[Tig] what are we going to do (monitors)

simon astbury simonastbury at hotmail.com
Mon Mar 31 16:21:43 BST 2008


Forgive my ignorance but does that mean that the Sony BVM L-230 is not really a grade 1 monitor ??
 
Simon Astbury> From: steve at oxygendct.com> To: tig at colorist.org> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:29:08 +0100> Subject: Re: [Tig] what are we going to do (monitors)> > 1824 subscribers as of March 2008> MTI Film supports the TIG> http://colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGNABFS08> ====> > > I haven't been through all the long email trail of this latest LCD debate but as regards colour> rendition the EBU REC709 sets out standards from chromaticity while the little known EBU TECH 3320> paper sets out standards for Grade 1, Grade 2 and Grade 3 LCDs. Utilising these two 'standards'> would ensure that users could at least determine comparative performance of respective manufacturers> LCD displays. Penta in Germany appear to lead the way by ensuring that their LCDs are manufactured> to REC709 standards and meet EBU TECH 3320 Grade 2 performance - there are no Grade 1 LCDs available> to date and almost all just meet Grade 3 level. > > Open disclosure on our part; whilst we are the UK distributor for Penta LCDs in the UK we also sell> and manufacture other LCD displays. > > Hope the above adds to the debate!.> > Kind regards> > Steve Hathaway> Director, Business Development > Oxygen DCT Limited> P: +44 (0) 8707 462 062> F: +44 (0) 8707 462 063> M: +44 (0) 789 989 0241> E: steve at oxygendct.com> W: www.oxygendct.com> W: www.oxygendbss.com> W: www.anydefinition.tv> W: www.oxychips.com> > - World leaders in broadcast LCDs> - World's largest range of routing systems > - World's largest range of video interfaces and converters> - World leading HDTV up, down and down conversion products > > Check out the New Evolution Pro LCDs launched this January. > > > > -----Original Message-----> From: tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org [mailto:tig-bounces at tig.colorist.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Perez> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:35 PM> To: tig at colorist.org> Subject: Re: [Tig] what are we going to do (monitors)> > > 1824 subscribers as of March 2008> MTI Film supports the TIG http://colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGNABFS08> ====> > > > Bob,> I agree with you ... I don't like LCD monitors ... I don't think they > are acceptable as grading monitors. And not only because of their poor black levels. There are> issues with vision angles, color temperature, gamma ramping, ...> > I didn't mean we should be showing DPs and directors the printouts of very > precise measurements and saying, "Who are you going to believe, ..." > > We all hear and say "The blacks look too milky" ... and they probably are. > We know they are !!! ... A colorimeter or a spectrophotometer will only > confirm that .... and then tell us much more if a complete CIE XYZ or CIE > L*u*v* profile is generated and compared to the video standards profiles.> > What I want to see is these video gear vendors showing us the precise > measurements when showing their products, and try to convince us this way that their monitors are> indeed acceptable grading monitors, instead > of simply trying to trick our eyes turning on and off lights in the demo > room.> > The perception issue lies behind a color science issue ... and there are tools available out there> ... and vendors have access to them !!!> > It is a frigging nightmare ... and I agree with Mike Most when he says he'd prefer to se a better> LCD HD monitor before a new 4K one not usable for grading. Daniel Perez DI - PRODURAMA Venezuela> > > > > > From: bob at bluescreen.com> To: tig at colorist.org> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 > > 08:55:14 -0700> Subject: Re: [Tig] what are we going to do (monitors)> > 1824 subscribers as of> March 2008> MTI Film supports the TIG> http://colorist.org/wiki3/index.php/TIGNABFS08> ====> > >> >Why handle this issue as a perception issue?> > Because as far as I'm concerned, in a situation> where work for hire is being> done for money, that's exactly what it is.> > It doesn't matter how> precisely you measure anything if the producer,> director, or DP sitting behind you says "The blacks> look too milky" and> there's nothing you can do about it.> > Showing them the printouts of very> precise measurements and saying, in effect,> "Who are you going to believe, these measurements or> your lying eyes?" will> only make things worse.> > I've been battling this on set (where it's MUCH> tougher to control ambient> conditions than in a suite) for months now, and in the end I've had to> say> "Look, I know this is not what you are used to, but this is the way everything> is headed> because CRTs have been declared dead by Sony, and there's no going> back. The picture you're looking> at is only valid if your head is directly> centered on the monitor, and even then the blacks will> not look as deep as> you're used to seeing." > > It's just a frigging nightmare sometimes.> > --Bob>> > Bob Kertesz> BlueScreen LLC> Hollywood, California> bob at bluescreen.com> > The Ultimate in> ULTIMATTER compositing. > For details, visit http://www.bluescreen.com> >> _______________________________________________> No personal abuse; absolutely no advertising or> marketing on the main TIG mailinglist. Emergency> tig contact address is rob (at) calarts.edu> Tig> mailing list> Tig at tig.colorist.org> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig> _______________________________________________> No personal abuse; absolutely no advertising or marketing on the main TIG mailinglist. Emergency> tig contact address is rob (at) calarts.edu Tig mailing list Tig at tig.colorist.org> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig> > > > _______________________________________________> No personal abuse; absolutely no advertising or marketing on the main TIG mailinglist. Emergency> tig contact address is rob (at) calarts.edu> Tig mailing list> Tig at tig.colorist.org> http://tig.colorist.org/mailman/listinfo/tig
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