From Michel.Lapointe at videotron.com Wed Oct 1 14:21:57 2008 From: Michel.Lapointe at videotron.com (Michel.Lapointe at videotron.com) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 09:21:57 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Question on Mpeg2 - 23.97 vs 29.97: In-Reply-To: <0637A8F6-51A2-4DF9-BD69-E8C2300FF010@colorist.org> Message-ID: Hello everybody I was a member of the TIG in a previous life and you guys remain the best source of reliable technical information ! Here is a new twist on the old 23.97 vs 29.97 issue: MPEG2 Program stream recorded on DVD can be either 29.97fps or 23.97fps (from pulldown removal or straight film transfer). That's a given. My question is: is there such a thing as a 23.97 MPEG2 Transport Stream ? and if there is, how do decoders would hande it ? I won't go here at length on the reason behind this request. I'll be glad to discuss it with anybody who is concerned by the issue. Thank you for your help. Michel Lapointe, ing. Analyste principal, services vidéo numériques Architecture de Transport & Distribution Ingénierie - Développement Technologies Vidéo VIDEOTRON From rob at colorist.org Wed Oct 1 19:46:21 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 15:46:21 -0300 Subject: [Tig] Thomson press release In-Reply-To: <1222815194.48e2addab6385@mognet.optimus.com> References: <20080930150718.VPRT19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> <0637A8F6-51A2-4DF9-BD69-E8C2300FF010@colorist.org> <1222815194.48e2addab6385@mognet.optimus.com> Message-ID: <6958366E-DAF8-44AA-BE2C-0A8A6C862368@colorist.org> On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Craig Leffel wrote: > Call me crazy, but I thought the idea of "Press Releases" were that > they were > public information ... could be, but it's always a good idea to check before posting something to a mailinglist that someone else wrote, there's a lot of misinformation on the net, and things change daily. > I did manage to find a link to any current Thompson Press release - > here: > > http://www.thomsongrassvalley.net/news/press/ > thanks Craig, that's what we needed. I've been 36 hours in transit and hadn't been on the net in that time, in order to translate the Thomson pdf to text in order to put it on the wiki (in fact I don't have currently any pdf2txt tools but could grab some..). but anyway, need to get some sleep. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From James_Deluca at crestdigital.com Thu Oct 2 00:14:57 2008 From: James_Deluca at crestdigital.com (James Deluca) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 16:14:57 -0700 Subject: [Tig] SD SDI mixers References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret> Message-ID: <7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com> Greetings: I have a few of the one rack-unit devices below. Currently one is selling for $50 bucks on eBay. Although manufactured by Oxtel in the U.K., I have units branded by Oxtel, Probel & Miranda. No longer in production, we use these units mostly for their keyer function in creating subtitled masters, but this 2-input, 2 output SDI mixer/keyers fill a specific niche. Working best with their no-longer available as new external control panels, they are reasonably usable if you can install them within arms reach of the user. And you cannot beat the price. Although one of the outputs (PREVIEW) is configurable as a PROGRAM, and was supposedly available with a composite vs SDI output choice, I have only seen the ALL SDI versions. If you care about embedded audio pass-thru (like in most keying situations) watch for the presence of multiple DB-25 connectors on the rear above the row of BNCs. Units without the digital audio option have a filler panel instead. Oxtel/Mirana EasyKey Automated SDI Digital Mixer/Keyer User Manual (EasyKey.PDF): http://tinyurl.com/4ne7oh James DeLuca Crest Digital Hollywood - Video Lab -----Original Message----- From: Andreas Wideroe [mailto:andreas at smalfilm.no] Sent: Tue 9/30/2008 4:04 AM To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] SD SDI mixers 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Hi, Can anyone recommend a simple mixer that has atleast two SD SDI inputs and one (or more) SD SDI output? The mixer has to be able to make a split 50/50 of two inputs to display on the screen and if possible a wipe (horizontal and vertical). We need this for comparing/matching scenes when colour correcting. Old/second hand models are perfect! Thanks! Andreas --- Norsk Smalfilm AS http://www.smalfilm.no Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 Fax: (+47) 38 02 33 84 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From dkeeling at colum.edu Thu Oct 2 01:51:56 2008 From: dkeeling at colum.edu (Dennis Keeling) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 19:51:56 -0500 Subject: [Tig] SD SDI mixers In-Reply-To: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret> Message-ID: <02DA71A0-1CF0-4A7F-A28F-D328C9D94165@colum.edu> We are installing one of the Panasonic AV-HS300G switchers to switch inputs to a projector in a theater. It is a nice little unit for about $7,000. Dennis Keeling Post Production Manager Department of Film & Video Columbia College Chicago Phone 312-369-6768 Fax 312-369-8044 http://www.filmatcolumbia.com On Sep 30, 2008, at 6:04 AM, Andreas Wideroe wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Biggi Klier supports the TIG > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Hi, > Can anyone recommend a simple mixer that has atleast two SD SDI > inputs and one (or more) SD SDI output? > > The mixer has to be able to make a split 50/50 of two inputs to > display on the screen and if possible a wipe (horizontal and > vertical). We need this for comparing/matching scenes when colour > correcting. > > Old/second hand models are perfect! > > Thanks! > Andreas > > --- > Norsk Smalfilm AS > http://www.smalfilm.no > > Filmshooting | Com - http://www.filmshooting.com > > Tel: (+47) 38 17 99 16 > Fax: (+47) 38 02 33 84 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From michael.schneider at thomson.net Thu Oct 2 10:36:08 2008 From: michael.schneider at thomson.net (Schneider Michael) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:36:08 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Thomson press release In-Reply-To: <001301c9246f$1895cc90$2201a8c0@Michael> References: <001301c9246f$1895cc90$2201a8c0@Michael> Message-ID: Dear all, please find below the text from our customer letter which was sent to our WW customers earlier this week. This is the one which Rob and Jeff talked about in recent e-mails, not the official Thomson press release used prior to IBC. Thanks to Rob for his sensitivity on this one, as it was a personal letter and not an official PR. We will provide further information as soon as they are available in the near future to keep you all updated. Best Regards, Michael Schneider Business Development EMEA Thomson Systems Germany GmbH Post Production Solutions Business Unit *************************************** Dear Customers and Business Partners, On behalf of Thomson, the Post Production Solutions (PPS) Business Unit team is pleased to inform you about the recent organizational changes announced at IBC earlier this month. As announced on Sept. 10, Thomson is selling its digital film transfer equipment, LUTher and Bones family business to private investors led by PARTER Capital Group, a German private equity investment consultancy firm based in Frankfurt. This transaction - which includes all Thomson Grass Valley branded film and digital intermediate post-production hardware and software including the Spirit family of film scanners and telecines, Bones family of dailies and post production tools, and LUTher color calibration systems - is expected to close in November 2008. In addition to this product portfolio, the transaction also will include the entire global post-production solutions team including dedicated service engineers as well as complete spare part stocks. As part of the transition to the new owners, Thomson's entire digital film transfer equipment business will be spun off into new international companies with operational headquarters in Weiterstadt, Germany. We also are pleased to inform you that PARTER Capital Group has selected Mr. Stefan Kramper, former worldwide director BU Digital Intermediate Systems at Arri in Munich, to be the Managing Director of the new company effective immediately upon the close of the transaction. Until the formal close of this transaction, the PPS Business Unit remains under the ownership of Thomson and your current Thomson contacts for services and sales will remain the same. Existing contracts and service level agreements which were signed with Thomson will remain valid in accordance with your contract / service level agreement. We are confident that the new company, led by Mr. Kramper, PARTER Capital Group's experienced management team, as well as PPS Business Unit team members, will dedicate themselves to meeting the unique and demanding needs of the post production market with vigor. With a focus on technology, services and sales, the new company will be even closer partners with you in this dynamic industry. We will continue to keep you posted in regard to updates regarding this business. In case you have any questions or need a contact person, please do not hesitate to contact us at film at thomson.net to make sure we can assist you in the best possible way. Best regards, Post Production Solutions Business Unit team ****************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Lingelbach" To: "Craig Leffel" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Tig] Thomson press release > On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Craig Leffel wrote: > >> Call me crazy, but I thought the idea of "Press Releases" were that they >> were >> public information ... > > could be, but it's always a good idea to check before posting something > to a mailinglist that someone else wrote, there's a lot of misinformation > on the net, and things change daily. > >> I did manage to find a link to any current Thompson Press release - >> here: >> >> http://www.thomsongrassvalley.net/news/press/ >> > > thanks Craig, that's what we needed. > > I've been 36 hours in transit and hadn't been on the net in that time, in > order to translate the Thomson pdf to text in order to put it on the wiki > (in fact I don't have currently any pdf2txt tools but could grab some..). > but anyway, need to get some sleep. > > Rob From jmann at postworks.com Thu Oct 2 14:10:00 2008 From: jmann at postworks.com (Jim Mann) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 09:10:00 -0400 Subject: [Tig] enginner needed In-Reply-To: <7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret> <7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com> Message-ID: <002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com> http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=76257908&aid=37813755-2108&WT. mc_n=MKT000125 I hope the link above raps around ok. I ran across this job, and thought I would post it in the event any of you engineer types are out of work. Regard, Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 F 212 941 0439 C 516 250 0909 Telecine Internet Group/Member Page Linkedin Profile ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From jdhouston at earthlink.net Thu Oct 2 15:40:16 2008 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 07:40:16 -0700 Subject: [Tig] enginner needed In-Reply-To: <002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret> <7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com> <002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com> Message-ID: <4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> Ahh government jobs.... gotta love the ad. Send Mail to: Civil Service Personnel-Civil Service & Iraq Jobs Do Not Mail Application Packet Bureau of Public Affairs (PA) Washington, DC 20520 Fax: 000-000-0000 So is the department called "Do Not Mail Application Packet"? Wonder if that Fax number is a super-secret one or just connects through 10 different operators! Jim On Oct 2, 2008, at 6:10 AM, Jim Mann wrote: > http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp? > JobID=76257908&aid=37813755-2108&WT. > mc_n=MKT000125 From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 2 17:53:06 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:53:06 -0300 Subject: [Tig] enginner needed In-Reply-To: <4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret> <7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com> <002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com> <4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Oct 2, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Jim Houston wrote: > Ahh government jobs.... gotta love the ad. > > Send Mail to: > > Civil Service Personnel-Civil Service & Iraq Jobs > Do Not Mail Application Packet that's considerably funny. as is the job title, which includes the really cool term "Audiovisual." Which reminds me of Telefunken, Grundig, Electrolux, General Electric, Admiral, Philco, Stromberg-Carlson, .... thought if they just changed it to AudioVisual, now that would be even cooler. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From dwainem at pacbell.net Thu Oct 2 18:51:15 2008 From: dwainem at pacbell.net (Dwaine Maggart) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:51:15 -0700 Subject: [Tig] enginner needed In-Reply-To: References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret><7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com><002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com><4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8DDD01352C144DFE88D8B3822AD5EC7F@dmduodell> Don't forget Wollensak and Singer. :) Dwaine -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach that's considerably funny. as is the job title, which includes the really cool term "Audiovisual." Which reminds me of Telefunken, Grundig, Electrolux, General Electric, Admiral, Philco, Stromberg-Carlson, .... thought if they just changed it to AudioVisual, now that would be even cooler. From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 2 18:39:41 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 14:39:41 -0300 Subject: [Tig] blog re: telecine factual? Message-ID: One of the problems with the web is you often don't know who wrote something, and how accurate it is. If someone on the TIG has the time, I wonder if this reference http://plumbot.com/Telecine.html is accurate? it purports to be an overview of telecine. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From dwainem at pacbell.net Thu Oct 2 19:28:30 2008 From: dwainem at pacbell.net (Dwaine Maggart) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:28:30 -0700 Subject: [Tig] enginner needed In-Reply-To: <7789A4C0-B287-4359-81DB-77EB6D095C25@colorist.org> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret><7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com><002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com><4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> <8DDD01352C144DFE88D8B3822AD5EC7F@dmduodell> <7789A4C0-B287-4359-81DB-77EB6D095C25@colorist.org> Message-ID: <8A6792EBA4BE4CD3BB5343B328D95AAE@dmduodell> Your Wollensak memories are much more poignant than mine, which are of tedious hours of dubbing educational audio cassettes on high speed Wollensak cassette dubbers in the A/V lab in college. Dwaine -----Original Message----- From: Rob Lingelbach [mailto:rob at colorist.org] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:10 AM To: Dwaine Maggart Cc: tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] enginner needed On Oct 2, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Dwaine Maggart wrote: > Don't forget Wollensak and Singer. :) Teac also? and Scully? I had a 1/4" Wollensak reel-to-reel in the early seventies, that I would buy prerecorded albums for, on their own 1/4" reels, at the music store. The very last music I played on that machine was Hendrix's last album, Cry to Love (i think that's what it was named) in 1971, in Paris. When next I plugged in the deck, I forgot to use the 220->110v converter, and fed it 220v. Smoke rose from the machine. What a drag, but .. Paris... Hendrix.. 1971.. it all made sense. So on my way walking across the Pont De L'Alma (gee I may have that spelling wrong) - the bridge closest to my college that took me to Av. Wagram where I lived- which gained some fame later as the last bridge crossed by Princess Diana - I dropped the Wollensak into the Seine, where no doubt it still gurgles Cry to Love. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From craig.fearing at orange.fr Fri Oct 3 00:12:20 2008 From: craig.fearing at orange.fr (Craig Fearing) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 01:12:20 +0200 Subject: [Tig] O.T. Old recorders (was enginner needed) In-Reply-To: <8A6792EBA4BE4CD3BB5343B328D95AAE@dmduodell> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret><7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com><002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com><4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> <8DDD01352C144DFE88D8B3822AD5EC7F@dmduodell> <7789A4C0-B287-4359-81DB-77EB6D095C25@colorist.org> <8A6792EBA4BE4CD3BB5343B328D95AAE@dmduodell> Message-ID: <001c01c924e4$52c6e640$f854b2c0$@fearing@orange.fr> Rob, Your spelling of Pont de L'Alma is correct, but the Princess died in the tunnel that takes the Voie Pompidou under the right-bank access to that bridge. Shame about the power supply. More than one daVinci supply has died in that same fashion. Fortunately, they all auto-switch these days. I was somewhat jealous of my best friend's Wollensak because it could do 1/4 track stereo, whereas my Webcor could only do 1/2 track. Later in life I "upgraded" to a Craig machine. Yep, that was its brand name. I've no idea where it went eventually, but it wasn't into the Seine -- that would be insane! Craig Fearing (No pecuniary interest in any obsolete audio gear) BTW, re the former topic, what is an "enginner"? Is that what I used to play on television? -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Dwaine Maggart Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 08:29 PM To: 'Rob Lingelbach' Cc: tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] enginner needed 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Your Wollensak memories are much more poignant than mine, which are of tedious hours of dubbing educational audio cassettes on high speed Wollensak cassette dubbers in the A/V lab in college. Dwaine -----Original Message----- From: Rob Lingelbach [mailto:rob at colorist.org] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:10 AM To: Dwaine Maggart Cc: tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] enginner needed On Oct 2, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Dwaine Maggart wrote: > Don't forget Wollensak and Singer. :) Teac also? and Scully? I had a 1/4" Wollensak reel-to-reel in the early seventies, that I would buy prerecorded albums for, on their own 1/4" reels, at the music store. The very last music I played on that machine was Hendrix's last album, Cry to Love (i think that's what it was named) in 1971, in Paris. When next I plugged in the deck, I forgot to use the 220->110v converter, and fed it 220v. Smoke rose from the machine. What a drag, but .. Paris... Hendrix.. 1971.. it all made sense. So on my way walking across the Pont De L'Alma (gee I may have that spelling wrong) - the bridge closest to my college that took me to Av. Wagram where I lived- which gained some fame later as the last bridge crossed by Princess Diana - I dropped the Wollensak into the Seine, where no doubt it still gurgles Cry to Love. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Sat Oct 4 18:53:27 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:53:27 +0300 Subject: [Tig] job listing Message-ID: <947B19AD-C714-4423-AE1A-8B3798A4313B@colorist.org> I ran across this job listing which might be of interest to TIGers: http://www.entertainmentcareers.net/id/?id=90635 (it is for Color Data Manager) The first paragraph is interesting to a linguist, switching verb persons and mixing declarative-accusative-nominative clauses and trailing non sequiturs. Could this be the mark of a... Palindrome? Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Sat Oct 4 22:13:04 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 00:13:04 +0300 Subject: [Tig] O.T. Old recorders (was enginner needed) In-Reply-To: <001c01c924e4$52c6e640$f854b2c0$@fearing@orange.fr> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret><7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com><002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com><4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> <8DDD01352C144DFE88D8B3822AD5EC7F@dmduodell> <7789A4C0-B287-4359-81DB-77EB6D095C25@colorist.org> <8A6792EBA4BE4CD3BB5343B328D95AAE@dmduodell> <001c01c924e4$52c6e640$f854b2c0$@fearing@orange.fr> Message-ID: <9389E9A9-D6C1-4A72-910C-377549F69384@colorist.org> On Oct 3, 2008, at 2:12 AM, Craig Fearing wrote: > Your spelling of Pont de L'Alma is correct, but the Princess died in > the > tunnel that takes the Voie Pompidou under the right-bank access to > that > bridge. in my imagination, because I had crossed that bridge on foot so many times, I had Diana/driver/et al. crossing the bridge before entering the freeway/ expressway/fast road along the Seine, but in truth I only knew they were close to the bridge. > Shame about the power supply. More than one daVinci supply has died > in that > same fashion. Fortunately, they all auto-switch these days. auto-switching. you just answered a longstanding question of mine. And I thought that was a chop-shop technique. > where it went eventually, but it wasn't into the Seine -- that would > be > insane! yes, you're right, but it was college life in Paris, la vie en rose... > BTW, re the former topic, what is an "enginner"? Is that what I > used to > play on television? did you appear on TV? and that would mean, over the air, analog, broadcast TV? so those who tune into our spectrum, galactically, will be able to see it in a few thousand years? To me, an enginner is "one who engins, or makes use of gin to gain an advantage, such as is done often on northern Long Island estates, at bridge parties ..." (src: F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From mikko.kuutti at kava.fi Sun Oct 5 09:22:40 2008 From: mikko.kuutti at kava.fi (Mikko Kuutti) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:22:40 +0300 Subject: [Tig] O.T. Old recorders (was enginner needed) In-Reply-To: <9389E9A9-D6C1-4A72-910C-377549F69384@colorist.org> References: <599263034D56459289DCEA4A01C14839@kontoret><7AEC23BF938477499E736BF0C030A92F048B07@lincoln.crestdigital.com><002201c92490$2d5b2b90$881182b0$@com><4136F727-132A-4569-9FDE-CEC8177AAEF5@earthlink.net> <8DDD01352C144DFE88D8B3822AD5EC7F@dmduodell> <7789A4C0-B287-4359-81DB-77EB6D095C25@colorist.org> <8A6792EBA4BE4CD3BB5343B328D95AAE@dmduodell> <001c01c924e4$52c6e640$f854b2c0$@fearing@orange.fr> <9389E9A9-D6C1-4A72-910C-377549F69384@colorist.org> Message-ID: But are enginners and enjuneers (as in “Six munce ago I coodn’t even spell enjuneer, and now I are one.”) related? Mikko Mikko Kuutti Deputy Director National Audiovisual Archive Pursimiehenkatu 29-31 A / P.O. Box 177, FI-00151 Helsinki, Finland tel. +358 9 6154 0254, mobile +358 40 900 0455 On 5.10.2008, at 0.13, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > On Oct 3, 2008, at 2:12 AM, Craig Fearing wrote: > >> BTW, re the former topic, what is an "enginner"? Is that what I >> used to >> play on television? > > did you appear on TV? and that would mean, over the air, analog, > broadcast > TV? so those who tune into our spectrum, galactically, will be > able to see it in > a few thousand years? > > To me, an enginner is "one who engins, or makes use of gin to gain an > advantage, such as is done often on northern Long Island estates, at > bridge parties ..." > (src: F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby) > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From owen at ywwg.com Sun Oct 5 17:08:26 2008 From: owen at ywwg.com (Owen Williams) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 12:08:26 -0400 Subject: [Tig] job listing In-Reply-To: <947B19AD-C714-4423-AE1A-8B3798A4313B@colorist.org> References: <947B19AD-C714-4423-AE1A-8B3798A4313B@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1223222906.12054.98.camel@ywwg> > The first paragraph is interesting to a linguist, switching verb > persons and mixing declarative-accusative-nominative clauses and > trailing non sequiturs. Could this be the mark of a... Palindrome? > > Rob Maybe "palin-drone" is a better term. owen From glennchan at gmail.com Mon Oct 6 03:04:58 2008 From: glennchan at gmail.com (glenn chan) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:04:58 -0400 Subject: [Tig] blog re: telecine factual? Message-ID: The content is probably copied/scraped off Wikipedia. Anybody who is interested in the Wikipedia can edit it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine Of course, this being the TIG, I should also mention that there is also the Tig Wiki. Glenn Chan colormancer.com Toronto, Canada From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Mon Oct 6 07:57:57 2008 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts - Post Production) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:57:57 +0100 Subject: [Tig] MK3 A/B Wind Switch Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BBE6@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Anyone have a UK source for the old long-arm toggle switch used for the A/B Wind selection on a Mk3? 25 years ago they were all over the place, but I've had no luck so far... Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 http://www.bbcresources.com BBC Resources Limited Registered Number 3593793 England Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Mon Oct 6 14:33:28 2008 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts - Post Production) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:33:28 +0100 Subject: [Tig] MK3 A/B Wind Switch In-Reply-To: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BBE6@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BBE6@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BBED@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Many thanks to all those who responded, I have now managed to find a source... Some little company called "Cintel" or something, who would have thunk it? ;) Steve Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 http://www.bbcresources.com BBC Resources Limited Registered Number 3593793 England Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Steve Roberts - Post Production Sent: 06 October 2008 07:58 To: tig at tig.colorist.org Subject: [Tig] MK3 A/B Wind Switch 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Anyone have a UK source for the old long-arm toggle switch used for the A/B Wind selection on a Mk3? 25 years ago they were all over the place, but I've had no luck so far... Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 http://www.bbcresources.com BBC Resources Limited Registered Number 3593793 England Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From jeff.booth at ntlworld.com Mon Oct 6 16:01:40 2008 From: jeff.booth at ntlworld.com (Jeff Booth) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:01:40 +0000 Subject: [Tig] MK3 A/B Wind Switch Message-ID: <20081006150140.GEKP29597.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Hi Steve, You could try Tony Taunton at Ascent142 Jeff > > From: "Steve Roberts - Post Production" > Date: 2008/10/06 Mon AM 06:57:57 GMT > To: > Subject: [Tig] MK3 A/B Wind Switch > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Biggi Klier supports the TIG > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Anyone have a UK source for the old long-arm toggle switch used for the > A/B Wind selection on a Mk3? 25 years ago they were all over the place, > but I've had no luck so far... > > Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources > Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ > > T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 > http://www.bbcresources.com > BBC Resources Limited > Registered Number 3593793 England > Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ > > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/ > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam From rob at colorist.org Mon Oct 6 16:13:19 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:13:19 +0300 Subject: [Tig] new on the TIG classifieds Message-ID: the latest on the TIG classifieds at http://www.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/Classifieds ---- We are a Mumbai based Digital Post Production setup looking for a colorist for our premium ad (television commercials) clients at our state of the art studio based in Lower Parel Mumbai. Our Telecine suite is equipped with a Sprit 2K coupled with a Pogle Platinum. Prime Focus provides cutting edge creative and technical services in the major entertainment markets of Mumbai, Chennai and Hyderabad in India and through our recently acquired studios VTR London, Post Logic in Los Angeles and Frantic Films in Canada. http://www.primefocusworld.com/india/ Any one interested can please get in touch with us on the below mentioned contact details. Regards, Kunaal Saigal kunaal.saigal at primefocusworld.com Senior Manager – Marketing / BD Prime Focus Ltd. Mob: +91 93245 94379 Off: +91 304 35000 -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From jdegn at thepostlounge.com Tue Oct 7 03:36:14 2008 From: jdegn at thepostlounge.com (Jan Degn) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:36:14 +1100 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?data_grading=2C_who_is_in_front=3F?= In-Reply-To: 09647762-BEDD-4046-8FDC-8289298D61E6@tedlangdell.com Message-ID: <20081007023614.5b89f663@mail.thepostlounge.com> Just read a claim that: Baselight with more than 200 installed systems is in the lead with nearly 4 times as many of it's leading competition. I find it hard to believe that there would only be 50 ish lustre setups out there. But am quite curious to know if anyone would have an idea of how many baselights, lustres, nucodas, resolves, scratches, blank? are there actually out there. Or perhaps an add-on question to the website poll: which system did you work on this week? cheers jan degn colourist the postlounge From rob at colorist.org Tue Oct 7 18:24:58 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:24:58 +0300 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? In-Reply-To: <20081007023614.5b89f663@mail.thepostlounge.com> References: <20081007023614.5b89f663@mail.thepostlounge.com> Message-ID: <5DC48BA7-FA47-4994-8E43-239BE8A4386A@colorist.org> On Oct 7, 2008, at 5:36 AM, Jan Degn wrote: > Or perhaps an add-on question to the website poll: which system > did you work on this week? we could do a new poll for systems, but what might be better is a table, editable by the user, of facility capability, an example of which is found at the bottom of this page: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TODO If there's enough interest I'll revive the "facility table" that any wiki user can edit. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From martin-p at moving-picture.com Tue Oct 7 18:31:11 2008 From: martin-p at moving-picture.com (Martin Parsons) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:31:11 +0100 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5590@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> There was an interesting set of monitors on the Boland stand. They have modulated R,G & B LED backlights to increase contrast. At the moment the monitors I've been looking at only have single HD-SDI in (dual link promised) and 8 bit panels (10 bit promised soon). There are a few niggles to be sorted out before I'd buy one - but that is to be expected with a new product. A bit like the Brightside (now Dolby) monitor but with RGB LEDs. It chucks out a lot of light - great for high dynamic range images - but the monitor has to be 'tamed' for regular HD ;-) www.bolandeurope.com I don't work for Boland or have any association with them other than testing their monitors for our benefit. Cheers Martin Martin Parsons Head of Imaging MPC Soho, London www.moving-picture.com From Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se Tue Oct 7 19:12:13 2008 From: Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se (Simon Cuff) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 20:12:13 +0200 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? References: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BE5@dvexch.digitalvision.se> Message-ID: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BEF@dvexch.digitalvision.se> > Just read a claim that: Baselight with more than 200 installed systems is in the lead with nearly 4 > times as many of it's leading competition. Hi Jan, I'd be interested to know where you read this as I don't think it is remotely correct (I know so). My research is that there are about the same number of Lustres out there (Autodesk product marketing claim 300) and that we are up around that number as well. Last year we shipped almost 100 systems and the vast majority of these were either Film Masters or Nucoda HD's. I agree with Rob that it would be interesting to do a poll. The real winner in the numbers game is Color or is that no longer consider as Data Grading? Simon Cuff Digital Vision From jeff.olm at gmail.com Tue Oct 7 19:50:02 2008 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:50:02 -0700 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? In-Reply-To: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BEF@dvexch.digitalvision.se> References: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BE5@dvexch.digitalvision.se> <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BEF@dvexch.digitalvision.se> Message-ID: <43298eae0810071150x53df69b5u7f62f39cfb5e8cb6@mail.gmail.com> Simon, I think the winner in that was Roland.(the guy that sold Final Touch to Apple) Off on a island somewhere I'm sure. On a yacht next to the SS Nothing Real.(the guys that sold Shake to Apple) Also parked neaby the SS Colorfront (the brothers that sold Lustre to Autodesk.) All great products that have their market and they all deserve their treasure. Just my opinion. best, Jeff Olm LA, CA On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Simon Cuff wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Biggi Klier supports the TIG > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > >> Just read a claim that: Baselight with more than 200 installed systems > is in the lead with nearly 4 >> times as many of it's leading competition. > > Hi Jan, > > I'd be interested to know where you read this as I don't think it is > remotely correct (I know so). > > My research is that there are about the same number of Lustres out there > (Autodesk product marketing claim 300) and that we are up around that > number as well. Last year we shipped almost 100 systems and the vast > majority of these were either Film Masters or Nucoda HD's. > > I agree with Rob that it would be interesting to do a poll. > > The real winner in the numbers game is Color or is that no longer > consider as Data Grading? > > Simon Cuff > Digital Vision > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From mikeg at filmlight.ltd.uk Tue Oct 7 21:09:55 2008 From: mikeg at filmlight.ltd.uk (Mike Grieve) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 21:09:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? Message-ID: <46038.10.44.0.4.1223410195.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> Hi, If you read the piece in its correct context, and know the identity of 'leading competition', it is correct. Mike Grieve FilmLight >> From: "Simon Cuff" >> Date: 7 October 2008 19:12:13 BST >> To: >> Subject: Re: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? >> >> 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 >> Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk >> Biggi Klier supports the TIG >> http://reels.colorist.org >> ==== >> >> >> >>> Just read a claim that: Baselight with more than 200 installed >>> systems >> is in the lead with nearly 4 >>> times as many of it's leading competition. >> >> Hi Jan, >> >> I'd be interested to know where you read this as I don't think it is >> remotely correct (I know so). >> >> My research is that there are about the same number of Lustres out >> there >> (Autodesk product marketing claim 300) and that we are up around that >> number as well. Last year we shipped almost 100 systems and the vast >> majority of these were either Film Masters or Nucoda HD's. >> >> I agree with Rob that it would be interesting to do a poll. >> >> The real winner in the numbers game is Color or is that no longer >> consider as Data Grading? >> >> Simon Cuff >> Digital Vision From rob at cinelab.com Tue Oct 7 19:26:17 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:26:17 -0400 Subject: [Tig] DAV Digital Deflection manual 50A In-Reply-To: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5590@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5590@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> Message-ID: <4801CFFD-3913-48DC-B7A0-59FADB6BBFBC@cinelab.com> > Hi Anybody out there have a Digital Deflection V 50A manual I think mine is V39 I am specifically looking for the section which refers to the Clearview setup. -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From rpunger at mac.com Tue Oct 7 20:16:35 2008 From: rpunger at mac.com (richard unger) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:16:35 -0400 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? In-Reply-To: <20081007023614.5b89f663@mail.thepostlounge.com> References: <20081007023614.5b89f663@mail.thepostlounge.com> Message-ID: <49947D29-B3AE-4B3B-9210-6C76D7F7C2D3@mac.com> Don't forget Quantel IQ with Pablo's On Oct 6, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Jan Degn wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Biggi Klier supports the TIG > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Just read a claim that: Baselight with more than 200 installed > systems is in the lead with nearly 4 times as many of it's leading > competition. > > I find it hard to believe that there would only be 50 ish lustre > setups out there. > > But am quite curious to know if anyone would have an idea of how > many baselights, lustres, nucodas, resolves, scratches, blank? are > there actually out there. > > Or perhaps an add-on question to the website poll: which system > did you work on this week? > > > cheers > jan degn > colourist > the postlounge > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 Rick Unger DI Colorist Milagropost.com 248-424-9550 office 313-401-1301 mobile From Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se Tue Oct 7 23:14:32 2008 From: Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se (Simon Cuff) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 00:14:32 +0200 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? References: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BE5@dvexch.digitalvision.se><364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BEF@dvexch.digitalvision.se> <43298eae0810071150x53df69b5u7f62f39cfb5e8cb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959C23@dvexch.digitalvision.se> Hi Jeff, You raise a valuable point. Last time I spoke to Roland he was hiding from his Silicon Color customers and getting frustrated with the way things are done inside planet ipod. That said he still seemed in good spirits. The Jaszberenyi's are definitely leading the pack from that perspective as last time I saw them they were trying to grow a field of grass (the legal sort you play football on) in the reception of their warehouse in Budapest. Aron - did the new lamps work out? Simon Digital Vision From craig at optimus.com Tue Oct 7 23:52:02 2008 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:52:02 -0500 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? In-Reply-To: <43298eae0810071150x53df69b5u7f62f39cfb5e8cb6@mail.gmail.com> References: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BE5@dvexch.digitalvision.se> <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BEF@dvexch.digitalvision.se> <43298eae0810071150x53df69b5u7f62f39cfb5e8cb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48EBE812.6040405@optimus.com> Jeff Olm wrote: > Simon, > I think the winner in that was Roland.(the guy that sold Final Touch to Apple) > Off on a island somewhere I'm sure. > Oh, what the hell... I'll throw in my 2 cents.... You're right Jeff - the winners are *always* the guys who get the money........... And I'm curious about you're opinion, because I know you use a number of systems with regularity.... My thought on who's leading Data grading is that no one is. At least, not overall... but I do think it breaks down into categories; 1. Heavy Iron systems These are systems that in my mind can work with hourly paying clients in the rooms, and can also provide element creation at the pace and requirements of the TV commercials side of our Biz....where speed and power are requirements of the job. Aren't these; Baselight 8, Davinci Resolve, Davinci Splice, Digital Vision Film Master and whatever Pandora system Festa works on ?? 2. Show systems - These are the systems that are ideal for Episodic and long form work, the exception being Motion Pictures. These can do compositing, graphics, titles, etc. They aren't ideal for commercials either. Some client supervision as well... I think it's pretty much Quantel Pablo ?? At least, if I were editing and coloring a show that's the obvious one to me... 3. Solo systems. Non Supervised, or lightly supervised work. Not charging necessarily by the hour..... Assimilate Scratch, Autodesk Lustre, FCP with Color, and a bunch more. I suppose even After Effects. 4. On Set grading - Speed Grade, Chrome, Color, Baselight, etc. ( Doesn't everyone say they have one of these? - I assume that Speed Grade rocks the hardest, but I'm partial to Baselight). 5. Motion Picture Systems ANY of the above systems depending on how much time, money and patience you have or your clients have. Because we've all heard stories of films being graded on god knows what, by god knows who........ Anyway Jeff.... You do this across many systems. I don't think there's a clear winner, just a clearer definition of what are the right tools for the right jobs... and I know which systems I would be willing to sit with clients and use, and try and charge $1000 an hour. I'm sure you have your faves as well. As for the film guys, I would assume there is a clear winner or two, depending on how much they are paying you and how much you need to get done how fast.... What do you think? Regards - Craig Leffel Resident Idiot. ________________________________________________________ The above strongly defined opinions are clearly my own and not even completely based in fact. Just observation, opinion and gestation of stories and tales.... I freely admit to potentially being wrong and / or mis-informed. That's why there's a bunch of question marks...... From glennchan at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 06:44:35 2008 From: glennchan at gmail.com (glenn chan) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 01:44:35 -0400 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors Message-ID: Regarding Boland... I spoke with one of them at NAB and was told that their monitors are wide gamut and that they leave the primaries where they are. They do not make them conform (e.g. via signal processing) to production standards like the SMPTE C, Rec. 709, or EBU primaries. Their rationale for this is that the consumer LCD market is moving towards wide gamut primaries and therefore the old standards don't apply / should be rethought. I don't believe that their approach is what the production community is looking for in a broadcast monitor. *Disclaimer: I do not work for Boland or competing companies. Glenn Chan Toronto, Canada colormancer.com From jdegn at thepostlounge.com Wed Oct 8 01:14:13 2008 From: jdegn at thepostlounge.com (Jan Degn) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:14:13 +1100 Subject: [Tig] =?iso-8859-1?q?data_grading=2C_who_is_in_front=3F?= In-Reply-To: 46038.10.44.0.4.1223410195.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk Message-ID: <20081008001413.0995a1ee@mail.thepostlounge.com> just a link to the correct context then, (not where I saw it initially, but I still read it the same way) http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/news_events/press_releases/press_release/20080908_baselightatibc Even though I know first hand that Lustre and Nucoda are both good systems, and I'm sure the baselight, resolve, Pablo, scatch and so on, is as well. I've wondered for some time whether there is room for everybody here, and the press release made me curious as to who is in front. My own personal guess is Lustre, Nucoda, Baselight seem to be the frontrunners based on numbers (happy to be corrected) But where is Pablo, Resolve, Scratch? comparing might even be a bit iffy as they all come in different configurations. Jan Degn Colourist The post lounge From Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se Tue Oct 7 23:56:14 2008 From: Simon.Cuff at digitalvision.se (Simon Cuff) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 00:56:14 +0200 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? References: <46038.10.44.0.4.1223410195.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> Message-ID: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959C2D@dvexch.digitalvision.se> > If you read the piece in its correct context, and know the identity of 'leading competition', it is > correct. Sorry Mike, I didn't see the original piece but I suppose if you call "leading competition" a manufacturer who is not selling many systems then I guess you are correct Simon Digital Vision From jeff.olm at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 02:14:58 2008 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:14:58 -0700 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? In-Reply-To: <48EBE812.6040405@optimus.com> References: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BE5@dvexch.digitalvision.se> <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959BEF@dvexch.digitalvision.se> <43298eae0810071150x53df69b5u7f62f39cfb5e8cb6@mail.gmail.com> <48EBE812.6040405@optimus.com> Message-ID: <43298eae0810071814pbc70ffcydc9a61fa74a83e90@mail.gmail.com> Craig, Good post. I agree with you on most points. I will say from a dead start NAB 2003 software DI has had a hell of a sprint. And Baselight, Nucoda, DaVinci have made the biggest leaps. Lustre had a good head start and has a good base of LA and Mubia. Maybe just Technicolor in London. I can tell from your rankings it's not high on your list for a commercial tool. Efilm seems to so OK with it for DI. Even in the new 2k dailies market now. Pablo it's big Iron, graphics, paint, compositing, editorial is pretty compelling for guys like me. But something to be said to separate the grade from the FX shots. A grade can get bogged down fast with FX requests unless it's just a fix and there is no fx available. A do think A over B layering basics should be available on all platforms. but it should work simply to not confuse the isse of it's a color system first. Hat's off to Simon and the Nucoda team for noise reduction, node trees and editorial features they have added, that product came a long way. But I think Pablo and Baselight have pretty good traction in LA at the moment. Over course Scratch got a huge bump in sales from the RED alliance. Speed Grade is great for some some tasks that involve decoding and mixed rez. My last few gigs have been stereo projects. Which now everybody has a tool set for. Last year there were 2. Scratch and Speed Grade. Pablo wasn't out yet. And it's still a very small market. But that's what we said about DI 5 years ago. It really comes down to the task, bandwidth required, local and factory support, and really addressing the features that you ask for to get day to day tasks done. If your vendor listens and they support you then everybody wins. If they sell you a box and move on, don't listen to feature requests, then nobody is going to be happy. And you won't buy one at your next gig. Or recommend them on a forum. That's my current opinion. They all have their market and place. And $1000 an hour platform is a short list. Thanks for asking Craig. Too bad about the Cubs and the Sox. Some day there will be a Chi-town series. best, Jeff Olm LA, CA From rob at colorist.org Wed Oct 8 11:14:48 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 13:14:48 +0300 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? In-Reply-To: <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959C2D@dvexch.digitalvision.se> References: <46038.10.44.0.4.1223410195.squirrel@alto.filmlight.ltd.uk> <364C11E5F589484FB57F3FF5E34BC11001959C2D@dvexch.digitalvision.se> Message-ID: <69D17550-DC19-48B7-8FCE-E4D941B00514@colorist.org> I think it's good to have this kind of discussion, but it can't devolve into sarcastic asides from one manufacturer about another. Antithetic to TIG guidelines. Manufacturers are welcome to provide information, and answer questions about their systems' capabilities, but not deride one system or systems in favor of their own. The reasons for this are manifold. Colorists and engineers who are end-users not paid by manufacturers have carte blanche, within the bounds of civil discussion. >> If you read the piece in its correct context, and know the identity >> of > 'leading competition', it is >> correct. > > Sorry Mike, I didn't see the original piece but I suppose if you call > "leading competition" a manufacturer who is not selling many systems > then I guess you are correct > > Simon > Digital Vision -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at cinelab.com Wed Oct 8 13:37:53 2008 From: rob at cinelab.com (Robert Houllahan) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:37:53 -0400 Subject: [Tig] DAV Digital Deflection manual 50A In-Reply-To: <40F4B5E4659640EB91B2528F45978F9E@dmduodell> References: <39EA469F166B7741B8E3305B5B58B49415EB5590@mpcosmail01.ad.mpc.local> <4801CFFD-3913-48DC-B7A0-59FADB6BBFBC@cinelab.com> <40F4B5E4659640EB91B2528F45978F9E@dmduodell> Message-ID: <341C89FC-3B0F-4E29-9F69-C50D63FE3894@cinelab.com> On Oct 7, 2008, at 8:44 PM, Dwaine Maggart wrote: > Hi Rob, > > I have a scanned PDF version of the Turbo2 Digital Deflection > Manual, Volume > 4, from Cintel. It seems to be for revision 13/14 of the DAV > firmware. There > is no mention anywhere in this manual of Clearview. I think that is probably the same pdf I have which seems to be a earlier rev of the dds one of our machines keeps turning on the clearview function on power-up and I have to go through the menus to find it and turn it off but it is not mentioned in the manual I have... -Rob- Robert Houllahan rob at cinelab.com Filmmaker Vp Cinelab Inc. www.cinelab.com From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Wed Oct 8 14:54:08 2008 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (Peter Swinson) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:54:08 -0400 Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format Message-ID: <200810080954_MC3-2-130A-313A@compuserve.com> Here's one for the older wrinklies on this forum. I was recently asked to explain where the 16:9 aspect ratio of HD and now many SD TVs came from. To date I have the following. NHK and maybe Sony proposed 5:3 for HD (15:9). This was regarded as the Golden Aspect ratio used in art. USA & Europe showed concern, (putting it politley), and it was suggested that the aspect should fall between 1.66:1 and 1.85:1, being the then widescreen film aspect ratios of Europe & USA. This suggested a ratio of 1.78:1, which was discussed I believe by SMPTE & EBU. It was agreed globally that an aspect ratio of 16:9 would meet this demand, and so it was born! In HD 1035 lines changed to 1080 to get square pixels and everyone lived happily ever-after. Except of course there were then suggestions of 2:1 and 2.4:1! Can anyone throw more light on the origination of 16:9 or confirm the history above. cheers Peter From jpo at prestodigital.ca Wed Oct 8 16:50:34 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:50:34 -0600 Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format In-Reply-To: <200810080954_MC3-2-130A-313A@compuserve.com> References: <200810080954_MC3-2-130A-313A@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <423B6AD3-54AF-44B3-A4C9-E04B90963355@prestodigital.ca> I did a little write-up to add to the CML archive on this very topic about 5 years ago. For someone else's recap with illustrations, visit http://forum.videohelp.com/topic350178.html and scroll down a little ways for the "Kerns Powers" solution. There are some interesting maths. It was pointed out to me more than 20 years ago that 16:9 is 4:3 squared... and of course 1.78 is the median equal-area ratio between 4:3 and 2.35:1. And nothing to do with "phi" the Golden Mean. Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From dlt at earthlink.net Thu Oct 9 06:17:14 2008 From: dlt at earthlink.net (David Tosh) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:17:14 -0700 Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format In-Reply-To: <200810080954_MC3-2-130A-313A@compuserve.com> References: <200810080954_MC3-2-130A-313A@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <48ED93DA.3030003@earthlink.net> Peter Swinson wrote: >... > This suggested a ratio of 1.78:1, ... > It was agreed globally that an aspect ratio of 16:9 would meet this > demand, There is some hope for the world, after all, where we can agree that 16 divided by 9 can be considered close enough to 1.78..... Just heckling from the end barstool, Peter. ;-) --- David Tosh Recovering Telecine engineer From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Oct 9 18:03:03 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:03:03 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame Message-ID: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> Asking on behalf of an AMIA member who's not aware of/on the TIG (yet...) He wants to know: "Is there a facility in the Los Angeles area that can transfer very shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD? We've tried a Spirit and we keep losing frame." I asked "How much shrinkage?" He says: "Well, pretty damned shrunken. It will barely fit on a Fox perf splicing block. It's the first thing that I've had that I couldn't get to go on the Spirit." I've asked how many feet/reels are involved. I'll pass on your replies. Thanks much, Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From ted at tedlangdell.com Thu Oct 9 18:44:14 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:44:14 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame-700'... apx 1925 In-Reply-To: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <3B9E42D7-7C1A-4085-AFAD-22B0ED4F77BE@tedlangdell.com> I'm advised the film is about 700' of silent (1925 or so) Ted On Oct 9, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Ted Langdell wrote: > Asking on behalf of an AMIA member who's not aware of/on the TIG > (yet...) > > He wants to know: > > "Is there a facility in the Los Angeles area that can transfer very > shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD? We've tried a Spirit and we keep > losing frame." > > I asked "How much shrinkage?" > > He says: > > "Well, pretty damned shrunken. It will barely fit on a Fox perf > splicing block. It's the first thing that I've had that I couldn't > get to go on the Spirit." > > I've asked how many feet/reels are involved. > > I'll pass on your replies. > > Thanks much, > > Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 9 19:50:27 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 21:50:27 +0300 Subject: [Tig] remastering Touch of Evil Message-ID: <77504E2F-C39A-4CE5-A015-4FC1125C0FB2@colorist.org> at http://tinyurl.com/4359np is a lengthy comment on the 50th anniversary remastering of the Welles film "Touch of Evil" specifically regarding the framing. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rlovejoy at comcast.net Thu Oct 9 20:07:52 2008 From: rlovejoy at comcast.net (rlovejoy at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 19:07:52 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame Message-ID: <100920081907.416.48EE56880007F7D9000001A022135285739701060A9001049D@comcast.net> In the For What It's Worth category, our Spirit 2k comes with a large sticker noting that nitrate film is not to be transferred on this machine. Bob Lovejoy Shooters Philadelphia -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Ted Langdell > Asking on behalf of an AMIA member who's not aware of/on the TIG > > "Is there a facility in the Los Angeles area that can transfer very > shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD? We've tried a Spirit and we keep losing > frame." From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Thu Oct 9 20:24:41 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 20:24:41 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <67D5F9EB78BA4D5BA5827DB2A8F5B0C6@Sprocket> Your very brave trying an old nitrate like that on a Spirit, that's the only thing that for legal liability they say don't put on a Spirit. 300w or 700w sitting right next to a Nitrate ...ooh! Hope your company's insurance is good. There are specialists in London that can deal with this, but I don't know about LA. Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell Sent: 09 October 2008 18:03 To: Telecine Internet Group Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Asking on behalf of an AMIA member who's not aware of/on the TIG (yet...) He wants to know: "Is there a facility in the Los Angeles area that can transfer very shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD? We've tried a Spirit and we keep losing frame." I asked "How much shrinkage?" He says: "Well, pretty damned shrunken. It will barely fit on a Fox perf splicing block. It's the first thing that I've had that I couldn't get to go on the Spirit." I've asked how many feet/reels are involved. I'll pass on your replies. Thanks much, Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From cased at atlab.com.au Thu Oct 9 23:08:16 2008 From: cased at atlab.com.au (Dominic Case) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:08:16 +1100 Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format Message-ID: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51027D317C@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> >There is some hope for the world, after all, where we can agree that 16 divided by 9 >can be considered close enough to 1.78..... Well, close enough. That's a better outcome than the failed Indiana Pi bill of 1897 which, had it been passed, would have resulted in the value of pi being standardised at 3.2. Apart from the debate over what shape a circle would be if pi was in fact equal to 3.2, and bringing this back onto topic, there was once a proposal to have a round-screen TV standard: this would of course have elimiated all arguments about aspect ratio. _________________________________ Dominic Case Atlab Australia ________________________________ views expressed here may be mine alone ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From jfmann at optimum.net Fri Oct 10 04:59:48 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:59:48 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> Ted, If it is a "Classic Spirit" and assuming that your material has not progressed passed stage II decomposition. (All nitrate film is now at least Stage II.) I do not think you will blow up. The flash point of a stage II nitrate film is about that of a piece of paper. As Mr. Lovejoy said do not put Nitrate on a new Spirit HD, Spirit2K or 4K. I have transferred Nitrate on a Spirit classic....I do not recommend it. The film sheds dust that gets into the condenser lens and filter wheel resulting in a machine that can get so covered, it will not FPN. It also results in a pissed off engineer, who has to clean up the mess. The Stages of Nitrate film (as per me and the NPS) Stage II Amber color, Nitric acid smell, Negative may be a little sticky. Base gets brittle. Emulsion gets soft. Stage III Amber color is deeper, Nitric gas bubbles form between the base and emulsion, The stink gets stronger. Film base is very brittle. Stage IV Sticky froth, bubbles, film sticks to everything. Smells like puke. Very strong puke. Let some of this stuff rub on to your clothing then go through one of those bomb sniffing machines at the airport...good luck. Stage V....don't worry you'll just know. I can also tell you that shrinkage can vary within a roll. As you get deeper into the roll horizontal shrinkage can increase, resulting in the sprocket wheel just catching the inside of the perfs and ripping the outer edges off the brittle film. Trust me I know. Ted, I think you're lucky your jumping out of frame. It means the film has not become too brittle. The Spirit has a gentle film transport but....you would need custom sprocket wheel to run your film. "Well, pretty damned shrunken. " The AMIA offers a gauge to assess the percentage of shrinkage. At http://www.amianet.org/resources/guides/shrinkage_gauge.pdf Or for a rough idea use a normal 35mm leader and count 100 perfs and mark it with a sharpie. Then line it up with your film. If at Perf 100 your film is a 98 perfs then your 2%, 97 perfs then your 3% and so on. Good Luck Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 C 516-250-0909 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Oct 10 06:03:28 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 22:03:28 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> Message-ID: <7C3CDD57-997D-456B-AC28-2F1BCBF0C9FD@tedlangdell.com> Hi, Jim and the other responders... I've been passing your comments on to our AMIA member colleague for whom I posted the original message this morning. I had advised him of the AMIA shrinkage gauge (a loan-item for member use) and to also try estimating with the 100-perf method. Haven't heard back about whether he's done that. Jim, I appreciate the depth of your comments here. Would an HD flying spot scanner by either our friendly UK or US vendors be likely to offer a solution? Are there other scanners... Imagica, Genesis, (insert suggested make and model here) that are worth considering? I'll pass this on and see whether there's a 100-perf test being done. I'm curious to know just how short or narrow the film has become. Again, thanks to all who have replied so far. Ted On Oct 9, 2008, at 8:59 PM, Jim Mann wrote: > Ted, > If it is a "Classic Spirit" and assuming that your material has not > progressed passed stage II decomposition. (All nitrate film is now > at least Stage II.) I do not think you will blow up. The flash > point of a stage II nitrate film is about that of a piece of paper. > As Mr. Lovejoy said do not put Nitrate on a new Spirit HD, Spirit2K > or 4K. I have transferred Nitrate on a Spirit classic....I do not > recommend it. The film sheds dust that gets into the condenser lens > and filter wheel resulting in a machine that can get so covered, it > will not FPN. It also results in a pissed off engineer, who has to > clean up the mess. > > The Stages of Nitrate film (as per me and the NPS) > > Stage II Amber color, Nitric acid smell, Negative may be a little > sticky. Base gets brittle. Emulsion gets soft. > Stage III Amber color is deeper, Nitric gas bubbles form between > the base and emulsion, The stink gets stronger. Film base is very > brittle. > Stage IV Sticky froth, bubbles, film sticks to everything. Smells > like puke. Very strong puke. Let some of this stuff rub on to your > clothing then go through one of those bomb sniffing machines at the > airport...good luck. > Stage V....don't worry you'll just know. > > I can also tell you that shrinkage can vary within a roll. As you > get deeper into the roll horizontal shrinkage can increase, > resulting in the sprocket wheel just catching the inside of the > perfs and ripping the outer edges off the brittle film. Trust me I > know. Ted, I think you're lucky your jumping out of frame. It means > the film has not become too brittle. > > The Spirit has a gentle film transport but....you would need custom > sprocket wheel to run your film. > > "Well, pretty damned shrunken. " > > The AMIA offers a gauge to assess the percentage of shrinkage. At > http://www.amianet.org/resources/guides/shrinkage_gauge.pdf > > Or for a rough idea use a normal 35mm leader and count 100 perfs > and mark it with a sharpie. Then line it up with your film. If at > Perf 100 your film is a 98 perfs then your 2%, 97 perfs then your > 3% and so on. > Good Luck > Jim > > > Jim Mann > Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist > [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK > Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 From Laurence.Claydon at deluxedigital.co.uk Fri Oct 10 09:54:11 2008 From: Laurence.Claydon at deluxedigital.co.uk (Laurence Claydon) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:54:11 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <67D5F9EB78BA4D5BA5827DB2A8F5B0C6@Sprocket> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <67D5F9EB78BA4D5BA5827DB2A8F5B0C6@Sprocket> Message-ID: .....I gather even the kind of fire extinguisher you need to put it out is now illegal! (pyrene/halon) Laurence Claydon Deluxe Digital London d: 020 7408 7331 m: 07920 725110 -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Graham Collett Sent: 09 October 2008 20:25 To: 'Ted Langdell'; 'Telecine Internet Group' Subject: Re: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Your very brave trying an old nitrate like that on a Spirit, that's the only thing that for legal liability they say don't put on a Spirit. 300w or 700w sitting right next to a Nitrate ...ooh! Hope your company's insurance is good. There are specialists in London that can deal with this, but I don't know about LA. Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell Sent: 09 October 2008 18:03 To: Telecine Internet Group Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Asking on behalf of an AMIA member who's not aware of/on the TIG (yet...) He wants to know: "Is there a facility in the Los Angeles area that can transfer very shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD? We've tried a Spirit and we keep losing frame." I asked "How much shrinkage?" He says: "Well, pretty damned shrunken. It will barely fit on a Fox perf splicing block. It's the first thing that I've had that I couldn't get to go on the Spirit." I've asked how many feet/reels are involved. I'll pass on your replies. Thanks much, Ted Ted Langdell Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA Main: (530) 741-1212 tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and Creative Services since 1974 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Fri Oct 10 09:37:58 2008 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:37:58 +0100 Subject: [Tig] candid thoughts on IBC monitors (glenn chan) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48EF1466.30400@filmlight.ltd.uk> tig-request at colorist.org wrote: > Regarding Boland... I spoke with one of them at NAB and was told that their > monitors are wide gamut and that they leave the primaries where they are. > They do not make them conform (e.g. via signal processing) to production > standards like the SMPTE C, Rec. 709, or EBU primaries. Their rationale for > this is that the consumer LCD market is moving towards wide gamut primaries > and therefore the old standards don't apply / should be rethought. > I don't believe that their approach is what the production community is > looking for in a broadcast monitor. > If you can, have a look at those Boland monitors in a dark room. They are big monitors, and the viewing angle is not good. I could see significant variation across the screen without moving my head. I looked for this but I could not see it on the IBC stand because things were too bright. This viewing angle problem bars Bolands for grading for now. If you turn off all the smarts on the Boland monitor then you get about 1400:1. It is not clear how we ought to define contrast range for a monitor that adjusts its own back light. It has over 6000:1 light-dark range but it is not clear what simultaneous contrast it can manage. When calibrating CRTs I tend to use the middle 50% of the screen only as CRTs and plasmas usually cannot provide a full screen white at the full brightness. I have hacked my calibration software so the surround for the middle 50% can be 50% grey instead of black. This isn't particularly scientific, but it is probably more realistic than measuring all black, or half white half black. There are some intriguing possibilities for LED backlighting. There are good blues and reds but there are non good LEDs with peaks at about 555nm where our green sensitivity peaks. I think what Boland may have done is use a shorter wavelength green and hope the breen LCD filter drags it back to the right place. However, this leaves the interesting possibility of driving a monitor using two greens - 520 nm and 570 nm - and using them separately for mixing saturated blue-greens, and yellow-greens. The two greens signals could be generated from the incoming RGB. Beware! Odd primaries are hard to calibrate. Projectors like the DP90P have a lovely deep red, but as this comes half-way down the long side of the eye's red peak, small shifts in eye sensitivity can cause us to see it differently, and the same goes for calibration instruments. I have seen some other strange primaries lately. The cheap end of the Dell range seem to have a monitor where they have added a bit of blue to what was probably a somewhat orange red to give a bright, punchy but somewhat pinkish-looking red, but it gives strange results on monitor probes. Indeed, the Boland with its active back light can achieve the same color with different combinations of backlight and LCD, which will give a different spectrum. My suggestion of a 4-LED back light would make it worse. I have often wondered about larger color gamuts. It is frustrating when quite ordinary colours like flesh tones with arm lighting, brick reds, and ice blues cannot be matched. It is easy to look at the CIE u'v' plots of colour space, and wonder what all these amazing colors outside the video triangle look like. Right now, though, those extra colors seem to come at a cost, and I would not blame anyone for wanting to stick with the safe video primaries. Is there a solution? We could crank out the primaries 5% at a time, which would be fairly safe to start with, but by the time we get to the Barco DP90P red, we will be back where we started. The best I can suggest is that we go to more than 3 primaries, with conventional high-efficiency and easy to calibrate video RGB for the bulk of the signal, and fill-in in primaries (blue-violet, green-blue, deep red) for extending the gamut, but with reduced intensity. Interesting times, or what? Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 or 0409 224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 10 10:49:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:49:42 +0300 Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format In-Reply-To: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51027D317C@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> References: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51027D317C@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> Message-ID: On Oct 10, 2008, at 1:08 AM, Dominic Case wrote: > Well, close enough. That's a better outcome than the failed Indiana > Pi bill > of 1897 which, had it been passed, would have resulted in the value > of pi > being standardised at 3.2. the value of Pi in Indiana might well be different from the standard, as it's a fairly one-dimensional space. > Apart from the debate over what shape a circle would be if pi was in > fact > equal to 3.2, and bringing this back onto topic, there was once a > proposal > to have a round-screen TV standard: this would of course have > elimiated all > arguments about aspect ratio. fascinating. I think there were TVs that showed a full circular CRT to the viewer. there must have been at some time a video artwork that presented in portrait mode, where one would either lie down to see it or turn the monitor 90 degrees. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 10 16:28:54 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:28:54 +0300 Subject: [Tig] engineer required, LA Message-ID: <70862D22-E11F-4543-A7F0-8446D2F8F8C0@colorist.org> Engineer required - Based in the LA area. We are looking for an energetic engineer based in the LA area to help us look after our customers on behalf of a number of companies from the Post Industry. Although the following criteria would be beneficial, an ability to learn, be self motivated and to have an excellent understanding of the day to day pressures of the operation of a Post House would be ideal. The following knowledge base would be required at some point:- Linux based systems Video equipment and operations Networks Color Science Please contact adam at bigpicmedia.net if you have any questions or would like to be considered. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From edcol at usinter.net Fri Oct 10 18:27:42 2008 From: edcol at usinter.net (Ed Colman) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:27:42 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <7C3CDD57-997D-456B-AC28-2F1BCBF0C9FD@tedlangdell.com> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> <7C3CDD57-997D-456B-AC28-2F1BCBF0C9FD@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: > > > Hi, Jim and the other responders... I have spoken to Jerry at our film restoration department, and he said to give him a call. 818.846.3102 ext. 227 They will evaluate the film and recommend any repair/restoration necessary. We have a Millennium HD machine and that might be an option if the film is not too far gone. If you like you can phone me and I will help you as best as I can. Ed Colman Director of Commercial Services FotoKem Film & Video 2801 W. Alameda Ave. Burbank, CA 91505 Direct: 818.846.3102 ext. 585 Fax: 818.841.2130 From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Fri Oct 10 17:31:42 2008 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:31:42 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> Message-ID: <4809A5BB-BCC7-428A-AB19-D7C0575EC297@mindspring.com> There is a scanner that can handle extremely shrunken and damaged film, the Kinetta Archival Scanner. Totally sprocketless, extremely gentle, resolutions up to 5K available (easily upgradable -- base resolution is 2400 x 1800). The original version was built for the Library of Congress to scan the paper print collection, which has notoriously bad perfs. I am delivering their second one (for odd film formats, including 22mm and 28mm) next week. Torn and damaged perfs don't require repair before scanning, and it will accept spices made of gaffer tape and, probably, chewing gum, though we have not tried that yet. Note this is not designed as a scanner for new film -- there are many fine machines for that -- from Arri, Imagica, the current owner of Bosch/BTS/Philips/GVG's Spirit line, Northlight, and others -- it's specifically for the archival world. For you archivists, we'll be showing it privately at AMIA. The idea is to make scanning and digital restoration so affordable that there's no excuse not to preserve every frame of film in your archive. I won't say more, since I don't want to be guilty of advertising on the TIG. Jeff "I've said too much, I haven't said enough" Kreines (channeling M. Stipe) Kinetta From chris at sealevelvfx.com Fri Oct 10 22:13:10 2008 From: chris at sealevelvfx.com (Christopher Noellert) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:13:10 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Digital Vision's Reorganization... Message-ID: Nasty business... perhaps one less player soon? http://www.digitalvision.se/news/DigitalVisionDigitalVisionappliesforreorganisation.htm Good luck to all those affected, Chris -- SEA LEVEL VENICE | Visual Effects Chris Noellert : VFX/Flame Artist 69 Market Street, Venice, CA 90291 p. 310.664.0900 c. 310.699.2151 www.sealevelvfx.com From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 10 22:22:04 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:22:04 +0300 Subject: [Tig] call for spots, or other short work Message-ID: <9CF240DE-EB17-4475-B921-A57093E4C8F0@colorist.org> The TIG wiki site welcomes any colorist's work for presentation on the main page, as streaming flash video. All short (less than 4 minutes or so) pieces considered and will be placed in rotation. Colorist reel streaming service is also available at http://reels.colorist.org -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob at bluescreen.com Fri Oct 10 23:37:21 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:37:21 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <4809A5BB-BCC7-428A-AB19-D7C0575EC297@mindspring.com> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> <4809A5BB-BCC7-428A-AB19-D7C0575EC297@mindspring.com> Message-ID: >it will accept spices made of gaffer tape and, >probably, chewing gum, though we have not tried that yet. Mmmmm...spices made from gaffer tape. Is there some kind of ritual involved? Is the gaffer tape shredded to a fine dust, put into one of those incense burners the Catholics use in church, and waved over the Kinetta scanner (notice how I worked in the name just to give you a plug)? If you do decide to go the chewing gum route, please be considerate and use sugar-free to limit the cavities the film may pick up in the process. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com Sat Oct 11 02:28:02 2008 From: bob.micheletti at nbcuni.com (Micheletti, Bob (NBC Universal)) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:28:02 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <7C3CDD57-997D-456B-AC28-2F1BCBF0C9FD@tedlangdell.com> References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com><000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> <7C3CDD57-997D-456B-AC28-2F1BCBF0C9FD@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <7E83FFCD85919542AB2BEAFFC0004C661DA65BE2@UCTMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com> I have a shrinkage gage that I would be willing to loan if someone needs one in the LA area. It's a little heavy and an awkward shape (about 3'long) to ship. Bob Micheletti Engineer Universal Pictures Over the hill from Hollywood > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org > [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:03 PM > To: Telecine Internet Group > Subject: Re: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame > > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Biggi Klier supports the TIG > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > Hi, Jim and the other responders... > > I've been passing your comments on to our AMIA member > colleague for whom I posted the original message this morning. > > I had advised him of the AMIA shrinkage gauge (a loan-item for member > use) and to also try estimating with the 100-perf method. > Haven't heard back about whether he's done that. > > Jim, I appreciate the depth of your comments here. > > Would an HD flying spot scanner by either our friendly UK or > US vendors be likely to offer a solution? > > Are there other scanners... Imagica, Genesis, (insert > suggested make and model here) that are worth considering? > > I'll pass this on and see whether there's a 100-perf test > being done. I'm curious to know just how short or narrow the > film has become. > > Again, thanks to all who have replied so far. > > Ted > > On Oct 9, 2008, at 8:59 PM, Jim Mann wrote: > > > Ted, > > If it is a "Classic Spirit" and assuming that your material has not > > progressed passed stage II decomposition. (All nitrate film > is now at > > least Stage II.) I do not think you will blow up. The flash > point of a > > stage II nitrate film is about that of a piece of paper. > > As Mr. Lovejoy said do not put Nitrate on a new Spirit HD, > Spirit2K or > > 4K. I have transferred Nitrate on a Spirit classic....I do not > > recommend it. The film sheds dust that gets into the condenser lens > > and filter wheel resulting in a machine that can get so covered, it > > will not FPN. It also results in a pissed off engineer, who has to > > clean up the mess. > > > > The Stages of Nitrate film (as per me and the NPS) > > > > Stage II Amber color, Nitric acid smell, Negative may be a little > > sticky. Base gets brittle. Emulsion gets soft. > > Stage III Amber color is deeper, Nitric gas bubbles form > between the > > base and emulsion, The stink gets stronger. Film base is > very brittle. > > Stage IV Sticky froth, bubbles, film sticks to everything. > Smells like > > puke. Very strong puke. Let some of this stuff rub on to > your clothing > > then go through one of those bomb sniffing machines at the > > airport...good luck. > > Stage V....don't worry you'll just know. > > > > I can also tell you that shrinkage can vary within a roll. > As you get > > deeper into the roll horizontal shrinkage can increase, > resulting in > > the sprocket wheel just catching the inside of the perfs > and ripping > > the outer edges off the brittle film. Trust me I know. Ted, I think > > you're lucky your jumping out of frame. It means the film has not > > become too brittle. > > > > The Spirit has a gentle film transport but....you would need custom > > sprocket wheel to run your film. > > > > "Well, pretty damned shrunken. " > > > > The AMIA offers a gauge to assess the percentage of shrinkage. At > > http://www.amianet.org/resources/guides/shrinkage_gauge.pdf > > > > Or for a rough idea use a normal 35mm leader and count 100 > perfs and > > mark it with a sharpie. Then line it up with your film. If > at Perf 100 > > your film is a 98 perfs then your 2%, 97 perfs then your 3% > and so on. > > Good Luck > > Jim > > > > > > Jim Mann > > Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist > > [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK > > > > Ted Langdell > Ted Langdell Creative Broadcast Services Marysville, CA > Main: (530) 741-1212 > > tedlangdell.com. Storytelling through Broadcast Coverage and > Creative Services since 1974 > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From jfmann at optimum.net Sat Oct 11 02:53:10 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:53:10 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <67D5F9EB78BA4D5BA5827DB2A8F5B0C6@Sprocket> Message-ID: <000001c92b44$1d454820$57cfd860$@net> >Laurence Claydon Wrote: .....I gather even the kind of fire extinguisher you need to put it out is now illegal! (pyrene/halon) All this talk of nitrate film.... The most beautiful Black and white you will ever transfer, reminded me that you can go to Frank Wylie's website and at the bottom of the page you can watch him burn nitrate film underwater. See: http://www.movieeditor.com/2005/nitrate.fire.html Regards, Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 C 516-250-0909 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From jeffkreines at mindspring.com Sat Oct 11 17:47:52 2008 From: jeffkreines at mindspring.com (Jeff Kreines) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:47:52 -0500 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> <4809A5BB-BCC7-428A-AB19-D7C0575EC297@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Oct 10, 2008, at 5:37 PM, Bob Kertesz wrote: > Is there some kind of ritual involved? Is the gaffer tape shredded > to a fine > dust, put into one of those incense burners the Catholics use in > church, and > waved over the Kinetta scanner (notice how I worked in the name just > to give > you a plug)? Ha! Powdered gaffer tape. I found a couple of cases of Permacel gaffer tape from 1981 in a closet I was cleaning out... it still half- worked, but was generating a little powder itself. But I was referring to a piece of gaffer tape folded over a break in a roll of 35mm film -- you can find really odd "splices" in rolls of material that no one expected to be of future use. Staples, masking tape, packing tape, misaligned film -- all will pass through, though there may be a jump in framing at the "splice." The biggest time-saver is the fact you don't have to fix torn perfs. As long as the splices hold (i.e. don't open up) the film will pass through without problem (though staples could gouge the PTRs). Jeff "finally shipping" Kreines From rob at colorist.org Sat Oct 11 17:52:38 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:52:38 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: References: <74758277-FF91-4A15-A94B-5B491E4C7E53@tedlangdell.com> <000001c92a8c$a3bfbdd0$eb3f3970$@net> <4809A5BB-BCC7-428A-AB19-D7C0575EC297@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <577A6F08-74ED-4B20-B45E-D5269D973AA3@colorist.org> On Oct 11, 2008, at 7:47 PM, Jeff Kreines wrote: > was cleaning out... it still half-worked, but was generating a > little powder itself. > > But I was referring to a piece of gaffer tape folded over a break in > a roll of 35mm film this occurs because the adhesive has moisture built-in, and that dries out. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Mon Oct 13 11:56:02 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:56:02 +0300 Subject: [Tig] holographic tv advancements Message-ID: <3BC8EB98-E95E-4124-8310-0D1ECEBFA035@colorist.org> http://tinyurl.com/3gpvo2 -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Mon Oct 13 18:10:57 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:10:57 +0300 Subject: [Tig] client services, where Message-ID: <5B046B60-86CD-4C20-9684-0547A553A18F@colorist.org> it used to be, in LA, that facilities had the services of a chef, trained in France, to serve meals for the clients and the employees (thinking of POP). those days are long gone, unless someone advises otherwise. previous to the french-trained-chef, we had the client services person (girl) who would bake chocolate-chip cookies and serve them at about 3-4 pm to the clients in every suite. is this a nostalgic, thing of the past? I tend to think so. there was another function of the client services girl, which was that she (or he) provide, at times, a completely neutral opinion (hopefully) of the grading, when she (or he) was asked to, when the clients (and colorist) wanted to be guided by "neutral" opinion. I would suggest that such a 'neutral observer' be an important part of any post facility, and that perhaps this person wear a placard as designating neutral, so that the clients and colorist would be reassured as to the origin of said influence. if we are devoid now, because of budget cuts, of this observer, we might find our work not as well-received, and instead procuring another avenue, for a 'neutral observer.' -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rick at fsm.com.au Tue Oct 14 00:22:19 2008 From: rick at fsm.com.au (Rick Schweikert) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:22:19 +1100 Subject: [Tig] client services, where In-Reply-To: <5B046B60-86CD-4C20-9684-0547A553A18F@colorist.org> Message-ID: <3056.97111223940474.mail3.dmz.fsm.com.au@MHS> Hi Rob FSM, Sydney runs a fully catered kitchen with chef (not French, more Greek origin), several runners/kitchen hands and a dedicated client services runner to look after coffees and so on. We've done this in our current location for the last 9 years. In recent times we've scaled back the menu considerably because of the significant expense but have decided against dropping completely. We do charge clients for meals, and we now charge staff a token amount too - otherwise it would be intolerable. The revenue generated does not cover the running costs, however, there is an argument that if done well there is a lost leader situation. It poses a great problem on how to feed 60 staff and 20 - 30 clients per day if we don't do it ourselves. I remember one place in LA several years ago that also had a valet service as well - Digital Magic perhaps - and they're no longer with us. The one terrific thing about the runners - who are typically university or college students - is we've placed many of them in junior operational positions within the company and they've gone on to be telecine assistants/colourists, tape operators, motion graphic designers and producers. You get to know them and their work ethic before engaging them in these important operational roles. Definitely an upside to the client services issue. We haven't asked our runners to offer opinion on grading though. Typically there are enough opinions to go round! Rick, FSM -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: Tuesday, 14 October 2008 04:11 To: Telecine Internet Group Subject: [Tig] client services, where 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== it used to be, in LA, that facilities had the services of a chef, trained in France, to serve meals for the clients and the employees (thinking of POP). those days are long gone, unless someone advises otherwise. previous to the french-trained-chef, we had the client services person (girl) who would bake chocolate-chip cookies and serve them at about 3-4 pm to the clients in every suite. is this a nostalgic, thing of the past? I tend to think so. there was another function of the client services girl, which was that she (or he) provide, at times, a completely neutral opinion (hopefully) of the grading, when she (or he) was asked to, when the clients (and colorist) wanted to be guided by "neutral" opinion. I would suggest that such a 'neutral observer' be an important part of any post facility, and that perhaps this person wear a placard as designating neutral, so that the clients and colorist would be reassured as to the origin of said influence. if we are devoid now, because of budget cuts, of this observer, we might find our work not as well-received, and instead procuring another avenue, for a 'neutral observer.' -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From jeff.booth at ntlworld.com Tue Oct 14 11:38:02 2008 From: jeff.booth at ntlworld.com (Jeff Booth) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:38:02 +0000 Subject: [Tig] ISR and HDCam Message-ID: <20081014103802.CEDV2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Hi, Does anyone have details of the Sony ISR protocol? Has anyone had a 'play' with the web based interface on SR? What does it offer? Cheers Jeff ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam From ken at flight4.org Tue Oct 14 03:20:03 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:20:03 +0800 Subject: [Tig] Panasonic 50" plasma In-Reply-To: <5B046B60-86CD-4C20-9684-0547A553A18F@colorist.org> References: <5B046B60-86CD-4C20-9684-0547A553A18F@colorist.org> Message-ID: <007901c92da3$60f0e910$ea1ea8c0@flight4> I have to say I am confused! Easily done, I know... But I just connected up a 50 inch Vieja via HDMI to a Bluray and normal DVD. Threw in a James Bond DVD to test, and found that the images look like they are slightly speeded up. This happened in both play out machines. Is this an issue with Progressive on domestic style monitors, or what?????? Is this normal, or can I patent the technique? ken robinson Hong Kong From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Tue Oct 14 09:30:34 2008 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (Peter Swinson) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:30:34 -0400 Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format Message-ID: <200810140430_MC3-2-141B-315D@compuserve.com> Joe & Others, Thanks for the info and comments. Ah the memories of Rank Cintel, The BBC and others struggling to show HD (ish) images at IBC, way back when it was in Brighton in the UK. BTW, I enjoyed the Nitrate thread, wonderful stuff and a great smell! cheers Peter From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Tue Oct 14 23:29:16 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:29:16 +0100 Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format In-Reply-To: <200810140430_MC3-2-141B-315D@compuserve.com> Message-ID: I've just found a "sales brochure/catelogue" from Cintel ...from long before I was there ... Featuring the famous grade 1 monitor's, mkiii7's and 8's programmeable colour correctors by paper tape .tarif etc etc ... Along with my Alf Ramsey and Bobby Moore autograph's ... No they aren't famous colorist's !!! Graham Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Peter Swinson Sent: 14 October 2008 09:31 To: tig Subject: [Tig] The origins of 16:9 TV format 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== Joe & Others, Thanks for the info and comments. Ah the memories of Rank Cintel, The BBC and others struggling to show HD (ish) images at IBC, way back when it was in Brighton in the UK. BTW, I enjoyed the Nitrate thread, wonderful stuff and a great smell! cheers Peter _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From ted at tedlangdell.com Tue Oct 14 17:04:08 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:04:08 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <200810140430_MC3-2-141B-315D@compuserve.com> References: <200810140430_MC3-2-141B-315D@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <72DCC363-3043-4360-913F-995B5AED2893@tedlangdell.com> On Oct 14, 2008, at 1:30 AM, Peter Swinson wrote: > BTW, I enjoyed the Nitrate thread, wonderful stuff and a great smell! > > cheers > > Peter Glad that was enjoyable. To all who replied on and off list, a big "Thank You!" Several potential sources of help turned up in the LA area. Jeff (for whom I posted) is going to check them out, and I hope to be able to report a happy conclusion. If that comes to pass, I'll ask whether a short clip from the 700' can be posted for all to see. Again, thanks. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Call this number during AMIA, Nov. 10-16 Say "Hello" at AMIA 2008 flashscan8.us From terry at finishedit.com Tue Oct 14 16:17:04 2008 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:17:04 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 100, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86E0491E-2508-4B73-B462-04622F7FDA83@finishedit.com> I passed some of my early years in front of my grandparents' c1951 Zenith Console 17" round CRT (full round, no viewer mask), watching the likes of Andy Devine, Mr Wizard, Winky Dink.... Philadelphia stations at the time were I believe WPTZ ch3, WFIL ch6, WCAU ch10. Still have some bits of this old set in my basement today, but (fortunately or unfortunately)not the CRT- it had a dual chassis with power supply separate from the signal chassis, and a great big strip tuner into which you could insert UHF channel strips one at a time- yes there were a few UHF transmitters around in those days- you just replaced an unused VHF strip with a UHF one. The 12 strips were individually tunable, one type for Low band VHF, one for High VHF, and one or two different types for UHF. I can't vouch for the effectiveness of the UHF strips, never tried one. Seems to me it would have been a tall order to build generic RF amps and mixers broadband enough to cover all the way from Ch2 through 60 (Don't think they went up to 83 then) by simply rotating in and out the tuned circuits on phenolic boards mounted to a drum attached to the selector knob. I believe Zenith was the only manufacturer that tried this approach in tuners, and they stuck with it for a few years- My own family's set c.1953 had one too, a 21" 4:3 model. Still remember the chassis #21K20Z. Rob, I'll bet Nam Jun Paik in about 1979 had more than one "art" piece in a vertical format. -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 "What this country needs are more unemployed politicians." -- Edward Langley On Oct 11, 2008, at 12:56 PM, tig-request at colorist.org wrote: > > > fascinating. I think there were TVs that showed a full circular CRT > to the viewer. > there must have been at some time a video artwork that presented in > portrait mode, > where one would either lie down to see it or turn the monitor 90 > degrees. > > -- > Rob Lingelbach > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > From rob at colorist.org Wed Oct 15 00:06:40 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:06:40 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 100, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <86E0491E-2508-4B73-B462-04622F7FDA83@finishedit.com> References: <86E0491E-2508-4B73-B462-04622F7FDA83@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <81067AE1-B659-482D-B0E3-0D45E76DF4E2@colorist.org> On Oct 14, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Terry Lockhart wrote: > > I believe Zenith was the only manufacturer that tried this approach > in tuners, and they stuck with it for a few years- My own family's > set c.1953 had one too, a 21" 4:3 model. Still remember the chassis > #21K20Z. i'm amazed you remember the chassis number. that's like remembering your first girlfriend's (or boyfriend's) phone number. We had a 1950s vintage Admiral, and there was something about the channel tuner, that very satisfying clunk feel to your fingers and the sound. Antenna in the attic, rotatable by hand while yelling back and forth to someone in the basement. > Rob, I'll bet Nam Jun Paik in about 1979 had more than one "art" > piece in a vertical format. I was sure it had been done, just never saw it- except maybe on the Apple Lisa (didn't it have a page format screen). If you take a color monitor and turn it on its side, does the change in orientation cause color anomalies, due to the lines of the earth's magnetic field? we know there are differences between monitors built for the southern hemisphere and those for the northern. (incidentally, what is done in manufacturing for monitors meant to be used near the equator?) -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From bob at bluescreen.com Wed Oct 15 01:43:08 2008 From: bob at bluescreen.com (Bob Kertesz) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:43:08 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 100, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <81067AE1-B659-482D-B0E3-0D45E76DF4E2@colorist.org> References: <86E0491E-2508-4B73-B462-04622F7FDA83@finishedit.com> <81067AE1-B659-482D-B0E3-0D45E76DF4E2@colorist.org> Message-ID: >If you take a color monitor and turn it on its side, does the change >in orientation cause color anomalies, due to the lines of the earth's >magnetic field? Not only will the purity/colors go crazy, but if you leave a CRT monitor on its side for any length of time while powered, it is more than likely that its purity will never be flat and even again without a MAJOR factory recalibration (and maybe not then). Not a good idea. I know of one production company who had to pay the rental company for a 20" Sony HD set when the DP flipped the camera on its side and insisted on turning the monitor on its side as well so he could see what he was shooting. It was left that way for about 12 hours. Even Sony could not make the purity match original specs again. --Bob Bob Kertesz BlueScreen LLC Hollywood, California bob at bluescreen.com The Ultimate in ULTIMATTE® compositing. For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com From johnw9 at bigpond.com.au Wed Oct 15 11:50:48 2008 From: johnw9 at bigpond.com.au (John Walsh) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:50:48 +1000 Subject: [Tig] Tig Digest, Vol 100, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <86E0491E-2508-4B73-B462-04622F7FDA83@finishedit.com> Message-ID: <20081015095110.JRPW12257.nskntotgx03p.mx.bigpond.com@yourpuucf6utbi> Hi Terry, The other sets in the early 60's that had that type of tuner, with plug in biscuits where the rotary drum American tuner in the Admiral TV receiver and a later Philips rotary drum tuner/receiver, both with similar biscuits. Using a grid dip oscillator, sweep generator and CRO, I had to move all of the VHF frequencies out of normal band, to stop interference, this was the basis of Sydney Australia's first monochrome video wall of traffic control system monitors. Spacing the coils on the biscuits and adding ceramic capacitors to the tuner produced the required extended out of normal band performance, as you have explained. The later Philips Biscuits used etch printed coils on a thin PCB, of course being monochrome increased the forgiveness ....such memories ! John Walsh SMPTE Australia Board & Gencom Technology Pty Ltd. From rob at colorist.org Wed Oct 15 11:36:19 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:36:19 +0300 Subject: [Tig] data grading, who is in front? In-Reply-To: <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF06545050194FC0A@exg01.davsys.com> References: <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF06545050194FC0A@exg01.davsys.com> Message-ID: <1107AFC1-FC8E-42EE-8582-3EF0F578FC19@colorist.org> There is a Facilities table on the TIG wiki for any manufacturer, facility manager, or colorist to add information on grading systems used, colorists, etc. this is a chance for manufacturers to provide statistics, and for facilities to highlight capabilities, and possibly answer the questions posed by this thread of a week or two ago, regarding which systems have market presence. the link on the wiki is: http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable and anyone editing will need to be registered in the wiki system, which is easy (if you're registered but forgot your password, just create a new user and if possible inform me what your old username was, so I can delete it from the database; not even the administrator can view passwords). Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Wed Oct 15 13:03:31 2008 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts - Post Production) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:03:31 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Panasonic 50" plasma In-Reply-To: <007901c92da3$60f0e910$ea1ea8c0@flight4> References: <5B046B60-86CD-4C20-9684-0547A553A18F@colorist.org> <007901c92da3$60f0e910$ea1ea8c0@flight4> Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BBFD@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Do you have Intelligent Frame Creation turned on in the plasma? It creates new motion-estimated frames between real frames, so effectively giving a video type motion to film. Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 http://www.bbcresources.com BBC Resources Limited Registered Number 3593793 England Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ken Robinson Sent: 14 October 2008 03:20 To: 'Telecine Internet Group' Subject: [Tig] Panasonic 50" plasma 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== I have to say I am confused! Easily done, I know... But I just connected up a 50 inch Vieja via HDMI to a Bluray and normal DVD. Threw in a James Bond DVD to test, and found that the images look like they are slightly speeded up. This happened in both play out machines. Is this an issue with Progressive on domestic style monitors, or what?????? Is this normal, or can I patent the technique? ken robinson Hong Kong _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From ken at flight4.org Wed Oct 15 18:18:36 2008 From: ken at flight4.org (Ken Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 01:18:36 +0800 Subject: [Tig] Spirit Phantom Transfer Engine In-Reply-To: <1107AFC1-FC8E-42EE-8582-3EF0F578FC19@colorist.org> References: <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF06545050194FC0A@exg01.davsys.com> <1107AFC1-FC8E-42EE-8582-3EF0F578FC19@colorist.org> Message-ID: <001901c92eea$10f42330$ea1ea8c0@flight4> Do all the software versions accept EDL's and then do auto conforms? Thanks! ken robinson Hong Kong From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Thu Oct 16 10:57:16 2008 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (Peter Swinson) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:57:16 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Color CRTS Magnetic fields and portrait modes Message-ID: <200810160557_MC3-2-1365-CEA@compuserve.com> Rob wrote in two threads >If you take a color monitor and turn it on its side, does the change in orientation cause color anomalies, due to the lines of the earth's magnetic field? we know there are differences between monitors >built for the southern hemisphere and those for the northern. (incidentally, what is done in manufacturing for monitors meant to be >used near the equator?) Placing CRT color monitors on their side certainly has the effect, as described elsewhere of screwing up the purity/convergence. I was always told that manufactures "YAMMED" the sets for Northern or Southern hemisphere, or was it for far from/close to the equator, all to overcome different Earth magnetic field directions effecting the purity. Never really sure I believed it. However just turning a CRT color TV around will change the purity until the de-guassing coil removes the changed induced fields. >there must have been at some time a video artwork that presented in portrait mode,where one would either lie down to see it or turn the monitor 90 degrees. Indeed HD tvs of a sort were used very commonly in London in the 1960s & 1970s. Many London teaching hospitals were interlinked with b/w HDish signals and the monitors were in portrait mode, after all the human body looks more recognizable vertically than horizontally; that should throw back a few comments from the BRRE aficionados who have greater falling over recognition! Interestingly the hospital links were co-ax laid in the old tramline rails that still exist below many of London's streets. I guess modern technology has now made such systems redundant. cheers Peter From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 16 23:21:54 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:21:54 +0300 Subject: [Tig] need new material for tig main page Message-ID: <7A6E5D20-61FA-4278-B0DC-DBB926417404@colorist.org> need new material - .mov or preferably .swf - for the tig main wiki page. -- Rob Lingelbach Tig admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Fri Oct 17 12:20:53 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:20:53 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <72DCC363-3043-4360-913F-995B5AED2893@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: Apparently the new Spirit is only 4degrees c hotter than the old Spirit ... In the gate ...pretty good going considering the more than 100% increase in power at the lamp. I would guess that Thomson are only legally protecting themsleves by saying don't do nitrate. In fact all film transport manufacturers would be wise to do the same. There are strict guideline/laws in UK to even follow if you are doing nitrate transfer ... And I'll bet anyone's building insurance wont cover it unless specified ..which then means you have to follow the rules .. Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell Sent: 14 October 2008 17:04 To: tig; Peter Swinson Subject: Re: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== On Oct 14, 2008, at 1:30 AM, Peter Swinson wrote: > BTW, I enjoyed the Nitrate thread, wonderful stuff and a great smell! > > cheers > > Peter Glad that was enjoyable. To all who replied on and off list, a big "Thank You!" Several potential sources of help turned up in the LA area. Jeff (for whom I posted) is going to check them out, and I hope to be able to report a happy conclusion. If that comes to pass, I'll ask whether a short clip from the 700' can be posted for all to see. Again, thanks. Ted Ted Langdell flashscan8.us 209 East 12th Street Marysville, CA 95901 Main: (530) 741-1212 Cell: (530) 301-2931 Call this number during AMIA, Nov. 10-16 Say "Hello" at AMIA 2008 flashscan8.us _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 17 14:33:10 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:33:10 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D78C6E0-37E0-4F4D-A247-370440D06AF3@colorist.org> On Oct 17, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Graham Collett wrote: > In fact all > film transport manufacturers would be wise to do the same. > There are strict guideline/laws in UK to even follow if you are doing > nitrate transfer ... And I'll bet anyone's building insurance wont > cover it unless specified ..which then means you have to follow the > rules .. Archive facilities like the Library of Congress and the UCLA Film and Television Archive are well-versed in the handling and transfer of nitrate film. In many cases the dangers are exaggerated, though once it catches fire, you can't put it out. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach Tig admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From peter_swinson at compuserve.com Fri Oct 17 17:03:53 2008 From: peter_swinson at compuserve.com (Peter Swinson) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:03:53 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame Message-ID: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame I agree that the Spirit gate temperature is unlikely to ignite nitrate, although it is much higher than a CRT based scanner where the gate is at ambient temperature. However whenever I was asked about Nitrate on telecines, I always cautioned about the optical sound head lamps. These can get film quite warm if it is parked or if there is some sort of fault that causes them to be closer to the film than normal. So always turn off the optical sound heads when transferring Nitrate. I assume we are talking OCN material so there will be no com-opt track anyway. Another danger is static, make every effort to prevent any static build up. I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 17 17:25:15 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:25:15 +0300 Subject: [Tig] spirit filters question Message-ID: <108B3324-9CA8-48C6-9678-C0371769F194@colorist.org> The manual for the Thomson Spirit advises regular air filter maintenance. Common Wisdom, as passed on to me, states to "ignore the manual" regarding the filter under Rack 3, and instead leave it uninstalled, to increase airflow to the machine. I'd like to get confirmation of that if possible. thanks in advance -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 17 17:29:35 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:29:35 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> References: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <5D88E5DD-6369-4CA5-B1B0-43FBE8838D00@colorist.org> On Oct 17, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Peter Swinson wrote: > I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. I've watched the training film on handling nitrate film, produced I believe by Kodak, and it was necessary, in order to burn nitrate film of a certain condition, to hold a flame to it. However, I don't remember if flammability increases with deterioration of the film over time (gas and bubbling vinegar state). -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From ted at tedlangdell.com Fri Oct 17 17:39:31 2008 From: ted at tedlangdell.com (Ted Langdell) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:39:31 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> References: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <122D760B-CD02-4D4D-8153-8F36F742035A@tedlangdell.com> On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Peter Swinson wrote: > Another danger is static, make every effort to prevent any static > build up. > I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. Suggestions or ways that's been successfully done in the past? Ted Langdell tedlangdell.com and flashscan8.us From jdhouston at earthlink.net Fri Oct 17 19:24:19 2008 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:24:19 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <122D760B-CD02-4D4D-8153-8F36F742035A@tedlangdell.com> References: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> <122D760B-CD02-4D4D-8153-8F36F742035A@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:39 AM, Ted Langdell wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Peter Swinson wrote: > >> Another danger is static, make every effort to prevent any static >> build up. >> I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. > > > Suggestions or ways that's been successfully done in the past? > High humidity, around 50-60%RH. Plus an anti-static floor and grounding any metal racks or equipment in the room. After any handling of the film including running it on the machine or on a rewind bench, it should be left on a rack for 2-3 hours before trying to use it again. Before taking it from the can, it should be left in the humid room for several hours as well to acclimatize. Jim From jdhouston at earthlink.net Fri Oct 17 19:44:37 2008 From: jdhouston at earthlink.net (Jim Houston) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:44:37 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <5D88E5DD-6369-4CA5-B1B0-43FBE8838D00@colorist.org> References: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> <5D88E5DD-6369-4CA5-B1B0-43FBE8838D00@colorist.org> Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: >> I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. > > I've watched the training film on handling nitrate film, produced > I believe by Kodak, and it was necessary, in order to burn nitrate > film of a certain condition, to hold a flame to it. However, I > don't remember if flammability increases with deterioration of > the film over time (gas and bubbling vinegar state). Yes, it does. The base of nitrate film is made by dissolving cotton in nitric acid and adding camphor as a plasticizer. (nitrocellulose) Use glycerol instead of cellulose and you get nitroglycerin. This is the similar stuff known as 'gun-cotton' because it was used as a propellent in early firearms, and as the base for plastic explosives. (The military stopped using it for that purpose as it was too dangerous!) Deterioration over time causes increased flammability. The bubbling is nitric acid released to the surface. Friction, heat, and sparks can all cause spontaneous combustion of a degraded film. Jim From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Fri Oct 17 20:24:43 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:24:43 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <122D760B-CD02-4D4D-8153-8F36F742035A@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: Well nitrate has been done on spirits or any other machine ... Shrunken that much, ...try a metaspeed equiped machine .. Ursa, Mkiii with shrink sprocket, Millenium Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Ted Langdell Sent: 17 October 2008 17:40 To: Telecine Internet Group Subject: Re: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Peter Swinson wrote: > Another danger is static, make every effort to prevent any static > build up. > I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. Suggestions or ways that's been successfully done in the past? Ted Langdell tedlangdell.com and flashscan8.us _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Fri Oct 17 20:25:40 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:25:40 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Humidity ..good idea .. Try a re-wash Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Jim Houston Sent: 17 October 2008 19:24 To: Ted Langdell Cc: Telecine Internet Group Subject: Re: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:39 AM, Ted Langdell wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Peter Swinson wrote: > >> Another danger is static, make every effort to prevent any static >> build up. >> I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. > > > Suggestions or ways that's been successfully done in the past? > High humidity, around 50-60%RH. Plus an anti-static floor and grounding any metal racks or equipment in the room. After any handling of the film including running it on the machine or on a rewind bench, it should be left on a rack for 2-3 hours before trying to use it again. Before taking it from the can, it should be left in the humid room for several hours as well to acclimatize. Jim _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From terry at finishedit.com Fri Oct 17 20:17:35 2008 From: terry at finishedit.com (Terry Lockhart) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:17:35 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Looking for Alpha Image router controller Message-ID: <8B80DF4A-DBD8-44DA-AEDA-C4EF0408392A@finishedit.com> Hi Tiggers- I don't know at this point who else to ask about this- you guys are it. Any companies with a connection to the old Alpha Image 32x32 SDI router (DYN32) have fallen off the radar. If any of you that this message reaches knows how I can contact others with experience with these routers, I would appreciate it, e.g.: Kenny Telfer, John Carter, Peter Smith, Rich Satilli, or Gary Pass formerly of Alpha Image, Dynatech, Metawave, PSP-Digital, etc. Maybe Snell&Wilcox still has somebody. My 200SC system controller has crapped out. At least I think that's where the problem lies. Tallies back to control panels don't make any sense, and absolutely no preset latching or switching occurs when control panel buttons are pressed. Matrix is stuck in its current status, whatever that happens to be (Hard to tell without the tallies from the controller). I am working on getting a PC set up to talk directly to the matrix to see if I can get status and execute switches, but that is no simple matter for me anymore either. At least I have a copy of the ALPHAS.EXE program (DOS). To make matters worse, the documentation I have looks like it's for a different version of the controller cpu board, which bears little resemblance to the one I have. Who knew?? About all I have been able to do is check the supply rails, and they look ok to me aside from maybe being a bit under voltage. The QC label says 24/3/94 KMT (that would probably be Ken Telfer). It's a type 2170/2, #27091, with barcode label 00022056. My manual is rev2.0 Dec 1993. Judging from the numbers that should be correct, but the schematic part designations and test points do not seem to match the actual board. The complete lack of layout diagrams makes identification impossible. What I'm hoping is that somewhere somebody has a working board, or complete controller unit not in service. Barring that, some troubleshooting guidance would help a lot, as in this financial climate I'm not looking forward to replacing the whole router (much as I'd like to). Thanks for any help any of you can offer. -- Terry Lockhart Chief Engineer/IT manager Finish Editorial 162 Columbus Ave. Boston, Ma 02116-5222 direct/vm 617 850 6133 main 617 292 0082 or 850 6100 fax 617 292 0083 cel 617 775 3195 "What this country needs are more unemployed politicians." -- Edward Langley From dcorbitt77 at comcast.net Fri Oct 17 21:03:20 2008 From: dcorbitt77 at comcast.net (dcorbitt77 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:03:20 +0000 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame Message-ID: <101720082003.472.48F8EF87000F2E7D000001D82207022933C9C99B9B070D9D010C0B@comcast.net> Maybe a small point but still important. Make sure you open the can first so it can adjust to ambient humidity, then let it sit for a while before taking it out of the can.. Dave Corbitt Freelance Guy Summit, NJ 07901 > > Before taking it from the can, > it should be left in the humid room for several hours as well to > acclimatize. > > Jim From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Fri Oct 17 22:40:20 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:40:20 +0100 Subject: [Tig] spirit filters question In-Reply-To: <108B3324-9CA8-48C6-9678-C0371769F194@colorist.org> Message-ID: <635D38F951634132A552C1DB189E6E12@Sprocket> The filter under rack 3 was changed once (maybe more) for a larger hole spec ... In my experience there is either a "big hole" metal mesh type filter that works ok .. Or just take it out. ... Or buy a new 4k type without rack 3 ..... Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: 17 October 2008 17:25 To: Telecine Internet Group Subject: [Tig] spirit filters question 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk Biggi Klier supports the TIG http://reels.colorist.org ==== The manual for the Thomson Spirit advises regular air filter maintenance. Common Wisdom, as passed on to me, states to "ignore the manual" regarding the filter under Rack 3, and instead leave it uninstalled, to increase airflow to the machine. I'd like to get confirmation of that if possible. thanks in advance -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From jim at media-matters.net Sat Oct 18 14:33:41 2008 From: jim at media-matters.net (Jim Lindner) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:33:41 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Handling Nitrate - more then you may wanna know - - was Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <5D78C6E0-37E0-4F4D-A247-370440D06AF3@colorist.org> References: <5D78C6E0-37E0-4F4D-A247-370440D06AF3@colorist.org> Message-ID: I worked quite some time with a team of people designing the Library of Congress's new facility in Culpeper, Virginia - and if you are in the "neighborhood" it is a must see. The film processing area in the lab as well as specific other areas in the facility were built specifically for the needs of the storage, processing, and the projection of nitrate. The nitrate vaults in particular are an entire purpose built building with very special systems in place. There are in fact many different building code requirements as well as environmental and human safety laws that relate to Nitrate film and its handling. The codes may not mention the word "Nitrate Film" but relate to the classification of the type of material - so building codes and fire codes may not mention nitrate specifically - but the category that the material belongs in has specific rules - for example the code may specify explosion proof switches for areas where materials that can ignite due to a spark are mandatory as are special housings for lamps. Some of the codes and laws are local and relate to building code and some relate to fire protection codes which largely are national. Codes likely are different in different nations. Some of the codes relate to building construction - for example fireproof walls and the length of time that they will be intact during a fire. Materials handled in certain areas may require walls that are fire rated for 8 hours instead of 4 and so forth. There are also, for example, requirements relating to the entire area where the film will be handled - not just in the telecine area itself (and most likely the codes don't even know about telecine's at all - the code is much more general). There are, however, special requirements for projection booths and projectors and for auditoriums that have projection booths that could project nitrate with special fire doors and gates required to isolate the projection booth if necessary as well as very specific rules that relate to venting of the booths and the venting from the projector. You get the idea.It is a bit of a mess of different regulation that sometimes is hard to really determine and even the architects frequently have difficulty figuring out precisely what is required. There are also requirements in terms of how much nitrate film you can have in the area at any one time - and you can not - for example - just leave it out overnight, it has to be put back in the vault or in an explosion proof vault or locker. For example putting one or two reels overnight in an explosion proof locker may be ok - but it is not ok for a skid of the stuff not to be in a proper vault overnight even if the material is being sorted or just is waiting for handling. The concept to understand here is that the codes and regulation will almost certainly vary based on quantity and what you are doing - so the code may vary in terms of what protection you need based on how much of it you have in what areas and for how long. This is general OSHA and environmental code - and this applies to other things that may be in your lab as well - for example having a 2 ounce bottle of Perchloric film cleaner (the code that applies to this specific chemical is usually the one for dry cleaning fluid) is very different then the requirements for having a 50 gallon drum of the stuff. The differences relate not only to the facility construction and storage, but relate to environmental handling - for example you likely will not need special ventilation for the 2 ounces but you certainly will for the drum. If you use large quantities you will likely need a sophisticated scrubber to recover the material, you can not just dump it into the regular outside air and we do not even want to talk about just discharging used fluid into the sewer or water supply. There is a very large body of information in this area and it will vary by locality and nation. If you have ANY chemicals around your facility it is required that the staff be trained on the proper use and you need to have the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) available, posted, read, and understood by people who come into contact with the materials or have cause to use or handle them. There must also be the proper safety equipment as well - respirators, goggles, gloves, and so forth - AND the people must be trained to use them properly. This Kodak Web page takes you to many resources on this general subject http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/faqs/faq5020.shtml and the MSDS on Nitrate in particular can be found by doing a search on Cellulose Nitrate from the Kodak MSDS web site here http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2879/4648&CID=go&idhbx=msds&pq-locale=en_US&_requestid=5500 As mentioned in general - the environment and the RH will have an effect on the flash point, but in general the condition of the media will be the most important thing. There is a classification system for Nitrate. Nitrate in advanced states of deterioration (Stage 5 when it has brown acrid powder) will be more unstable then film in good shape. There are also issues relating to Stage 5 nitrate dust or particles which might ignite easier when near a spark then a well humidified piece of film in Stage 1 or 2 in relatively good condition. Stage 5 film that is at the proper RH is better - but Stage 5 is Stage 5 and it MUST be handled in a spark proof environment no matter what the RH is and you need to treat it that way. Nitrate vaults are quite an interesting subject in and of themselves - again a trip to the facility will be interesting and explaining what was done would be far too long a post. How do you know what stage it is in before you open the can? Chances are you don't - so you have to be prepared for Stage 5 even if it turns out to be in good condition because in general - if you are a facility and take what ever comes in - you really do not know what you may get - and that is a real issue from a code point of view. There was a period of Nitrate paranoia unfortunately where a great deal of original nitrate that had been copied to safety film was destroyed. Archivists learned (much later) that deterioration issues with safety film sometimes are worse then the issues of Nitrate film that has been properly taken care of, and at any gathering of AV Archivists the subject of Nitrate loss not due to deterioration but due to unnecessary destruction in the process of making safety copies almost always comes up. Unfortunately a great deal of the safety film copies of the Nitrate original simply were not made as well as could have been, and as a result the remaining content is inferior - and the neg is no more. While nitrate was and is handled in many places around the world on a daily basis in a routine fashion - it is a serious mistake to be cavalier about it. While paranoia is not necessary (I HAVE received panic phone calls from people who act as if they are holding a bomb in their hands), a certain amount of respect is important and education is vital. The proper facility is mandatory. This is one of those areas where if you really do not know what you are doing - you can not just figure it out - you need to really read up and talk to people who do handle it and ideally work for a while under the supervision of an expert. From a "management" point of view - taking in a few rolls of nitrate into your regular telecine suite that has no special facility or construction is almost certainly not "legal" and if something happens could get really ugly. My advice - if you are working in a facility that specializes in this type of work and has spent the time and money to both build proper facilities for the handling of it (and if you are in a facility of that type you likely know it....) and training the people...... then fine. If not - and you have a small project, your best option would be to farm it out or point the customer in another direction. I strongly recommend that you do not just add some additional grounding and just go for it - the results could be catastrophic - but even if not - technically - I can almost guarantee that is it not covered in the certificate of occupancy for your building nor in your insurance policy - so you need to be prudent. Either way - if it is a small job your company certainly will not make any money on it - and it is far smarter to send it elsewhere. Jim Lindner Email: jim at media-matters.net Media Matters LLC. SAMMA Systems Inc. 450 West 31st Street 4th Floor New York, N.Y. 10001 eFax (646) 349-4475 Mobile: (917) 945-2662 Office: (212) 268-5528 www.media-matters.net Media Matters LLC. is a technical consultancy specializing in archival audio and video material. We provide advice and analysis, to media archives that apply the beneficial advances in technology to collection management. www.sammasystems.com SAMMA Systems provides tools and products that implement and optimize the advances in modern technology with established media preservation and access practices. On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > 1991 subscribers as of September 2008 > Sohonet http://sohonet.co.uk > Biggi Klier supports the TIG > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > On Oct 17, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Graham Collett wrote: > >> In fact all >> film transport manufacturers would be wise to do the same. >> There are strict guideline/laws in UK to even follow if you are doing >> nitrate transfer ... And I'll bet anyone's building insurance wont >> cover it unless specified ..which then means you have to follow the >> rules .. > > > Archive facilities like the Library of Congress and the UCLA Film and > Television Archive are well-versed in the handling and transfer of > nitrate film. In many cases the dangers are exaggerated, though once > it catches fire, you can't put it out. > > Rob > -- > Rob Lingelbach Tig admin.founder > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From jfmann at optimum.net Sat Oct 18 16:45:50 2008 From: jfmann at optimum.net (Jim Mann) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:45:50 -0400 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <122D760B-CD02-4D4D-8153-8F36F742035A@tedlangdell.com> References: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> <122D760B-CD02-4D4D-8153-8F36F742035A@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <000001c93138$98c13be0$ca43b3a0$@net> Peter Swinson wrote: > Another danger is static, make every effort to prevent any static > build up. > I guess just one stray static spark could cause a nitrate fire. Hi Peter; I really do not think just a static spark will do it...but it does sound like a job for "MythBusters" To quote from "Appendix M: Management of Cellulose Nitrate and Cellulose Ester Film” from the National Park Service Museum Handbook....The Document that I think contains all one needs to know if you come in occasional contact with Nitrate film. I quote: "What causes nitrate fires? At temperatures of 100°F (38°C) or above, quantities of deteriorated nitrate can self-combust, although un-deteriorated nitrate doesn’t burn until it reaches 266°F (130°C). Self-combustion is caused by the combination of high environmental temperature, low RH, lack of ventilation, flammable material, and a heat producing (exothermic) reaction due to deterioration byproduct gas buildup leading to accelerating deterioration and ever-higher temperatures. M:32 NPS Museum Handbook, Part I (1999) Other, more common causes of nitrate fires include: • sparks from: − smoking − equipment − faulty wiring • excessive heat from: − radiators and space heaters − skylights and windows − poorly vented attics End Quote Regards, Jim Jim Mann Colorist/daVinci Product Specialist [ POSTWORKS ] NEW YORK 100 Avenue of Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 T 212 894 4000 C 516-250-0909 F 212 941 0439 http://www.postworks.com http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/User:Jim_Mann Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. From rob at colorist.org Sat Oct 18 22:58:11 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:58:11 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <000001c93138$98c13be0$ca43b3a0$@net> References: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> <122D760B-CD02-4D4D-8153-8F36F742035A@tedlangdell.com> <000001c93138$98c13be0$ca43b3a0$@net> Message-ID: <6EEF721B-B1F3-4A6C-BF71-26FD01B87CF1@colorist.org> On Oct 18, 2008, at 6:45 PM, Jim Mann wrote: > Other, more common causes of nitrate fires include: > • sparks from: > − smoking as a paean to colorists of antiquity, I propose using an old Rank, a propped-up machine room, and a well-dressed control panel to produce the video we've always wanted to see: Colorist, 1970s-era wardrobe and vernacular, talking to camera with cigarette dangling and bobbing from mouth, explaining the process of telecine, while entering machine room. Nitrate loaded on Rank. Our camera behind, colorist swiveling head to camera while ash drops on film and Rank, explaining the intricate, delicate process of telecine. Colorist, satisfied with monologue, exiting machine room; CUT to colorist entering grading suite, sitting down at yellow, smoke-stained console. As the joysticks are engaged, with 70s colorist patter [camera: from front behind console and over-the shoulder, quick cuts] about the value of film, engages transport. A delicate waft of smoke enters the monitor, followed by a chuckle from the colorist. [camera trucks in to monitor, showing beginnings of flame] Last shot: sirens, multitude of people exiting rapidly from facility, some with alarm, others with obvious desire to return to Topanga hot tubs. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Sun Oct 19 00:08:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 02:08:42 +0300 Subject: [Tig] material APPEAL Message-ID: <74C9B3BF-BBD8-4D7F-99C1-FAC1F69871F4@colorist.org> NEED NEW MATERIAL- commercials, videos, whatever- for the TIG main WIKI page, to show in rotation. please send to me. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From cased at atlab.com.au Sun Oct 19 22:46:13 2008 From: cased at atlab.com.au (Dominic Case) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:46:13 +1100 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame Message-ID: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B5102826BDA@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> > However, I don't remember if flammability increases with deterioration of the film > over time (gas and bubbling vinegar state). As posted by others, yes it does get more flammable as it deteriorates. Nitrate in good condition does need a flame - it's a little harder than lighting a sheet of newspaper. Actually, acetate will catch fire nearly as easily. The difference comes when you try to put it out. Acetate is easily doused. Nitrate generates its own oxygen so cannot be extinguished at all. Not water, not CO2, not foam. Nothing except removing unburnt film from the conflagaration. Many many years ago I watched a large pile of nitrate reels (probably a couple of hundred) being torched. The local fire brigade was in attendance: for the exercise, they tried put it out. They needn't have bothered. BTW, bubbling vinegar would be deteriorating acetate film, not nitrate. _________________________________ Dominic Case Atlab Australia ________________________________ views expressed here may be mine alone ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk Mon Oct 20 08:10:01 2008 From: steve.roberts at bbc.co.uk (Steve Roberts - Post Production) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:10:01 +0100 Subject: [Tig] Shrunken 35mm nitrate to HD-Spirit loses frame In-Reply-To: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> References: <200810171204_MC3-2-1465-349B@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <244E9A3A7711D64DBF9C99CE1DFA9EB004B6BC06@bbcxue218.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Forgive me if you've heard me tell this one before... Years ago, we operated a nitrate facility at Television Centre, consisting of a MK3 in a double-walled room with a remote control room. During the demolition of our studios at Lime Grove in London, somebody remembered an article in Popular Mechanics or somesuch about a timecapsule being walled up in the building during construction. Some enterprising soul went to his collection of magazines in his attic and actually found the article, which gave the precise location. A crew from children's magazine show 'Blue Peter' were on hand when the wall was demolished and the capsule recovered, the contents of which included a roll of nitrate containing coverage of some royal event from the thirties. The film was brought to us and despite concerns about it being a bit greasy (!), they put it on the MK3 and played into the programme. The colourist stopped to set his levels but when he pressed play the film refused to move. Muggins here went into the machine room to discover the capstan spinning at high speed against the film in that delightful MK3 way, smoke pouring off it. I've never tripped a breaker and exited a room so fast... I'm also reminded of the time I was on a fire warden course and the instructor showed us a video of 2000ft of loosely wound nitrate being ignited in a concrete bunker and blowing it open! I thought it best not to tell him about the 3000ft of nitrate sat on the passenger seat of my car, just behind him through the window, in the baking hot sun... ;) Lastly, an oldie but a goodie... Nitrate film burning in a bucket of water. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=380 992 Steve Roberts | Senior Engineer | BBC Resources Room 3501 | BBC Television Centre | Wood Lane | London | W12 7RJ T: +44 (0)20 857 64556 | F: +44 (0)20 857 61639 http://www.bbcresources.com BBC Resources Limited Registered Number 3593793 England Registered Office: Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. From rob at colorist.org Mon Oct 20 18:30:03 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:30:03 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Colorist Channel Message-ID: <3B108841-E04A-4DA6-BBEC-3747A682424D@colorist.org> the TIG is evolving toward a Colorist Channel, in streaming reels and spots. recent advice, from a Colorist waaaay up north, western hemisphere, suggested that perhaps there could be such an animal, The Colorist Channel. We will need to get on this rapidly, as i can already see (perhaps already is one) an EFX channel, and as we all know, the disciplines are merging, albeit in a yet-to-be-seen coitus. Are there any on this group who would be connected at the higher levels of providence, in the inception of such a path toward educating the public in what a colorist does? the audience would be narrow, but, how can it be narrower than some of the other unnamed channels existing. well it might be a dream not yet ready for its time. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Mon Oct 20 19:32:40 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:32:40 +0300 Subject: [Tig] test for att.net subscribers please ignore Message-ID: <40989980-AD58-4B92-BA14-31C08CD7D19E@colorist.org> att.net subscribers are experiencing a block due to sbcglobal.net not resolving reverse DNS. After adjustments to the DNS for colorist.org for reverse DNS, this message may be delivered or not, ergo this test. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From a.paul at al.com.au Tue Oct 21 01:21:14 2008 From: a.paul at al.com.au (Adrian Paul) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:21:14 +1100 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? In-Reply-To: <008F7C76-4601-4F25-8097-4CEB35B8AD23@tedlangdell.com> References: <4860B649.6040206@filmlight.ltd.uk> <5D7D2453-063D-42F3-8B36-E0523321E339@colorist.org> <008F7C76-4601-4F25-8097-4CEB35B8AD23@tedlangdell.com> Message-ID: <48FD207A.3000407@al.com.au> Article: http://www.xerox.com/innovation/simple_color.shtml 'Xerox scientists are developing a new technology to make adjusting colors in a document as easy as simply describing the color. Users can type "make the sky a deeper blue" or give a voice command "make the background carnation pink" and the software does the work.' Animated "demo": http://www.xerox.com/innovation/simple_color_ani.html Paper: http://www.xerox.com/innovation/simple_color.pdf And just to clarify the link back to the original thread, the paper refers to the "ISCC-NBS" colour naming system. Animal Logic http://www.animallogic.com Please think of the environment before printing this email. This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. Please notify the sender immediately and delete this document if you have received it in error. We do not guarantee this email is error or virus free. From chris.noellert at mac.com Tue Oct 21 18:27:16 2008 From: chris.noellert at mac.com (Christopher Noellert) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:27:16 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Interesting devolpement... Message-ID: <58CC245C-13A5-4AD9-8ED9-D6B81A89DA34@mac.com> Autodesk is suing Assimilate over IP acquired in the 5D fire sale. There's a short write-up on FXGuide. Here's the link to the official filing... http://www.autodesk.com/us/assimilate/Autodesk_v_Assimilate-Complaint_date-stamped.pdf Best, Chris -- SEA LEVEL VENICE | Visual Effects Chris Noellert : VFX/Flame Artist 69 Market Street, Venice, CA 90291 p. 310.664.0900 c. 310.699.2151 www.sealevelvfx.com From roblingelbach at gmail.com Tue Oct 21 19:43:49 2008 From: roblingelbach at gmail.com (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:43:49 +0300 Subject: [Tig] Interesting devolpement... In-Reply-To: <58CC245C-13A5-4AD9-8ED9-D6B81A89DA34@mac.com> References: <58CC245C-13A5-4AD9-8ED9-D6B81A89DA34@mac.com> Message-ID: <3B478889-35AB-4BFD-AA59-596253DDED6C@colorist.org> > Autodesk is suing Assimilate over IP acquired in the 5D fire sale. > There's a short write-up on FXGuide. > > Here's the link to the official filing... > > http://www.autodesk.com/us/assimilate/Autodesk_v_Assimilate-Complaint_date-stamped.pdf it makes interesting reading. I imagine this could be quite contentious. There would be a couple of questions possibly relevant to the filing, regarding jurisdiction (Delaware); regarding the timing of the liquidation of 5D and the beginning of Assimilate, vs. the time of purchase of the Cyborg software. But I'm no lawyer (just come from a family where all the other males were). -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From rob at colorist.org Wed Oct 22 19:07:00 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:07:00 +0300 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? In-Reply-To: <48FD207A.3000407@al.com.au> References: <4860B649.6040206@filmlight.ltd.uk> <5D7D2453-063D-42F3-8B36-E0523321E339@colorist.org> <008F7C76-4601-4F25-8097-4CEB35B8AD23@tedlangdell.com> <48FD207A.3000407@al.com.au> Message-ID: <04BFDC79-2E21-4A3C-BFC2-90B61BC64ECE@colorist.org> On Oct 21, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Adrian Paul wrote: > Article: > http://www.xerox.com/innovation/simple_color.shtml > > 'Xerox scientists are developing a new technology to make adjusting > colors in a document as easy as simply describing the color. Users > can type "make the sky a deeper blue" or give a voice command "make > the background carnation pink" and the software does the work.' > extremely interesting. I would posit, however, that color terms, once you get beyond the simple primaries and secondaries, are so subjective as to defy machination. And that is what makes them fascinating, these color terms, because of their evocation in the mind of the observer and listener. For example, I was talking to a female the other day, (putting on my amateur scientist hat for the purposes of this discussion) and she described an ochre scarf she had bought. She described it as much lighter in color that what I have always thought of as ochre, and indeed when I saw it, I thought it more of a sandy brown. Ochre to me is closer to "burnt sienna" ... yet all these terms are so personal, and in that way can be subject to more psychological analysis than if they were definitive. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From rob at colorist.org Wed Oct 22 19:12:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:12:42 +0300 Subject: [Tig] need more facilities (manufacturers????) Message-ID: <734AC567-6865-46A3-84C2-2F0B4D84A120@colorist.org> anyone who would like to put their Facility, Colorists, and Credits on the TIG wiki, which is indexed about 100 times a day by the search engines, please go to http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 and click the Facility Table to edit the information. Manufacturers, this is your chance.. to show your presence in the Market. Like: there's only one DaVinci Resolve ? There are only two Apple Colors? no Baselights, no Lustres. forgive me for being sarcastic, but this is an obvious way in which you (manufacturers) can make use of the TIG, in a way that doesn't break any of the simple soft rules. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From cased at atlab.com.au Wed Oct 22 22:54:05 2008 From: cased at atlab.com.au (Dominic Case) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:54:05 +1100 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? Message-ID: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51028272BB@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> The discussion of colour names crops up here quite a lot - and I think that Rob is correct, that everyone has their own idiolect for colours - that is, each of us maps the colour gamut across to a slightly different set of colour terms in different ways: you say tomato, I say crimson. I can't see a practical application relying entirely on this word control. More likely the software would start off by popping up a palette: you say "make the greens yellower" and it shows a range of greens that you can select with a pointer. Maybe the first time you say "scarlet" it says "I'm sorry I don't recognise that term, please select a colour from the palette". Of course it could learn your particular user profile over time. Of course, combined with things like face recognition, the possibilities could become really interesting. The scope for people to totally screw up a halfway decent image is almost unlimited: the more "intuitive" you make a system, the less real control there really is. _________________________________ Dominic Case Atlab Australia ________________________________ views expressed here may be mine alone ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From geoffc at molinare.co.uk Thu Oct 23 08:29:39 2008 From: geoffc at molinare.co.uk (Geoff Cooper) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:29:39 +0100 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? Message-ID: <000301c934e1$1c5888e0$58140a0a@jeff> Rob I’ve just bought a new Dahon folding bike. The Ebay ad called it Cobalt Blue. I was so disappointed when I opened the big box! I was expecting Lapis Lazuli. It was Airforce Blue to my eyes!! Dahon call it Cobalt, not Cobalt Blue. The dealer added the word blue. Cobalt Oxide is the colour of my bike. A grey-blue It’s growing on me, it’s a very good ride too! Geoff Cooper Molinare London No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1740 - Release Date: 22/10/2008 19:24 From richard at filmlight.ltd.uk Thu Oct 23 09:06:35 2008 From: richard at filmlight.ltd.uk (Richard Kirk) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:06:35 +0100 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4900308B.2020501@filmlight.ltd.uk> > 'Xerox scientists are developing a new technology to make adjusting > colors in a document as easy as simply describing the color. Users can > type "make the sky a deeper blue" or give a voice command "make the > background carnation pink" and the software does the work.' > This is not new, of course. About 1990, I and others linked a page make-up system to take colour commands from speech, and I don't think we were the first even then. I tried this again in about 1997: some of us working at Canon had another bash at this with a hacked version of 'xv'. Most people associate speech interpretation with free dictation. In fact, speech processing can work really well on minimal training when it recognizes about 20 key words. So you could have instructions like 'pick red', 'darker', 'orange-er'. We did not think of 'pick sky', but that is easy - pick the dominant light region at the top. Why would we want to do this? It avoids having any visible controls which may interfere with your sense of colour. It avoids you having to take your eye off the screen. You can use it in a darkened room. One of these days, I will get to make the image processing gadget from 'Blade Runner'... Cheers. Richard Kirk -- FilmLight Ltd. Tel: +44 (0)20 7292 0400 or 0409 224 (direct) Artists House, Fax: +44 (0)20 7292 0401 14-15 Manette Street London W1D 4AP From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Thu Oct 23 14:48:16 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:48:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? In-Reply-To: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51028272BB@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> References: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51028272BB@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Oct 2008, Dominic Case wrote: > > I can't see a practical application relying entirely on this word control. > More likely the software would start off by popping up a palette: you say > "make the greens yellower" and it shows a range of greens that you can > select with a pointer. Maybe the first time you say "scarlet" it says "I'm > sorry I don't recognise that term, please select a colour from the palette". > Of course it could learn your particular user profile over time. This is a really good idea. Everyone must be tested and have their own personal "3D LUT" encoded on a USB stick which fits into the grading station. The grading station can handle multiple USB sticks at once so by using the computer and voice identification, people can begin to reasonably communicate. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 23 17:13:13 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:13:13 +0300 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? In-Reply-To: <000301c934e1$1c5888e0$58140a0a@jeff> References: <000301c934e1$1c5888e0$58140a0a@jeff> Message-ID: hm, Airforce Blue- is that like Royal Blue, or more like Sky Blue? Cobalt Oxide, great color name. I really want to do an index of these names sometime- but one couldn't associate them with particular colors, because the modifiers, or adjectives, in the names preclude objectivity. I'm still wondering about Ochre: is it more like Burnt Sienna, or like a light brown? and that gets me to another question (warning: this may get waaaay off topic): why is Tiger Woods called black (if you consider black=african american) when he's half-white? and Obama - he's not black either. To take this last issue to its logical conclusion, if race is a subject of the US Presidential campaign, why not submit DNA of each candidate, and trace the family trees? that's as absurd as labeling one or the other candidate white or black. Minorities don't exist any more, as such. On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:29 AM, Geoff Cooper wrote: > Rob > I’ve just bought a new Dahon folding bike. > The Ebay ad called it Cobalt Blue. > -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 23 17:48:51 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:48:51 +0300 Subject: [Tig] dreams in b+w or color? Message-ID: <1AC27F42-F959-4655-9435-FD6DDB25C5E9@colorist.org> the following story, of interest to those of us who grew up with b+w tv receivers, could shed full-spectrum light on how we dream. http://tinyurl.com/6qtlr8 -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From jpo at prestodigital.ca Thu Oct 23 18:06:26 2008 From: jpo at prestodigital.ca (Joe Owens) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:06:26 -0600 Subject: [Tig] dreams in b+w or color? In-Reply-To: <1AC27F42-F959-4655-9435-FD6DDB25C5E9@colorist.org> References: <1AC27F42-F959-4655-9435-FD6DDB25C5E9@colorist.org> Message-ID: <88305715-66FB-4C2D-A357-38FBCE3E6C26@prestodigital.ca> Occasionally I adjust the colour while dreaming... or try another look. Hey, how would this be "Sin City"...? hmmm... getting a bit "Twin Peaks"... Joe Owens Presto!Digital Colourgrade 302-9664 106 Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5H0N4 +1 780 421-9980 jpo at prestodigital.ca From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 23 19:20:29 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:20:29 +0300 Subject: [Tig] grading systems Message-ID: so we have on the facilities table the following: 3 Apple Color Sytems, and Avid Symphony. 1 DaVinci Resolve. 2 DaVinci DUis, one 888. 12 Nucoda Filmasters. 3 Asssimilate Scratch. 2 Baselights. If I were to judge the proliferation of systems, I'd give the absolute win to Nucoda, see http://tig.colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/FacilityTable please, prove me wrong or right. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 23 19:36:07 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:36:07 +0300 Subject: [Tig] NEED spots or video clips Message-ID: on the main tig page, we have 3 clips in rotation. add yours. send it to rob at colorist.org as a .swf (preferred) or .flv or .mov Rob -- Rob Lingelbach tig admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 23 19:50:28 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:50:28 +0300 Subject: [Tig] nucoda Message-ID: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> so if NuCoda is so prevalent, according to the data received by the TIG, what is it that makes it preferable? this is asked in complete objectivity. Rob -- Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From steve at veralith.com Thu Oct 23 20:31:16 2008 From: steve at veralith.com (Steve Hullfish) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:31:16 -0500 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> Message-ID: <51B02F7D-1159-4D23-8578-608C6ABE0B78@veralith.com> In this election year, we should all be aware that statistics and polls are not really an indication of the true environment or intent of an audience. The poll on the TIG doesn't state the actual number of systems in place, but states instead that more NuCoda users took the poll or responded to the request for information. Perhaps people with da Vinci's didn't bother to respond because they were too busy grading. So the real question would be "Why did so many of the Nucoda colorists respond to the poll when so few of the colorists on other systems bothered to?" The other big "winner" was "Color." Why did they respond? In Chicago, there are few (or no) places that are using Color as an exclusive tool for grading - apart from editing shops that also grade or home-based boutiques. There are a couple of Nucodas and the rest, I think are da Vinci's, but I haven't conducted a scientific poll on the matter myself. Steve Hullfish contributor: www.provideocoalition.com author: "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction" On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > > so if NuCoda is so prevalent, according to the data received by the > TIG, > what is it that makes it preferable? > > this is asked in complete objectivity. From NJK at cbsnews.com Thu Oct 23 20:26:11 2008 From: NJK at cbsnews.com (Kassner, Neal) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:26:11 -0400 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> Message-ID: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F266401@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> I think before you jump to the conclusion that Nucoda products are so prevalent these days you might consider the possibility that someone allied with Digital Vision has simply added a bunch of facilities using that product line to the wiki table, while other systems' proponents have yet to do so. After all, manufacturers were invited to toot their own horns -- maybe Digital Vision was just the first to step up. AFAIK, there are only a handful of Digital Vision/Nucoda systems currently working in the New York market, and I say this as an employee of a company that has recently purchased a Nucoda HD. Neal Kassner Colorist CBS News/NY > -----Original Message----- > From: tig-bounces at colorist.org > [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:50 PM > To: TIG Group > Subject: [Tig] nucoda > > 2014 subscribers as of October 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== > > > so if NuCoda is so prevalent, according to the data received > by the TIG, what is it that makes it preferable? > > this is asked in complete objectivity. > > Rob > -- > Rob Lingelbach TIG founder.admin > rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 > From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 23 20:37:30 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:37:30 +0300 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F266401@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F266401@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <07778DCF-D8D2-452A-B962-CAEF26199C61@colorist.org> Yes, Neal, exactly. that is what I supposed, and what I wanted to alert other manufacturers to. we've had the Facilities Table up for several months, and in the absence of contributions in the past, we will see now what will be. I for one will be content with a representative tabulation, which has not yet been achieved. On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:26 PM, Kassner, Neal wrote: > > I think before you jump to the conclusion that Nucoda products are so > prevalent these days you might consider the possibility that someone > allied with Digital Vision has simply added a bunch of facilities -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From rob at colorist.org Thu Oct 23 20:40:42 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:40:42 +0300 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <51B02F7D-1159-4D23-8578-608C6ABE0B78@veralith.com> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <51B02F7D-1159-4D23-8578-608C6ABE0B78@veralith.com> Message-ID: <12A04F9C-A14E-4C89-9065-BF995664DB52@colorist.org> On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:31 PM, Steve Hullfish wrote: > . Perhaps people with da Vinci's didn't bother to respond because > they were too busy grading. good point. yet I had heard, through BackChannel communications, that DaVinci would make its presence known on the Facilities Table (they were adamant) should such an avenue be open to them. I await the input. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From 5tu at theorphanage.com Thu Oct 23 22:57:35 2008 From: 5tu at theorphanage.com (Stu Maschwitz) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:57:35 -0700 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> Message-ID: <1ECB10AF-5698-4D5E-8B00-BBEADD368F0A@theorphanage.com> On 081023, at 11:50 AM, Rob Lingelbach wrote: > so if NuCoda is so prevalent, according to the data received by the > TIG, > what is it that makes it preferable? Assuming that you're still interested in why some have chosen the Nucoda even if it isn't as dominant as things might seem, here are some impressions for you from a happy Nucoda owner. I like the price, yes, but more than that I like the architecture. I like that it speculatively renders in the background, meaning that any amount of correction layering is available for realtime playback after a render that is often near-realtime and easy to hide from the client's eyes. The color correction tools are complete and well thought-out. The order of operation is very well considered, making the controls intuitive and predictable. We evaluated Scratch, for example, and their order of operations is weird to me and hidden from the user. the result is that I always felt like I was fighting the controls. The Nucoda exposes the order of operations and allows you to edit it. The conrols felt intuitive and natural to me. I like the software LUT options and bundled cinespace. I like the integration with the control panel. We evaluated Lustre, but found that the control panel, lovely as it is, feels like an afterthought. It also killed me that Lustre needlessly separates things into log and "linear" (really video) modes. Far better to offer all relevant controls regardless of color space. When we were demoing the Nucoda, It was on a day when a friend had given me the trailer of his indie feature as a Quicktime on a thumbdrive. I plugged the thumb drive into the Nucoda and imported the quicktime into a new project. The system speculatively cut- detected the clip and created a local DPX proxy, and I was grading shots within seconds. Downsides: No variable feather for spline masks. The tracking is painful to use, especially if you've ever seen Lustre or Resolve's shape tracking. Unique upsides: the integration with our facility's specific needs as a VFX house and DI hub for distributed VFX work is unmatched. -Stu -- stu maschwitz www.theorphanage.com www.prolost.com From geoffc at molinare.co.uk Fri Oct 24 09:17:16 2008 From: geoffc at molinare.co.uk (Geoff Cooper) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:17:16 +0100 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c935b0$ed2ceb30$58140a0a@jeff> Airforce Blue is a “proper colour” see wiki’s colour chart: HYPERLINK "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue They’re all there, including Cobalt Blue! Sky Blue is a bit bland and vague. The sky is an infinite range of blues, thank goodness! Since you brought it up. Rob…… Do you think Tiger would understand the colour my elderly mother refers to (innocently) as Ni**er Brown? That word, that dares not speak its name, is popular again amongst our Afro-Caribbean community. Will that colour description resurface? Discuss…. Geoff Cooper Molinare London _____ From: Rob Lingelbach [mailto:rob at colorist.org] Sent: 23 October 2008 17:13 To: Geoff Cooper Cc: tig at colorist.org Subject: Re: [Tig] color table: system gives name? hm, Airforce Blue- is that like Royal Blue, or more like Sky Blue? Cobalt Oxide, great color name. I really want to do an index of these names sometime- but one couldn't associate them with particular colors, because the modifiers, or adjectives, in the names preclude objectivity. I'm still wondering about Ochre: is it more like Burnt Sienna, or like a light brown? and that gets me to another question (warning: this may get waaaay off topic): why is Tiger Woods called black (if you consider black=african american) when he's half-white? and Obama - he's not black either. To take this last issue to its logical conclusion, if race is a subject of the US Presidential campaign, why not submit DNA of each candidate, and trace the family trees? that's as absurd as labeling one or the other candidate white or black. Minorities don't exist any more, as such. On Oct 23, 2008, at 10:29 AM, Geoff Cooper wrote: Rob I’ve just bought a new Dahon folding bike. The Ebay ad called it Cobalt Blue. -- Rob Lingelbach HYPERLINK "mailto:rob at colorist.org"rob at colorist.org HYPERLINK "http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html"http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1742 - Release Date: 23/10/2008 15:29 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1742 - Release Date: 23/10/2008 15:29 From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 24 11:20:44 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:20:44 +0300 Subject: [Tig] color table: system gives name? In-Reply-To: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51028272BB@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> References: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51028272BB@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> Message-ID: <0B5EA52E-413B-409E-B8B7-A9FDA40DA75F@colorist.org> On Oct 23, 2008, at 12:54 AM, Dominic Case wrote: > The scope for people to totally screw up a halfway decent image is > almost > unlimited: the more "intuitive" you make a system, the less real > control > there really is. user-friendliness can really backfire. when my celphone's SMS gets stuck in T9 mode and guesses what I'm thinking of typing it gets a bit ridiculous. Insults the intelligence, as Richard Feynman used to say. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From lucas at assimilateinc.com Fri Oct 24 13:42:55 2008 From: lucas at assimilateinc.com (Lucas Wilson) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 05:42:55 -0700 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <1ECB10AF-5698-4D5E-8B00-BBEADD368F0A@theorphanage.com> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <1ECB10AF-5698-4D5E-8B00-BBEADD368F0A@theorphanage.com> Message-ID: <001801c935d6$0b0a07d0$211e1770$@com> Hi Stu, Just fyi - the order of operations is explained in the Release Notes that is automatically written with every install, and it is also spelled out in the online documentation. If you don't like the order of operation, you can change it on either a per-clip or global basis. Best, Lucas Wilson ------------ ASSIMILATE, inc. LA, CA, USA -----Original Message----- From: Stu Maschwitz Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:58 PM ... We evaluated Scratch, for example, and their order of operations is weird to me and hidden from the user. the result is that I always felt like I was fighting the controls. ... From ramona at spectsoft.com Fri Oct 24 14:49:01 2008 From: ramona at spectsoft.com (Ramona Howard) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:49:01 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Open Stereoscopic demo and shoot In-Reply-To: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F266401@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E90F266401@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> Message-ID: <200810240649.01657.ramona@spectsoft.com> Please join us for a game of pool, a cold beer and a look at Rave SpectSoft and StereoScope Studios will be hosting a detailed look at Rave and the workflow. We hope that you will join us for a relaxing way to get a hands on demonstration of using Rave both on-set and in post. In conjunction with other manufactures we will be giving you the opportunity to shoot both 2D and 3D footage and get a look at how it easily travels thru the workflow. The footage will be immideatley viewable in both a right eye, left eye combination or as stereo on several devices. The facility will be open on the below dates/times for anyone wishing to stop in and shoot some test material and or just hang out and see the latest tools. If you require a private demo time, please contact Ramona at spectsoft.com StereoScope, LLC 727 N. Victory Blvd. Burbank, CA 91502 Monday October 27th Noon to 6pm Tuesday October 28th 10am to 6pm Wednesday October 29th 10am to 2pm We will be demonstrating the Job System and Conversion tools within Rave, along with Dual I/O (stereoscopic) capture and playback into a single system. Hardware configs will range from Iconix to Phantom Cheers, Ramona Disclaimer: Rave is the product of SpectSoft -- Ramona Howard CEO/Founder SpectSoft, Inc. 375 Johnson Ave Oakdale, CA 95361 Phone: 209.847.7812 extension 104 Fax: 209.847.7859 http://www.spectsoft.com From 5tu at theorphanage.com Fri Oct 24 16:36:14 2008 From: 5tu at theorphanage.com (Stu Maschwitz) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:36:14 -0700 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <001801c935d6$0b0a07d0$211e1770$@com> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <1ECB10AF-5698-4D5E-8B00-BBEADD368F0A@theorphanage.com> <001801c935d6$0b0a07d0$211e1770$@com> Message-ID: That's all true, but that's not the same thing as the order of operations being intuitively at first glance of the control layout, or in keeping with generally accepted standards, or to my highly- subjective liking. Sorry if I didn't make that distinction clear. Ultimately it was the *feel* of these systems that I was basing my decision on, and personally I don't like the feel of Scratch's color controls. I don't mind saying that in a public forum because a) it's just my opinion and who the hell am I, and b) I have told you this privately on numerous occasions, and even put some effort into explaining why I think it might be the case. I don't like the feel of driving a Mercedes either, but that's not the same thing as me saying they're not good cars. That's the case here as well, I think Scratch is a great product. It just didn't wind up being for me. -Stu -- stu maschwitz www.theorphanage.com www.prolost.com On 081024, at 5:42 AM, Lucas Wilson wrote: > Hi Stu, > > Just fyi - the order of operations is explained in the Release Notes > that is > automatically written with every install, and it is also spelled out > in the > online documentation. > > If you don't like the order of operation, you can change it on > either a > per-clip or global basis. > > Best, > > Lucas Wilson > ------------ > ASSIMILATE, inc. > LA, CA, USA From craig at optimus.com Fri Oct 24 17:52:40 2008 From: craig at optimus.com (Craig Leffel) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:52:40 -0500 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <51B02F7D-1159-4D23-8578-608C6ABE0B78@veralith.com> <490121EA.3050208@optimus.com> Message-ID: <4901FD58.5050002@optimus.com> Steve Hullfish wrote: > Mike Matusek's place may not be a "full service post house" but he's > running Nucoda at his DI place, correct? And I thought there was one > at i-cubed, though that might have disappeared when Mike started his > own place. > No. They are running a Baselight 4. They have a scanner as well. They are doing great.... and do great work. As far as I know, iCubed is closed down. I am unsure if that is official or not, but I know at one point the doors were locked. I don't know of any Nucoda Film Masters in town.... but I could be wrong. CL From lucas at assimilateinc.com Fri Oct 24 20:52:00 2008 From: lucas at assimilateinc.com (Lucas Wilson) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:52:00 -0700 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <1ECB10AF-5698-4D5E-8B00-BBEADD368F0A@theorphanage.com> <001801c935d6$0b0a07d0$211e1770$@com> Message-ID: <003b01c93611$fc18afb0$f44a0f10$@com> Hey Stu, I get that, and the fact that it didn't "feel" right to you is totally cool and understandable. I've shown SCRATCH to an awful lot of skilled colorists. Some of them love it instantly and think, "Why can't everything be like this!" And some of them can't wait to close the door after I leave so they can snicker and guffaw without being rude. :) I just wanted to be clear about how the product operates - which is not subjective. Best, Lucas ----- ASSIMILATE, inc. LA, CA, USA -----Original Message----- From: Stu Maschwitz Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:36 AM That's all true, but that's not the same thing as the order of operations being intuitively at first glance of the control layout, or in keeping with generally accepted standards, or to my highly-subjective liking. Sorry if I didn't make that distinction clear. Ultimately it was the *feel* of these systems that I was basing my decision on, and personally I don't like the feel of Scratch's color controls. I don't mind saying that in a public forum because a) it's just my opinion and who the hell am I, and b) I have told you this privately on numerous occasions, and even put some effort into explaining why I think it might be the case. I don't like the feel of driving a Mercedes either, but that's not the same thing as me saying they're not good cars. That's the case here as well, I think Scratch is a great product. It just didn't wind up being for me. -Stu From gerruby2 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 24 21:20:06 2008 From: gerruby2 at hotmail.com (Gerlof Kamerling) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:20:06 +0200 Subject: [Tig] Tamuz ?? Message-ID: Hi All, Has anybody got any experience with tamuz Imerial eagle monitors and cares to comment about it. Thanks for the effort in advance. Gerlof Kamerling Senior Colorist Bothalaan 2 1217 JP, Hilversum Tel: +31(0)35 6727 686 Fax: +31(0)35 6727 696 Mob: +31(0)6 10493475 www.avi-drome.nl From simonastbury at hotmail.com Sat Oct 25 11:43:15 2008 From: simonastbury at hotmail.com (simon astbury) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:43:15 +0000 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: <003b01c93611$fc18afb0$f44a0f10$@com> References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org> <1ECB10AF-5698-4D5E-8B00-BBEADD368F0A@theorphanage.com> <001801c935d6$0b0a07d0$211e1770$@com> <003b01c93611$fc18afb0$f44a0f10$@com> Message-ID: Talking of Nucoda, any truth in the rumour that they have filed for chapter 11 ? _________________________________________________________________ Catch up on all the latest celebrity gossip http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Sat Oct 25 19:08:45 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:08:45 +0100 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <60E4561E82A040E98CD19E6692D0EC5A@Sprocket> Are they an "inc." aswell ? .. I thought they were Swedish Graham Collett Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk Talking of Nucoda, any truth in the rumour that they have filed for chapter 11 ? _________________________________________________________________ Catch up on all the latest celebrity gossip http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From NJK at cbsnews.com Sat Oct 25 18:45:17 2008 From: NJK at cbsnews.com (Kassner, Neal) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:45:17 -0400 Subject: [Tig] nucoda References: <9D92A23B-E92E-4EB3-B248-79409AD2F0D9@colorist.org><1ECB10AF-5698-4D5E-8B00-BBEADD368F0A@theorphanage.com><001801c935d6$0b0a07d0$211e1770$@com> <003b01c93611$fc18afb0$f44a0f10$@com> Message-ID: <28375BA0FC85BC4084C942D659F636E9175C73A5@NYCCNDX02.cbsnewsenps.cbsnews.net> The story (so far) is outlined on Digital Vision's web site: http://www.digitalvision.se/news_past_events/InformationReorganisation.htm Regards, Neal Kassner Colorist CBS News/NY From rob at colorist.org Sat Oct 25 19:55:32 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:55:32 +0300 Subject: [Tig] DNS problem caused missed messages Message-ID: Due to stringent rules at domains hosted by ATT, including sbcglobal.net and many others, several subscribers may have missed receiving TIG messages over the last week or two. A lack of DNS reverse lookup redundancy has hopefully been fixed (after much work by your administrator) and the blacklisting has (again hopefully) is no longer in force. thanks to Shawn Sterling and Bruce Goodman for pointing out the lack of reception. -- Rob Lingelbach TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From rob at colorist.org Sat Oct 25 20:25:19 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:25:19 +0300 Subject: [Tig] improvements in reciprocity Message-ID: The latest film stocks seem not only to be finer-grained when shot properly but also much less subject to reciprocity failure, though I'm not sure I'm using that term correctly. The effect to which I'm referring is the effect, at different exposure levels, of non-tracking color balance. A real-world example is a lighting cue, or series of lighting cues in a scene, which can cause a marked balance shift. I used to dread lighting cues because I'd have to do at least two grades for each cue, and sometimes several, as quick dissolves or even cuts, to keep the color tracking. Today I finished a series of commercials shot on Vision 3 that had numerous lighting cues, and these improvements in the stocks for reciprocity have perhaps happened so gradually that it dawned (actually sunsetted) on me how nice it is not to have to work so hard to rebalance due to exposure differences. However, I do like a bit of grain, and these films are just too good to show any. Please correct me if there's a better term than reciprocity failure to use in describing this phenomenon. -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html Odi profanum vulgus et arceo --Horace From cased at atlab.com.au Sun Oct 26 21:43:50 2008 From: cased at atlab.com.au (Dominic Case) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 08:43:50 +1100 Subject: [Tig] improvements in reciprocity Message-ID: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B5102872542@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> Well, Rob, there should be a better term to describe this phenomenon, because "reciprocity failure" is already used for something a whole lot different. Reciprocity is simply the ideal relationship between exposure, time, and intensity. If E = I x t, then if you double the exposure time and halve the intensity, you end up with the same resultant exposure (i.e. the film gets just as dark). Reciprocity failure is when you have very long exposure times (or very short), and the ratio doesn't apply perfectly. In other words, 20 seconds exposure time is rather less than a thousand times as much as 0.02 sec (1/50th), so you need more than the thousand times as much intensity (10 stops). I think of it as the emulsion actually "forgetting" the first bit of exposure before the last bit arrives, amking the whole exposure less effective. The problem you describe is more to do with non-linear tracking. Exposure time is constant, so there's no issue with reciprocity. The problem is more that a dark grey, exposed for a couple of stops more, doesn't become the same light grey: the balance changes - so when you try to correct it back, you end up in a different place. It's good that the newer stocks have more linear tracking. _________________________________ Dominic Case Atlab Australia ________________________________ views expressed here may be mine alone ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From 5tu at theorphanage.com Mon Oct 27 01:12:43 2008 From: 5tu at theorphanage.com (Stu Maschwitz) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:12:43 -0700 Subject: [Tig] nucoda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E548489-7B6A-4221-BEF7-757C30C1160A@theorphanage.com> You get what you pay for. -Stu -- stu maschwitz www.theorphanage.com www.prolost.com On 081026, at 5:37 PM, Craig Dingwall wrote: > Out of interest, can anyone comment on rendering times of the Nucoda > to that of Final Cut Color? From cased at atlab.com.au Tue Oct 28 00:10:19 2008 From: cased at atlab.com.au (Dominic Case) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:10:19 +1100 Subject: [Tig] improvements in reciprocity Message-ID: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51028728A0@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> >Is it good that the newer stocks have more linear tracking (and finer grain) ? >Is this not what the "film look" is all about? I'm far from convinced that the "film look" is entirely about deviations from accurate rendition* of images. If it is, then it's about the tonal non-linearity at either end of the scale (in other words, the "graceful" compression of shadows and highlights which allows such a wide brightness range to be reproduced on screen) rather than any particular cross-colour tracking errors which don't actually add anything to the reproducibility of the image. *"rendition" used to seem to be the right word after "rendering" got hijacked by the VFX brigade. Somehow it feels a little too military now, but hell! When I say a word it means what I want it to mean. _________________________________ Dominic Case Atlab Australia ________________________________ views expressed here may be mine alone ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From steve.simon at snellwilcox.com Tue Oct 28 09:45:29 2008 From: steve.simon at snellwilcox.com (Steve Simon) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:45:29 +0000 Subject: [Tig] improvements in reciprocity In-Reply-To: <7DA1B69B041ED511A59300508BF33B51028728A0@atlabserver1.ahl.com.au> Message-ID: <4c874c996e5fcafe6847c1ee6bb3de5b@snellwilcox.com> This paper may be old news, and you may disagree with its conclusions, but its interesting. The Film Look: It's Not Just Jerky Motion... A.Roberts There have been many attempts made to generate television pictures that have "The Film Look" while being generated electronically. Most have concentrated on mimicking the temporal appearance of film, while others have concentrated on contrast handling. Some have done both, and more. The issues of sharpness and depth of field are rarely tackled. This document investigates all of these major aspects of the film look and analyses the properties of film and electronic image generation to find out exactly how they are different and why, and how that difference can be minimised. The "BBC setup" conditions now adopted in some television cameras exploit this work, notably in PSC camcorders used for HDTV image capture. Although aimed primarily at HDTV cameras and their use in attempting to mimic and thereby encourage their replacement of film usage, the principles explored here could apply equally to all forms of video cameras provided that their control ranges are sufficiently flexible. http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp053.shtml This email and any attachments is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any use, disclosure, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If received in error, please delete this email and any attachments and confirm this to the sender. From rickpags at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 16:15:27 2008 From: rickpags at yahoo.com (wbpags) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing Message-ID: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I have some footage shot on a dvcam that had a camera problem at some points while shooting. Seems the red channel decided not to work which of course made the image nice and green. I'm looking for a fix. I'm working on a Baselight and have spent quite a bit of time trying to make a decent image out of this but not much seems to work. I've gone into Smoke and managed to get a "treatment" of sorts which I'm going to reingest back to the Baselight and see if I can improve the image. If anyone has any suggestions besides reshooting which of course isn't an option, please let me know. Upside is....I wasn't the dp. Thanks, Rick From jeff.olm at gmail.com Tue Oct 28 17:54:02 2008 From: jeff.olm at gmail.com (Jeff Olm) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:54:02 -0700 Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43298eae0810281054y2585e51anef7f61148464f423@mail.gmail.com> Rick, You may be able to use The Foundry's Furnace- Channel Repair plug-in on Smoke. It's OFX so they may I have a version that runs on Baselight. The Nucoda OFX version on this site did not list it as plug-in a option. http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/pkg_plugins.aspx?ui=B9D69803-AA9A-4772-B784-38A280234576 F_ChannelRepair Occasionally damage can occur in only one or two colour channels in an image. For example, chemical damage may only have permeated the top layer of the film. F_ChannelRepair can be used to repair the damaged channel(s) by using information from the other colour channels. Shown here, on the left, is the damage in the blue channel with the repair on the right. LA Office Phone: +1 310 399 4555 Fax: +1 310 450 4516 The Foundry, 618 Hampton Drive, Venice, Los Angeles, CA 90291, USA. http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/contact.aspx Disclaimer- I don't work for them I just use their stuff. Good luck, Jeff Olm Dreamworks Stereo Colorist LA, CA From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Oct 28 18:05:31 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:05:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2008, wbpags wrote: > > I have some footage shot on a dvcam that had a camera problem at > some points while shooting. Seems the red channel decided not to > work which of course made the image nice and green. I'm looking for > a fix. I'm working on a Baselight and have spent quite a bit of time This would be a good time to explore the wonders of black/white. Set the red channel to a constant value (I recommend 0.2126 of max range if this is sRGB or Rec.709, or 0.299 if it is Rec.601 video) and then convert to grayscale. Then adjust contrast to suit. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Tue Oct 28 18:49:10 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:49:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: References: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2008, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > > This would be a good time to explore the wonders of black/white. Set the red > channel to a constant value (I recommend 0.2126 of max range if this is sRGB > or Rec.709, or 0.299 if it is Rec.601 video) and then convert to grayscale. > Then adjust contrast to suit. Special purpose software could estimate a red channel based on the individual pixel values which achieve a median black/white intensity level. For example, if you had an image of an 18% gray card, then it should be possible to compute a red channel which provides a fairly nutural color balance even if colors are not accurate. Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From pagefrakes at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 19:30:44 2008 From: pagefrakes at yahoo.com (Page Frakes) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90262.3715.qm@web38205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You probably already did this as your "treatment" but if you can take the red channel from a piece of normal footage from that camera and subtract it from the green channel you may be able to quantify that difference and use that treatment to the green channel in the red channel's place as a base for a salvage grade. Page --- On Tue, 10/28/08, wbpags wrote: > From: wbpags > Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing > To: tig at colorist.org > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 9:15 AM > 2014 subscribers as of October 2008 > Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG > www.flandersscientific.com > http://reels.colorist.org > ==== > > > > I have some footage shot on a dvcam that had a camera > problem at some points while shooting. Seems the red channel > decided not to work which of course made the image nice and > green. I'm looking for a fix. I'm working on a > Baselight and have spent quite a bit of time trying to make > a decent image out of this but not much seems to work. > I've gone into Smoke and managed to get a > "treatment" of sorts which I'm going to > reingest back to the Baselight and see if I can improve the > image. If anyone has any suggestions besides reshooting > which of course isn't an option, please let me know. > Upside is....I wasn't the dp. > > Thanks, > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > http://reels.colorist.org > http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rickpags at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 21:23:12 2008 From: rickpags at yahoo.com (wbpags) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing In-Reply-To: <090AABB6E4E8BD4D9E38C93EF06545050199724C@exg01.davsys.com> Message-ID: <164444.1154.qm@web55003.mail.re4.yahoo.com> This whole shoot runs around 55min. The camera works fine for the first 8min. or so then the red channel craps out. It normalizes at about 50min. in and looks fine thru to the end of the tape. The company that shot it tried to recreate the problem but couldn't. Neither could the camera company. Ghosts in the machine? It was a piece on a community civic leader who just turned 95 so maybe his dear departed brethren had come back for an early halloween haunt. They're baaaack..... Gary Adams wrote: Just curious. Is the damage over long periods of time like seconds to minutes, or intermittent over frames? Regards, Gary Adams daVinci Systems -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of wbpags Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:15 PM To: tig at colorist.org Subject: [Tig] Red channel missing 2014 subscribers as of October 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== I have some footage shot on a dvcam that had a camera problem at some points while shooting. Seems the red channel decided not to work which of course made the image nice and green. I'm looking for a fix. I'm working on a Baselight and have spent quite a bit of time trying to make a decent image out of this but not much seems to work. I've gone into Smoke and managed to get a "treatment" of sorts which I'm going to reingest back to the Baselight and see if I can improve the image. If anyone has any suggestions besides reshooting which of course isn't an option, please let me know. Upside is....I wasn't the dp. Thanks, Rick _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us Wed Oct 29 14:33:25 2008 From: bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us (Bob Friesenhahn) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:33:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tig] GraphicsMagick 1.3 pending Message-ID: For the past seven months, my wife has allowed me to work full time (i.e. 12 hours per day, 7 days per week) on GraphicsMagick. Much of this time has been spent updating/re-writing the core of GraphicsMagick to be massively multi-threaded via the OpenMP programming interface. You can read about the effort at "http://www.graphicsmagick.org/OpenMP.html". I would appreciate it if technically-oriented users of Linux and Apple's OS-X (or AIX, or Solaris) on this list would give the latest GraphicsMagick snapshot a try. Note that an OpenMP-capable compiler is required. Other than going faster on multi-core hardware, there is not much change to the "DI" aspects of GraphicsMagick except that the DPX reader is now sequentially multi-threaded (reads data sequentially but decodes multiple scanlines at once), which seems to really help with the read performance. The colorspace transforms are multi-threaded as are other key algorithms like image resize. Thanks, Bob ====================================== Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ From rob at colorist.org Wed Oct 29 21:59:03 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:59:03 +0100 Subject: [Tig] GraphicsMagick 1.3 pending In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <357776EF-2C15-43B1-BF30-31F1E368CD2A@colorist.org> I was asked sincerely by a TIG subscriber if Bob's posts violate the TIG rules on marketing. Explanation: Bob donates his time and effort in making an open source package called GraphicsMagick. On such foundations is the internet built, and there are no complications. On Oct 29, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > > For the past seven months, my wife has allowed me to work full time > (i.e. 12 hours per day, 7 days per week) on GraphicsMagick. Much of > this time has been spent updating/re-writing the core of > GraphicsMagick to be massively multi-threaded via the OpenMP > programming interface. You can read about the effort at "http://www.graphicsmagick.org/OpenMP.html > ". -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From sleg at loc.gov Fri Oct 31 13:37:53 2008 From: sleg at loc.gov (Stephen C Leggett) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:37:53 -0400 Subject: [Tig] LC NAVCC Job Opening: Digital Film Preservation Specialist In-Reply-To: References: <482597.29433.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <490AD1F10200007300051EEB@ntgwgate.loc.gov> The following vacancy announcement opened today, Friday, October 31, 2008, in the Film Laboratory, Preservation Services Section, MBRS: Digital Film Preservation Specialist, GS-12 Announcement #080329 Closing Date: December 02, 2008 You can find the announcement at the following address: http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=77103435&aid=30727631-31108&WT.mc_n=MKT000125 (copy and paste to Explorer address bar) or on the LC Staff page at http://www.loc.gov/hr/employment/jobposts.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 31 18:46:53 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:46:53 +0100 Subject: [Tig] blue vs. green PTRs Message-ID: what difference if any exists between blue and green PTRs, as provided by Thomson? I had read somewhere forgotten now, that there is an embedded helical pattern to the PTRs such that their position in the four possibles is determined, and now I would like to know if this is keyed to the color-coding. thanks in advance. -- Rob Lingelbach Colorist TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk Fri Oct 31 22:45:01 2008 From: grahamcollett at sprockets-telecine.co.uk (Graham Collett) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:45:01 -0000 Subject: [Tig] blue vs. green PTRs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <833341BD63F04390A53FA1F52EA06B31@Sprocket> The Thomson supplied ptr's are made by San Lab Systems ... There is no difference between the blue and green, orange or purple .. purely colour --- whose names have been giving a hexidecimal number that all colourists should learn and tabulate. :) The only different one are the black and red ones, the "low shore" types that have been sold for a little while and generally accepted by those trying them. Let me know if you would like further details. They all (San Lab only) have a microscopic helical groove in them. regards Graham Collett representing SLS Sprockets(telecine) Ltd www.sprockets-telecine.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: tig-bounces at colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at colorist.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lingelbach Sent: 31 October 2008 18:47 To: TIG Group Subject: [Tig] blue vs. green PTRs 2014 subscribers as of October 2008 Flanders Scientific Industries supports the TIG www.flandersscientific.com http://reels.colorist.org ==== what difference if any exists between blue and green PTRs, as provided by Thomson? I had read somewhere forgotten now, that there is an embedded helical pattern to the PTRs such that their position in the four possibles is determined, and now I would like to know if this is keyed to the color-coding. thanks in advance. -- Rob Lingelbach Colorist TIG admin.founder rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html _______________________________________________ http://reels.colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/wiki3 From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 31 22:48:31 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:48:31 +0100 Subject: [Tig] blue vs. green PTRs In-Reply-To: <833341BD63F04390A53FA1F52EA06B31@Sprocket> References: <833341BD63F04390A53FA1F52EA06B31@Sprocket> Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:45 PM, Graham Collett wrote: > The Thomson supplied ptr's are made by San Lab Systems ... There is no > difference between the blue and green, orange or purple .. purely > colour > --- whose names have been giving a hexidecimal number that all > colourists should learn and tabulate. :) > The only different one are the black and red ones, the "low shore" > types > that have been sold for a little while and generally accepted by those > trying them. Let me know if you would like further details. They all > (San Lab only) have a microscopic helical groove in them. there was some mention in the manual as to the direction of the helical groove being important, yet it was an older manual, so I doubt its veracity as applied to today's PTRs. thanks Graham. regards Rob -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html From rob at colorist.org Fri Oct 31 23:46:09 2008 From: rob at colorist.org (Rob Lingelbach) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 00:46:09 +0100 Subject: [Tig] blue vs. green PTRs In-Reply-To: References: <833341BD63F04390A53FA1F52EA06B31@Sprocket> Message-ID: >> ... There is no >> difference between the blue and green, orange or purple .. purely >> colour can i get them in vanilla maple, with a pleasing scent? -- Rob Lingelbach rob at colorist.org http://www.colorist.org/robhome.html