[tig] QuickTime and Telecine Productivity ?
Sat Jan 3 22:08:15 GMT 2004
>Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:27:03 -0800
>To: tig at tig.colorist.org
>From: "David L. Tosh" <dlt at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [tig] QuickTime and Telecine Productivity ?
Hi David. !
My apologies that you objected to the content of my post. It was
meant in the spirit of information _gathering_, not promotion. We
actually have nothing to sell at this point. :-) Without some
feedback from the telecine community, we may never have anything of
any use to you.
> >The new technology, called 'PictureReady', essentially allows
>>capture of video direct to disk, which is nothing very novel.
>>However the major step forward is the fact that the file being
>>written by PictureReady is a QuickTime Movie. ...
>This is hardly new technology. Aacom has been creating QuickTime
>media on their WSD-HD line for about 4 years.
with respect, if you had quoted the entire text, you would note the
end of the paragraph continues:
"... this movie can be opened in an editing system WHILST IT IS BEING RECORDED"
This is the step forward for *QuickTime*. The ability to begin using
QuickTime recorded material before the transfer completes, for
example to perform post syncing, or non-real time recompression to
other formats (eg for MPEG2 dailies).
>>I guess the important issue here is that in a single pass, you can
>>be transferring picture, and begin post-syncing operations,
>>transfers, re-compression to other formats, all in real time,
>>without waiting for the telecine to finish...
>There are more important issues in telecine than access to the
Great !. This is the type of information I was really looking for !!!
> Telecine is all about metadata.
Agreed. MetaData has formed an important part of some of our other
products, and we totally appreciate the importance of this in modern
Please elaborate on what sort of metadata you consider important.
>Telecine is where modern
>postproduction adds value to simple media by creating the
>relationships with original media and all the information that is
>valuable to all the rest of the process. If your telecine session
>just puts picture on a hard disk without a comprehensive system to
>capture keykode, scene and take production data and the sync
>relationship to sound, you don't have anything to sell.
I understand. We have consulted with companies such as Aaton to
determine the appropriate route for keycode etc through the video
subsystem. Currently it would appear that 3-line VITC is the favoured
approach, for compatibility with existing systems like InDAW for post
syncing. Our proposal is to maintain that existing approach, but also
to consider alternatives which embed rich metadata into the media
files in more explicit ways. This of course relies on mechanisms to
acquire the metadata into the recording engine, and also mechanisms
to deliver this metadata down the line later. Currently 3-line VITC
seems the main technique, although it poses certain issues, and
could easily be replaced assuming other parts of the workflow can
We would really like to discuss techniques for modern open metadata
flow, if anyone has strong ideas on this.
>Does your product record high definition 1080PsF24 with SMPTE ancillary data?
It can certainly record 1080 24p QuickTime movies, with a Timecode
track. There are significant opportunities to store additional
metadata in the QuickTime movies, using standardised, published
mechanisms, although as I mentioned above, it depends a little on how
the additional data is fed into the recorder. What information
should the 'SMPTE ancillary data' include ?
>How do you handle time of day production timecode that is
PictureReady is primarily focused on picture, although it can record sound.
We have made other products in the past, such as our InstantLok
recorder, which was designed _specifically_ to capture location sound
with broken timecode, automatically performing reverse jam-sync to
the start of clips. Also, in 1995 we released a product (no longer
available) which did the same thing using a high-speed DAT mechanism
to load production sound with broken timecode at 2.2x real time
speed. A very impressive technology, It was rather before its time,
and ironically, by the time it caught on, the mechanism we used had
been discontinued by Seagate who made it.
Loading sound is not the focus of my research, and in fact our view
of telecine sound workflow is clearly anticipating disk-based
location sound becoming the norm, where broken timecode is handled at
the recording stage with creation of discrete files (or the
equivalent of this in telecine, for non disk-recorded audio). I am
guessing that disk-based production sound recording will become the
majority in the fairly near future.
>Can you capture two or more timecode "tracks"?
This is certainly possible. QuickTime movies can house an unlimited
number of timecode tracks. However, as I mentioned before, the issue
are how to get the data into the system. Its certainly possible to
read (and store) multiple different sources of regular VITC or LTC,
but we don't currently have a way to explicitly deconstruct 3-line
VITC into data, and hence simply recording it as picture is the
current model. Also depends on whether the end-system can deal with
multiple quicktime timecode tracks.
>Is production audio recorded to the disk in advance of picture so
>post-syncing can be done in place
This would be down to the specific workflow. You could do it either way.
> or do you think post sync is simply
>playback of picture from disk in another suite?
PictureReady would typically support post sync in a workflow where
production sound is pre-loaded before (or during) the telecine
transfer on an InDAW, and post syncing takes place as soon as picture
is available (in this case, some picture becomes available
immediately). As I understand it, aaton code on the film is
required for real-time sound syncing during telecine, and this is not
common in many scenarios.
My current vision of this would be for PictureReady to feed a
QuickTime movie (being recorded) to VirtualVTR, which is being
controlled by an InDAW via 9-pin for post syncing. The 3-line VITC in
the picture would be fed to the InDAW to transport the KeyCode. This
setup has been discussed with an engineer at Aaton, who felt it
should be viable.
Incidentally, the sound track of PictureReady *is* an SD2 file, which
could also be 'worked on' during record, if that fits the workflow,
although in the above situation it would typically be a mute
telecine, with audio post-sync.
><dlt at earthlink.net>
Once, again my apologies for any misunderstanding of the motives for
my post. As I say, I am on a fact-finding mission, not information
distribution. The information presented in this mail was
specifically in response to your direct questions. I am far more
interested in learning about what people need to develop new
workflows, than I am on promoting a currently non-existent product.
If this is inappropriate, please unsubscribe me from this list, and
we will find another forum for our questions.
mark at gallery.co.uk
Tel: +44 208 340 5677
fax: +44 870 055 7790
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