectively key in the brain, apply filters, softening fleshtone details, late at night... -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bobfesta at mac.com Thu Sep 11 19:01:55 2008 From: bobfesta at mac.com (Bob Festa) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:01:55 -0700 Subject: [Tig] m-i-g? In-Reply-To: <1038897.1221105329652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1038897.1221105329652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <43B8E7B3-DD84-4D11-90CB-63A2FE29EE0C@mac.com> Hi Scott, If this person is family...you should be advising him to run like hell away from this business. ___________________ Bob Festa 1819 Colorado Avenue Santa Monica, CA 90409 310 401-2220 bobfesta.com From bob at bluescreen.com Thu Sep 11 19:38:34 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:38:34 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401294FDA@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> Message-ID: <69pic4lsvsv4suph2fv7n5ek8ula46inns@4ax.com> >I've always wanted be able to selectively key in the brain, apply filters, >softening fleshtone details, late at night... It's called alcohol, and wherever you are, it's available at a bar near you... --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From bob at bluescreen.com Thu Sep 11 19:52:51 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:52:51 -0700 Subject: [Tig] m-i-g? In-Reply-To: <43B8E7B3-DD84-4D11-90CB-63A2FE29EE0C@mac.com> References: <1038897.1221105329652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <43B8E7B3-DD84-4D11-90CB-63A2FE29EE0C@mac.com> Message-ID: >If this person is family...you should be advising him to run like hell >away from this business. Could not possibly agree more. The production end of the biz (which is the one I'm most familiar with, unlike many on this list) has fallen on hard times, and recovery to its previous state and status is unlikely. The advent of truly cheap hardware which still makes reasonable (but not really good) images and sounds, along with a dearth of people who can actually recognize a good image and sound, has led to a decimation of the vast middle ground in production, leaving only high end feature, commercial, and VFX work on one end, and all the rest of the crap on the other. I would strongly advise anyone I liked to run far, far away. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From jp at aaton.com Thu Sep 11 22:08:41 2008 From: jp at aaton.com (jp aaton) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:08:41 +0200 Subject: [Tig] m-i-g? In-Reply-To: <1038897.1221105329652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: 11/09/08 5:55 Scott Klein/R!OT Santa Monica > My cousin is working in the sound business and hopes to have a career > as a mixer. Does anyone know of an equivalent forum such as the > tig for sound mixers? he could subscribe to the IBSNET at MAILTALK.AC.UK group. Of all 'audio recording' mailing lists, the most focused, with contributions from the best UK engineers. Lightly moderated for a quite high signal to noise ratio. http://www.ibs.org.uk --jp From clark at garnetdev.com Fri Sep 12 03:30:44 2008 From: clark at garnetdev.com (Clark E. Bierbaum) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:30:44 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Colorist IQ Test and the ladies In-Reply-To: <69pic4lsvsv4suph2fv7n5ek8ula46inns@4ax.com> References: <8B0BA2808E4CEA47B36553F01A9EC63401294FDA@harbor250ex2.corp.ad> <69pic4lsvsv4suph2fv7n5ek8ula46inns@4ax.com> Message-ID: As the rednecks say: The Budweiser scale of beauty - as in she's a 12 meaning it takes 12 beers to make her beautiful. Clark (InBev scale of beauty??) Bierbaum Colorist, Contractor, Bourbon Drinker Charlotte, NC On Sep 11, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > >> I've always wanted be able to selectively key in the brain, >> apply filters, >> softening fleshtone details, late at night... > > It's called alcohol, and wherever you are, it's available at a bar > near you... > > --Bob > > Bob Kertesz > BlueScreen LLC > Hollywood, California > bob at bluescreen.com > > The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. > For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 12 14:37:01 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:37:01 -0300 Subject: [Tig] source for color wheel Message-ID: <449171C0-7E37-415C-A28E-4CA56B5E4825@colorist.org> I have lost the original reference, found somewhere on the web, of the color wheel used in the tig logo, as seen at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 . I need to use the original in order to design the TIG t-shirts... if anyone runs across it before I do, I'd really appreciate hearing, thanks a lot. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From kabanbenedek at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 11:29:10 2008 From: kabanbenedek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Benedek_Kab=E1n?=) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:29:10 +0200 Subject: [Tig] TIG t-shirts In-Reply-To: References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: Medium would be nice for smaller colorists... Benedek Kaban Digital Film Colourist email: mail at kabanbenedek.com web: www.kabanbenedek.com www.benedekkaban.com From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 12 14:48:14 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:48:14 -0300 Subject: [Tig] source for color wheel In-Reply-To: <449171C0-7E37-415C-A28E-4CA56B5E4825@colorist.org> References: <449171C0-7E37-415C-A28E-4CA56B5E4825@colorist.org> Message-ID: <4BB0969A-5CD4-440E-9E6D-BB981B130F74@colorist.org> found it, no need for help thanks. On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > I have lost the original reference, found somewhere on the web, of > the color wheel -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at lingelbach.us Fri Sep 12 17:21:44 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:21:44 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Super 8 to HD References: Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: mailman-bounces at colorist.org > Date: September 12, 2008 1:19:05 PM GMT-03:00 > To: tig-owner at colorist.org > Subject: Content filtered message notification > > The attached message matched the tig mailing list's content filtering > rules and was prevented from being forwarded on to the list > membership. You are receiving the only remaining copy of the > discarded message. > > > From: "bob johanson" > Date: September 12, 2008 1:18:49 PM GMT-03:00 > To: > Subject: S8 and Reg 8mm to HD > > > Have a rather large amount of film for a client that needs to be > transfer to HD. > > Does anybody have any recommendations. > > Would like Vertical letterbox to HDcam if possible. > > tia > > Bobby Johanson > > > > From colourdiva at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 18:14:51 2008 From: colourdiva at gmail.com (laura jansfazio) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:14:51 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <737DCC7C18894EC4A60FD60C7803B391@ljf13> ok I did ok not as good as I wanted to---higher than those who chose to share their score---- 25!!! maybe u boyz r colorblind.....teehee My Best, lj Laura Jans Fazio 818.730.9478 mbl 818.784.9121 hm colourdiva at gmail.com lmjfazio13 at sbcglobal.net www.laurajansfazio.com www.facebook.com www.linkdin.com PLS consider the environment before needing to print this email : ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Lingelbach" To: "Group Internet Telecine" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:30 AM Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet ( http://sohonet.co.uk ) brings the TIG > Aaton supports the TIG > see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGIBCFS08 > for IBC info > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > > Begin forwarded message: >> Hi Rob, >> >> I wonder if there's a place on the wiki for this: >> >> http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 >> > > Neal Kassner sent the above and I'm doing the test now. It's not as > easy as you may think.. if i'm not too embarrassed will post my score. > Will also create a link to it on the wiki. > > Rob > -- > Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From colourdiva at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 18:21:44 2008 From: colourdiva at gmail.com (laura jansfazio) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:21:44 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test Message-ID: I viewed the test on an HP 17" LCD laptop. (circa 2005-6) My Best, lj Laura Jans Fazio 818.730.9478 mbl 818.784.9121 hm colourdiva at gmail.com lmjfazio13 at sbcglobal.net www.laurajansfazio.com www.facebook.com www.linkdin.com PLS consider the environment before needing to print this email : ) From colourdiva at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 18:30:44 2008 From: colourdiva at gmail.com (laura jansfazio) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:30:44 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Fwd: Colorist IQ Test References: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F2663C4@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> <296101FC-56E4-4232-B41D-A8E10C833C25@kava.fi> Message-ID: <9027D7E14EDF4ECDAA41BF86E03DC80C@ljf13> Must be the MacBooks' screens.... : ) LJ From ed at superdailies.com Fri Sep 12 18:43:39 2008 From: ed at superdailies.com (Ed Colman) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:43:39 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Super 8 to HD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DE2CDE9-3679-418E-84B4-68BFE1531D19@superdailies.com> >> From: "bob johanson" >> Date: September 12, 2008 1:18:49 PM GMT-03:00 >> To: >> Subject: S8 and Reg 8mm to HD >> >> >> Have a rather large amount of film for a client that needs to be >> transfer to HD. >> >> Does anybody have any recommendations. >> >> Would like Vertical letterbox to HDcam if possible. >> >> tia >> >> Bobby Johanson Pro 8 in Burbank. Sincerely, Ed Colman, President SuperDailies, Inc. Cinematographer Supervised Video Dailies www.superdailies.com From rob at cinelab.com Fri Sep 12 19:04:01 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:04:01 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Super 8 to HD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E2C899-7078-4181-A584-A04F5E7C5560@cinelab.com> Super-8 to HD: Flying Spot in Seattle with a Shadow and S8 gate www.fsft.com Pro-8mm in LA with a Millenium-II and S8 gate www.pro8mm.com Technicolor in NYC with a Spirit and S8 gate... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From stipantim at yahoo.com Fri Sep 12 17:40:17 2008 From: stipantim at yahoo.com (Tim Stipan) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:40:17 EDT Subject: [Tig] Super 8 to HD Message-ID: We can xfer super 8 on our Spirit to any HD tape format at Technicolor New York. 212.609.9400 We can not do Regular 8 however. Tim Stipan -----Original Message----- From: "Rob Lingelbach" To: "Group Internet Telecine" Sent: 9/12/2008 12:27 PM Subject: [Tig] Super 8 to HD 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Aaton supports the TIG Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org ==== Begin forwarded message: > From: mailman-bounces at colorist.org > Date: September 12, 2008 1:19:05 PM GMT-03:00 > To: tig-owner at colorist.org > Subject: Content filtered message notification > > The attached message matched the tig mailing list's content filtering > rules and was prevented from being forwarded on to the list > membership. You are receiving the only remaining copy of the > discarded message. > > > From: "bob johanson" > Date: September 12, 2008 1:18:49 PM GMT-03:00 > To: > Subject: S8 and Reg 8mm to HD > > > Have a rather large amount of film for a client that needs to be > transfer to HD. > > Does anybody have any recommendations. > > Would like Vertical letterbox to HDcam if possible. > > tia > > Bobby Johanson > > > > _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 12 20:47:19 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:47:19 -0300 Subject: [Tig] new TIG t mockup, with old version for reference Message-ID: <15274DF6-4298-48E8-8F57-139C302CF32A@colorist.org> see for the old (ca. 1998) TIG shirt and a rough mockup of the new one, which will have the color wheel embroidered, if it's not too expensive. The black square surrounding the wheel will not be part of the shirt. ref: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/NEW_TIG_TEEs The back will have simple white lettering as is on the color wheel, but further down the back from where the old shirt's lettering was. Available in black only, though perhaps some very special orders will be taken for white. Sizes to be determined, but it's going to be hard to keep a stock of all desired sizes.. will have more info in a week or two. Target availability is November, in time for the holidays. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From mlbnyc at verizon.net Fri Sep 12 20:56:29 2008 From: mlbnyc at verizon.net (Michael Bittle) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:56:29 -0400 Subject: [Tig] TIG t-shirts In-Reply-To: References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: ...smaller engineers as well! Mike Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2008, at 6:29, "Benedek Kabán" wrote: > > Medium would be nice for smaller colorists... > > Benedek Kaban > > Digital Film Colourist > > email: mail at kabanbenedek.com > > web: www.kabanbenedek.com > www.benedekkaban.com > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at lingelbach.us Fri Sep 12 22:16:58 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:16:58 -0300 Subject: [Tig] TIG t-shirts In-Reply-To: References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org> <003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: On Sep 12, 2008, at 4:56 PM, Michael Bittle wrote: > ...smaller engineers as well! > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone smaller facility managers too! Rob Sent from my SAT-MICRO-CHAN (worldwide including Antarctica) From colourdiva at gmail.com Sat Sep 13 02:58:42 2008 From: colourdiva at gmail.com (laura jansfazio) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Tig] TIG t-shirts References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB53E6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local><0CDC9611-AB0C-4709-B921-29B0B066C943@colorist.org><003301c913aa$046adc90$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: <9FB41E10D10645D0B40F0FFB834878F9@ljf13> I think it'd look cool on the arm sleeve rather than on the typical front or back. My Best, lj Laura Jans Fazio 818.730.9478 mbl 818.784.9121 hm colourdiva at gmail.com lmjfazio13 at sbcglobal.net www.laurajansfazio.com www.facebook.com www.linkdin.com PLS consider the environment before needing to print this email : ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Bittle" To: "Benedek Kabán" Cc: "Rob Lingelbach" Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [Tig] TIG t-shirts > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Aaton supports the TIG > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > ...smaller engineers as well! > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2008, at 6:29, "Benedek Kabán" wrote: >> >> Medium would be nice for smaller colorists... >> >> Benedek Kaban >> >> Digital Film Colourist >> >> email: mail at kabanbenedek.com >> >> web: www.kabanbenedek.com >> www.benedekkaban.com >> _______________________________________________ >> http://reels.colorist.org >> http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From teekayto at googlemail.com Mon Sep 15 11:24:20 2008 From: teekayto at googlemail.com (Mark Knights) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:24:20 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Old Kodak stock records Message-ID: <3932a0f90809150324v19ff919q55e4c593c7fc6f6d@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone (probably at Kodak) have or know whereabouts of Kodak stock purchases from 1919 and 1920? The reason I ask is that I have come into possession of a reel of Nitrate print which I have dated as 1919, the contant is most probably the Nabi Musa riot in April 1920 (Jerusalem). I want to find out who bought the stock, and who shot the footage. Any help or advice would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance, Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Mark Knights Freelance Telecine Colourist 07939 609 098 (mobile) From timothyhuber at mac.com Sun Sep 14 03:54:03 2008 From: timothyhuber at mac.com (timothy norman huber) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:54:03 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Live from London: 32 million pixel Super Hi-Vision Message-ID: 7,680 x 4,320 pixel (32 million pixels) images at 60 progressive frames a second, with 22.2 channel immersive audio. http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=S2Q2FCNB10SSQQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=210601412 :-) Timothy Huber Strategic Account Development tim.huber (at) metaram.com cell 310 795.6599 MetaRAM Inc. 181 Metro Drive, Suite 400 San Jose, CA 95110 http://www.linkedin.com/in/timhuber From peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com Sun Sep 14 11:52:43 2008 From: peter.stansfield at wavecrest-systems.com (peter stansfield) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:52:43 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Technology Demos at IBC In-Reply-To: <524B44C9C0E8468EAC97158C432C08A6@Frog> References: <524B44C9C0E8468EAC97158C432C08A6@Frog> Message-ID: <6911B855-0151-4BF6-A91E-931898E1DA80@wavecrest-systems.com> Hi to everyone that's at IBC at the moment. Following our London technology demonstrations of the European SALERO project, we're doing updated demonstrations tomorrow downtown in Amsterdam See http://www.salero.eu/en/events/index.html We're not selling anything, just trying to carry out University level research to shape the future of media production. All are welcome to come and advise us - It's a 'drop in' event between 4pm and 8pm - and we're providing a buffet & drinks Regards Peter Stansfield For the SALERO project From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 15 16:29:51 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:29:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Live from London: 32 million pixel Super Hi-Vision In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Sep 2008, timothy norman huber wrote: > 7,680 x 4,320 pixel (32 million pixels) images at 60 progressive frames a > second, with 22.2 channel immersive audio. > > http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=S2Q2FCNB10SSQQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=210601412 Only engineers read EE Times. You are showing your dark side. In 1994 I was telling everyone I worked with that it was necessary to have at least 100Mbit to every home before digital technologies can be properly unleased (and am still waiting). But now I see that at least 600Mbit is a requirement so perhaps the new per-home requirement is 1GBit. :-) It is little wonder that someone from FOX thought that no one would see the difference since they were the last major network to broadcast prime-time programming in HD (they used 480P instead). We did see the difference. Given a suitable non-invasive display mechanism, I think that most middle-class homes can support an 80" diagonal display. They just don't know it yet. The content should be captured differently for large high-resolution displays. Closeups of pore-pocked talking heads are a no-no. Immersive programming is the way of the future. Immersive programming allows the viewer to comfortably sit much closer to the display where the extra resolution makes a difference. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From bob at bluescreen.com Mon Sep 15 15:37:00 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:37:00 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Live from London: 32 million pixel Super Hi-Vision In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >7,680 x 4,320 pixel (32 million pixels) images at 60 progressive >frames a second, with 22.2 channel immersive audio. > >http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=S2Q2FCNB10SSQQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=210601412 What I find most disturbing about the article is how Andrew Setos, identified in the article as president of engineering at the Fox Group, viciously slams the format repeatedly in the article. It's almost as if, you know, Fox had their own agenda or an axe to grind here. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From dave at pixelfarm.com Mon Sep 15 15:47:50 2008 From: dave at pixelfarm.com (Dave Sweet) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:47:50 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Our aging Da Vinci In-Reply-To: <6911B855-0151-4BF6-A91E-931898E1DA80@wavecrest-systems.com> References: <524B44C9C0E8468EAC97158C432C08A6@Frog> <6911B855-0151-4BF6-A91E-931898E1DA80@wavecrest-systems.com> Message-ID: Anyone know of a good source of parts supply for a ten-year-old DaVinci DUI 8:8:8 system? I've seen a few out there for sale and more than a few 2K systems for sale but would like to see if by chance someone would care to sell individual components (we're in need of the video output board for instance - which is no longer supported by Da Vinci). I won't bother asking about the vacuum tubes. From mario.fuchs at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 15:09:12 2008 From: mario.fuchs at gmail.com (Mario Fuchs) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:09:12 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Old Kodak stock records In-Reply-To: <3932a0f90809150324v19ff919q55e4c593c7fc6f6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <3932a0f90809150324v19ff919q55e4c593c7fc6f6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Not my area of expertise, but i asked our leading man in the field. This is what he has to say: You might be able to trace some information by looking at the "Date Code Symbols" and "Factory Identification Code" on the film. >From that information you will be able to see where the film was produced, and when. See more here: http://www.historicphotoarchive.com/f1/ekcode.html Regards, Mario Fuchs Technical Post Services Manager Nordisk Film Post Production Stockholm 2008/9/15 Mark Knights : > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Aaton supports the TIG > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Does anyone (probably at Kodak) have or know whereabouts of Kodak stock > purchases from 1919 and 1920? > The reason I ask is that I have come into possession of a reel of Nitrate > print which I have dated as 1919, the contant is most probably the Nabi Musa > riot in April 1920 (Jerusalem). > I want to find out who bought the stock, and who shot the footage. > > Any help or advice would be gratefully received. > > Thanks in advance, > > Mark > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Mark Knights > Freelance Telecine Colourist > > 07939 609 098 (mobile) > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From teekayto at googlemail.com Mon Sep 15 16:22:13 2008 From: teekayto at googlemail.com (Mark Knights) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:22:13 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Old Kodak stock records In-Reply-To: References: <3932a0f90809150324v19ff919q55e4c593c7fc6f6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3932a0f90809150822s2ecb6d8an6814a1d95352e665@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for that. I have already identified the film as being from Rochester 1919. I am really hoping there are records to say that 'Jo Bloggs' bought the film stock for $??.00 for X production/organisation. This would shed more light on its origins. Thanks again. Mark 2008/9/15 Mario Fuchs > Hi, > Not my area of expertise, but i asked our leading man in the field. > This is what he has to say: > > You might be able to trace some information by looking at the "Date > Code Symbols" and "Factory Identification Code" on the film. > From that information you will be able to see where the film was > produced, and when. > > See more here: > http://www.historicphotoarchive.com/f1/ekcode.html > > Regards, > Mario Fuchs > > Technical Post Services Manager > Nordisk Film Post Production Stockholm > > > 2008/9/15 Mark Knights : > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > > Aaton supports the TIG > > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > > ==== > > > > > > Does anyone (probably at Kodak) have or know whereabouts of Kodak stock > > purchases from 1919 and 1920? > > The reason I ask is that I have come into possession of a reel of Nitrate > > print which I have dated as 1919, the contant is most probably the Nabi > Musa > > riot in April 1920 (Jerusalem). > > I want to find out who bought the stock, and who shot the footage. > > > > Any help or advice would be gratefully received. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Mark > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Mark Knights > > Freelance Telecine Colourist > > > > 07939 609 098 (mobile) > > _______________________________________________ > > http://reels.colorist.org > > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > > > -- Mark Knights Freelance Telecine Colourist 07939 609 098 (mobile) From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Mon Sep 15 17:36:39 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:36:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Live from London: 32 million pixel Super Hi-Vision In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Bob Kertesz wrote: > > It's almost as if, you know, Fox had their own agenda or an axe to grind here. Fox is likely worried about invalidating their new digital broadcast infrastructure, as their previous digital broadcast infrastructure was invalidated. They don't have much to worry about at this time. Without a doubt, home displays will soon offer more than 1920x1080 but as an upconvert from existing standard resolutions. 3K and 4K resolutions are quite feasable when using display technologies which only require additional replication of pixel elements. In some cases it is easier to replicate fixed-size pixels rather than make the pixels larger since the fixed-size pixels support large-scale maufacturing. Only the backing display driver needs to be changed. It seems that 1080P will soon catch on in the home (already available via Blu-Ray and limited DISH broadcasts), and this progressive format is easily scaled up without annoying artifacts. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From cased at atlab.com.au Tue Sep 16 02:05:41 2008 From: cased at atlab.com.au (Dominic Case) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:05:41 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Old Kodak stock records Message-ID: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B510271D2F2@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> > I am really hoping there are records to say that 'Jo Bloggs' bought the film > stock for $??.00 for X production/organisation. I suspect you are being a bit over-optimistic about this. But the best resource would be the film archive list amia-l at http://lsv.uky.edu/archives/amia-l.html - they have an enormously wide range of expertise on the list, and many subscribers are in fact film researchers, so they'd know where to look. _________________________________ Dominic Case Atlab Australia ________________________________ views expressed here may be mine alone ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From mikko.kuutti at kava.fi Tue Sep 16 13:34:17 2008 From: mikko.kuutti at kava.fi (Mikko Kuutti) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:34:17 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Old Kodak stock records In-Reply-To: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B510271D2F2@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> References: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B510271D2F2@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> Message-ID: <4E2A2BF1-786C-49CD-BF3A-189C5BE9246D@kava.fi> The film industry was already quite busy in 1919 so I too suspect that finding "the buyer of the film" is a bit like asking "who bought the HDCAM cassette" today. There is a FIAF member film archive in Jerusalem (http://www.jer-cin.org.il ), you might find someone to help you there. Mikko Kuutti Deputy Director National Audiovisual Archive Pursimiehenkatu 29-31 A / P.O. Box 177, FI-00151 Helsinki, Finland tel. +358 9 6154 0254, mobile +358 40 900 0455 On 16.9.2008, at 4.05, Dominic Case wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Aaton supports the TIG > Stream your reel at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > >> I am really hoping there are records to say that 'Jo Bloggs' bought >> the > film >> stock for $??.00 for X production/organisation. > > I suspect you are being a bit over-optimistic about this. > > But the best resource would be the film archive list amia-l at > http://lsv.uky.edu/archives/amia-l.html - they have an enormously > wide range > of expertise on the list, and many subscribers are in fact film > researchers, > so they'd know where to look. > > _________________________________ > Dominic Case > Atlab Australia > ________________________________ From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 16 14:49:10 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:49:10 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Old Kodak stock records In-Reply-To: <4E2A2BF1-786C-49CD-BF3A-189C5BE9246D@kava.fi> References: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B510271D2F2@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> <4E2A2BF1-786C-49CD-BF3A-189C5BE9246D@kava.fi> Message-ID: <75C3189F-646E-41A2-A9DD-38AE1C83C537@colorist.org> On Sep 16, 2008, at 2:34 PM, Mikko Kuutti wrote: > "the buyer of the film" sung to the tune of The Shadow of Your Smile: The buyer of the film is lost ... in time The crew that worked the shoot are ghosts.... sublime And if you're of a mind to find.... the grips, the gear, the sets, the lead.... May luck be yours to let This quest ... succeed. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 16 21:29:01 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:29:01 -0300 Subject: [Tig] need to be strident Message-ID: Here is a wake-up call for all colorists: **PUT YOUR REEL ON THE http://reels.colorist.org SITE. Please send to rob (at) colorist.org in flv format. IT IS THE BEST EXPOSURE YOU CAN RECEIVE. **CLASSIFIEDS: GO TO http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds AND THEN SEND YOUR CLASSIFIED TO rob (at) colorist.org. NO BETTER EXPOSURE CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED. **COMMERCIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS: go to http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/ Commercial_announcements AND PLACE YOUR AD- SEND FIRST TO rob at colorist.org for formatting. **WANT YOUR LOGO ON THE TIG SITE? send it and details to rob (@) colorist.org and we'll see how we can accomodate. **Would you like a TIG T-SHIRT? soon available, at a webstore in your actual neighborhood block! best regards -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From agustingoya at wancamp.com.ar Wed Sep 17 18:41:42 2008 From: agustingoya at wancamp.com.ar (Agustin Goya | Wancamp) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:41:42 -0300 Subject: [Tig] OT - Mr. Pixel and Mrs. Grain Short Film Message-ID: <46f4bf60809171041w4ccd3289i208e4b18eb6769e9@mail.gmail.com> I thoght some may find this funny. hope you like it. Session 1 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VEg07bA1gzs&feature=related# Session 2 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xM4xH-jZ1NU&feature=user Session 3 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M4c3lwyYyxo&feature=user -- Agustin Goya WANCAMP | POST +54-911-6545-2427 011-15-65452427 http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2339496/ http://www.wancamp.com.ar/ From ken at flight4.org Wed Sep 17 18:41:48 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:41:48 +0800 Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 Message-ID: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> 21 megapixles and full HD 1920 x 1080 video record for up to 4gb.of video. Next year, I understand the Mk3 comes with 65mm gate.. OK, the last bit I added. but pretty mental anyway, no? And seems to be under US$4k including lens. Taking on Red one wonders, hahaha. Ken Robinson Hong Kong From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Wed Sep 17 22:30:44 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:30:44 +0100 Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 In-Reply-To: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: <4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket> 65/70mm Mkiii's have been around for years !!! Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk ==== 21 megapixles and full HD 1920 x 1080 video record for up to 4gb.of video. Next year, I understand the Mk3 comes with 65mm gate.. OK, the last bit I added. but pretty mental anyway, no? And seems to be under US$4k including lens. Taking on Red one wonders, hahaha. Ken Robinson Hong Kong _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From ken at flight4.org Thu Sep 18 03:26:42 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:26:42 +0800 Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 In-Reply-To: <4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket> References: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> <4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket> Message-ID: <001501c91936$01c62120$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Yeah, but I am talking about a DSLR. ken robinson Hong Kong -----Original Message----- From: Graham Collett [mailto:grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 05:31 To: 'Ken Robinson'; 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: RE: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 65/70mm Mkiii's have been around for years !!! Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk From rlovejoy at comcast.net Thu Sep 18 03:52:22 2008 From: rlovejoy at comcast.net (Robert Lovejoy) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:52:22 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Animated/Morphing mattes References: <46f4bf60809171041w4ccd3289i208e4b18eb6769e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51498FFF9AEC46AB82FBCB702F90870A@RobertPC> Hello all, One of our clients was telling us about a system he'd worked with in which the colorist was able to draw a matte on the first frame and last frame of a shot, and the system would morph the matte shape automatically as the shot ran. It also had the ability to edit the morph or animation with keyframes. Of course he wasn't able to supply the name of the system or discern if it was an add-on to a system or built in. Might anyone here be familiar with a device that has this capability? Thanks for any help, Bob Lovejoy Shooters Post & Transfer Philadelphia, PA USA From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 18 04:34:33 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:34:33 -0300 Subject: [Tig] semi OT: flesh tone softening in PS Message-ID: <43C4BDF3-98CE-45EB-BE2D-45097F45BE56@colorist.org> I've done a fair amount of googling regarding the following conditions: 1) model, with complexion anomalies that need softening. 2) highlights of eyes, etc. must not be affected by any blur effect. I've found plugins for Photoshop but they don't fill the bill, there must be a way within PS itself to create a mask based on the fleshtone and then use it as input for the blur effect? Please forgive my insignificant knowledge of PS. I have no financial or other interest in Adobe. thanks very much in advance. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at lingelbach.us Thu Sep 18 04:36:43 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:36:43 -0300 Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 In-Reply-To: <001501c91936$01c62120$8f1ea8c0@flight4> References: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> <4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket> <001501c91936$01c62120$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: On Sep 17, 2008, at 11:26 PM, Ken Robinson wrote: > > Yeah, but I am talking about a DSLR. frame rate is ? From ken at flight4.org Thu Sep 18 05:13:42 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:13:42 +0800 Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 In-Reply-To: References: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> <4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket> <001501c91936$01c62120$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: <003301c91944$f0f972c0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> I was reading from here: http://www.vistek.ca/store/ProPhotoCanon/239663/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-body.as px ken robinson Hong Kong -----Original Message----- From: Rob Lingelbach [mailto:rob at lingelbach.us] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:37 To: Ken Robinson Cc: 'Graham Collett'; 'Group Internet Telecine' Subject: Re: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 On Sep 17, 2008, at 11:26 PM, Ken Robinson wrote: > > Yeah, but I am talking about a DSLR. frame rate is ? From adrian at autotv.co.uk Thu Sep 18 10:18:29 2008 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:18:29 +0100 Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 In-Reply-To: References: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> <4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket> <001501c91936$01c62120$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: <832FB5D6-5957-4603-915B-97BF8DEACFD6@autotv.co.uk> > On 18 Sep 2008, at 04:36, Rob Lingelbach wrote: >> >> frame rate is ? >> >> 30fps only. 12 minute per shot limit in 1920x1080, 40Mbps H.264 compression. MUCH bigger sensor than a Red cam, and all those lovely fast, IS, EF lenses to choose from, but pretty heavy video compression. I did download a couple of clips and brought them into an HD timeline. Impressive, but a step along the road rather than the destination. Expect DSLR video to get better and better until camcorders have nowhere to hide. Hopefully Olympus will jump on the bandwagon soon so I can use my beautiful ZD lenses to make movies as well as stills. -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION LONDON UK WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- > From jeff.olm at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 07:51:32 2008 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:51:32 -0700 Subject: [Tig] semi OT: flesh tone softening in PS In-Reply-To: <43C4BDF3-98CE-45EB-BE2D-45097F45BE56@colorist.org> References: <43C4BDF3-98CE-45EB-BE2D-45097F45BE56@colorist.org> Message-ID: <43298eae0809172351m4441b57eleeb732d718b4404c@mail.gmail.com> Rob, I'm posting this to both groups because of the blast from the past from tig.org archives Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:14:56 +0100 Ha, while here's a gem found while goggling Tiffen and why I posted to it CML post and 3D too http://www.colorist.org/pipermail/oldtig-mhonarc/1996/msg01416.html * To: * Subject: Re: Tiffen Software * From: "Geoff Boyle" * Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:14:56 +0100 Mike, Well I was joking about filters belonging on the camera :-) I was thinking of Spirit with SGI for interactive grading. I do like the idea of the Tiffen software filters, and can see that they would easily duplicate the colour filters, but have a great deal of difficulty accepting that they can duplicate a Soft F/X or other diff. They work so differently depending on the lighting conditions and the lens/stop that you use. I've just done my first Cineon job for projection, I want that resolution and the ability to sit with my favourite colourist working in real time. Cheers Geoff wow that's a classic wish on star. So here is how that played out 22 years later. Still no Tiffen OFX for the DI systems. Regarding filters http://www.tiffen.com/dfx_v2_home.html Peter Moyer formerly of the Post Group and his company Digital Filmworks now hails from http://www.digitalfilmtools.com/photshopprods.htm He got out of the facility business and writes software now. The Tiffen package is a great way to talk with DP's and give them a real diffusion tool they can relate to. But any software defocus or diffusion will never be fast until they are tuned for a NVidia GPU shader. http://www.digitalfilmtools.com/ They don't make OFX or plug ins for Discreet. I think It shows you can make a go of it on the desktop as a software company. And not have to be super high priced high end. But hopefully they will make it OFX some day.. They have some great keyer plug-ins that should do the trick for your face fix ups. Hope that helps. And their other product is very cool and a must for anybody doing stereo or roto for stereo. http://www.silhouettefx.com/silhouette/ No $ affiliation just a observation. But hell of a product line. All the best to those that traveled back from IBC looking forward to the stories. best, Jeff Olm Stereo Colorist and Stereo FX LA, CA Rob's original post > I've done a fair amount of googling regarding the following conditions: > 1) model, with complexion anomalies that need softening. > 2) highlights of eyes, etc. must not be affected by any blur effect. > > I've found plugins for Photoshop but they don't fill the bill, there must > be a way within PS itself to create a mask based on the fleshtone and then > use it as input for the blur effect? From jeff.olm at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 08:21:50 2008 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:21:50 -0700 Subject: [Tig] semi OT: flesh tone softening in PS In-Reply-To: <43298eae0809172351m4441b57eleeb732d718b4404c@mail.gmail.com> References: <43C4BDF3-98CE-45EB-BE2D-45097F45BE56@colorist.org> <43298eae0809172351m4441b57eleeb732d718b4404c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43298eae0809180021v193a96bco85f16e24bdd7f133@mail.gmail.com> It was 12 years And I will have to credit Marty Ollstein. For his work to make it the Tiffen filters happen on any platform Not sure you can buy this now Flame plug-in now . But I had this in hand in the day. At Dream Quest RIP. But the more tools the digital guys have that =the exact camera tools the less debate production or post will have regarding diffusion. Just my opinion Always easier to blur later because post sharpening is limited. Be great to see Tiffen diffusion In all DI systems Here is from 1999 post http://www.bpmasterclass.hu/bcm_1999/dop_sponsors.htm TIFFEN • Developer of the Tiffen Crystal Image Software A feature cinematographer and director, Marty Ollstein is currently dedicated to bridging the gap between cinematography and digital technology. Working extensively with Tiffen camera filters as a Director of Photography, Ollstein saw the need for a precise digital equivalent of the filter effects, and developed for Tiffen the Crystal Image software. Designed to make the entire Tiffen optical filter library available in the digital domain, Crystal Image is currently available as a plug-in to Discreet's Flame and Inferno, and Kodak's Cineon. Tiffen plans to port Crystal Image to additional platforms and make the technology available to the entire motion picture, broadcast, and print communities. The software bridges the creative communication gap between cinematography and digital image processing by providing a benchmark for filtration, and facilitating the filmmaker�s continuous involvement throughout all aspects of production. Some of his Ollstein's directing credits include Bobby (Cannes Official Selection, ASC Award) and Dangerous Love (starring Elliott Gould). His cinematography credits range from Haircut (John Cassavetes) and Olivia Newton-John�s Dolphin Song, to Penitentiary 1 and 3. A graduate of Stanford University and UCLA Graduate Film School, he received awards from the American Society of Cinematographers and the Director's Guild of America. He has taught cinematography at UCLA and the San Francisco Academy of Art, and is currently developing a course for UCLA on Lighting and Filtration - from the physical to the digital realm. TIFFEN has been manufacturing high quality optical filters for over 60 years, and has become the world's leading supplier of camera filters and accessories. Tiffen has been recognized by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences with two Academy Awards for Nat and Ira Tiffen, and the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences with an 'Emmy' for the Tiffen Company. Tiffen's development of the Crystal Image software is representative of the company's commitment to the integration of digital technology into the company's mission. www.tiffen.com From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Sep 18 15:48:04 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:48:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 In-Reply-To: <832FB5D6-5957-4603-915B-97BF8DEACFD6@autotv.co.uk> References: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> <4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket> <001501c91936$01c62120$8f1ea8c0@flight4> <832FB5D6-5957-4603-915B-97BF8DEACFD6@autotv.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Adrian Thomas wrote: > > 30fps only. 12 minute per shot limit in 1920x1080, 40Mbps H.264 compression. > MUCH bigger sensor than a Red cam, and all those lovely fast, IS, EF lenses > to choose from, but pretty heavy video compression. What sort of battery and data storage packs are required. How long does the battery last under this level of abuse? Are the data storage packs easily field replaceable? Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From ken at flight4.org Thu Sep 18 18:53:09 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 01:53:09 +0800 Subject: [Tig] New canon 5D Mk2 In-Reply-To: References: <005001c918ec$aa6c42e0$8f1ea8c0@flight4><4797948476BE4F8785CD5D010F213C47@Sprocket><001501c91936$01c62120$8f1ea8c0@flight4><832FB5D6-5957-4603-915B-97BF8DEACFD6@autotv.co.uk> Message-ID: <002901c919b7$6af2dae0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> >What sort of battery and data storage packs are required. How long >does the battery last under this level of abuse? Are the data storage >packs easily field replaceable? Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn This camera is still six weeks from release... so many of the practical questions are impossible to answer. The blurb did say max recording data in one hit was 4gb.... I assume that's the 12 mins.... As a production tool, I doubt it, but as an indication of convergence, absolutely. Battery replacement? Open slot take out battery insert the new one, and the same for the compact flash... or tether to a laptop! Now.... can I use 3.5g and skype? Oops I mean 4g of course! Blacberry Canon iCamera strawberry??? (Sprockets are extra Graham, sorry... If Mick (Colourist Dr. Who) could get hold of a Tardis, we could look at the nth dimension). Yes, yes... bed time now.... Ken Ken Robinson From kabanbenedek at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 22:34:22 2008 From: kabanbenedek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Benedek_Kab=E1n?=) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:34:22 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Visual fx on documents for documentaries Message-ID: Hi All, I saw a documentary on the Monte Carlo TV Festival titled as 'Shattering Silence' by Eric Friedler from North German TV. We saw very high quality technics to present written evidences such as passports and old documents. They used wild motion to zoom in and pan on the text without jittering effect. I don't know whether this is a special software or somebody just composited in 3D? We would like to use similar technic in a doumentary. Could anybody help in this? Thanks, Benedek Benedek Kabán digital film colorist mail at kabanbenedek.com www.kabanbenedek.com From rob at colorist.org Sat Sep 20 01:46:59 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:46:59 -0300 Subject: [Tig] New T shirts, new wiki function, etc. Message-ID: Am working on the new T-Shirt design with an embroiderer here in Brasil, and have hopes that we can make it an economical and fashionable option for the holidays. Excuse the huckstering. There's a new wiki function written into the code today that will show active, visiting IPs and logged-in users, with the flag of the IP's registered country, on the top of every page.* Another reminder that colorists can stream their reels at http://reels.colorist.org and also embed flash video into their wiki pages if desired. To stream at reels.colorist.org I just need an .flv version of the reel, though I can create one here if another format is all that's available. The results of the TIG Poll are fairly stable and representative, with most respondents not desiring change, except in the last question (which has nothing to do with the TIG). http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Poll_TIG_future *anyone want national anthems on mouseover of the flags? or, a better idea: combine all national anthems into one, playing as 200+ channels of matrixed audio, .... Rob TIG admin.founder -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From roblingelbach at gmail.com Sun Sep 21 17:46:40 2008 From: roblingelbach at gmail.com (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:46:40 -0300 Subject: [Tig] wiki users display suspended; webalizerlogs added Message-ID: Bob Friesenhahn pointed out that the TIG wiki users display replete with country flag was running amok, so until I work out the .css handles it's suspended. To make up for it I added open webalizer statistics for colorist.org, tig.colorist.org, and reels.colorist.org available in the wiki navbar under Webalizer stats. Note that the stats for reels.colorist.org only start from today so are very low; also the first 2 weeks of September are not represented in *.colorist.org stats because of the server move. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 22 16:01:35 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:01:35 -0300 Subject: [Tig] IBC debriefing anyone? Message-ID: <1806CCCF-ECA9-46EA-A43C-1F64F2201119@colorist.org> Would anyone who attended IBC care to post some notes to the TIG about what was new, good, bad, interesting ? we haven't really had any discussion about the show here. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From screenwarmer at cox.net Mon Sep 22 16:36:43 2008 From: screenwarmer at cox.net (Rich Montez) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:36:43 -0400 Subject: [Tig] IBC debriefing anyone? In-Reply-To: <1806CCCF-ECA9-46EA-A43C-1F64F2201119@colorist.org> Message-ID: <20080922113643.JVN10.419204.imail@fed1rmwml41> Hi Rob, I didn't get to see much as I was working but one thing I know we are all interested in is monitors. Barco has a new 23 inch HD grading monitor that looked really good. I'm not too sure about the specs but I was able to look at some of our stuff that I was familiar with then load some test frames and I liked it. It was 10 bit and the viewing angles weren't bad. I suggest to all interested they try it out. Usual disclaimer, I don't work for Barco and they haven't bought me beer, yet ;) Rich Montez ---- Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Yuri Reznichenko supports the TIG > Reel Streaming at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Would anyone who attended IBC care to post some notes to the TIG about > what was new, good, bad, interesting ? we haven't really had any > discussion > about the show here. > > Rob > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 22 18:03:25 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:03:25 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Saab enthusiasts to help preserve vintage ad? Message-ID: <5466B51D-B39D-4DA8-90E0-F75AC7213153@colorist.org> I'm wondering if there are any Saab enthusiasts (besides me) on the TIG who might be able to help someone whose hobby is Saabs to get some 1970s Saab footage- i think about 30 seconds to 1 minute- onto DVD. As it's a hobby, the budget is minimal. I'm currently on vacation so can't help at the moment. The web reference regarding the project is http://tinyurl.com/4ej8oc there's a little confusion on the blog regarding "8mm" vs. 16, but it's obvious from the photo of the tiny reel that it's 16, (i think :] ). I responded on the blog asking where the person is located, and it would also probably be interesting to know the quoted price he/ she already has and from what facility. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at cinelab.com Mon Sep 22 18:36:13 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:36:13 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Saab enthusiasts to help preserve vintage ad? In-Reply-To: <5466B51D-B39D-4DA8-90E0-F75AC7213153@colorist.org> References: <5466B51D-B39D-4DA8-90E0-F75AC7213153@colorist.org> Message-ID: > there's a little confusion on the blog regarding "8mm" vs. 16, but > it's obvious from the photo of > the tiny reel that it's 16, (i think :] ). I responded on the blog > asking where the person is located, > I posted a answer on his blog offering to transfer that scrap of 16 for him gratis, after all my first car was a 99 followed by an alfa and I have a XJ-6 now so clearly I am a glutton for punishment. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 22 18:47:37 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:47:37 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Saab enthusiasts to help preserve vintage ad? In-Reply-To: References: <5466B51D-B39D-4DA8-90E0-F75AC7213153@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Sep 22, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Robert Houllahan wrote: > > I posted a answer on his blog offering to transfer that scrap of 16 > for him gratis, after all my first car was a 99 followed by an alfa > and I have a XJ-6 now so clearly I am a glutton for punishment. the Alfa GTV coupe of the 70s was one of the most beautiful cars ever designed. and regarding certain quirks of reliability and such, I know what you're talking about. I had a Saab 900, a 900 Turbo, then a 900 Turbo SPG, and they were great cars. but then I discovered the 5-series BMW. Haven't owned a car in 6 years now however- and it certainly saves money not having one. sorry for the OT digression..... will have to add photos of my cars to the TIG wiki photos section, which has Swinny's, Topazio, and Corbitt's. Lawfirm: Swinson, Topazio, and Corbitt. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Mon Sep 22 22:29:56 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:29:56 -0300 Subject: [Tig] IBC debriefing anyone? In-Reply-To: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: Hi James, I'm going to post this... thanks a lot for the feedback. On Sep 22, 2008, at 4:03 PM, James Willett wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Monitors seemed very much on people's list @ IBC. No surprise there! > > As mentioned here on The TIG Barco had their 10bit panel on demo. It > was good to finally see it in the flesh. Looked promising certainly > - what was interesting though was when u got a glimse of one sitting > alongside a Cine-tal on a certain grading system manufacturers > stand. I don't suggest for one minute the shows conditions were a > place to be judging monitors, but lets just say a line up of the > Barco, Cine-tal and maybe the Sony in a contolled environment would > make for an interesting evening....... > > Also, if you looked round the show there were countless Cine-tals on > exhibitors stands.....coincidence? I lost count at 39....anyone > count more?! > > Someone told me Sony had some of their OLED technology there - > obviously early days with this - I didn't get to see it - did anyone > else? Comments? > > All the best, > > James > > Disclaimer : I do not work for or receive any benefits from the > companies mentioned above. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From pinkypolish at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 05:24:45 2008 From: pinkypolish at gmail.com (mitz ud) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:24:45 -0700 Subject: [Tig] who are the hottest colorist in London Message-ID: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> Hi friends, I found out that CO 3 is the most happening place for grading in the US, so who are the hottest colorist in UK (London) Mitz senior colorist Prime Focus,India From SKIADCOCK at aol.com Wed Sep 24 14:50:00 2008 From: SKIADCOCK at aol.com (SKIADCOCK at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:50:00 EDT Subject: [Tig] Monitors & Displays at IBC Message-ID: Saw this in a e-newsletter today. Just a brief write-up. _http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/2008/09/ibc_roundup_monitors_and_displays. html;jsessionid=A77D6F43F05E51EC1D36824C8D19B770?tmcsTrackingInfo=$Vw7nt8vRjIv 59NwlNQxiCkyyomBaPB-We_tiU7vgnvSUg8wmmieN30g5fY61eb1TzRwwJQobuBI$_ (http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/2008/09/ibc_roundup_monitors_and_displays.html;jsessi onid=A77D6F43F05E51EC1D36824C8D19B770?tmcsTrackingInfo=$Vw7nt8vRjIv59NwlNQxiCk yyomBaPB-We_tiU7vgnvSUg8wmmieN30g5fY61eb1TzRwwJQobuBI$) Cheers. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) From ken at flight4.org Wed Sep 24 14:42:37 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:42:37 +0800 Subject: [Tig] who are the hottest colorist in London In-Reply-To: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005d01c91e4b$69a102f0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Mitz... It depends how much chile they stuck in their Mumbai Vindaloo. At least you are used to hot things, cos I think youre going to get flamed a bit.... Sorry... Prime who?????????? ken robinson Hong Kong GSM . .I found out that CO 3 is the most happening place for grading in the US, so .who are the hottest colorist in UK (London) .Mitz .senior colorist .Prime Focus,India From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 24 16:58:10 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:58:10 -0300 Subject: [Tig] who are the hottest colorist in London In-Reply-To: <005d01c91e4b$69a102f0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> <005d01c91e4b$69a102f0$8f1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: <167E9130-C014-420C-A2A0-AA5C728D118A@colorist.org> On Sep 24, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Ken Robinson wrote: > > Mitz... It depends how much chile they stuck in their Mumbai Vindaloo. > > At least you are used to hot things, cos I think youre going to get > flamed a > bit.... Should there be any reservations, this topic is fair game for any and all responses from all quarters. (geez there are tons of possible puns in there but I'll refrain from indulging my paronomasia) Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From paul at cinelicious.tv Wed Sep 24 18:01:31 2008 From: paul at cinelicious.tv (Paul Korver) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:01:31 -0700 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: I was definitely on the hunt for good monitoring solutions (23" colorist grading stations & 40-60" client viewing monitors & 4K DI projectors). Tried to see everything from Sony, Barco, Cine-Tal, and Astro including the tiny FED 20" prototype at the Astro booth. FED/ FET looks promising... felt to me like I was looking at a high-end tube monitor in terms of contrast ratio, viewing angle, brightness and how it dealt with fast motion. Too bad the promo footage they were using was really (I mean really) bad consumer video footage of plastic fruit still life's, stiff dancers on drab background that looked to be choreographed by the FET engineering team for the "fast motion" demo... all with really poor color correction so you had to really use some creativity to imagine how good it could look beautiful film images. Astro may be on to something technologically but they need some help in the branding / packaging / creative dept before I would consider bringing one of their monitors into a high- end post environment. Sony was a bit disappointing for me. They weren't showing their SXRD 4K projector at the show. The 4 tradeshow staff I interacted with were generally unknowledgeable and linguistically challenged (I don't speak Japanese). They were showing their 56" 3.8K LCD monitor (3840x2169). 3.8K... pure marketing genius. I've seen better viewing angles on an LG monitor from Best Buy. On Monday when I went by to show my colleague they had turned it off... when I asked the staff in charge of that section if they could turn it on so my colleague could see it the deadpan response was "is no woking anymores". The only picture worth looking at was their top of the line 23' HD LCD (BVML230 I think) which to me was just okay. In my opinion the new Barco faired slightly better than the Sony in terms of picture quality... They're doing this CRT emulation mode that basically introduces flicker to the natively flicker-free LCD image which I personally found distracting. No big deal because you can turn it off. They had a large 4K LCD that looked great but it was stuck showing like 150 tiny image feeds. Would have loved to have seen it with 1 stream of 4K. Also saw a very good looking 4K (approx 60") LCD at the DVS booth.... I forgot to write down who made it. I actually liked the Cine-tal picture the best of all for a dual-link grading monitor... at 23" it still isn't big enough (in my mind) for the type of viewing environment I want to set up for our clients to look at but to me it beat out Sony and Barco as a colorist's grading monitor. Part of that might be due to the fact that Cine-tal covers their LCD surface with glass (which I believe has a slight ND filter) which helps with contrast, perceived viewing angle, as well as protects the screen & makes for easy cleaning. I agree with James below that a Sony Barco Cine-tal shootout would be very interesting. It's really difficult to get an accurate representation with all of the variables introduced by a tradeshow. I think they did a Sony Cine-tal one at NAB which I missed. Both Sony and Barco top end monitors are dual-link and I was quoted around $30-$35K fully loaded. It seems to me cost of production of LCD monitors must be quite a bit less than CRT... but we're still being charged the same rate because that's what a Sony Grading/ Mastering monitor has always cost? If the image quality was anywhere near that of CRT then I would consider paying it. But since it's not I think it's a load of crap that they're asking those prices. Compare this with a top end Cine-tal which I think is around half that and the choice to me seems clear. Any Cine-tal users out there with real-world experience do share or email me directly. If it wasn't obvious I don't work for any of these companies. -Paul Paul Korver Principal Cinelicious paul at cinelicious.tv On Sep 22, 2008, at 2:29 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Yuri Reznichenko supports the TIG > Reel Streaming at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Hi James, I'm going to post this... thanks a lot for the feedback. > > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 4:03 PM, James Willett wrote: > >> Hi Rob, >> >> Monitors seemed very much on people's list @ IBC. No surprise there! >> >> As mentioned here on The TIG Barco had their 10bit panel on demo. >> It was good to finally see it in the flesh. Looked promising >> certainly - what was interesting though was when u got a glimse of >> one sitting alongside a Cine-tal on a certain grading system >> manufacturers stand. I don't suggest for one minute the shows >> conditions were a place to be judging monitors, but lets just say >> a line up of the Barco, Cine-tal and maybe the Sony in a contolled >> environment would make for an interesting evening....... >> >> Also, if you looked round the show there were countless Cine-tals >> on exhibitors stands.....coincidence? I lost count at 39....anyone >> count more?! >> >> Someone told me Sony had some of their OLED technology there - >> obviously early days with this - I didn't get to see it - did >> anyone else? Comments? >> >> All the best, >> >> James >> >> Disclaimer : I do not work for or receive any benefits from the >> companies mentioned above. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Sep 24 18:03:32 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:03:32 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Kodak Telecine Toolkit--seeking recent kit Message-ID: Went to buy a new Kodak Telecine Toolkit this morning, and learned from George Gush just now that the Kodak Telecine Toolkit is off the market, and the the order desk could find non in stock at various Kodak locations :( Only individual TAFs are available. http://www.motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/PCN080108_Q.pdf Does anyone have a recent KTT in good condition with all components that's surplus to their needs? I'm particularly interested in the kits with Ektachrome as a number of my archive clients will have Ektachrome on their shelves and this would allow a good lineup for that stock. Thanks, Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Wed Sep 24 19:11:53 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:11:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Korver wrote: > > Both Sony and Barco top end monitors are dual-link and I was quoted around > $30-$35K fully loaded. It seems to me cost of production of LCD monitors > must be quite a bit less than CRT... but we're still being charged the same > rate because that's what a Sony Grading/Mastering monitor has always cost? Price depends on how much the product costs to build as well as what the market is prepared to pay. Consider that a 4K 60" LCD has 4X the total pixels as a 1920x1080 65" LCD (selling for less than $8K), which represents the top of the current consumer market. Based on total pixels the price seems reasonable without even considering provisions for the professional market. Studio CRTs will not even come close to 4K resolution and perhaps can not fully resolve 2K. If you are working with 2K content, then you likely want to use a 2K display since then other parameters may be better optimized. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From paul at cinelicious.tv Wed Sep 24 19:19:15 2008 From: paul at cinelicious.tv (Paul Korver) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:19:15 -0700 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> Hi Bob, Those prices were for flagship 23" dual-link HD Grading monitors... not 4K. -Paul On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Korver wrote: >> >> Both Sony and Barco top end monitors are dual-link and I was >> quoted around $30-$35K fully loaded. It seems to me cost of >> production of LCD monitors must be quite a bit less than CRT... >> but we're still being charged the same rate because that's what a >> Sony Grading/Mastering monitor has always cost? > > Price depends on how much the product costs to build as well as > what the market is prepared to pay. > > Consider that a 4K 60" LCD has 4X the total pixels as a 1920x1080 > 65" LCD (selling for less than $8K), which represents the top of > the current consumer market. Based on total pixels the price seems > reasonable without even considering provisions for the professional > market. Studio CRTs will not even come close to 4K resolution and > perhaps can not fully resolve 2K. > > If you are working with 2K content, then you likely want to use a > 2K display since then other parameters may be better optimized. > > Bob > ====================================== > Bob Friesenhahn > bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/ > bfriesen/ > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ > From pmendelson at ascentmedia.com Wed Sep 24 19:33:23 2008 From: pmendelson at ascentmedia.com (Philip Mendelson) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:33:23 -0700 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: <33105FBCE1EBF541B886D52AD93B372201712380@broadway520ex.corp.ad> And........they aren't even 2K They are 1920x1080 native -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Paul Korver Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:19 AM To: Bob Friesenhahn Cc: tig at tig.colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Boyd Lim supports the TIG Reel Streaming at http://reels.colorist.org ==== Hi Bob, Those prices were for flagship 23" dual-link HD Grading monitors... not 4K. -Paul On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Korver wrote: >> >> Both Sony and Barco top end monitors are dual-link and I was quoted >> around $30-$35K fully loaded. It seems to me cost of production of >> LCD monitors must be quite a bit less than CRT... >> but we're still being charged the same rate because that's what a >> Sony Grading/Mastering monitor has always cost? > > Price depends on how much the product costs to build as well as what > the market is prepared to pay. > > Consider that a 4K 60" LCD has 4X the total pixels as a 1920x1080 65" > LCD (selling for less than $8K), which represents the top of the > current consumer market. Based on total pixels the price seems > reasonable without even considering provisions for the professional > market. Studio CRTs will not even come close to 4K resolution and > perhaps can not fully resolve 2K. > > If you are working with 2K content, then you likely want to use a 2K > display since then other parameters may be better optimized. > > Bob > ====================================== > Bob Friesenhahn > bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/ > bfriesen/ > GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ > _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From ted at tedlangdell.com Wed Sep 24 19:37:23 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:37:23 -0700 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <09647762-BEDD-4046-8FDC-8289298D61E6@tedlangdell.com> On Sep 24, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > > On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Korver wrote: >> >> Both Sony and Barco top end monitors are dual-link and I was >> quoted around $30-$35K fully loaded. It seems to me cost of >> production of LCD monitors must be quite a bit less than CRT... >> but we're still being charged the same rate because that's what a >> Sony Grading/Mastering monitor has always cost? > > Price depends on how much the product costs to build as well as > what the market is prepared to pay. Also to be considered are the tolerances applied to high end gear, compared to consumer level gear. Camera chips are an example. Making chips that will pass the broadcast/Digital Cinema test may lead to significant "waste" since there are going to be ones that won't meet spec for one reason or another. That means that the cost per usable chip tends to reflect the cost of usable and unusable chips, particularly if the chips that won't meet broadcast spec can't be repurposed downmarket in consumer gear. Kinda like buying lumber. You buy longer boards in order to get the size you need... but have waste after cutting to length. Ted. From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Wed Sep 24 19:51:10 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:51:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Paul Korver wrote: > Hi Bob, > Those prices were for flagship 23" dual-link HD Grading monitors... not 4K. You were confusing since the LCDs you talked about were all big-screen sized. If the grading-quality LCDs are over-priced, then by all means purchase a CRT instead. ;-) Maybe there is a factory in Romania which still makes a CRT. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at cinelab.com Wed Sep 24 19:53:54 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:53:54 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Final Cut and Flex Files In-Reply-To: <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: Hi Anybody have any thoughts on Final Cut and it's Cinema Tools app, I have a 35mm indie feature client here which I made a set of DvCam tapes and a flex file from my keylink and I am letting the director use one of our DSR-11 decks to ingest the footage, final cut seems not to like/be able to get around the timecode breaks on the dvcam tapes. I incremented the flats by 1hr with up to 6 flats ona 64 min DvCam tape... am I missing something? Final cut is a wonderful ditor, no really it is just ask anyone who has never used it... plus we are going to answer print this film so I cannot just send the problems forward on the food chain.... Rob "warmest color dude in Fall River, Massachusetts, USA" Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Sep 24 19:57:37 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:57:37 -0700 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: >Studio CRTs will not even come close to 4K resolution and >perhaps can not fully resolve 2K. In fact, except for the 32" flagship Sony CRT, they can't even resolve 1K. I believe a fresh 32" can resolve about 1100-1200 horizontal pixels, but that's it. And it has to be a fresh CRT. And it has to have contrast set up around 14 fl, which is WAY below where most post houses run them. Once the beam has splattered all over the phosphor for a while because the contrast has been turned up and the set operated for thousands of hours, you'll be lucky to see 1000 pixels resolved. Despite all the drawbacks (and there are a ton), that's the one HUGE advantage the new displays have: they show you every pixel, for good or bad. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From aranysh at mac.com Wed Sep 24 21:03:07 2008 From: aranysh at mac.com (Michael Aranyshev) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:03:07 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Final Cut and Flex Files In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> Message-ID: <92016475121929853775476415263898774069-Webmail2@me.com> >am I missing something? An editor. From rob at cinelab.com Wed Sep 24 21:27:25 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:27:25 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Final Cut and Flex Files In-Reply-To: <92016475121929853775476415263898774069-Webmail2@me.com> References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> <92016475121929853775476415263898774069-Webmail2@me.com> Message-ID: <53989F82-AC2D-4201-96C7-F22606286F33@cinelab.com> >> am I missing something? > > An editor. Amen... Unfortunately every person who has a mac and a copy of fcp now thinks they are one, this one in particular is basically looking at me as a know it all... and i don't even particularly like fcp... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rob at colorist.org Wed Sep 24 21:28:41 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:28:41 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Final Cut and Flex Files In-Reply-To: <92016475121929853775476415263898774069-Webmail2@me.com> References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> <167B7628-0BA2-4D3B-8B5E-30CB36CBDFB4@cinelicious.tv> <92016475121929853775476415263898774069-Webmail2@me.com> Message-ID: On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Michael Aranyshev wrote: >> am I missing something? > > An editor. an editor who grades, or a colorist who edits, would be called a: 1) graditor 2) edigrader 3) coloreditor 4) edicolorist 5) colortor 6) digitalorist 7) digitorculturalist 6) Directing Lead Digital Grading Editing Digital Supervisor 7) scab 8) freelancer 9) Fabio -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From gkamerling at avi-drome.nl Wed Sep 24 22:32:26 2008 From: gkamerling at avi-drome.nl (Gerlof Kamerling) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:32:26 +0200 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: <09647762-BEDD-4046-8FDC-8289298D61E6@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: Hi all, But what is the LCD Monitor most preffered and bought for our grading rooms. I still don't know what is considered to be the best one to buy? All we do here is grade for tv and not for cinema. Any suggestions are welcome... Thanks in advance for the input. Gerlof Kamerling Senior Colorist Avi-Drome Bothalaan 2 1217 JP, Hilversum Tel: +31(0)35 6727 686 Fax: +31(0)35 6727 696 Mob: +31(0)6 10493475 www.avi-drome.nl From percy at digitalmagic.com.hk Thu Sep 25 01:00:54 2008 From: percy at digitalmagic.com.hk (percy at digitalmagic.com.hk) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:00:54 +0800 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <045d01c91ea1$c7859c40$6501a8c0@MEDIACENTER> I wanted to buy 4K monitor that could help to built aRD workflow Any advise, need consultancy, too PM at Percy at filmmagic.com.hk Many thanks Percy Fung, Hong Kong Film Magic/ Digital Magic www.filmmagic.com.hk www.digitlamagic.com.hk > > Consider that a 4K 60" LCD has 4X the total pixels as a 1920x1080 65" > LCD (selling for less than $8K), which represents the top of the > current consumer market. Based on total pixels the price seems > reasonable without even considering provisions for the professional > market. Studio CRTs will not even come close to 4K resolution and > perhaps can not fully resolve 2K. > > If you are working with 2K content, then you likely want to use a 2K > display since then other parameters may be better optimized. > > Bob > ====================================== > Bob Friesenhahn From aranysh at mac.com Wed Sep 24 23:13:33 2008 From: aranysh at mac.com (Michael Aranyshev) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:13:33 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Final Cut and Flex Files Message-ID: <144031592978517404034118580379451344896-Webmail2@me.com> If timecode on the tape after the break is greater than before the break FCP shouldn't have much trouble finding it during batch capture. What can cause problems is the amount of pre-roll before the in point. The solution is to set pre-roll to 1 second in Device control settings. This is too little for editing to tape but enough for capture. From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 25 01:56:28 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:56:28 -0300 Subject: [Tig] featured spot on TIG Message-ID: Clark Mueller's work (New Hat, Santa Monica) on Burger King's "Ice Cream Man" is featured on the main TIG wiki page. --Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 25 02:00:01 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:00:01 -0300 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68EEEB52-C598-4314-8C7F-E77CF5D22182@colorist.org> On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Gerlof Kamerling wrote: > Hi all, > But what is the LCD Monitor most preffered and bought for our > grading rooms. > I still don't know what is considered to be the best one to buy? and the HP Dreamcolor? how does it compare to the Cine-Tal in quality and price? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 25 03:39:03 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:39:03 -0300 Subject: [Tig] colorists: submit spots or short pieces for TIG wiki Message-ID: <77776E31-3FD1-439B-93E1-DD950E1679D0@colorist.org> Needed: current material of short (under 2 minutes) duration for TIG wiki "Feature Presentation" section of Colorist work. (currently playing: Clark Mueller's Burger King "Ice Cream Man") All material considered, flash (.swf) movie preferred but can convert from Quicktime. please contact me for upload instructions. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From adrian at autotv.co.uk Thu Sep 25 11:40:22 2008 From: adrian at autotv.co.uk (Adrian Thomas) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:40:22 +0100 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: On 24 Sep 2008, at 18:01, Paul Korver wrote: > The 4 tradeshow staff I interacted with were generally > unknowledgeable and linguistically challenged (I don't speak > Japanese). Perhaps it's you that's linguistically challenged? -- Adrian Thomas AUTOMATIC TELEVISION LONDON UK WC2N 4DU www.autotv.co.uk +44 (0) 20 7240 2073 -- From gkamerling at avi-drome.nl Thu Sep 25 06:59:21 2008 From: gkamerling at avi-drome.nl (Gerlof Kamerling) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:59:21 +0200 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: <68EEEB52-C598-4314-8C7F-E77CF5D22182@colorist.org> Message-ID: >> Hi all, >> But what is the LCD Monitor most preffered and bought for our >> grading rooms. >> I still don't know what is considered to be the best one to buy? > > and the HP Dreamcolor? how does it compare to the Cine-Tal in > quality and > price? > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Hi Rob, I think that the hp doesn't have a hd/sd sdi input (only dvi) and according. to our ict department there are no really good dvi to sdi converters. You can't get the dreamcolor display here anyway untill next year. But would love to read some comments of users. Gerlof Kamerling From martin-p at moving-picture.com Thu Sep 25 12:56:48 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:56:48 +0100 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB54B6@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > Maybe there is a factory in Romania which still makes a CRT. I suppose you could try there. But why wouldn't you go to a mainstream company like JVC ?? ;-) http://www.jvcproeurope.com/uk/pub/prod/monitors/index_html "CRT Monitors: JVC will continue to develop and manufacture professional CRT monitors. JVC prides itself on the quality of image and the product reliability which have won it a large user base, in HD as in SD." Disclaimer: I don't work for JVC - nor live in Romania ..... Martin Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London www.moving-picture.com From lists at neonmargarita.com Thu Sep 25 13:45:55 2008 From: lists at neonmargarita.com (Jeff Heusser) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:45:55 -0700 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: <3C727A01-00AE-4A5D-BDCB-5E350CF11C58@neonmargarita.com> References: <3C727A01-00AE-4A5D-BDCB-5E350CF11C58@neonmargarita.com> Message-ID: Has there been any discussion about the new Barco? http://www.barco.com/corporate/en/products/product.asp?gennr=1990 We shot a piece at IBC on it which will be in an upcoming fxguidetv. The feature set looked great, anxious to hear reports as people start to test it in facilities. Jeff --- Jeff Heusser neonmargarita.com jeff at neonmargarita.com fxguide.com fxphd.com From telecynic at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 15:20:27 2008 From: telecynic at gmail.com (Rob Lang) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:50:27 +0530 Subject: [Tig] who are the hottest colorist in London In-Reply-To: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <387884590809250720j21064e7cw7ceb1e9fd0ad6a7a@mail.gmail.com> Hey Mitz, The last I heard, the buzz in London came from a company called Pixion who joined up with Men From Mars last autumn... They're doing some rocking work, really turning heads with their quality apparently. I guess if you google them, you'll read more.... On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:54 AM, mitz ud wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Yuri Reznichenko supports the TIG > Reel Streaming at http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Hi friends, > > > I found out that CO 3 is the most happening place for grading in the US, so > who are the hottest colorist in UK (London) > > > Mitz > senior colorist > Prime Focus,India > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > -- Robert Lang Colourist http://telecynic.tripod.com From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 25 15:53:21 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:53:21 -0300 Subject: [Tig] wiki featured spot (alternating) Message-ID: the TIG wiki main page will alternate colorists' work. Today we have Bob Festa's work out of New Hat for Alfa Romeo. http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From mfw at musictrax.com Thu Sep 25 16:48:17 2008 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:48:17 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Final Cut and Flex Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/24/08 11:53 AM, "Robert Houllahan" wrote: > Anybody have any thoughts on Final Cut and it's Cinema Tools app, I > have a 35mm indie feature client here which I made a set of DvCam > tapes and a flex file from my keylink and I am letting the director > use one of our DSR-11 decks to ingest the footage, final cut seems not > to like/be able to get around the timecode breaks on the dvcam tapes. > I incremented the flats by 1hr with up to 6 flats ona 64 min DvCam > tape... am I missing something? >------------------------------------------------------------< I seem to recall there are some tricks with Cinema Tools in order to get all the footage to capture correctly in FCP (preserving the ALE/FLX metadata for a negative pull list). It's covered in the latest manuals, but a some of it is not exactly intuitive. Talk to the guys on the LA Final Cut Pro forum, or do a message search and you'll find past discussions that cover this in detail: http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/ --Marc Wielage/Senior Colorist Technicolor Creative Services Hollywood, USA NOTE: The comments above are strictly mine, and may not necessarily represent those of my employers. From Eugene at FilmTransfer.com Thu Sep 25 17:06:09 2008 From: Eugene at FilmTransfer.com (Eugene Gekhter) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:06:09 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Custom Telecine Equipment Message-ID: <009e01c91f28$9fc96a60$df5c3f20$@com> Are there any individuals or organizations that have the capability to take existing projector chassis and convert to telecine, or build from scratch? In particular we are in need of super 8 sound capability. Thanks, Eugene Gekhter President Digital Transfer Systems 3175 Commercial Ave. Suite 102 Northbrook, IL 60062 phone: (866) 733-5383 cell #: (847) 363-8945 fax #: (847) 272-8207 email: eugene at filmtransfer.com website: www.filmtransfer.com From paul at cinelicious.tv Thu Sep 25 16:52:36 2008 From: paul at cinelicious.tv (Paul Korver) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:52:36 -0700 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: References: <6B9F481B-D4AB-426D-8254-5045C786ACB2@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <4F1F8FB8-AC56-4774-A3E9-D76BB0F594C8@cinelicious.tv> > On 24 Sep 2008, at 18:01, Paul Korver wrote: > >> The 4 tradeshow staff I interacted with were generally >> unknowledgeable and linguistically challenged (I don't speak >> Japanese). > On Sep 25, 2008, at 3:40 AM, Adrian Thomas wrote: > Perhaps it's you that's linguistically challenged? No arguments there Adrian :) When IBC moves to Osaka I'll brush up on my Japanese. From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 25 17:12:15 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:12:15 -0300 Subject: [Tig] reeldrop Message-ID: <43874603-CF42-48CF-BA7D-733A7D835613@colorist.org> For any colorist using a Mac, it's simply a drag and drop operation to send me your reel or other material (short piece for inclusion on the wiki). please contact me for details. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Thu Sep 25 21:56:21 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:56:21 -0300 Subject: [Tig] content rotation Message-ID: I reworked the main TIG wiki page to rotate the video content, currently set to 12 hours and there are 2 sources rotating: Clark Mueller's previously mentioned work and Bob Festa's. More sources welcome, just contact me and we'll get your content in the rotation. I'm working tonight on a server-side flash player that will give a little more control over the playback functions; in the current client-side flash configuration, from some points on the net these videos will play with annoying buffering action.. from other points or wider connections that won't happen. In any case, V.2 of the main wiki page content rotation will be along shortly, providing playback controls (pause, timeline). -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From craig at optimus.com Thu Sep 25 23:42:48 2008 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:42:48 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit In-Reply-To: <387884590809250720j21064e7cw7ceb1e9fd0ad6a7a@mail.gmail.com> References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> <387884590809250720j21064e7cw7ceb1e9fd0ad6a7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48DC13E8.2050605@optimus.com> Hello folks - So I hate to interrupt the fine discussions on Monitors and Final Cut, but does anyone have an opinion on the announcement of sale of our little Telecine ( you know, Telecine, as in Telecine Internet Group ) division at Thompson just before IBC? I would think people needing support for Spirit 1's ( Like us here at Optimus ) might be especially interested in this turn of events... What do you think this means? Inquiring minds need to know.... So... color me interested. Craig Leffel Professional Blow Hard Optimus Chicago From rob at lingelbach.us Fri Sep 26 02:30:23 2008 From: rob at lingelbach.us (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:30:23 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit In-Reply-To: <48DC13E8.2050605@optimus.com> References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> <387884590809250720j21064e7cw7ceb1e9fd0ad6a7a@mail.gmail.com> <48DC13E8.2050605@optimus.com> Message-ID: On Sep 25, 2008, at 7:42 PM, Craig wrote: > So I hate to interrupt the fine discussions on Monitors and Final > Cut, but does anyone have an opinion on the announcement of sale of > our little Telecine ( you know, Telecine, as in Telecine Internet > Group ) division at Thompson just before IBC? Hi Craig, take a look at Ted Langdell's posting on Sept. 10 to the TIG: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2008-September/014302.html regards Rob From craig at optimus.com Fri Sep 26 02:57:45 2008 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:57:45 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit In-Reply-To: References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> <387884590809250720j21064e7cw7ceb1e9fd0ad6a7a@mail.gmail.com> <48DC13E8.2050605@optimus.com> Message-ID: <48DC4199.3090002@optimus.com> Uh...... Thanks Rob. I read that article and a few more the day they came out when I was in Amsterdam for IBC. I also read Ted's post. I was soliciting opinions on the subject, which is different than reading, digesting, and accepting the the possible propaganda in that article. I must admit, I haven't heard much on the subject, other than the articles... so I says to myself, "Self, maybe the good people of the TIG - The Telecine Internet Group - will have opinions and insight on the matter"... And then I posted a question about opinions. Thanks - Craig Leffel Resident Pain in the Ass Rob Lingelbach wrote: > Hi Craig, take a look at Ted Langdell's posting on Sept. 10 to the TIG: > > http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2008-September/014302.html > > regards > Rob > From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 26 12:42:15 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:42:15 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit In-Reply-To: <48DC4199.3090002@optimus.com> References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> <387884590809250720j21064e7cw7ceb1e9fd0ad6a7a@mail.gmail.com> <48DC13E8.2050605@optimus.com> <48DC4199.3090002@optimus.com> Message-ID: <97F77B2E-2E11-4635-AE8D-B631031D8E95@colorist.org> > I was soliciting opinions on the subject, which is different than > reading, digesting, and accepting the the possible propaganda in > that article. oh, yes, that certainly is different. > I must admit, I haven't heard much on the subject, other than the > articles... so I says to myself, "Self, maybe the good people of the > TIG - The Telecine Internet Group - will have opinions and insight > on the matter"... a laudable process of thought. the more experienced of us might be a little jaded about this turn of events after you consider the colorful provenance of the company, which includes incarnations as Bosch Fernseh; BTS (Broadcast Television Services, alias Bosch Fernseh Philips); Philips Broadcast- Philips Digital Video Systems; Thomson Multimedia; Thomson. Grass Valley, a Thomson Brand; ownership relations with Technicolor Services; and now a new name TBA, unless it becomes PARTER. > And then I posted a question about opinions. and i hope for some responses, though it might be too soon to grasp fully the ramifications. regards Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From mfw at musictrax.com Fri Sep 26 15:58:08 2008 From: mfw at musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:58:08 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit In-Reply-To: <97F77B2E-2E11-4635-AE8D-B631031D8E95@colorist.org> Message-ID: On 9/26/08 4:42 AM, "Rob Lingelbach" wrote: > the more experienced of us might be a little jaded about this turn of > events after you consider the colorful provenance of the company, > which includes incarnations as Bosch Fernseh; BTS (Broadcast > Television Services, alias Bosch Fernseh Philips); Philips Broadcast- > Philips Digital Video Systems; Thomson Multimedia; Thomson. Grass > Valley, a Thomson Brand; ownership relations with Technicolor > Services; and now a new name TBA, unless it becomes PARTER. >------------------------------------------------------------< Don't forget Telemation and Bell & Howell! I like what Lou Levinson used to call Bosch in the 1980s: "Bosch-a-tele-bell-a-ferseh-mation, Inc." --Marc Wielage/Senior Colorist Technicolor Creative Services Hollywood, USA NOTE: The comments above are strictly mine, and may not necessarily represent those of my employers. From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Fri Sep 26 16:24:48 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:24:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit In-Reply-To: <97F77B2E-2E11-4635-AE8D-B631031D8E95@colorist.org> References: <9af53b850809232124l3068ea76hac13e053152c884@mail.gmail.com> <387884590809250720j21064e7cw7ceb1e9fd0ad6a7a@mail.gmail.com> <48DC13E8.2050605@optimus.com> <48DC4199.3090002@optimus.com> <97F77B2E-2E11-4635-AE8D-B631031D8E95@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > the more experienced of us might be a little jaded about this turn of events > after you consider the colorful provenance of the company, which includes > incarnations as Bosch Fernseh; BTS (Broadcast Television Services, alias > Bosch Fernseh Philips); Philips Broadcast-Philips Digital Video Systems; > Thomson Multimedia; Thomson. Grass Valley, a Thomson Brand; ownership > relations with Technicolor Services; and now a new name TBA, unless it > becomes PARTER. It would be nice to know *who* actually owns the company. Is it owned by a sovereign wealth fund, or by independent investors closer to home (whatever "home" means). Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Fri Sep 26 16:28:34 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:28:34 -0300 Subject: [Tig] list in deep maintenance 10-12 hours Message-ID: the TIG mailinglist will be in deep-normal maintenance for the next 10-12 hours, thanks for your understanding. The site wiki will not be affected, nor will the archives, only the propagation of messages, which will be held in a queue. e.g. "New York New York it's a helluva town. The site is up but the mailinglist down. The people ride in a hole in the ground. New York New York..... It's a helluva town!" Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Sep 26 17:05:20 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:05:20 -0700 Subject: [Tig] HPA Award Nominees announced Message-ID: <939645F3-E84F-45F6-81EC-7156CAB76E71@tedlangdell.com> Nominations have been announced by the Hollywood Post Alliance for the Third Annual HPA Awards. Winners of the prestigious HPA Award will be announced during a gala evening ceremony on November 6, 2008 at the Skirball Cultural Center in Los Angeles. Outstanding Color Grading Feature Film in a DI Process Iron Man Steven J. Scott (EFilm) Sweeney Todd Stefan Sonnenfeld (Company 3) Kite Runner Mike Sowa (LaserPacific Media Corporation) Outstanding Color Grading- Television Pushing Daisies “The Fun in Funerals” Joe Hathaway (LaserPacific Media Corporation) ESPN: The Masters Siggy Ferstl (RIOT) Andromeda Strain, Night 2: “Part 1” Mike Sowa (LaserPacific Media Corporation) Outstanding Color Grading- Commercial Travelers Insurance “Delivery” Sean Coleman (Company 3) Farmers Help Point “Drowned Circus” Stefan Sonnenfeld (Company 3) Jaguar “XF Hush” Alex Bickel (Outside Editorial) Read the rest of the story and nominees in editing and sound here. http://www.videography.com/articles/article_16103.shtml Ted Langdell tedlangdell.com and flashscan8.us From adelle at laserpacific.com Fri Sep 26 18:57:48 2008 From: adelle at laserpacific.com (Andy Delle) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:57:48 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit In-Reply-To: <48DC13E8.2050605@optimus.com> Message-ID: <001201c92001$630cf720$6a65a8c0@D2DZDY61> The will soon come and visit you, that is Thomson, Parter, and the new president who comes from Arri. They have been making rounds in Hollywood this week. Well financed, continued and better support, new product development, etc. Highly predictable PR response! Andy Delle Laser Pacific Media Corporation -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:43 PM To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Thompson et al Spirit 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Hello folks - So I hate to interrupt the fine discussions on Monitors and Final Cut, but does anyone have an opinion on the announcement of sale of our little Telecine ( you know, Telecine, as in Telecine Internet Group ) division at Thompson just before IBC? I would think people needing support for Spirit 1's ( Like us here at Optimus ) might be especially interested in this turn of events... What do you think this means? Inquiring minds need to know.... So... color me interested. Craig Leffel Professional Blow Hard Optimus Chicago _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.1/1686 - Release Date: 9/25/2008 7:05 AM From rob at colorist.org Sat Sep 27 16:36:34 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:36:34 -0300 Subject: [Tig] now in rotation Message-ID: <3D5BC509-E3F0-4A62-83B0-53A3BB05D826@colorist.org> now in rotation on the TIG wiki main page: Michael Thibodeau, Colorist: Hyundai :60 (along with Clark Muller for BK Ice Cream Man and Bob Festa for Alfa Romeo) if you're not on a fast connection, these spots will sometimes pause while loading. That's the price of higher quality. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From andreas at smalfilm.no Tue Sep 30 12:04:05 2008 From: andreas at smalfilm.no (=?US-ASCII?Q?Andreas_Wideroe?=) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:04:05 +0200 Subject: [Tig] SD SDI mixers Message-ID: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret> Hi, Can anyone recommend a simple mixer that has atleast two SD SDI inputs and one (or more) SD SDI output? The mixer has to be able to make a split 50/50 of two inputs to display on the screen and if possible a wipe (horizontal and vertical). We need this for comparing/matching scenes when colour correcting. Old/second hand models are perfect! Thanks! Andreas --- Norsk Smalfilm AS http://www.smalfilm.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 Fax: (+47) 38 02 33 84 From jeff.booth at ntlworld.com Tue Sep 30 15:24:59 2008 From: jeff.booth at ntlworld.com (Jeff Booth) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:24:59 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Thomson press release Message-ID: <20080930142459.OLHG18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Hi, I'm sure everyone has received this, but for those who didn't.... Jeff ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam From jeff.booth at ntlworld.com Tue Sep 30 16:07:18 2008 From: jeff.booth at ntlworld.com (Jeff Booth) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:07:18 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Thomson press release Message-ID: <20080930150718.VPRT19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Hi, Attachment was stripped off. I have sent the document to Rob so he can pass on. J ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam From rob at colorist.org Tue Sep 30 16:47:56 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:47:56 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Thomson press release In-Reply-To: <20080930150718.VPRT19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> References: <20080930150718.VPRT19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <0637A8F6-51A2-4DF9-BD69-E8C2300FF010@colorist.org> On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:07 PM, Jeff Booth wrote: > I have sent the document to Rob so he can pass on. I'll need permission from Michael Schneider, the author, to put it on the TIG wiki. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From craig at optimus.com Tue Sep 30 23:53:14 2008 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:53:14 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Thomson press release In-Reply-To: <0637A8F6-51A2-4DF9-BD69-E8C2300FF010@colorist.org> References: <20080930150718.VPRT19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> <0637A8F6-51A2-4DF9-BD69-E8C2300FF010@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1222815194.48e2addab6385@mognet.optimus.com> Quoting Rob Lingelbach : >> > I have sent the document to Rob so he can pass on. >> >> I'll need permission from Michael Schneider, the author, to put it on >> the TIG wiki. Call me crazy, but I thought the idea of "Press Releases" were that they were public information ... I did manage to find a link to any current Thompson Press release - here: http://www.thomsongrassvalley.net/news/press/ I don't see anything interesting except the sale of our division. There is a whole bunch of useless crap about the internet and cameras and making the world a safer place by bringing content to you in as shitty a wrapper as they can possibly produce though..... GO IPTV, and VOD, and Sports !!! 3 Cheers for public info !!! Craig Leffel Resident Curmudgeon ******************************************* The thoughts expressed in the above grumble are my own, and not meant to infer compliance, or represent any ideals of the TIG. The use of the term "Shitty" represents "Slang", however, carefully researched and documented via years of personal experience. Though in no way, am I suggesting I am an authority on Shit, and only use the term to represent my own ( invested ) opinion. From ken at flight4.org Tue Sep 30 18:23:04 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 01:23:04 +0800 Subject: [Tig] Ex Thomson Message-ID: <00a801c92321$33b4ce30$ea1ea8c0@flight4> On the basis that who knows who gets what.. I am passing on something that I received from Thomson, that didn't say that I couldn't pass on.. Just in case anyone didn't know. Stefan Kramper, formerly worldwide Director of Arri Digital Intermediate Business in Munich, is heading up the new company. The idea being that they have a better focus on the Post Prod market. Just sharing! Ken Robinson Hong Kong